Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

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Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

December 31, 2022, 01:42:58 pm

Does anyone have knowledge of controller output on a 2002 LD? A lithium battery Co. tells me I need 13.9 output plus an alternator isolater to install 2 12vX50Ah batteries. These batteries are "midrange"..not the highest output I can get. Also I have looked and looked and I see no "elegant" idea about installing insulation and battery warmers to the outside battery enclosure.

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #1 – December 31, 2022, 05:12:47 pm

Hi Diver44; Welcome to the Lazy Daze Owners Group. (LDOG). Sometimes called the Fellowship of LD, (FOLD)
   The 2002 had a Parallax converter/charger. Not a very good charger for wet lead/acid and you'd be ahead of the game to upgrade to a PD4655 with the jumper for Li batteries. (I think they all come standard with that now).
'State of the art' combiner upgrades still just 'short' the output of the vehicle alternator to the Li batteries, but are smarter about it. The Victron Cyrix Amazon.com: Victron Intelligent Li-ion Battery Combiner Cyrix-Li-ct 12/24V -...   and the BattleBorn Battery isolation manager   Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Isolation Manager Li-BIM225 | eBay are used by some. I used a DC to DC converter from Renogy. It will take whatever voltage the chassis alternator will provide and charge the Lithium batteries with a profile and voltage suitable for them. DIP switches allow a choice of what type of battery to charge. Amazon.com: Renogy 12V 20A DC to DC On-Board Battery Charger for Flooded,...
   If you have much solar, you can combine solar controllers that will also charge house batteries from other inputs besides the PV panels. i.e. shore power, generator, or engine alternator. I preferred to keep the separate functions separate for troubleshooting and convenience purposes.
   Knowing what floorplan you have can affect choices of hardware, insulation techniques and heaters for a 2002. RonB

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Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #2 – December 31, 2022, 05:15:11 pm

First - if you know you are going to use your lithium batteries in cold weather consider self Heating batteries. Other than that you can use heating pads made for lithium batteries or have them in a heated area of the RV.
There are Facebook forums about these solutions - Check out the Litime (Ampere Time) group - I know they sell self heating batteries.

You asked about controller output…
You mean the charger converter (works with 120v going into the RV to charge the batteries and to convert 120v to 12v for 12v fixture and outlets (if you have any in the Coach) when You are on 120v power.
Or are you talking about charging your Coach batteries from the engine while driving

A great source of all things electrical in an RV is the Facebook group RVelectricity. Very sharp people in that group that can give you good info on all your topics.

Also, Before choosing a battery I highly suggest checking out Will Prowse you tube videos on all
things Solar as he tears apart batteries and informs us how well they are made and they have the features claimed.

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #3 – December 31, 2022, 05:19:09 pm

I see Ron was typing at the same time I did and gave you some good info.

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #4 – December 31, 2022, 05:31:30 pm

Hi Diver44; I used a 60A Renogy 'from engine alternator' charger, but I haven't hooked it up yet. (Maybe next week). My LD sits in the driveway with fully charged batteries (S.O.K. 206 times 2) and 450 watts of solar (just 350 w at the moment) and haven't had an issue with discharged batteries. If I were to have a shortfall of sunlight, my PD4655 converter/charger (set for Li) works quickly from shore power or generator power.
In my 'TK 23.5', I sealed off the vented battery door, put in a battery heater. That heater was originally meant for a fresh water tank and is just the right size to cover two batteries. It is 62 watts, 12vdc.and has a built in thermostat. I also added some insulation. I haven't been anywhere cold enough, long enough yet, to need the heater. If I'm in the motorhome running heat, I may not need that battery warmer. It is more insurance for if the motorhome is unattended in cold weather. RonB

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #5 – December 31, 2022, 06:27:09 pm

Looks like I have a lot of reading to do! Thx all!

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #6 – December 31, 2022, 06:39:19 pm

You said you're planning to install (have installed?) "2 12vX50Ah batteries." That's not much capacity for an RV like a Lazy Daze. Most LDs came with a pair of 225 Ah 6V batteries in series, providing 225 Ah at 12 V. Now, since these were lead-acid batteries, that didn't mean 225 Ah of usable capacity; as you know, it's not a great idea to make a habit of drawing lead-acid batteries below 50% state of charge or thereabouts. Using that rule of thumb, 225 Ah of batteries as installed by the factory are only good for about 112 usable amp-hours.

But then again, LiFePO4 batteries aren't magic either. They generally prefer not to be discharged below 20%, so your 100 Ah battery bank would really only be good for about 80 Ah. And aside from that, you can easily fit two 100 Ah LiFePO4 batteries in the same space as the original lead-acid batteries, giving you 160 usable Ah. So why cut corners?

Look at it this way: if you really believe that you can get by with only 100 Ah of rated capacity, then why not buy a single 100 Ah LiFePO4 battery--there are plenty of choices--and if you later decide to expand, you can easily connect a second one in parallel. (Normally you wouldn't want to mix old and new batteries, but Battle Born says it's OK to do that as long as the difference in age is less than a year and the older battery hasn't been abused.)

In short, putting two 50 Ah batteries in parallel doesn't seem like the best choice for a Lazy Daze sized RV. Can you explain your reasoning?

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #7 – December 31, 2022, 06:47:29 pm

"Also, Before choosing a battery I highly suggest checking out Will Probst you tube videos on all"

You can find Will's Words of Wisdom here:

https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

If you have the time and inclination, take a look at his back story! He is a totally amazing person.

Virtual hugs,

Judie

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #8 – January 01, 2023, 05:39:50 am

Yes, Will Prowse did a review of the S.O.K. 206 AH battery. I put two, with insulation, a 12vdc heater blanket and sealed the vented (louvered) door, in the original battery box of a 'TK. One such battery would provide about 160 AHours of usable power versus 110 Ahours of a lead acid with a depth of discharge of 50%. With a lifetime of 10 years or so with minimal de-rating, and at least 2000 charge/discharge cycles, the price is high but better that standard wet lead/acid, and much better than AGM batteries at their higher cost. One battery would fit easily, but might not start the 4kw Onan generator. The chassis battery could be used as an alternate for that. RonB

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #9 – January 01, 2023, 01:06:58 pm

You are right concerning capacity of batteries! I have not done my "due diligence" and was only thinking of the size of the battery compartment. Should have thought instead of battery capacity even if it means installing the batteries inside the coach instead of the battery compartment. I obviously haven't thought this thru! I will do some homework...including whether the batteries "off gas" at all?

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #10 – January 01, 2023, 02:18:40 pm

Diver44,

There’s plenty of warm space inside the rig for lithium’s and room up above to keep them charged. It’s all a matter of budget and the limitations of the LD model. Here’s my solution. ☃️

Kent

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #11 – January 01, 2023, 03:25:18 pm

Kent...WOW!! Andy,Judi, Ron...yes, I checked out Will's reviews and he knows & explains things very well. I am impressed with the heated SOK's. Question for all you conversant in all things electrical.without going out to my L. Daze and reading the backs of my TV and DirecTV receiver, what is a "guess" as to what I would need to run an "efficient" tv and Direct receiver on battery power alone for 4 hours at nite...boondocking? Don't expect to run an air conditioner like Kent but would like to run the tv/receiver for my wife at nite.

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #12 – January 01, 2023, 04:58:35 pm

Our OEM system from Lazy Daze in 2015 included 200 watts of solar and two 100 amp hours of AGM batteries.

We used a DVD player with a small 200 watt inverter and viewed & charged an iPad daily. The DVD player ran for about 2 hours nightly. This system was fine for the first year or so until I eventually mistreated the AGM batteries too much. After that the charging system the factory provided was unable to keep up with our simple needs. The factory battery monitor was a poor way to keep track of the AGM state of charge.

There was nothing worse than having to run the engine or generator to bring the AGMs back to a good charge level. It became a real PITA and hence my overkill on our solar/battery upgrade.

The original solar/AGM set up was okay but not perfect. If you can’t do a decent upgrade, I would recommend a better BMS (battery monitor system) to keep a better eye on how far down you are taking your battery charge level. This is an inexpensive upgrade and easily installed.

Good luck,

Kent

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #13 – January 02, 2023, 03:18:41 am

Hi Diver44; My modern flat screen LCD TV, with LED back lighting is a 24" diagonal size and uses about 3.5 amps. Since it is a 120VAC, I use a 75 watt inverter to run it. To also run a Direct TV satellite converter box, this table details current drain. https://www.directv.com/idpassets/fragment/directv/pdfs/DIRECTV-Receiver-Energy-Info.pdf . At about 20 Watts (110 VAC.) or another 2 amps. Again that box is 120VAC, but likely the same inverter, or maybe a 100 Watt inverter could run both. That would be 6 Amps times 12.7 is about 75 watts. For 4 hours would require about 300 Watt hours. An SOK 206 can supply about 2,250 Watt hours with an 80% Depth of Discharge. (DoD), or about 5 nights worth. (of course you want to run lights, water pump and maybe a heater) so two batteries would be better. That's assuming no recharge from solar or anything else. I notice that sound level and brightness increases the power drain.
I first set up my system and went to Morro Bay, and I had trouble understanding why my batteries wouldn't take any solar power. When I realized my battery monitor was still set up for lead acid I restarted it, and found that both my batteries were completely charged at 9:00 AM.. State of Charge SOC was at 100%. Any power I used during the day came off the roof. Except for the microwave! Using that would cause a 97 Amp drain, and maybe a little more from solar coming in. I still never got below 88% SOC, and by early morning they would both be back to 100%.
Batteries aren't generators of power. And pretty imperfect at that. Solar PV panels convert sunlight to electricity, and old Sol, is the generator. Most of the people here with lithuim batteries also have solar in the 400 to more watt range. That best utilizes a good battery bank's capacity. RonB

Re: Original LD battery charger/controller output on 2002

Reply #14 – January 02, 2023, 11:12:49 am

Got it! Thx

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