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Topic: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade? (Read 1399 times) previous topic - next topic
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House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Hi.  I had the audio system replaced in my 2005 26.5 LD.  I forgot to check everything before I left the installer.  The new audio system sounds great but now there is no 12 volt power to the rest of the house.  I didn't notice it until our next trip, so it's been a few weeks.  I'm ready to go back to the installer, but he doubts that anything he did would cause this problem.  The batteries are perfect and only the audio system has power.  No blow fuses.  Am I missing something, or could he have done something wrong during the install? 
MattB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #1 –
Does your coach battery have a switch?
It would be located between the two coach batteries and may have been turned off as a safety precaution.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #2 –
Quote from: Mbrown1  - 
Hi.  I had the audio system replaced in my 2005 26.5 LD.  I forgot to check everything before I left the installer.  The new audio system sounds great but now there is no 12 volt power to the rest of the house.  I didn't notice it until our next trip, so it's been a few weeks.  I'm ready to go back to the installer, but he doubts that anything he did would cause this problem.  The batteries are perfect and only the audio system has power.  No blow fuses.  Am I missing something, or could he have done something wrong during the install? 
What model/floor plan do you have? I'd like to add it to your profile.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #3 –
This is a long shot, but...

If you have a midbath, remove the drawer below the fridge, reach around the left side of the opening and feel/look for a small black or gray box (about 1" x 1/2" x 1/2", as I recall) with a small black button on one side. This is your master 12 V circuit breaker. Push the button to reset it. If you're lucky, that may cure the problem.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #4 –
By the way, the audio system Lazy Daze installs at the factory is wired so that it gets its power from the house batteries, rather than from the engine's starting battery. That's so you can listen to it while parked, without fear of running down your starting battery.

If your new stereo has power but your house 12 V system doesn't, then it sounds as if your installer changed the power source, and your new stereo is powered by the starting battery. That's not a great way to do things, for the reason just mentioned.

It seems likely that in the process of changing over the power source for the new stereo, the installer somehow tripped that master breaker. That's my guess, anyhow. If you can solve your house 12 V problem by resetting the breaker, fine--but I would insist on having the wiring corrected so that the new unit is powered by the house batteries, as the factory intended. Otherwise someday you might find yourself unable to fire up that V10, because the stereo drained your starting battery.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
If you have a midbath, remove the drawer below the fridge, reach around the left side of the opening and feel/look for a small black or gray box (about 1" x 1/2" x 1/2", as I recall) with a small black button on one side. This is your master 12 V circuit breaker. Push the button to reset it. If you're lucky, that may cure the problem.

If this or the battery switch is not the cause of the problem, a voltmeter or a 12-volt test light can be used to trace the 12-volt power between the coach battery and Power Center, located inside the rig, at floor level, find the spot where the power stops.
This is a good opportunity to find the location of the 'hidden' circuit breaker, every LD owner should know this.

FYI, some of the circuit breakers have a reset button, others are automatic and reset after a certain amount of time. If the short is not corrected, an automatic breaker will eventually burn out and require replacement.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #6 –
Wow.  Thanks for all the responses.  I've checked them all.  I'm still looking for this mysterious hidden switch under the fridge.  I don't see it anywhere.  Could this be the switch located at the back of the battery compartment?  Mine is a 2005 26.5 mid-bath Island bed.
MattB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #7 –
The only clue the Factory gives is that the 'hidden' breaker is within 2' of the Power Center, a RIVA code requirement.
Use Andy's instructions on its location, find the wires coming from the battery box (you can see the back of the black plastic battery box from the cabinet under the refrigerator) to the Power Center, the breaker will be near the bundle of wires going off to the left.
It's in there, keep looking.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Mbrown1  - 
Mine is a 2005 26.5 mid-bath Island bed.

Do you have a permanent queen bed in the rear, instead of two couches that can be pulled together?  If so, you have one of the uncommon 26.5' Island Bed model.  I don't know how much they have in common with what we all call the Mid-Bath model.

Art
Art and Barbara
Settled in Atterdag Village of Solvang
2015-2022 fulltime in a 2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
2002-2015 2002 LD MB
Art's blog
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #9 –
Quote from: Mbrown1  - 
Wow.  Thanks for all the responses.  I've checked them all.  I'm still looking for this mysterious hidden switch under the fridge.  I don't see it anywhere.  Could this be the switch located at the back of the battery compartment?  Mine is a 2005 26.5 mid-bath Island bed.

We are confused by your description of the floorplan, If it is 26.5' Queen Bed, it's a very rare floorplan that was discontinued many years ago, I have no idea where it would be. 
I would find the battery box and Power Center and check the wire run between the two of them, that is where the breaker will be located. You may need to remove a panel or reach up inside a cabinet to find it.
Maybe an owner of the same floorplan will tell us.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #10 –
Ours is a much older coach and a mid bath our battery's are located just ahead of the entrance door. The hidden breaker is mounted under the dinette seat in a position where you need to stand on your head to see it. It is in fact within 2 feet of the battery's. They are really hard to see, so keep looking.

Jon
1994 MB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #11 –
Um, while we’re on the subject, can someone point out where this breaker is located in a TK circa 2006?  — Jon
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #12 –
Quote from: Jon & Loni  - 
Um, while we’re on the subject, can someone point out where this breaker is located in a TK circa 2006?  — Jon

Ask Joan.
The battery box and Power Center are not far apart, expect to find the breaker inside a cabinet or behind a drawer, between them.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #13 –
Hi Jon. I have a TK, vintage '99. IIRC I saw it when I was putting in some wiring mods about 18 years ago.  Check to see if there are those little brass flat head screws holding down the panel that forms the base of the vanity cabinet. Right where the cabinet angles toward the power center in the 'closest to you' area between the battery box back, and the angled area is a breaker. It looked like a self resetting breaker, but it might have had a button to reset it. I'll check it and take a picture, if I remember, tomorrow.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #14 –
I have read and reread Mbrown's post and all the replies several times. Some questions I would ask Mbrown (the original poster) is HOW do you know your batteries are "perfect"? Have you checked each one individually with a voltmeter to see if each 6 volt battery is making 6+ volts? Or have you checked the volts of the 2 batteries to make sure you are getting 12+volts?

My thought is that the installer disconnected the house batteries when they removed the old audio system because it was connected to the house batteries. It seems they wired the new audio system into the truck battery since it is working. It may be that they did not reconnect the house batteries properly. If the cable that connects the positive terminal of one battery to the negative terminal of the other battery, is not connected properly, the "perfect" batteries will not put out the 12 volts you need.

I know this well since we had a cable terminal break off a cable while we were parked in a rest area. We have the battery disconnect switch and one of the cables to the switch broke and was no longer connected. I thought for sure a battery had failed. I checked each battery and was getting over 6 volts but when I checked the combination of the 2 batteries I had no volts showing. I stopped at an auto parts store and bought a short new cable to connect the two batteries together and I then had power. I was ready to start looking for hidden circuit breakers and tripped breakers. This is sort of like appliance manuals that say to check to see if it is plugged in before calling a repair person.

Please let us know how this problem is solved.

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #15 –
"My thought is that the installer disconnected the house batteries when they removed the old audio system because it was connected to the house batteries. It seems they wired the new audio system into the truck battery since it is working. It may be that they did not reconnect the house batteries properly."

Exactly. The installer, treating the RV as if it were a car, hooked up the new stereo to the engine's start battery instead to the house batteries, the way the original unit was connected. (You'd think they would have noticed that when they disconnected the old unit. Or maybe they just thought, "Wow, that's screwy. I'll do it the right way this time.") In the process, they somehow screwed up the house 12 V system--probably by tripping a DC breaker.

MBrown1, you'll need to find the tripped breaker... and if it were me, I'd have that installer rewire the new stereo so that it's powered by the house batteries, the way it's supposed to be.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #16 –
Hi Andy, yes I can see the installer disconnecting the chassis battery to work on the new radio, then shorting out the house battery fuse, thinking that it wasn't 'live'. I think the radio fuse is under the hood near the isolator and the CB fuse in those yellow fuse holders. Then when they turned the new radio on, couldn't get the radio to work, so hooked it up to the chassis battery.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #17 –
Good guess, Ron. This installer was not too bright.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #18 –
Thank you everyone. I'm caught off guard by the number of responses. Yes 2006 is the last year the island bed was offered on the 26.5 .  we were very happy to find it.   I went back to the installer.  He kept it for two days and swears the audio is correctly wired to the house batteries and checked them too. fully charged.    i still haven't found the breaker.  the way you've described it must be on the same side as the battery box and power center and not on the side with the refer.  I'll check tomorrow and give an update.  my only option looks like hiring a $$  rv pro.  thanks again Matt
MattB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #19 –
"He kept it for two days and swears the audio is correctly wired to the house batteries..."

Interesting. In your original post you said "The new audio system sounds great but now there is no 12 volt power to the rest of the house." If that's correct, it's hard to imagine how the stereo could be wired to the house batteries.

"i still haven't found the breaker. the way you've described it must be on the same side as the battery box and power center"

It's going to be close to the batteries, that's for sure--probably less than two feet away. It'll look like this: smaller than an ice cube, probably with a small round reset button on one side.

Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #20 –
Thank you Andy.  I will be back on the hunt tonight!
MattB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #21 –
Matt,

In my 2003 TK it's located between the power center and the fridge. When the drawer below the fridge is removed I can look to the left and see the battery box. The fuse is located close to the top corner of the battery box mounted on the interior cabinet framework.

Steve
Steve
2003TK
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #22 –
Thanks Steve, I knew I had seen it somewhere, but I must have had the drawer out. That was a long time ago. Hopefully that will help Matt out.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #23 –
Hey Matt,
I wasn't sure whether you were able to resolve your power issue but since I too have a 26.5 Island Bed(2004) our floor plans are more than likely identical and just thought I would share some info. This is a pic of an electric assembly that is on the back wall of the coach battery compartment that was identified by another member of the forum as a 50amp main circuit breaker. Maybe this is the elusive breaker that you seek? Best regards from one Matt to another:)
2004 26.5 Island Bed. Gumby
2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
Re: House 12 volt is dead because of audio upgrade?
Reply #24 –
Hi.  Kinda crazy.  My name is Matt Brown and I was just in Yachats OR last week.  Nice weather.  This is it!  This must be the breaker all are speaking of.  I can only see a switch on the left side in your picture.  When I hold it in, it doesn't reset, hold in place or really do anything at all.  Any thoughts?  Replacement?  
MattB