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Topic: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise (Read 723 times) previous topic - next topic
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Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
There’s been an issue I’ve had since my LD was new.  It’s a rattling/ticking sound coming from the engine (sounds like a rattlesnake is at my feet) that occurs at various speeds: 45mph and 65 mph.  If I take my foot off the accelerator, it stops. At first, I thought it was engine knock or pinging so while on one of our long trips I used higher octane gas and even tried gas additive.  It still happened.  At my next scheduled oil change, I took it to a Ford Truck Fleet service center and they determined the problem was the Alternator and replaced it under warranty.  The noise eventually returned on our next trip.  At my next oil change, I took the LD to a different service place (non-Ford because the previous place stopped maintaining RVs).  They determined It was the Serpentine Belt, which was replaced.  The noise returned.

So, I started “Googling” the symptom and found on multiple RV Forums that multiple owners of RVs with the Ford E450 V10 engine have had this exact issue.  All of them took their RVs either to a Ford service or RV repair place and got the same solutions: (1)Engine knock - use a higher grade of gas, (2) tighten or replace the Serpentine Belt.  Neither worked.   Finally, one Forum member mounted a GoPro camera on his engine and recorded the Serpentine Belt while driving.  You can see the Youtube video here: https://youtu.be/Oa6cr2dFkPE   You can see and hear the issue at the 15 second mark in the video.  The video is better viewed on a device with a larger screen than my iPhone 12 Mini.  The issue seems to be that at certain RPMs, the Serpentine Belt is vibrating and twisting which is causing the ticking sound.  This is the exact sound I am hearing on my RV.

Some of the Forum members discovered that beginning in 2000, Ford changed the Serpentine Belt from a wider 8-ribbed to 6-ribbed Belt.  When Ford did that, they also stopped installing an Idler Pulley on the driver's side of the engine.  In the video you can see the bolt mounting where the Pulley was - which happens to be the exact place where the Serpentine Belt is twisting.     

Some of those more mechanically knowledgeable Form members found the Part Numbers for the Idler Pulley and Bolt (I think it may be the same one that is mounted on the passenger side of the engine), ordered them, and installed them.  See attachment.  They said the installation was easy and took 15 minutes.  The hardest part was removing the air filter to get at the area.  Many Forum members had the Pulley installed and after many miles (and years), the noise has not returned.  Forum members were not able to find out why Ford eliminated the Pulley.  And Ford is not aware of this noise issue and there’s no published notice of it - even though a lot of RV owners have the issue.

Just before I went on a 2,200 mile trip to the East coast, I ordered and installed the pulley.  There was no noise.  Just wondering if anyone else has had this issue.
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #1 –
Glenn, sounds like you fixed it!  Do you have a source/part number for said pulley?
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #2 –
Congratulations Glenn!

I admire your dogged determination to get to the root of the problem and not just live with an annoyance. It sounds like it cost Ford a lot of warranty $$$ to not fix the problem.

Thanks for sharing your journey!

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #3 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
Glenn, sounds like you fixed it!  Do you have a source/part number for said pulley?

Idler Pulley:  Ford Part# 1L2Z-8678-AD or Aftermarket# YS-385
Bolt:  Ford Part# N808102 or Aftermarket# S437
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #4 –
Good to know, first time I have heard about this, it must be uncommon but the camera doesn’t lie, the belt flutters..
The first thing I would look for is loose or worn belt idler bearings, they can cause all sorts of noises and belt fluttering, serpentine belts are fussy about their alignment.
The extra idler maybe hiding loose bearings, Ford evidently didn’t think the extra idler was necessary, a few million V10s have been built since the year 2000. 
If this was a widespread problem, there would be TSBs on the issue.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
Good to know, first time I have heard about this, it must be uncommon but the camera doesn’t lie, the belt flutters..
The first thing I would look for is loose or worn belt idler bearings, they can cause all sorts of noises and belt fluttering, serpentine belts are fussy about their alignment.
The extra idler maybe hiding loose bearings, Ford evidently didn’t think the extra idler was necessary, a few million V10s have been built since the year 2000. 
If this was a widespread problem, there would be TSBs on the issue.

Larry

I was amazed of the number of Ford V10 RV owners who posted this issue on other RV Forums.  A number of them had gone to Ford service repair places and the technicians saw the issue but said they didn't know what to do about it other than replace the belt.  I have a neighbor who works at Ford Dearborn MI HQ and he searched the TSB database and found nothing about this issue.  I guess Ford doesn't think it's an issue - just an annoying noise.  I'm not sure of what the long term effect (if any) the fluttering would have on the belt over time. 

Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #6 –
Thankyou Glenn for being so tenacious, and I'm glad that you figured out the cause.  Going to a thinner belt sounds like an attempt to save money, in the wrong place. If an engineer put in a wider belt originally, it should have stayed that way.  Just because it isn't quite a safety concern (yet), doesn't mean that Ford should ignore the potential for unplanned early failures.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #7 –
Thankyou Glenn for being so tenacious, and I'm glad that you figured out the cause.  Going to a thinner belt sounds like an attempt to save money, in the wrong place. If an engineer put in a wider belt originally, it should have stayed that way.  Just because it isn't quite a safety concern (yet), doesn't mean that Ford should ignore the potential for unplanned early failures.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #8 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
Going to a thinner belt sounds like an attempt to save money, in the wrong place. If an engineer put in a wider belt originally, it should have stayed that way.  Just because it isn't quite a safety concern (yet), doesn't mean that Ford should ignore the potential for unplanned early failures.  RonB

Running changes in engines and other parts is common, if Glenn is correct on when Ford changed to a narrow belt and eliminated one idler, then it evidently Ford's engineers didn't consider it to be a necessity, auto manufacturers regularly update their products.  The change was in 2000, 21 years ago, that's a long time ago, and many billions of V10 miles.
Belt and idler problems seem relatively uncommon, I know of no other owner ever reporting this issue on the forum, nor have I read it on other Ford and RV forums. If it was a big problem, we probably would have heard of happening here before.
I wouldn't stay up nights worrying this may happen to your LD,  periodic inspection of the belt and idlers should be part of a long-term maintenance program.

A few people having problems can look huge when the postings get circulated and re-circulated through the various Ford and RV internet forums. It's not a new phenomenon and maybe what we are seeing here.

Have any other forum members had or seen this problem before?

Larry


Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #9 –
Glenn,

Thanks for the info. We've been experiencing the very same problem. So far Ford's given us a new alternator and tensioner under warranty, but neither solved our "chirping"problem (happens at about 2100-2300 rpm when accelerating, stops immediately if you take your foot off the gas).

I'd also read about this problem on some RV forums and we were just debating installing the "extra" idler pulley ourselves.

Thanks so much for the part numbers - think we're gonna give it a try!

2018 Mid-Bath Beatrix (bringer of joy)
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #10 –
My 97 had 2 pulleys and both needed to be replaced do to being worn out and squeaking a little.  Didn't even notice newer ones had only one with a different belt.  Once I loosened the tensioner to remove the belt I had to replace that too.
1997 TK
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #11 –
Glenn, I have a 2018 and have exactly the same issue.  I've taken it to several Ford dealerships and mechanics and they suggested all the same things you mentioned, especially blaming the problem on the grade of gas, octane, ethanol, water in the gas tank, etc.  Mine is going in again in December for this issue as well as some regular maintenance, so the link to the video was super helpful. So, thanks very much.

For everyone who thinks this isn't an issue for other LD owners, I've spoken to several who have the same issue with the same outcome with taking it to mechanics, Ford or other.  They are not willing to post their experience on this forum because they are afraid that down the line when they go to sell, it may be looked at that there was a serious engine problem.  Fortunately this is being discussed and a real solution provided which will help so many others.

I will try to remember to post again after she goes into the shop next month and provide an update. 



Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #12 –
Our 2017 needed the idler pulley replaced to eliminate the tapping noise.
Ross Taylor
2017 MB
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #13 –
The video and the posts (on LDO) on this topic seem to involve 2017 and 2018 model year E-450s; have those who have found references in other forums to this belt issue noticed other model years being mentioned, consistently or otherwise?
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #14 –
I can’t answer your question, Joan. I can say that we’ve not experienced the issue in the ~15k miles we’ve driven our 2019 E-450 based Mid Bath. Anecdotal, I know. But, perhaps Ford addressed the issue for 2019 and beyond.
Warren
2019 MB “Dream Catcher”
Jeep Wrangler JL
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #15 –
Quote from: Ross and Beverly Taylor  - 
Our 2017 needed the idler pulley replaced to eliminate the tapping noise.

Belt problems and noises have occurred for over a hundred years and the causes remain similar.
The pulleys, idlers, and spring-loaded idlers need to be in perfect alignment and their axles in the same plane.
Loose bearings, out of alignment pulley and idlers, or a weak spring on the spring-loaded idlers will allow the belt to move in ways it shouldn't, possibly causing chirping and fluttering noises.
Belts can also have problems in manufacturing that can cause noises.
There are many possible causes of belt noise that are not engine design issues.

Checking for alignment requires getting to the belt drive, best done on E450s with the radiator removed so the actual alignment can be checked, as well as the condition of the idlers, something that can't be done with the radiator and its shroud in place.
This is basic Automotive 101. After years of working with and hiring mechanics, few are excellent at diagnostics.
With the millions of the 6.8L V10s built and in-service, if this was a widespread problem, common to all V10s, there would be a slew of TSBs (technical service bulletins) produced by Ford covering the subject. Has anyone found any?

What we don't know about the belt fluttering is how many of these V10s had their existing idlers checked and replaced, if necessary, before an extra pulley was installed. Adding an extra idler maybe a band-aid that covers up other unsolved problems.
At 130,000 miles, our LD has never experienced and belt noises, nor have I known anyone with this problem.
I replaced our LD's V10 idlers and fan clutch at 100,000 miles as preventative maintenance, I found two idlers that were getting loose.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Ford E450 V10: Serpentine Belt Twisting/Vibrating Rattling Noise
Reply #16 –
"At 130,000 miles, our LD has never experienced and belt noises, nor have I known anyone with this problem."
---
The belt and hoses in my 2003 (current mileage 120,000) were changed at about 90,000 miles as part of regular maintenance; I did not hear any "belt noises" before the change, and none after.

YMMV, as always.

 
2003 TK has a new home