Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batteries?

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Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batteries?

November 14, 2019, 01:28:47 pm

So with all the talk about battery life, I’m just curious. Will staying plugged into shore power 24/7 shorten or damage the coach batteries?

I have my ‘15 RB plugged in all the time. I’ve often wondered if this is causing my batteries to age prematurely.

Kent

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #1 – November 14, 2019, 01:57:56 pm

I’m very curious about this too. Mainly during the winter months my when solar isn’t getting quite as much sun. When I purchased mine, the previous owner told me not to leave it plugged in because it would boil the batteries. So how long is too long? I thought maybe leaving them plugged in during the winter would help prevent them from potentially freezing but have no idea if there is any logic/truth to that thought.

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #2 – November 14, 2019, 02:51:15 pm

A '15 rig should have a multi-stage charger in the converter which can be left plugged in all the time, IF you keep the electrolyte topped off - using a ProFill system is ideal. The '08 does NOT have such a converter, so best to NOT leave plugged in all the time - and still use a ProFill....

Steve

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #3 – November 14, 2019, 03:08:48 pm

There is a lot of misinformation out there about this subject. A lot of it comes from folks in the desert SW where in summer it is not a good idea to leave any converter on 24/7 as its float voltage is probably too high for the ambient temperature. As long as the ambient temperature is under 70 F. and the float voltage is under 13.8 volts (no matter what kind of converter you have) there should be no problem at all leaving it on 24/7. Measure the voltage at the battery after it is fully charged and with AC plugged in and if you measure 13.79 or less, have no fear this time of year, probably even in the desert SW. Always check the water level in each cell very couple of weeks, tho, as cells age they can use water differently, and you never want the level to reach the plates.

Rich - in the pacific NW where we don't have to worry even the summer

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #4 – November 14, 2019, 03:21:59 pm

Just a note....my previous post assumes wet cell batteries....all others have their own requirements.

Rich - Birch Bay, WA

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #5 – November 14, 2019, 04:02:51 pm

Thanks Steve and Rich. I was planning on leaving my rig plugged in over the winter here in Maryland which is typically anywhere from 20s-50s. I winterized it for the first time of my ownership (just bought it this past summer) this year and being my first winter with my LD I wasn't sure about lenght of plugging it in. I usually check my batteries every three weeks or so and top them off with my pro fill system. My batteries are at least eight years old and possibly the original batteries so I plan on getting some new Trojan T105s this spring since I'm sure I must have a dead cell by now.

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #6 – November 14, 2019, 04:13:03 pm

Our ‘15 came standard with AGM’s. Got back from breakfast at Curry and the voltage was still at 13.5 Honestly I was pleasantly surprised.

Thinking of parasitic drains I unplugged my 12 volt Blu-ray Player thinking that it may be the culprit. I have set it up to feed directly off the 12volt outlet near the entertainment center. If the voltage remains at normal levels, perhaps my worries are over.

Still can’t wait to head to AM Solar for my Christmas In July.

Kent

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #7 – November 14, 2019, 04:13:51 pm

And here is another perspective:
Our tug has a bank of 4 Lifeline AGM 6 volts, the same type as the Lazy Daze. Last summer, they all got tired and I had to replace them after only five years. I thought this was premature (and really expensive) and called the Lifeline Tech support. When we are at the dock, the tug is always plugged into dock power.
The tech at Lifeline told me that the batteries have a limited number of charge cycles. Since the tug has several systems on when at the dock (refrigerator, propane sensor, etc), there is a constant 12v current draw and the batteries are then recharged to full. According to the tech, these recharge events count against the charge cycles. He said that he gets complaints from RVers and boat owners that their batteries fail prematurely based on their ages, but he says they are failing at the prescribed time based on the charge cycles.
He recommended that we leave the tug in the slip with everything turned off (except for the automatic bilge pumps, which draw no current when not activated) and not connected to shore power. He said to make sure to recharge the batteries when they drop some voltage over time and this will significantly extend their lives.

I suspect that the same is true for the Lazy Daze, since they are the same batteries. Unfortunately, the Lazy Daze might need a good battery disconnect or the ground pulled off to keep the batteries from seeing a parasitic draw during storage.

What do our battery experts here think of this?

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #8 – November 14, 2019, 04:42:08 pm

Quote from: Rich Gort - November 14, 2019, 03:08:48 pm

There is a lot of misinformation out there about this subject. A lot of it comes from folks in the desert SW where in summer it is not a good idea to leave any converter on 24/7 as its float voltage is probably too high for the ambient temperature. As long as the ambient temperature is under 70 F. and the float voltage is under 13.8 volts (no matter what kind of converter you have) there should be no problem at all leaving it on 24/7. Measure the voltage at the battery after it is fully charged and with AC plugged in and if you measure 13.79 or less, have no fear this time of year, probably even in the desert SW. Always check the water level in each cell very couple of weeks, tho, as cells age they can use water differently, and you never want the level to reach the plates.

Rich - in the pacific NW where we don't have to worry even the summer

Rich, for 16 years I kept my '02 under canopy and plugged in year round when I was not using it. I put the 22B solar controller on "shore power". Here in the Denver area, over that time period, temp extremes were from -15 to 100*. The converter was on, of course, but not running much in storage. Perhaps I was lucky, but I never had any problems.

Chris

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #9 – November 14, 2019, 05:00:20 pm

Chris,
Like you, I keep my RV (my LD was a 2000 with the single stage charger) plugged in 24/7 whenever I'm not using her. That is especially important in winter when I keep a small electric heater in to keep the inside above freezing and a little dryer than it would be otherwise with all our winter rain here in the Pacific NW. In Denver, with the weather changes you get (just remembering when our daughter attended UC in Boulder) the hot temps probably never stayed around long enough for you to worry. My batteries lasted over 9 years, but we have to remember that newer rigs have newer technology batteries, of which I know very little. I'm sticking with the good old wet cells for the rest of my RVing days.

Rich - Birch Bay, WA

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #10 – November 14, 2019, 05:38:04 pm

"...the previous owner told me not to leave it plugged in because it would boil the batteries."

That 'May' be true, but only if the charge voltage is too high.

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #11 – November 14, 2019, 05:51:11 pm

"... for 16 years I kept my '02 under canopy and plugged in year round when I was not using it."

Ditto on what Chris said... my '04 30'IB has been sitting in my side yard connected to a 30a circuit from my house for nearly 16 years (except when we are out on the road). During this time I've had both the wet cell Trojans and more recently the GPL 4CT LifeLine AGMs. I have not encountered any issues that could be blamed on being plugged in 24/7/365.

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #12 – November 14, 2019, 08:52:15 pm

To give me more peace of mind I upgraded the 7300 Parallax in my 2003 TK with a three stage unit from:

Upgrade Kits for Magnetek/Parallax

I first heard of Best Converter when I replaced an even more ancient 6300 Parallax converter that was in a '92 class B. I've been very happy with Best Converter's service.

What converter does LD use now days?

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #13 – November 15, 2019, 02:05:16 pm

Roadrunner...I think you mentioned you have a 2008 LD. That probably was equipped with a 3 stage charger. If I had a 3 or 4 stage charger (and if it didn't do this automagically), I would turn it off once a month or so, let the batteries drain a little, and then let the charger do its thing, which I assume would include running the voltage up to 14.5 V or so for a fairly short time to better condition the batteries. This is again, assuming wet cells, and with this exception, doesn't change my post about leaving it on 24/7 under most conditions.

Rich - member of the alumni - post 2000MB - Birch Bay, WA

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #14 – November 15, 2019, 03:12:29 pm

Quote from: Rich Gort - November 15, 2019, 02:05:16 pm

Roadrunner...I think you mentioned you have a 2008 LD. That probably was equipped with a 3 stage charger. If I had a 3 or 4 stage charger (and if it didn't do this automagically), I would turn it off once a month or so, let the batteries drain a little, and then let the charger do its thing, which I assume would include running the voltage up to 14.5 V or so for a fairly short time to better condition the batteries. This is again, assuming wet cells, and with this exception, doesn't change my post about leaving it on 24/7 under most conditions.

Rich - member of the alumni - post 2000MB - Birch Bay, WA

Thanks Rich. Yes, I have the factory pair of Trojan T105s in my rig. I have a rear bath...is the charger accessible to see what model/make it is? I haven't looked into its location as of yet. Been topping off my batteries about once a month even though they have hardly needed it using the Pro fill system.

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #15 – November 15, 2019, 06:44:48 pm

Blueox25 - exceeding cycles which creates battery problems makes sense to me. I have had some concern about this but I have seen that our smart charger doesn't charge the battery regularly when on shore power. However, I would bet while on shore power it charges at times for Stage 3 (STORAGE Mode) and Stage 4 (EQUALIZATION Mode).
It is supposed to be smart enough to not overcharge/undercharge and therefore extend battery life but I would love to see the historical data that shows this.

I suggest for anyone who really wants to know how best to get their battery to stay good as long as possible to check with the battery manufacturer as they can tell you the full information.
I would also check with the charger manufacturers (main one and solar) and know what to ask to get them to say what they are not telling you.

Having a smart charger that knows to not charge batteries when they are full (does a trickle charge only when needed), can be set to the exact charging levels your battery manufacturer says are best, uses battery temperature to help determine when to charge or not, etc. will help your batteries last longer. However, the smarter the charger the more expensive, so each person needs to weigh out costs (smarter charger vs batteries more often).

I would love something that tracks and keeps historical data on what the charger and battery are doing (e.g. temps, voltage, when charges are done - what voltage level and for how long). That with experimentation would be the only real way to know what works and what doesn't (for each specific battery/charger combo).
While that information is often available you have to go look at it all the time time so much more effort is needed to gather the information and figure out patterns. I have not yet seen one that tracks and keeps historical data, but I expect we will see that in the next 5 years or so.

Jane

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #16 – November 16, 2019, 09:40:12 am

Quote from: Jane and Scott - November 15, 2019, 06:44:48 pm

I would love something that tracks and keeps historical data on what the charger and battery are doing (e.g. temps, voltage, when charges are done - what voltage level and for how long). That with experimentation would be the only real way to know what works and what doesn't (for each specific battery/charger combo).
While that information is often available you have to go look at it all the time time so much more effort is needed to gather the information and figure out patterns. I have not yet seen one that tracks and keeps historical data, but I expect we will see that in the next 5 years or so.

Jane

Check out Victron
SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 & 100/50 - Victron Energy

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #17 – November 16, 2019, 01:27:37 pm

We park our 98 ~ MB in a hanger when we are not using it and we plug it in 24/7 and throw off the circuit breaker for the charger. We plug a 12v battery maintainer into the battery system. We leave the refrigerator on 110v and its cooling fans which are 12v, the propain detector 12v and our bluesky solar controller which is not contributing power but does draw a little. I also check the water levels on our batteries once every two weeks. When there is a chance of freezing temperatures on Vashon in the Puget sound I set up 3 - 250 watt heaters on a timer and each one set in a strategic place, the kitchen, bathroom and pull a drawer to the vanity to get heat to the hot water heater. We keep our 98 ~ MB full of water, propain and gas and is ready to go at a moments notice or be a "lifeboat" if necessary. When we are leaving for an extended period of time, three months or more we will shut down all the systems, pull the fuse on the propain detector, shut off the refrigerator and cooling fans, pull the added fuse to the bluesky and plug in the battery maintainer. This has worked with this LD and our itaska which we have had since the 80s.

Karen~Liam
98 ~ MB
NinA

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #18 – November 16, 2019, 07:00:20 pm

Quote from: colddog - November 16, 2019, 09:40:12 am

Check out Victron
SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 & 100/50 - Victron Energy

Glen, Thanks. I checked this out. It looks like the BMV 712 will connect to the internet and then have access to the data with the program (with an $80 item, maybe more since I am not near one of their gateways), but it was not clear that I would be seeing additional info without a solar charger (their BMV 712 demo was not working). I sent an email to the tech guys to confirm what I would see before throwing money at it. Might be better to wait till we install solar and check it out then.

Victron does seem to be at the head of the pack for getting the best use out of your batteries.
Jane

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #19 – November 16, 2019, 11:33:53 pm

It apparently depends on our systems and our experiences. In general manufacturers recommend flooded lead acid batteries be fully charged and disconnected in storage.
i purchased both of my rigs the batteries were shot. Both rigs had the old Magnatek 6300 single stage chargers set to 13.8 volts with a rated limit of 3 amps and fused limit of 10 amps. One set must have died from lack of charge as the charger diodes had failed(from Wisconson). The other set had been on shore power for three years and had boiled dry(from San Diego). I installed split breaker in both rigs and separated the converter from the outlets. Replaced the batteries. I stored them fully charged and disconnected. Dead cells Freeze and crack cases in cold weather. Cracked cases thaw and spill weak acid. I turn off the converter while on shore power in storage. I disconnect the house batteries and solar system when i send it for chassis repairs as my rigs have been left indoors on the service racks for months at a time.

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #20 – November 18, 2019, 03:48:26 pm

Okay, I’ve been charging the OLD and FAILING AGMs in our ‘15 RB twice a day while here in Yosemite. Within 5-6 hours they have drained into the “Danger Zone”

Solar is working fine when the sun sneaks through the trees in camp and sends a charge to the coach batteries as indicated by the Blue Sky panel.

Knowing that the fridge and propane detector rely on the coach batteries, I am not confident that the discharged AGMs will continue to provide adequate power.

With our upcoming Solar Upgrade, I am hesitant on spending the money on a new set of lifeline AGMs and would prefer to drop in two 6 volt Costco batteries to get us through until July.

Is it a simple matter of swapping out the AGMs for the 6 volt golf cart batteries or will I need to change any settings in the Blue Sky Solar controller?

Sure wish I’d have swapped them out before this journey. My DW deserves a better holiday.

Thanks,

Kent

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #21 – November 18, 2019, 04:15:38 pm

Kent your our #LazyDazeTopGun you know what to do! I’ll be your wingman anytime 🥳🐯

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #22 – November 18, 2019, 04:30:41 pm

Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - November 18, 2019, 03:48:26 pm

Okay, I’ve been charging the OLD and FAILING AGMs in our ‘15 RB twice a day while here in Yosemite. Within 5-6 hours they have drained into the “Danger Zone”

With our upcoming Solar Upgrade, I am hesitant on spending the money on a new set of lifeline AGMs and would prefer to drop in two 6 volt Costco batteries to get us through until July.
Is it a simple matter of swapping out the AGMs for the 6 volt golf cart batteries or will I need to change any settings in the Blue Sky Solar controller?

For the short term, a set of Costco batteries would be your best, least expensive choice. I wouldn't worry about the Blue Sky.
Too bad it's such a long drive to Merced to pick up a new pair. Day trip?

Larry

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #23 – November 18, 2019, 04:45:14 pm

Larry,

We are in the Valley till Thursday am so I’ll wait till I get back home.

Shouldn’t be a problem till then right? What could possibly go wrong?

Thanks,

Kent

Re: Will 24/7 Shore Power Damage Batts?

Reply #24 – November 18, 2019, 06:20:28 pm

"Okay, I've been charging the OLD and FAILING AGMs in our '15 RB twice a day while here in Yosemite."

Kent

Your "Failing AGMs" may not be the problem. Recently my AGMs were failing to take a charge. A check in at my local RV Hospital revealed that there was corrosion on the ground leads to the batteries. Can't elaborate, LazyBones2 was in charge that day.

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