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Topic: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE in original post (Read 1064 times) previous topic - next topic
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Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE in original post
Hello. I am very interested in a 2009 LD IB with 47,000 miles. She is perfect in every way but the age. I'm very concerned about the rig holding up to the amount of traveling I do. I average about 15,000 miles per year and travel long distances at a time. Advice please

UPDATE: I found a 2006 26.5 mid bath with rear lounge 43,000. miles. She has been stored under roof her whole life and comes with service/maintenance records starting from purchase. She is being sold by her 2nd owner. They have been very accommodating and transparent. I ordered an inspection, and it is being performed today. 

Bonuses include: she is located 6 hours away from me. She is my favorite color, and the interior upholstery is really pretty. Fingers crossed.                                                                                                                       


UPDATE:
The inspection has been completed and there are no issues other than the ones disclosed by the current owners. The inspector was impressed with the condition and said he would consider her if he was in the market. There are two issues I need to deal with, and I will post about those in the appropriate section. All in all, I'm very happy and excited to get her camping.

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #1
Welcome to the forum.
The E450 chassis is well-proven. It was designed primarily for heavy hauling, with U-Haul being the major buyer. You will see many E40s used for airport shuttles, a tough job for any vehicle.
We have one member with 195,000 on the original drivetrain; the engine, transmission, and axle have not been replaced or rebuilt. The rig has not been babied either; the owner full-timed in it for 15 years.

The coach is probably the simplest, best-built body among Class Cs. With proper maintenance and resealing, the coach should last at least 30 years. The two-part polyurethane paint is as good and long lasting as any RV paint.
There is minimal tech inside the coach; nothing major has changed in a couple of decades other than better TVs and radios.
If you want higher tech, it's up to you to install it. Many here have made serious investments in solar and lithium batteries.

Not sure what else you want to hear. You will not find any RV with much better reliability or durability.

Happy hunting
Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #2
We have a 2009 MB with 85,000 miles.  We’ve not had a single problem with any of the Ford’s mechanicals or the Lazy Daze house.  We get decent gas mileage while towing and we don’t burn any oil.  We couldn’t be more pleased to be a 2009 LD owner.   Hope this helps.

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #3
I agree with Larry and Ed & Margee.  I have been looking for a LD for years and never bought one.  Just never worked out for us.  However, I believe it is clearly the best value out there and I keep coming back to them after straying to other brands. 

Before buying it is important to know that they are all wood, I mean a lot of wood!  So like Larry said first you must make sure it has been maintained properly.   Sealing/resealing the roof (LD recommends complete reseal at 10 years) is necessary.  The rear end caps crack over time.  If left unrepaired water intrudes and damages the wood behind it.  Also the rear window (or any window) can leak if not resealed or kept sealed.  That can cause wood damage below it.  Once wood is damaged it is repairable but very difficult to fix.  

If you are in California a former employee, Vince, works for Leisure Coachworks in Fontana, CA.  They could inspect the exterior for you and offer advice. 

As far as the chassis at that age all fluids should be changed (brake, oil, transmission, power steering and rear axle).  New shocks, serpentine belt and steering stabilizer and other steering related suspension parts might need changing.  Tires should be less than 5 years old.  Refrigerators last about 12 years along with a/c. 

I would recommend getting an inspection of the LD to look at everything.

Ron S
Ron & Linda Sarzynski
Ada Michigan
31IB or 27MB  Desired

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #4
I knew I would find valuable information here. Thank you for the replies.

I just discovered this brand yesterday when I came across one listed on RV trader. After 3 minutes of learning about the company I was sold. This is exactly what I would design and build if I started an RV company. The quality of new RVs should be illegal. Such a shame that quantity has replaced quality in the RV industry.

Would I be a fool to purchase sight unseen but with an inspection? I can tell from the pictures that the paint is cracked. The rep said it looks like it was repainted and it's the second coat that is cracking. Is this anything other than a cosmetic issue? Thaks in advance again

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #5

Would I be a fool to purchase sight unseen but with an inspection?
I can tell from the pictures that the paint is cracked. The rep said it looks like it was repainted and it's the second coat that is cracking. Is this anything other than a cosmetic issue?

A high-quality repaint, done locally, has a $20,000+ cost, a price few are willing to pay.  The paint on LDs holds up well and shouldn't need repainting yet. I wonder if it was in a crash.
I would NOT buy this rig unless it was inspected by experienced eyes. Unseen problems can cost many thousands to repair, possibly more than what the rig is worth.

It is very easy to fall in love with a shiny rig and not really know what the actual condition of the rig is.
I call it "stars in my eyes" syndrome.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #6
I’ll share my advice. 

First, it would be unwise to purchase any RV without an inspection and a personal inspection.   There’s plenty of accounts of new owners discovering serious problems after purchasing the RV which had an inspection.

Secondly, it’s highly unusual for a 2009 LD to need repainting.  There’s several reasons for repainting to include repainting some kind of damage.  You said the paint is peeling which at the least suggests it was poorly done.

Finally, we wouldn’t trust a seller’s account of the RV’s condition unless we personally knew them.  Now, this is just our opinion but I hope it helps.


Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #7
Thank you all. I will take everyone's advice and pass on that particular rig.

 Instead, I am keeping a lookout for a 26.5 or 27 twin/king.  My previous rig (Winnebago) was 26 ft and I find that to be an ideal size for my needs. I bought it from an individual who had loved and maintained it. He spent a lot of time teaching me all about the rig and we keep in touch. I had zero problems with her, and I planned on keeping her indefinitely, but a huge tree fell during a storm and demolished her. Looking to have the same experience with a Lazy Daze...minus the natural disaster.

I'm looking forward to owning a Lazy Daze in the future. I will go make a wanted post in the classifieds.

Thank you all so much

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #8
If you have not already you might also look at Phoenix Cruisers.  They have a 2552 or a 2551 model which is popular.  You can get a newer 2552 for about same price as a LD.  It also has exceptional quality and a good owner forum.  I would stay away from any one that has 2 or 3 slides as they are over loaded. 

Ron S
Ron & Linda Sarzynski
Ada Michigan
31IB or 27MB  Desired

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase
Reply #9
If you have not already you might also look at Phoenix Cruisers.  They have a 2552 or a 2551 model which is popular.  You can get a newer 2552 for about same price as a LD.  It also has exceptional quality and a good owner forum.  I would stay away from any one that has 2 or 3 slides as they are over loaded. 

Ron S
Thanks for that. Those are really nice too. But deal breakers for me are no bunk over cab and they have a slide. I sometimes need to sleep a lot of people and slides are just something to maintain, that can still break and ruin my fun. For me, and how I use my RV, the LD floorplans are the most versatile and functional. Especially the 26.5 rear lounge with mid bath.

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #10
Hi Dazy, and welcome to the forum! It might be helpful if you let us know what years you are interested in so we can keep an eye out.
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #11
I have learned the year of the rig is less important than how it's been maintained. I have found a 2006 but I would consider any year actually. It would all depend on the rig itself.

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #12
I have learned the year of the rig is less important than how it's been maintained. I have found a 2006 but I would consider any year actually. It would all depend on the rig itself.

While it's important how a rig has been used and maintained, there are also changes that were made throughout the production years that you may want to consider. For example, in my case, I targeted a 2016 or newer due to the upgrade by Ford to a 6-speed transmission and an increase in GCWR.

 Changes by year
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #13
This is a good place to mention that the Lazy Daze Pocket Guide's Changes section covers all the important changes made, from 1966 onward.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #14
Thanks for the links. I actually found those guides and used them in my decision making. I have found this site to be a gold mine of useful information. A knowledgeable and helpful community makes a product even better. I have historically gotten better free advice from users of products than I have paid for by "experts".


Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #15
Two important years, IMO, to look out for with the E450s.

I would not buy a 2003 or older E450, they have the troublesome V10 with the bad habit of blowing out spark plugs unless you are willing to spend $2000+ to have spark plug inserts installed. This problem destroyed our 2003 LD's V10.

In 2008, Ford updated the E450 with bigger brakes and revised steering geometry, along with the newer "Big Truck" front grill and bumper.
The odd old-school driveshaft parking brake was updated to modern-style parking brakes in each rear wheel.
For those of you with pre-2008 LDs, you need to have the parking brake oil reservoir checked regularly for leaks; a failure at the wrong time could easily do $10,000 in damage by ripping it off the rear of the transmission. It has happened to past members of this group.
Few, if any, mechanics know about this or where to find the hidden filler plug. The reservoir uses transmission fluid. I use an irrigation syringe to fill it..
Parking brake oil fill | Flickr

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #16
I would like to offer a rebuttal to Larry's post about avoiding 2003 Lazy Dazes. Certainly, there have been instances of engines with the blown out sparkplugs but not every engine was cursed with the troublesome heads. Our 2003, which we took delivery of in June 2003, has the "improved" heads. And many owners have preemptively addressed the issue, often due to Larry's admonitions.

Bottom line is buyer beware and do your homework. If I was advising someone it would be to avoid a unit that has been stressed by towing a vehicle behind it. But that is just me.

Steve K

Steve K

2003 Mid-bath

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #17
Our 2003, which we took delivery of in June 2003, has the "improved" heads.

Our 2003 also has the improved heads which fixed the blown out spark plug issue.   Many others do not.  It's easy for a mechanic to remove the rear passenger side spark plug and confirm which version a rig has using a borescope.    The original design has 4 threads to secure the spark plugs while the improved design has 8.

With an aging fleet, and production halted, it's getting harder and harder for people who appreciate these rigs to find one.  The more you know, the easier it is to make an informed buying decision. 

Rich
2003 MB

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #18
I would like to offer a rebuttal to Larry's post about avoiding 2003 Lazy Dazes. Certainly, there have been instances of engines with the blown out sparkplugs but not every engine was cursed with the troublesome heads. Our 2003, which we took delivery of in June 2003, has the "improved" heads. And many owners have preemptively addressed the issue, often due to Larry's admonitions.

As you may know, I have owned and worked on LDs for 30 years and have known many owners of 2003 and older E450s with the V10  that have suffered blown spark plugs. Close friends we were traveling with had a plug blow in the middle of the desert in Baker. They couldn't find a mechanic that could look at it for a couple of weeks so I drove home and returned with the parts and tools needed to repair it on site.
They were lucky and suffered no additional damage, unlike our V10 engine's destruction.
A high-quality remanufactured engine is about $14.000 installed.
If the Forum's search function worked better, you could find many reports of blown plugs from past postings, it's a real thing.

The early V10s had four threads securing the plugs. The torque used at the Factory was too low, and the combination of the two led to the loosening of the spark plugs.
In late 2003,  Ford switched to a new head with seven spark plug threads, and the installed torque was raised. This mostly ended the blown spark plugs. Our early 2003 V10 had the four-thread heads.

Unless a potential owner is willing to have a mechanic remove the dog house and pull a spark plug, there is no way to determine if it has the four or seven-thread heads.
This is why I make the recommendation to avoid 2003 LDs and older ulesss they are willing to install spark plug inserts to eliminate the potential problem. I do not want anyone to suffer from this problem.
We lost our first engine to a blown plug, and the second engine, a Ford Certified replacement, lasted 32,000 miles before it came apart internally, Unfortunately, it was out of the warranty period.
Take the advice as you please.
 
Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #19
This brings up something that should be added to the "2003" description in the Lazy Daze Pocket Guide "Changes" section, under "All models":

* Partway through 2003, Ford changed from the 4-thread engine block, which is prone to blown spark plugs, to an 8-thread block
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #20
Hi Andy; Michelle, Steve or you would have to do this edit. I don't have any text editor except as part of our Elkarte ver 1.1.9 platform.  I believe you wrote the 'Pocket Guide while you were the Moderator, correct?    

   adding: "* Partway through 2003, Ford changed from the 4-thread engine block, which is prone to blown spark plugs, to an 8-thread block".         RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #21
I wonder what percentage of the pre 2003 engines suffered the spark plug disaster.  Personally, I put on just about 100K miles on my 2000 MB without ever touching the spark plugs and had no problem.  I never towed with it, maybe that had some impact or maybe I was just lucky.  On the other hand, the parking brake was my disaster, before Larry started educating us on that Ford fiasco.  That fix was not cheap, I'm glad they finally changed it.  If you've got one with it, pay attention to Larry's advice.
Former 2000 MB- Now Bullet Crossfire 1800RB trailer pulled by a Chevy 2500HD

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #22
I wonder what percentage of the pre 2003 engines suffered the spark plug disaster. 

Ford has never said (that I've seen), but I've seen estimates of 3% for the 1999-2001 engines and 1% for the 2001-mid-2003 design.  It's certainly common enough that repair kits are readily available and most mechanics are familiar with the repair.   It wasn't common enough that Ford ever did a mass recall like GM is now doing for the 6.2L v8 or Toyota is now doing for the 3.4L twin turbo V6.  

I've read that there were somewhere around 1 million of the Ford V10 6.8L engines produced.   Again, no idea if that's accurate.   

I also own a Ford 5.4 triton v8 engine that had a bad rep for timing and spark plug (stuck in this case) issues.   Mine has 224k miIes with none of those issues.    I own a 5.7 v8 toyota engine that has a very strong reputation for reliability, until you start talking about coolant leaks in the valley plate.   Point is, every engine from every generation has its issues.   It's not that I want to sign up for any of them, but you can't totally avoid it.  

Given the choice, I think anyone would prefer the updated design over the original.   In the real world, you don't often get the choice of the coach you want, in the year you prefer, with the maintenance history you have confidence in, at the price you like.    Buyers of used vehicles (often with a budget) have to pick the risks they are willing to take. 

Rich

2003 MB

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #23

If the Forum's search function worked better, you could find many reports of blown plugs from past postings, it's a real thing.

What search issue are you having?

When I go to Community -> Search and enter V10 spark plugs, I get 3 pages of topics describing the issue.

Note that when using the search on the upper right of a page, it defaults to searching the view/layer you are currently in.  If viewing a topic, it will only search that topic.  If viewing a sub-board, it will only search that sub-board (e.g. "Discussions", "Technical", "Yahoo Archive", etc.

Community -> Search gets you to the overall search engine, including the Advanced Search where you can apply filters, select which boards (or all) to search, and have the results sorted by relevance algorithm or post age.

Re: Advice needed on possible purchase UPDATE
Reply #24
When I went to post yesterday about the Fiamma awning fabric change I had just completed, I could not find the original posting I had made a couple of weeks ago. It did not appear in "Recent Posts",  being a little too long ago.
Using the Search function, I entered  "Fiamma awning fabric change", the actual title of the thread, plus my user name. It did not show the thread I was looking for; instead, other postings from the past. I tried several variations on the topic without success.
In the same thread, Liam pointed out he had searched for his Fiamma awning problem posting and could not find it.

After trying several variations on the topic, I went to "My Account" and found it in my past postings. This works for recent postings but doesn't work for those posted in the past.
This is a common problem for me as I try to find past postings to reduce the number of repeat posts I make.
I have thousands of postings, many technical and informative, but it is hard or impossible to find them. This is not an isolated case in my experience.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze