Do I need to cover an extension cord?

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Do I need to cover an extension cord?

July 27, 2019, 05:26:39 pm

I have an 89 Lazy Daze with the pull out power cord. On my current spot, the cord is not long enough so I got a heavy duty 30 amp cord to plug it into. However, I’m thinking it’s probably smart to put the two connected cords in a dry spot where it won’t get rained on. Is this okay? I just put it under my RV.

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #1 – July 27, 2019, 06:25:31 pm

Because standing water is the main threat on the ground, I would use an S hook or metal coat hanger to suspend the connection.

Steve

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #2 – July 27, 2019, 06:37:42 pm

Steve, that's a great idea!

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #3 – July 27, 2019, 09:26:23 pm

Well, I couldn't find anything to hang an S-hook. So for that time being, I have it lifted off the ground, sitting on a block inside a plastic container that has holes for the cord to keep it dry and sitting just tucked up under the tire to keep water from dripping on it.

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #4 – July 27, 2019, 10:41:12 pm

You could also wrap a plastic garbage bag around the connection and seal the ends with duct tape.

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #5 – July 27, 2019, 11:36:43 pm

I am going to add my 2 cents.

There are electrical codes on how much air space electricity needs around it and rules for boxes. The reason these codes come about is when problems happened doing it the old (previous) way.

Heat comes from the wires and so does electricity (some leaks out of that insulated wire - it causes problems when low voltage signal wires are too close to 120v and electricity from the 120v messes up the signal on things like cable/cat5e lines). How much heat/electricity depends on what your devices are pulling down that line.
So I would be leery of wrapping a wire with anything not rated for electricity.

Boxes should be rated for electricity and for how much electricity could be running through it.
Home Depot has outdoor rated metal electrical boxes - you can add slits down one side to accommodate the cords so you can drop the pieces down the side and still be able to put the lid on - grommets will protect the wires from being cut by the metal & you could add a slit to them also.
An example is: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-6-in-x-6-in-x-4-in-Gray-PVC-Junction-Box-Case-of-3-E987RR/202206112

I might not go to full efforts to make this exactly meet code as you want it portable (be able to move around), but this will help a lot to help keep it dry and not have problems with melting/catching on fire your box/whatever you are covering it with).
That would be a better long term solution if you see yourself using this setup regularly.

Jane

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #6 – July 28, 2019, 12:58:45 am

If you went Jane's route above, you could plug the two ends of the extension cord together in the box and store it that way. One less loose item to become one with clutter.

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #7 – July 28, 2019, 03:00:04 am

Hi Jacob. At home, I run an extension cord 10 gauge like you have, to the motor home in my driveway. I have a 1 foot adapter 30 Amp 3 wire to regular 15 amp, to plug into my extension cord. This whole assembly I just push under the motorhome to keep rain (a rare thing here) out of the connection area. Other parts of the cord are water proof. A plastic bag, and a board to elevate the connections out of puddles could be used for longer term residence.
Heavy currents can induce noise into nearby signal wires, but shielding isn't necessary. Just a few inches separation. If you expect lightning, I would unplug and stow your shore wire. Some shore power pedestals have GFCI protection, and your rig should have GFCI protection on your outlets. (But not the microwave or A/C.)
I haven't had any problems, but YMMV. RonB

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #8 – July 28, 2019, 05:50:39 am

Ron & Jacob, Our 89 TK didn't have any GFCI in it anywhere (added into later models I am guessing, our entire power center was upgraded in 1990 also). A main GFCI breaker is a nice thing to have in your power center, otherwise the other breakers being GFIC (especially outlets) is nice.

Ron, When I worked on a house doing a huge data cable upgrade, the electric code stated something like 2' away from electrical wires. That was very difficult in our configuration so I pushed the manufacturer and they admitted we could get as close to about 15" but not closer than that and all wires cross at 90 degrees (they had done testing and said problems showed up at 12"). Since walls and ceilings where the cable was being laid were being closed up, we didn't want to push things and have to tear something up if there turned out to be a trouble area. We were not close to high voltage - it was basic 20 amp 120 V.
But as you say, people's mileage may vary.

Jacob, I was more concerned about the type of box you used - if you had the connection parts put into a paper or wood box .... Having it open but under the RV and elevated so it was protected fairly well from the elements, IMHO, would be better than in a box that wasn't metal.

Ron, I have wondered if the old '89 outside electrical cables were weatherproof. I know they are not horrible as mine has been out in the rain, but having it lay in a puddle concerns me. It feels like old soft rubber (nothing like current materials). And the protective sheathing is old after all.... I would feel better knowing the specs, or even better if I replaced it , then I wouldn't worry about it.

Jane

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #9 – July 28, 2019, 11:42:14 am

Hi Jane. The old housing specs, I seem to remember 18" was to keep inductive spikes from propagating into sensitive wiring, especially speakers, and other analog sources. That is why the 90 degree crossing item. I'd be more worried about lightning strikes traveling and arcing through insulation. Close proximity wires traveling side by side would be the worst choice. Also if something were to penetrate the wall, car crashes, tree falls and such like you don't want to energize your low power things with 220 VAC.
Your shore power cable, an extension cord, is composed of three individual 10 ga. stranded copper wires insulated with neoprene (rubber) (sometimes vinyl) wrapped along with sisal (or paper) strands to give it some bulk to be a round cross section and then covered with pretty thick vinyl on the outside. After a bit of ageing and sunlight cracks can develop. Sitting in a water puddle could let water in to soak the paper, and travel past the crack, but the individual wires are still waterproof. My main cable is attached inside its storage compartment, and gets little weather exposure. If I'm expecting rain, I can relocate my connections inside the compartment, but I have had bad connections get hot enough to melt the ends, so I prefer that happen outside.
After 19 years I replaced the motorhome's plug end, https://www.homedepot.com/p/Camco-RV-PowerGrip-30-Amp-Replacement-Plug-55245/207193295 and vowed never to use the 'hockey puck' type adaptor. The Dogbone type is better, since the connections are separated. dogbone type rv adaptor plug - Google Search
If you decide to replace your cable, you could go to a Marinco type. A waterproof outside connector plate that Lazy Daze started using in 2002. But then you have to find a place to store your cord when you aren't using it. RonB

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #10 – July 28, 2019, 11:20:30 pm

Ron, we have no cracks, just obviously used soft rubber.

Yup, high voltage messes up low voltage signals - would interfere with data over internet usage. It thought that shielding kept all the electricity inside, so I was surprised to learn it leaked out and that far.

I wish the dogbones came with protective housing, the part that plugs into the shore power is protected by that metal box, but the other end is bare exposed to rain, etc. I am looking at rigging up something with lightweight outdoor rated boxes.
Jane

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #11 – July 29, 2019, 12:36:53 am

"I thought that shielding kept all the electricity inside, so I was surprised to learn it leaked out and that far."

Electricity stays inside. Magnetic fields don't. Any wire carrying electricity sets up a magnetic field around itself. And any wire with a magnetic field nearby will generate electricity within itself. In short, when you have two wires near each other--especially if they're parallel--you effectively have a transformer.

These effects are normally weak for single wires--that's why transformers have coils with hundreds of turns of wire, to increase the effect--but modern electronics can be very sensitive. If one wire is carrying a fair amount of power, it can induce currents in the adjacent wire(s). A 15 amp AC household circuit can induce 60-Hertz signals in a data cable that carries low-level signals.

Twisting the pairs of wires can help. Shielding the wires can help. Running the wires at right angles to each other can help. But keeping them separated is best of all. The electromagnetic field, and hence the induced-current effect, falls off rapidly as separation distance increases.

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #12 – July 29, 2019, 12:31:34 pm

In the Home Theatre world, it is recommended to isolate the audio & video cables from all power cords due to the interference the power cords have on audio/video signals.

It is also recommended that all power cords remain parallel and separated from one another and not coiled. I think this has to do with increased interference created by the coil. I believe this recommendation is also given for RV power cords while connected to power pedestals. I believe this recommendation is related to the potential for increased heat build up.

Electrical energy can be a mysterious entity. Shocking!

Kent

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #13 – July 29, 2019, 12:37:02 pm

Just a crazy thought . . . If you make coils with the excess electrical cord, you can make a really cool electro-magnet. Comes in handy if you want to do a little magnetic particle testing!

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #14 – July 29, 2019, 01:51:26 pm

I once rented a 20A electric jackhammer. The company explicitly told me 'do not let the extension cord coil in use'. The interference would be enough to burn out jackhammer and I'd have to buy the replacement. Since then, I have always laid the cord out uncoiled. Maybe superstition but it can't hurt.
joel

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #15 – July 29, 2019, 06:17:55 pm

Quote from: joel wiley - July 29, 2019, 01:51:26 pm

I once rented a 20A electric jackhammer. The company explicitly told me 'do not let the extension cord coil in use'. The interference would be enough to burn out jackhammer and I'd have to buy the replacement. Since then, I have always laid the cord out uncoiled. Maybe superstition but it can't hurt.
joel

The coil or turn effect doesn't create or increase voltage or amp just changes it form. I.E. if a transformer has 100 volts on one side with 50 amp it will transform to 5000 volts but drop the amps. Power will remain the same or maybe a bit of lose. (those numbers are just examples not real.

For a more accurate and in-depth explanation
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transformer/transformer-basics.html

glen

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #16 – July 29, 2019, 06:32:21 pm

"The company explicitly told me 'do not let the extension cord coil in use'. The interference would be enough to burn out jackhammer and I'd have to buy the replacement."

It seems very unlikely that a jackhammer would be susceptible to electromagnetic interference. More likely the potential issue with coiling the cord would be the same as with an RV shore power cord in summer: heat buildup. Hot wire has higher resistance. Higher resistance means more voltage drop. Low voltage can damage an RV's air conditioner, and maybe it could damage a jackhammer. Just my guess.

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #17 – July 29, 2019, 06:44:02 pm

"if a transformer has 100 volts on one side with 50 amp it will transform to 5000 volts but drop the amps."

Depends on the ratio of turns (360° wraps) of wire in the transformer's "primary" and "secondary" windings. Let's take the example you mentioned. To get from 100 volts to 5,000 volts, for each turn in the primary you'd need 50 turns in the secondary. With 50 amps at 100 volts going in, you'd have 5,000 volts (100 volts times 50:1 turns ratio) at 1 amp (50 amps divided by 50:1 ratio) coming out... minus resistive losses.

We're probably getting too technical here. ;-)

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #18 – July 29, 2019, 06:46:10 pm

"In the Home Theatre world, it is recommended to isolate the audio & video cables from all power cords due to the interference the power cords have on audio/video signals. "

Right. If 60 hertz (60 cycles per second) hum from the power cords contaminates the audio or video signals, you can get a very annoying low-frequency hum in the audio and/or wavering distortion in the video.

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #19 – July 29, 2019, 07:47:32 pm

Heat buildup is the big concern of having wires inside a box not rated for it's use (correct box material and the correct size box for the potential voltage running through it). Boxes have specs saying ok for X number of wires/switches/outlets. Wire nuts are the same (e.g. so many wires of X size can safely go into it).
Coiling means you have more potential heat buildup in that small area (more wires with current traveling thru the space).

Well the heat buildup concdern and if a wire gets loose or there is a hot screw (has electricity to it, not uncommon in older fixtures) - and this touches the box side, it could start a fire.

Electrical codes are funny.... While you can do anything if you prove (with calculations) that the heat buildup is in an acceptable range for the space, the calculations are complex and from my experience you would have difficulty finding an electrical inspector (permit process) that could double check your numbers.
I am saying this as the plumbing permit guys could not/would not review my complex supply line calculations for a large house that needed commercial sized entry pipes. They asked me to get a mechanical engineer certification (since our job didn't fit the nice tables for an easy double check), but the only one I found willing to do the calculations did them all wrong (used wrong internal diameters - for copper, not the pex manufacture specs I gave him - no, he didn't get paid for his unusable work). I won the permit supervisor over and he accepted my calculations. So I don't expect any difference from the electrical permit guys (a breed into themselves and different than other inspectors).

While electrical boxes, wire nuts, etc. are all nicely rated, electrical codes have some funny rules in the field like no more than 3 wires in any hole (irregardless of voltage going thru the wires or size of the hold) - prove the calculations if you want to do something different. This makes no sense to me at all, it could be three 50 amp wires or three 15 amp wires all in a hole the same size and the field guys would be ok with that.
I like plumbing codes better - they make more sense (e.g. long right elbow if the waste water will flow horizontal, regular right elbow is ok if the water will flow vertical - makes sense, long turn if water is slowing down, sharper turn if water is speeding up).

Jane

Re: Do I need to cover an extension cord?

Reply #20 – July 29, 2019, 08:47:04 pm

I think in the case of the jackhammer, it may have been designed for a 30 amp circuit but few renters have such a circuit.
So they tried running it on a 20A marginal circuit. It got the job done.

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