Removing living room table - 2000 30IB - Installing Breakfast bar / dog crate

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Removing living room table - 2000 30IB - Installing Breakfast bar / dog crate

May 14, 2020, 08:18:50 am

I am interested in removing the flip up living room table in our 2000 30IB. Looking to put in a long table / counter top with dog crate underneath behind driver seat and a breakfast bar with two stools between the crate and stove.

The new tabletop would cover the entire surface area of the dog crate (28" wide x 42" long - long side will be against wall - short side backing up to seat) behind the driver's seat then bump in a bit (10-12" or so) to make a ledge in front of window (between the crate and the stove) we could put two small stools at to make an eating area at "breakfast bar".

My plan is to get some large pieces of cardboard and make a template in an attempt to see if this is feasible in this space for functionality and comfort.

Seeking advice on removing the table without damaging the wall to much. From searching the forum it appears the table is attached with glue and screws - that have been placed from outside of the rig to inside prior to siding put on. What I found was to pry the table a little bit away from the wall and use an oscillating tool to cut the screws. Not an easy task. Any further advice from anyone who has done this?

Also, interested on ideas for table top material. My dad is suggesting a counter top. I was thinking a solid wood door trimmed down. I am not sure which material would weigh less or be easier to work with. The door pic attached is $30 - the countertop is $10.

Hopefully my description made this more clear than mud!! This is my first time trying to add pictures into a post. Fingers crossed I can figure this one out.

As always - Thanks for all your input!!

Jodi

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #1 – May 14, 2020, 08:39:57 am

You don't have to use a solid wood door. A hollow core door can be cut down if you save the side pieces and glue them back between the layers. Would save a lot of weight.

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #2 – May 14, 2020, 09:33:00 am

Thanks Linda -

I didnt think a hollow door would be modifiable but thanks to your suggestion - i googled a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-_CSMGXr3k

In interested of weight management - this is something we might consider for sure. As most of you know - i dont have a ton of wiggle room regarding weight in the 30 IB.

Jodi

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #3 – May 14, 2020, 10:04:48 am

When the factory makes a table, they lay out a wood frame using 3/4" thick wood. They then use wood glue and staples to attach 3/16" plywood to one side, then the other side. They finish with a plastic laminate top. The result is a very lightweight structure whose strength depends on the arrangement and spacing of the 3/4" wood bracing. You will need that wood bracing at any points that will be used for screws to attach legs, hinges, etc.

Solid counter top material is heavy, and I am thinking that your $10 number may be a typo. Twenty years ago, I used this kind of material to top a bathroom cabinet. The 2' x 3' top cost me more than $100. It would, however, be both attractive and durable.

As Linda said, there is no need for a solid door, but you WILL need solid wood anywhere you plan to place screws.

Ken F in NM

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #4 – May 14, 2020, 02:00:33 pm

Hi Jodi; I haven't been in enough 30 footers to know the layout, but I think that cabinet in between the barrel chairs has your house batteries inside, at the base. The factory pictures aren't clear. If not, removing the cabinet isn't easy, unless you aren't keeping any of it. RonB

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #5 – May 14, 2020, 03:18:00 pm

Quote from: RonB - May 14, 2020, 02:00:33 pm

Hi Jodi; I haven't been in enough 30 footers to know the layout, but I think that cabinet in between the barrel chairs has your house batteries inside, at the base. The factory pictures aren't clear. If not, removing the cabinet isn't easy, unless you aren't keeping any of it. RonB

Battery compartment is on passenger side to the left of door while facing it.

Jodi, remember all cabinetry is attached by screws from the outside in, under the LD's skin, making it very difficult to remove.

Chris

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #6 – May 14, 2020, 04:14:55 pm

When I first got my LD, I also wanted to get rid of the barrel chairs, which are uncomfortable and put in table which mounted on a center post and two side seats with storage. After talking with Vince, he convinced me that this was a very difficult job. Apparently you have to disasemble 1/2 the wall to get to the mounting bolts. So I went ahead and reupholstered the chairs with new foam, etc and they are much more comfortable.

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #7 – May 14, 2020, 04:31:45 pm

Jodi - I would love to work with you on this - I have the same project planned for when we get a 31’. But no dog crate.
I sent you a private message,
Jane

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #8 – May 14, 2020, 05:50:20 pm

Removing the flip-up table is going to be project, it is screwed, stapled and glued together and into the wall. Expect to cut it apart in pieces and to have nothing useable or replaceable. It's a one-way trip. Be very sure that this is what you want.
Be careful not to damage the paneling surrounding the table, cover this area with a few layers of masking tape first.
The toughest part will be cutting the screws used to hold the table to the wall.
You will appreciate how well your rig is built after removing the table, it will not go down easily.

Once the table has been removed, the wall will need patching and painting.
Probably the quickest table would be a hollow core door, cut to size. Fill the door's hollow end, left by cutting, with a piece of solid wood, glued and screwed into place.
I would build a hollow table, as Ken described, and cover it with a Formica top that matches existing surfaces or the table to be removed. This would produce exactly what you want.
Plan how the bar stools and dog crates will be stored and secured before proceeding.

Larry

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #9 – May 14, 2020, 06:22:49 pm

"I am interested in removing the flip up living room table in our 2000 30IB."

As others have already said or implied, Good Luck with that!

Chris and I, and I presume others, went with the optional convertible dinette, one where the bench seats slide out to accommodate more people. I understand that, as this was not available to you, you are now faced with a difficult choice.

If it were me I think I would be inclined to leave the present table in place and think about adding two side tables to create an ensemble such as you imagine.

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #10 – May 14, 2020, 09:17:12 pm

Jodi,
as someone who lived for years with a Newfoundland's crate for a bedside table and built bed ramps for small dogs, my first question is 'how much does that crate weigh?'

I went out and measured my 31 IB. Kitchen counter to drivers seat is 80", and the table is 1" thick with a formica-type surface. I would guess it's 3/4" plywood. If you aren't committed to that particular crate, would you consider having one fabricated that would fit around the existing table? You could top it with plywood topped with formica/liminate table which fits right over the top of the existing table. It would come out 1" higher that the existing one. It would also preserve the table if you later change your mind.

Just a thought.

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #11 – May 15, 2020, 03:08:54 pm

Jodi, instead of removing the whole table/cabinet assembly, you might want to consider just building a counter on top of it. Here's how a friend and I tackled a similar situation.

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #12 – May 15, 2020, 06:31:44 pm

I like what Andy Baird did to his LD. With the 31ft model we could take out both barrel chairs and run a countertop from the back of the drivers seat to the wall next to the stovetop. Hmmm... that would also give you some additional room for preparing items to cook, etc. Oh well, I have too many projects to do first, but I wish Andy hadnt posted this.

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #13 – May 16, 2020, 11:58:26 am

Jodi,
This is what I did in my 2005 30' TB with same table and barrel chairs.
I removed both chairs added my own rocker and Zero's kennel behind driver's seat. I tossed in an additional lightweight folding chair, so the original table can still be used or tucked away when not in use.
Juanita
Ps.now I can't figure out how to add the picture I just took!
Thanks, Steve, for the tutorial! Pic now attached!
I should have done some photo touch up for backlight.

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #14 – May 16, 2020, 12:24:07 pm

Juanita, put the image on the device you are posting from, then when composing your post, go down to the box labeled 'selecting them' and click on it. Then select the image, and it will show in your post after you have posted.

Steve

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #15 – May 16, 2020, 01:18:51 pm

Quote from: Steve - May 16, 2020, 12:24:07 pm

Juanita, put the image on the device you are posting from, then when composing your post, go down to the box labeled 'selecting them' and click on it. Then select the image, and it will show in your post after you have posted.

Steve

And if you want to add more photos to an existing post, click on "More" (same area as 'Likes") and then "Modify" and scroll down to "selecting them" and follow Steve's instructions.

Chris

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #16 – May 17, 2020, 08:07:17 am

Thanks again to all the experienced LD peeps for their ideas, suggestions, experience.

Based on your suggestions and closer examination of the flip up table we have decided NOT to remove the table but to work around it.

Here is where we are so far... we decided to remove the table top and flip up portion at the piano hinges. These items will be preserved in a safe location so we can reinstall to the original layout. The barrel chairs will be kept safely in my spare bedroom at home for the same purpose.

I did get a smaller crate (28 wide, 30 high, 42 long) but it is still about 3/4" to wide for the space between the table and back of drivers seat. So the compromise was to get an XPen where we can make an "L" shaped crate around the table. The XPen weighs 22#. Panels are 30" tall and 24"wide. Will have to overlap or cut down the width of some panels. Height will be perfect for countertop height and still below window.

We made a mock up of the project with cardboard to see what the space would feel like when full of crate / counter top. I dont want it to feel claustrophobic and I needed to actually fill the space.

Due to suggestions above - we went out and found a scratch n dent hollow core door for $25. I think it weighs about 20#.

XPen should arrive tomorrow. Then onward with this project. The pic posted here with the door is before the breakfast bar notch is cut out. The actual counter top space will be like the cardboard mockup photo.

Thanks AGAIN for all your support!! As always, additional input or ideas are welcome!

I will try to attach some pictures of our progress.

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #17 – May 17, 2020, 09:03:05 am

Jodi,
I love your plans! I am super excited to see the completed project! Like you I saved anything I have removed, my barrel chairs are stored in my garage.
Juanita

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #18 – May 17, 2020, 11:17:47 am

Another update - I just wanted to make a shout out to another LD owner from one of the LD FaceBook groups. Nan has been helping me by taking comparison measurements and pictures of her dog crate modification. Thanks Nan!!

For those following along and interested in additional pics / ideas.. This is what she did...

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #19 – May 17, 2020, 11:43:44 am

Quote from: JodiH - May 17, 2020, 11:17:47 am

Another update - I just wanted to make a shout out to another LD owner from one of the LD FaceBook groups. Nan has been helping me by taking comparison measurements and pictures of her dog crate modification. Thanks Nan!!

For those following along and interested in additional pics / ideas.. This is what she did...

Woohoo thanks for sharing and would love to join the Facebook group you are referring too!
I have found a sense of community and support here that is hands down the best! Because my "other half" would rather fly, than drive anyplace! I so love being a part of this Lazy Daze Family!
Juanita

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #20 – May 17, 2020, 12:22:50 pm

Quote from: OpheliaElaineLD2005 - May 17, 2020, 11:43:44 am

I have found a sense of community and support here that is hands down the best! Because my "other half" would rather fly, than drive anyplace! I so love being a part of this Lazy Daze Family!

It is a special group we have here, many members are family to us. Can't for the day to see and travel with them again..

Does your other half still prefer flying?
It going to be a long time before most of us will feel comfortable flying.

Larry

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #21 – May 22, 2020, 11:13:00 am

The table is done!!! OMG! What a process. My dad is a SAINT! and has amazing rough carpentry skills and a myriad of tools to make this project easier! Thanks DAD!

So, as mentioned about... I took all of your suggestions and mashed them together to come up with this final result. I am going to try to link the pics to my album... we will see if this works.

https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=592

1. We left the original table in place. Removed the flip up portions (front and top) leaving the hinge attached the the removed part. (these parts will be saved in case we sell or decide we need the original configuration back).
2. Since the original table is so sturdy and attached to the rig - we used it as the "anchor" for the whole table set up. There is nothing else holding the table / crate to the RV except for the "retention box". We did not put ANY holes in the RV at all. Yeah!!
3. The crate I originally purchased did not fit and was not able to be modified easily. So, I bought an X Pen (exercise pen). these dont have a top or bottom like a 6 sided crate so we secured the plastic tray from the original crate to the bottom of the XPen with zip ties. the XPen is also secured at the the top with zip ties to eye hooks sunk into the table bottom.
4. My dad had extra click together laminate flooring from a house project that we cut to fit under the crate to protect the carpet.
5. The retention box was made to match the height of the crate. An old felt blanket was cut and attached at all contact points around the retention box to protect the original table. Retention box slides inside the top of original table with a tiny bit of wiggle room - just enough to get it in / out. Retention box has a USB "platform: attached to it. This is what we will use to attach the box to the bottom side of the door
6. The hollow core door was shortened about 1/2" to fit into space behind drivers seat to stove / counter top (80" - it was an 80" door) with enough room to felt all around so contact points between the new table top and walls are cushioned. It fits snug but not wedged into the space.
6. Cut out the space for the breakfast bar - used that piece of wood to extend the table to cover the extra space over crate. Cut out a small area behind the drivers seat so it can still recline a bit.
7. Reinforced all of the edges of hollow core door by making little hardwood inserts to just fit in the hollow section. Attached trim pieces to finish the edges and a quarter round for the backside of the table near the wall so stuff doesn't roll in the crack.
8. Stained everything with Walnut Minwax Stain - little darker than I had hoped for - then clear polyurethane.
9. Attached the table to the retention box platform.
10. Attached two wooden table legs to the side of table near the stove / counter for support. Did have to attached two - 2x4 squares stacked on top of each other to lengthen the leg.
11. Had to notch out little half circles on the quarter round to accommodate the shade tie downs.
12. The hollow core door had a precut door knob hole. We cut a hole in the side of the retention box so we could feed a power strip through to reach the outlet under that table to the left of the original cabinet. Used an insert to finish the hole.

Weight - always a concern.... The Xpen is 35#, the door is about 20#, the retention box is about 15#. We removed the two barrel chairs and the original table top and front. So I think we are about even-ish.

The crate comes out to far into the "hallway" to allow for couch to fully convert into queen bed. We wont use the couch in bed position anyway so that is a concession I was willing to make.

I am going to get some stacking stools like: KYRRE Stool, birch - IKEA to go under the breakfast bar area.

Crate that we didnt use but DID use the plastic tray: 42" iCrate Dog Crate | MidWest Homes For Pets
Exercise pen that we used. Did have to cut one panel and take hinges off and over lap two others. 30" MidWest Black Exercise Pen with Door | MidWest Homes For Pets
Hollow core door was scratch n dent from local hardware store.
Legs - Waddell 28" Round Taper Quick Mount Table Leg Model Number: 2528 Menards® SKU: 2177247
Brackets - Waddell Table Leg Straight Top PlateModel Number: 2751 Menards® SKU: 2177254
Cord management: Amazon.com: Cordaway 2" Desk Grommet, Adjustable Cord Cover, Cable Hole Wire...

Thank you all for your past and continued support!! I couldnt do this without you!! Or my dad!!

Jodi

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #22 – May 22, 2020, 11:44:56 am

Outstanding job! Well thought out and beautiful executed.

- John

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB

Reply #23 – May 22, 2020, 12:11:21 pm

A crate in a kennel. Great job Jodi. A dog like Lincoln deserves the best, and has it with you and a Lazydaze.
Another rig 'gone to the dogs'. I've never really understood why that expression is considered pejorative.

Happy travels
Joel

Re: Removing living room table - 2000 30IB - Installing Breakfast bar / dog crate

Reply #24 – May 22, 2020, 01:11:37 pm

"Another rig 'gone to the dogs'. I've never really understood why that expression is considered pejorative."
---
Uhhhh... you have met my dog, right?

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