Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

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Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

April 27, 2020, 09:58:34 am

Hi, folks -- I am getting ready to have an outlet installed at home for the RV (27 RK) -- of course, I know that 30 amp/120 is all I need -- but is there any good reason to install 50 amp instead? What other equipment, toys or tools might ever plug into this outlet?
In equipment decisions I usually "overkill" to be sure I have excellent capacity/reserve power -- but not sure this logic makes any sense in this case. My brother owns a 50 amp Vogue class A, but I put the likelihood of that unit ever being in my driveway at about 1%....unless I inherit it!! He thinks Michigan is the Yukon!

Thanks for helping me think this through.
Marcia

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #1 – April 27, 2020, 10:08:17 am

I"d let $$$$$ be the deciding factor.

I don't remember any time in the 30 plus years I've lived in my home when I need a 50 Amp connection. Most older homes (by older I mean 50 years plus) only have 80 to 100 amp service. My 100 year old home has been upgrade to 150 amp service but I know that is an exception. Sooooo when you B-I-L shows up he could use either an plain 110v 20 Amp adapter or just booomdock. BTW I agree places with snow are to be avoided at all costs...... <smile> look good only on post cards.

glen

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #2 – April 27, 2020, 10:27:29 am

I suggest making sure that the installer knows what to install; I've heard a few horror stories about 'electricians' who installed the wrong systems! The information at these links may help:

http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/30-amp%20Service.pdf

Expensive mistake when installing 30-amp RV outlet at home - RV Travel

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #3 – April 27, 2020, 10:42:42 am

I think installing a NEMA 14-50 could be worth the extra cost/hassle if your electrical panel can handle the load.

A NEMA 14-50 outlet is what we would call a RV 50 amp. It's also a pretty good choice for Electric Vehicle chargers. It can be used for an electric clothes dryer or a welder if you needed it.

A RV 30-amp is a TT-30. It's a rare outlet without much compatibility outside of the RV world.

If you think you'll never use the outlet for anything except your LazyDaze, go for the TT-30/RV 30 amp.

There are some middle options too (run wire for 50-amp, but configure it as TT-30), which a decent electrician can help you with.

There are so many variables on cost and value. A lot depends on how much capacity you have in your electrical panel and how far the wires will be run (wire gets expensive fast!).

Rich
'03 MB in NC

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #4 – April 27, 2020, 11:03:46 am

Marcia,

I don't think there's a good reason for a 50 amp. More expensive for the wire and other components, no benefit to your coach. Depending on where the receptacle will be located, a separate 20 amp household receptacle protected by its own breaker adjacent to the 30 amp for the coach might make more sense if the electrician's pulling wire anyway.

Bill

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #5 – April 27, 2020, 11:13:15 am

Even if you ever did have a 50 amp rig there at some point, you could still run it on 30 amps and have adequate power for your basic "driveway" needs. Frank

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #6 – April 27, 2020, 11:44:54 am

I agree with Frank, I would do 30 A if it were mine. Be advised that some electricians don't understand about RV receptacles. Friend had an electrician install a receptacle for his trailer, he installed 50 amp 240 volt with an RV receptacle. They found it before any damage was done. I asked who the electrician was, no answer.....

Jon

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #7 – April 27, 2020, 11:49:58 am

This is the main page for the myrv.us site the deals with electrical issues:

RV Electric

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #8 – April 27, 2020, 11:53:19 am

I'd recommend putting in a 30A service since a 50A service is a bigger and more expensive project. Even if family/friends visit with a 50A rig, they can usually get by running off 30A with an adapter. Even with our current 50A rig we have often been on a 30A service. It only gets to be an issue if it is hot enough to need more than one of our A/Cs. As Joan said, make sure that the installer knows that this is a TT-30 120V service (NOT a 240V three wire service for something like a welder!).

It a good idea to have a 50A->30A adapter for your LD though. We had a few times where the 30A socket in the CG post was in such bad shape shape that the 50A socket as a better choice.

Art

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #9 – April 27, 2020, 12:03:03 pm

The weekend we moved into our present home, I added a 30-amp outlet on the side of the garage for the LD.
It was a great move, we have had dozens of visitors over the years use it and we keep our LD plugged in at home, primarily to run the refrigerator and A/C. Solar takes care of the batteries.

Your home's electrical service needs to evaluated by an electrician to see if the extra capacity is available and what needs to be done the main electrical panel to install a 120-VC 30-amp circuit breaker. Our previous home required running larger wires to the garage and installing a sub-panel for the breaker.

Larry

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #10 – April 27, 2020, 12:04:11 pm

30 amp is enough. 50 is overkill and expensive.

Just MHO.

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #11 – April 27, 2020, 12:42:58 pm

Our place was built in 1985 when alternative forms of energy efficiency was in vogue. This included a heat-pump water heater on a 60A circuit (2 30A breakers ganged together). It worked marginally for the 6 months it was in warranty. PG&E plumbed for gas and I put in a new water heater. After getting the rig, I looked at the breakers and thought 'how hard could it be to wire an RV plug? After some contemplation, I whipped out my checkbook and called a competent electrician. Run the circuit to the other side of the garage and install a 30A PV plug-$395, having it done right, priceless.

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #12 – April 27, 2020, 12:56:03 pm

Similar to the one I use; not a 'puck'. 50A>30A adapter.

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Wiring/Mighty-Cord/A10-5030FHVP.html

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #13 – April 27, 2020, 12:58:03 pm

Hi Marcia. A lot depends on how you are going to put in the outlet. If you are having a trench dug for the wiring, and an electrician wire it with a 'campground' type pedestal; the extra cost to do it right is negligible. Have both 14-50 and TT-30 installed, so you don't need an adaptor for the LD. Like a campground, might as well have the 110VAC 20A outlet too.
   The odds are high that you will own an electric vehicle some day, and even higher that someone may visit you with an electric vehicle. They may need a recharge, and it is faster with a 220 VAC outlet. A friend has an electric car, and when their daughter visits, she often needs a recharge at the same time, so one of them ends up on the 20 A. 110VAC circuit. Their house, like mine came with a electric dryer outlet, and gas, so their dryer is gas, and the electric outlet was unused until the advent of electric cars. A simple adaptor turns my 220v outlet into two 110 VAC outlets, and my LD has a place to plug in.
   Make sure you do your own electrical check of the installed outlet the first time, just as you would do at a campground.
   My dad had an outlet installed for an RV at his house. I don't think he ever used it. 30 years later I was going to plug in, and I checked it by habit. It was 110VAC, but wired backwards! Hopefully the bonding in the LD would have shorted out the 110V AC hot line to ground and tripped the breaker in the house panel.    RonB

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #14 – April 27, 2020, 05:22:48 pm

You can buy an RV electrical box at Home Depot for $150. It has a 50a breaker and outlet, 30a breaker and outlet, and 20a gfci breaker and outlet. You wire it with 100a aluminum or copper wire from your panel. I am getting ready to put one in at one of my properties.

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #15 – April 27, 2020, 05:25:22 pm

You can buy an RV electrical box at Home Depot for $150. It has a 50a breaker and outlet, 30a breaker and outlet, and 20a gfci breaker and outlet. You wire it with 100a aluminum or copper wire from your panel. I am getting ready to put one in at one of my properties.

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #16 – April 27, 2020, 05:27:55 pm

If cost isn't an issue, go for the 50a. Cost isn't always an issue. When I had one done, we were already upgrading the electric panel, and the distance from the new panel to the needed outlet was less than 10 ft. No cost difference for such a simple project.

Really need a lot more info for a good recommendation.

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #17 – April 27, 2020, 05:51:50 pm

Quote from: parussky - April 27, 2020, 05:25:22 pm

You can buy an RV electrical box at Home Depot for $150. It has a 50a breaker and outlet, 30a breaker and outlet, and 20a gfci breaker and outlet. You wire it with 100a aluminum or copper wire from your panel.

Most people should not consider installing their own 30 or 50-amp service, especially a new panel. In most jurisdictions it requires a licensed electrician and pulling a building permit. The labor can easily exceed the cost of materials several times.
Not really understanding how houses are wired can lead to a dangerous, potential fatal installation, 95% of folks should leave this up to a professional.

If one is thinking about upgrading to a Class A or a DP, 50-amp service could useful, it offers no benefit to a Class C owner.
Many homes do not have the capacity for 50-amp service. 50-amps can provide over 10,000-watts of power compared to only around 3500-watts for a 30-amp service. 50-amp is a big jump.

Larry

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #18 – April 27, 2020, 07:33:02 pm

"You wire it with 100a aluminum or copper wire from your panel."

Aluminum wiring was popular in the Sixties, until houses started burning down. There were several reasons for this: inferior conductivity, low melting point, a tendency to creep, and most of all, the formation of a nonconductive oxide film (unlike copper). Here's a quotation from the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors:

The presence of single-strand aluminum wiring may void a home’s insurance policies. Inspectors may instruct their clients to talk with their insurance agents about whether the presence of aluminum wiring in their home is a hazard, a defect, and a problem that requires changes to their policy language. According to the InterNACHI Home Inspection Standards of Practice, a home inspector is required to report upon single-strand, solid conductor aluminum branch-circuit wiring, if observed by the home inspector.

I would never use aluminum wiring for anything.

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #19 – April 27, 2020, 08:00:13 pm

AL is verboten for branch circuit wiring, but AL is still very common and very allowed for main service feeds and subpanels.

Regardless, a 100Amp RV subpanel would require a permit and an electrician and probably a bigger main panel than 95% of people already have.

On the other hand, electricians have been installing 50 Amp outlets (also Electrical Vehicle charging outlets) left and right around my city. They know the parts and the prices and it's a very common job to estimate and perform.

Many would have to look up the details on a 30Amp RV outlet, as they don't see them very often.

I would at least ask about prices for both. You might be surprised.

Rich
'03 MB in NC

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #20 – April 27, 2020, 08:16:37 pm

Quote from: Andy Baird - April 27, 2020, 07:33:02 pm

I would never use aluminum wiring for anything.

Our home was built in 1967, in the middle of the Vietnam war when copper prices were sky high, with much of it being used by the military. Many homes around us were wired with aluminum and most have been rewired due to continued problems..
Before buying, I checked and found the house was wired with copper. I had worked on equipment wired with aluminum and it caused nothing but problems, with corrosion and loosening of connections being the big issues, even when using the special paste and rated fittings.

After moving in, we noticed the lights and TV flickering occasionally. Investigating, the house's main electrical panel had aluminum bus bars that were badly corroded away and sparking when under load. The power panel had to be rebuilt and every electrical circuit breaker replaced, all were badly damaged. Copper contacts and aluminum bus bars do not get along well.
Lucky for us, part of the buying process was a home buyer's insurance policy that paid for most of the work.

Larry

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #21 – April 28, 2020, 12:04:20 am

I agree with most here that say 30amp/120v is your best option. I had installed at my home almost 20 years ago and never regretted the decision.

Gary

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #22 – April 28, 2020, 07:21:43 pm

Marcia,
IMO it depends a lot on the wiring at your house.

As others have pointed out, if your main panel is low (e.g. 100 amp range), you are using half of that for a 50 amp RV plug (if they are really using the electricity). It will only be used when your/someone’s RV is using it, but that can have a big effect how you and the RV people are experiencing life (I can’t imagine a breaker flipping and having to check two “houses” to see who was using what when that created that.

But as Rich (and others) said, if you have the ability and the cost is not that high, running wire for a 50 amp might be good – for future use when who knows what will be common in our homes in 10-20 years. Especially if the install is easy (e.g. an outlet close to your panel and wiring path that is easy to get to, not buried in walls/celling, is cheaper than longer runs that are hard to wire).

If you are doing a 50 amp, I like Rich’s (and Bill’s) idea, run the wire for 50 amp but put in a 30 amp outlet (and a 20 amp outlet if you want that). The wire is there when you want it and the outlet and panel connections can be changed over time.

I also agree with Joan, for electricity many installers don’t know what they are doing. I have seen things that are downright scary and as others mentioned aluminum and copper don’t mix, yet some electrician installed that. To have the electricity working well, the two phases of the panel should be reasonably balanced (not so easy as it is hard to predict who will be doing what at the same time - this should be done at original panel installation planning time as well as when adding bigger items like your RV outlet). You need to know what all is pulling electricity from your panel – e.g. set up the RV breaker and other energy hog items on the same phase and they are now competing for a limited amount of electricity. Current electrical codes assume the household is running a lot of stuff (many electronics, many items in the kitchen, etc.) but older homes didn’t assume that (how many computers and TVs and high wattage electrical kitchen appliances were being used at once in the typical 1970 home?). So I suggest “interviewing” a good handful of electricians, making sure they have done many jobs like this, and asking for references from them of people who they did this same exact job for (and calling those references).

Make sure it will be permitted (write that into the contract and keep a significant amount of the payment until the permit is finalized) and when you get an inspector assigned tell them you are concerned that this job be done correctly and you want to make sure the contractor followed the current Code (and if possible be there when they are there doing the inspection).
The inspector will not necessarily catch errors, but I figure you have a better chance with two pairs of eyes looking at it.

Oh, and check your state records to confirm the electrician is licensed and bonded (insurance if they mess up and don’t pay for the damage) and there are no outstanding court cases (sometimes states list these with the license and bonding info and sometimes you have to check the courts yourself). Bonding only covers so much and if there is only $20,000 to claim and 3 people in front of you, likely you won’t see a cent. That is why I look for currently licensed and bonded companies for anything that could cause expensive repairs (electrical, plumbing, and structural).

Ok, now I am sure you have gotten more info than you ever thought you would from all these replies to help you make your decision.
Jane

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #23 – April 28, 2020, 08:22:06 pm

Great timing on this thread. I'm starting the installation process (with Bluebonnet Electric) for service in my mother's back yard tomorrow. I've been vacillating back and forth between 50 AMP (with the appropriate dog bone) or 30 AMP for my LD.

It's hot and humid already here in Texas and I want to run my AC at night without the generator.

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #24 – April 29, 2020, 03:46:46 pm

I thoroughly enjoy the technical expertise of the many forum members who share their knowledge with those of us who are much less savvy. However ( there’s always a “but”), herewith a plea for mercy when using terms of jargon. A brief accompanying explanation will be greatly appreciated. Not picking on Jane (really!), but I was befuddled by the use of “phase” in her excellent post. The first thing that popped into my head was some sort of waveform, but that made no sense in context. I had to bail out and google it to find that it meant one of the two incoming service lines to the panel. I never knew there were two. Learn something every day. 🤔. — Electrically challenged, Jon

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