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Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Hi All,
Got a question I want to run by you.
We went on a big trip recently (we are new to RV'ing and LD's but we've had ours for about 6 months now) and everything went great, specifically with the battery and solar setup. I changed out the factory installed charge controller before we left because it seemed like it had given up the ghost and was just not working. I replaced it with the Blue Sky 3000i MPPT controller and it seemed to work great. After getting back from our trip and the RV sitting for a few weeks (LD is parked in our driveway) I noticed the batteries at night were only registering a charge of 10.5 or 10.6.; I looked this up and this seems to be bad. The charge controller is sending a 6 amp charge to the batteries (or at least from the display screen it says it is) and the voltage will show around 13.5 or so during the day, but as the day moves on the voltage gets lower and lower, pretty much staying in line with the amps going down as the sun goes down. On top of this the other day I noticed what sounded like bubbling coming from the batteries when I went to inspect them and make sure the water level was ok (I have interstate golf cart batteries, two 6 volts). Have one or more of the batteries just gone bad or is there a larger problem at work here that I just don't understand? I assumed the solar would keep the batteries topped off but maybe I was wrong about that too?
Any masterful help from you all would be awesome if you happen to see this post and get the time to reply.
As always thanks in advance, this resource is phenomenal,
John
1999 26.5 Rear Bath
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #1 –
Hi John;  No, not good. The age of the batteries would help here.  Disconnect one lead and measure each battery separately. Each one should be 6.1+ volts. If you get one that is about 4 volts, you have a shorted cell. Replacement is the only cure. If both batteries are the same age and elderly, replace both.
    I assume you aren't plugged in.  The default programming for the SB3000i doesn't turn on the equalizing function. Did you install the battery temperature compensating sensor? Since you do have wet lead acid batteries, you can turn this feature on, but it will only do so during the day. two hours every 30 days.  That equalizing function will ruin AGM batteries quickly. You didn't say what type of converter you have? How much solar Watts do you have?  What type of solar controller did you remove?
   Your 1999 converter would be the Magnetek 6345. I replaced mine recently and it improved things a lot.  The voltage shouldn't drop during the day. 6 amps is too much. Do you have any 12v appliances running. An infamous one is the forced air heater left on, that only runs at night. With the gas turned off, it runs continually all night, but is off during the day when you are around. A big 'phantom' load.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #2 –
You probably have a shorted cell. Disconnect the batteries, and measure the voltage across each after an hour. One will likely read 6 something, and the other 4 something. Your batteries are probably fully charged - on 5 of 6 cells. The charge controller keeps trying to charge them up to 14.4 volts, and in so doing is overcharging the good cells, causing the boiling. Time to replace both batteries.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #3 –
Hi Guys,
Cool, ok, I'm gonna try all that you suggested. I was looking up stuff before posting and I was figuring a shorted cell sounded like the problem too, but since I don't know much about this stuff I wanted to post here and see what you you all thought.
Thanks RonB, here are some answers to your specific questions:
1. I'm not sure the age of the batteries, I started looking up some info on how to read that but didn't quite get around to finding that info on my batteries. As soon as I know I'll post it here.
2. I am not plugged in sir.
3. I didn't change the default settings on the 3000i, so I don't think the equalizing function is on.
4. I did not install or purchase (yet) the temperature sensor. I thought I read it was optional, and since we were going on our trip soon I figured I'd wait to do that until I got back from the trip. I meant to ask if you guys thought installing the charge controller without the temperature sensor could possibly be an issue?
5. I'm not sure what type of converter I have, I'm pretty sure its the factory installed one from LD.
6. I believe I have roughly around 175-200 watts of solar. Two panels on the roof. During my research one seems to be the factory installed BP panel, I think its was 85 watts when I looked it up, and the other I believe is around that size or a little larger. I'm still learning all this stuff, haha!
7. The charge controller I removed was the factory installed LD one from 99', the Heliotrope RV-30S
1999 26.5 Rear Bath
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #4 –
Hi guys,
Got the batteries out and tested them with the multi meter. Looks like one is reading about 4.5, sounds like that's our shorted cell. Also discovered these batteries look to be 14 years old based on the date code one em, they are two 6 volt interstate golf cart batteries, 210 amp hours each it looks like.
I am going to replace both batteries as you have both suggested. 14 years looks like way longer than these batteries should have lasted according to google. I have searched the forums here and believe the Trojan 105s are the thing everyone suggests. Do you guys have better options you might suggest? I was thinking of going with something maintenance free. I don't think the Trojan batteries are maintenance free. RonB, you mentioned AGM batteries, do you suggest I get some of those and is there a brand and model you like? What do either of you have in your own rigs if you don't mind me asking.
Thanks!
John
1999 26.5 Rear Bath
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #5 –
14 years is a very long time.

Search the forum for "Costco Batteries"   They (and Sam's Club) carry 6v golf cart batteries that many of us find to be a good value for the $.

AGMs can be a lower maintenance middle ground, and lithium batteries can be fantastic if you want the most performance regardless of the price. 

AGMs and Lithiums often call for slightly different charging specs, something to beware of if you switch from lead-acid. 

Rich
2003 MB
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #6 –
Hi John;  As Rich said, I'm a firm user of the Costco (Interstate) batteries. Use the money you will save by not buying AGMs, to upgrade your converter charger.  My preference is the Progressive Dynamics  PD4655 VL.  Way better than the Magnetek 6345 that your '99 came with.  Mine had the same 6345, and while it still worked, I had a high amount of 120 Hz ripple that interfered with newer electronics proper operation. The old battery charge section was very primitive and didn't take advantage of generator time, and would overcharge batteries if left plugged in.   55 Amp Kit for 6300 Series    You'll need the new fuse panel also which comes with the above link. I didn't need the remote pendant.
    Pretty amazing that the old Interstate batteries made it to 14 years old.     RonB
  
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #7 –
Thanks Rich and RonB, I will take this advice and go with the Costco batteries, right on.
And thanks for the advice on the converter/charger RonB, that sounds like a great idea, I am gonna seriously consider doing this. Gotta bone up on what it takes to pull a job like this off first. I'll try looking through the forums if anyone has written up anything on the process already.
Much appreciated!
1999 26.5 Rear Bath
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #8 –

Lead-acid batteries are the cheapest per amp-hour but do require adding water. make the job fast and clean with a remote battery filler.
Amazon.com: Flow-Rite RV2000 Pro-Fill RV Edition 2 Battery Kit : Automotive

We have run a Progressive Dynamic PD9270C for the last 15 years with zero problems and fast charging, good for when the generaor is used to top off a depleted battery.

Larry

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Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #9 –
Quote from: JohnDon  - 
Thanks Rich and RonB, I will take this advice and go with the Costco batteries, right on.


A question that needs to be asked "how long do you plan to keep your LD?"   What may seems 'cheap' in the short run may be more expensive in the long run.

The pros and cons of what type of battery and the cost have been 'debated' on the forum.  <smile> us old guys I'm sure would be very happy to take it up again .......   Do a good search and you'll find all the important points.

glen

A two year old study ..... cost of batteries may have changed
Battery type costs
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #10 –
When analyzing battery lifetime cost, you need to factor in usage. 'Potential' total A-hrs is a pointless statistic unless you use 'em all! Typically, in our use, we rarely go much below 20% discharged on a daily basis. Partly this is because for most daylight use, our solar capacity keeps up with our needs, and also leaves the batteries at 100% by dusk. Other than that we are pretty energy frugal.

That said, at next battery change, we will likely go lithium simply for the advantages - cost not the issue. The lithiums can be quickly recharged to full capacity in the absence of solar, and we could add usage requiring a heavy discharge, such as microwave, etc. For most, I think improving the 'experience' of RV travel is more significant than a few hundred dollars needed to accomplish that.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #11 –
I agree with Steve...
Quote from: Steve  - 
When analyzing battery lifetime cost, you need to factor in usage. 'Potential' total A-hrs is a pointless statistic unless you use 'em all!
Battery usage is mainly driven by your chosen RV "lifestyle": Boondocker vs Park/Campground use with utilities. Being an ex Development Purchasing/Materials Manager I always default to Cost/Benefit analyses. There is no "one size fits all" answer. For some a set of Costco/Sam's Club GC2 "golf cart" batteries are all they need, for others an entire bank of LiFePO4 batteries is essential. C'est la vie.

Charles





Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #12 –

Hi John;  In my reply #6 I specified a Progressive Dynamics converter with the VL option. By changing that jumper you can go Lithium battery in the future.  It does require other changes to the charging system, such as a smart Cyrix relay  Amazon.com: Victron Energy Cyrix-ct 12/24-Volt 120 amp Intelligent Battery...     that senses the voltage and charge level of the LiFePO4 batteries, and can shut off to prevent overcharging. I'm not sure how the SB3000i handles this but the output voltage can be changed.
    You've had good luck with the old 'golf cart' battery system so you just might want to keep using that for now.  I'm waiting for a price drop on Li's or possibly new chemistry. I think the prospects may still be in flux.  With a 22 year old LD, any large investment in batteries will likely wait for a newer motorhome. Possibly a hybrid system with the Li's under the back (Old Tesla used pack) floor...      RonB

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RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #13 –
We RVers are quick to turn to solar and battery upgrades when we want more power.

It's easy to forget that older rigs can get as much or more benefit for the dollar from upgrading converters (charge faster) and lights (LEDs) and other electronics to lower consumption versions.

If you still have the older stock fluorescent lights in your rig, that is an easy update that will save loads of power!

Rich
  
2003 MB
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #14 –
As Rich said, I've changed all inside and outside lighting to LED (except headlights, possibly soon).  I'm in the process of adding more solar, from about 100W to 450 W.  (Thanks Kent and Joel)    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #15 –
Thanks all for all the great information and discussion!
I'm taking to heart and thinking over all the comments and options in all of these posts:
COLDDOG: Great question. Honestly initially we planned to just buy the LD and go on this big 5 week trip we just did and then sell it. Found LD because of the great reputation and I was happy that so many people like em and the reality of selling it quickly after using it seemed like a real option. Secretly I always wanted to keep it, but I wasn't sure my wife would be on board. I believe she is on board now, so I think we'll be keeping it, at least for the near future. I'm new to RV'ing but having a blast learning and working on things. Funny thing, I had a guy drive by the other day and stop his car in front of my house and ask if I was interested in selling it. Wow!
STEVE: Thanks STEVE, I'm definitely weighing it all, I think going with something similar to what I have now is best.
CHARLES & DONNA: I think you are right, think about how I like to use it and then go from there. We mostly did campgrounds with power, but we did do a little boondocking. I think that is probably going to be our pattern, since we have 4 kids.
RONB: Thannks Ron! Always appreciate your responses man! Good info. I am definitely going to change out the interior lighting, I've been looking into it casually whenever I get a free minute.
RICH: Thanks Rich, I will definitely do this.

1999 26.5 Rear Bath
Re: Charge controller boiling batteries and batteries not holding charge
Reply #16 –
Oh, and thanks LARRYW for that battery filler thing link, awesome!
1999 26.5 Rear Bath