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Topic: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector (Read 1032 times) previous topic - next topic
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Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Hi,

My name is Bill Moss and my wife is JoAnn. We are long time readers of this forum and this is our first post. We ordered a 2019 MB in May, 2018, and received The Call yesterday for a June 28th pickup. Before I ask my question, I’ll give your our background information.  In November, 2002, we took delivery of a new 2002 MB. Ordering a motorhome from Ed Newton was quite an experience as he tried his best to talk us out of options like a second solar panel and an automatic satellite dish.

We then quit our jobs (a fairly easy decision because we have no children), sold our home, and spent the next eighteen months full-timing around the country until our budget ran out, which was our plan. We sold the MB to a couple from California (we lived in Connecticut at the time), and we both returned to our previous jobs. We had an incredible time for those eighteen months and referred to it as our practice retirement.

Now we are both retired and live in Venice, Florida and will be making a road trip to California for the pickup and then will be touring the country until September/October to avoid the Florida heat and humidity. This time we’ll be towing a car and I had read a post from David Philbrick a while back and he was using the towing equipment that we want to use. I contacted David and we drove over to Sebring, FL to see his 2017 MB and meet his wife Marie who were both wonderful people and answered many of our questions.

Now to my question. I'm planning to have a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge protector installed and my question is where, where, and where.

Where #1 is where in the motorhome. I searched the archives and found one comment "the compartment underneath the bottom of the sink cabinet".

Where #2 is where to mount the remote display.

Where #3 (probably the most important one) is where do I get the work done ? We are taking ownership in Las Vegas so I made an appointment with Camping World for the installation, but after reading the recent posts about CW, I'm not sure if I should look for someone else. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your comments and we're looking forward to meeting some of the great people who's posts we're been reading for years.

Bill and JoAnn.

2019 MB and 2010 Honda Fit
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #1 –
The surge protector should be located inside, under the kitchen cabinet, right next to the Power Center, it connects directly to the Power Center.
The easiest place to locate the remote fob is down low, on the same wall as the Power Center.
Getting the fob's cable to one of the upper cabinets is a difficult and long wiring run.

Sorry, I have no suggestions on an installer.
Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #2 –
We've had work done at Findlay RV in Las Vegas:

4530 Boulder Hwy
Las Vegas NV 89121
702-435-2500
Linda Hylton
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #3 –
You might want to call Progressive Industries and see if they have a suggestion for an installer in Las Vegas or nearby:

Contact Progressive Industries

Someone on the board might offer a suggestion of an installer in that area, and you could also look up reviews for RV electrical services in/around Las Vegas, and also post your query on other RV message boards.

Others may offer differing opinions, but I suggest avoiding Camping World for any service.

YMMV, as always.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #4 –
You might also try this site for suggestions:

http://rvservicereviews.com/StateList.asp?state=NV

I suggest noting the date of the review and the type of work that was done.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #5 –
Welcome to the LD neighborhood and congrats on your new and wonderful RV.   I’m certain you couldn’t find a better Class C or a more helpful Forum.   Please consider posting pics of your new Rig and update the Forum on your adventure. 
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #6 –
FWIW, posting some photos of our recent EMS-HW30C install in our 2014 Mid-Bath.  We performed the install ourselves because we have the time and the needed level of expertise.

Note that the EMS-HW30C is installed after the ATS (automatic transfer switch).  It's hard to see in the photos, but we reinforced the wall that the EMS is mounted on with a piece of 3/8 inch plywood (glued and screwed).  Also, routing of the 10 gauge electrical wires should be done carefully so as not to inhibit or restrict removal of the Power Center when necessary.
Jim & Sue
Formerly owned: 2011 27' MB, Sidra
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #7 –
Jim and Sue, I applaud adding the 3/8" plywood to provide a sound mounting surface.  The installation looks good.  I have one question - can you readily remove the EMS to torque the screws for the connections?  They should be retorqued the same as the breaker box and ATS connections.

Bill and JoAnn, if you want to take on the task of installation yourselves and your travels this summer will bring you to the Teton area and you have the EMS with you, I would be happy to look over your shoulders and provide support as you do the work.  You would need a piece of 3/8" plywood.  I have glue and wood screws.  You would need #10 gauge cable with black, white and green or black, white and bare wires.  To have enough slack so you can unscrew the EMS and pull it out to re-torque the screws, you probably should have at least 6 feet of the wire, allowing for 3' from the ATS to the EMS and 3' from the EMS to the breaker panel.

If you want to do a simpler wiring run, you would install the EMS between the shore line and the ATS.  You would then only need about 3' of cable, but the EMS would not be handling the generator power, just shore power.

Jim and Sue, would that cover them?  Also, how did you route the cable that is no longer going from the ATS into the breaker panel?  Did you put in a new hole and strain relief?

Ken F in WY
'08 MB
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #8 –
"You would then only need about 3' of cable, but the EMS would not be handling the generator power, just shore power."
----
One advantage of the hardwired EMS over the portable unit is that the hardwired version protects from "dirty" generator power; just an opinion, but if I were wiring in the PI EMS, I'd go for the "longer wires".  ;)

YMMV, of course.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Picking up a new MB on June 28th. (And one question)
Reply #9 –
Quote from: Joan  - 
"You would then only need about 3' of cable, but the EMS would not be handling the generator power, just shore power."
----
One advantage of the hardwired EMS over the portable unit is that the hardwired version protects from "dirty" generator power; just an opinion, but if I were wiring in the PI EMS, I'd go for the "longer wires".  ;)

And the difference in cost would be about three dollars, I don't find it much more difficult to wire them so both shore and generator power are protected. In some situations, it's easier.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #10 –
Bill and JoAnn-

I have a few pictures at this link showing my EMS installation into a 1998 mid-bath. EMS went where the electrical cord used to store, and the display went on the inside of the under-sink door, along with the display for the Trimetric battery monitor. This was part of an effort to eliminate the indoor cord storage.

The arrangement of "stuff" under your mid-bath's sink might be different.

Mark H.
Former owner, 31-foot gas Class A
Former owner, 1997-8 mid-bath
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #11 –
Below are responses to Ken’s questions.

Can the PI EMS be readily (quickly and easily) removed?  Not quickly and easily, no.  But it can be serviced, either by dismounting the box or opening it in-place.  Although the Power Center is easily removed, servicing other items in that small, awkward space is a trial.  And I agree that it is important to periodically check and re-torque the connections in the Power Center, ATS, and EMS, a task that is dangerous if the correct procedure is not followed (see Larry's contribution to this thread: Total Loss of 12 Volt Power).  Placing the PI EMS where I did does not make this maintenance task faster or easier.

Ken’s list of materials, plus two cable clamps (for strain relief), is the sum of the materials we used.  Instead of using separate 10-gauge wires, we used NM (non-metalic) Romex (orange in photos included in my earlier post).  I cut the lengths a foot longer than needed and shortened them to the optimal length as the installation progressed.

How did we route the output-side of the PI EMS? The original wiring from the ATS to the breaker panel was removed; it uses a direct path between the two boxes that is not optimal or even viable for the output-side of the PI EMS.  Instead, PI EMS output wiring is routed through an existing, unused knockout in the back of the breaker panel.  The placement is appropriate, simple, and clean. 

Note that 10-gauge wire is “big.”  Working with it is a bit of a wrestling match.  Precisely positioning the output-side wiring in the breaker box to get a professional result requires good pliers and a patient, go-slow approach.

While there is nothing particularly complicated about the install, as noted by other commenters, there are abundant reasons for many LD owners to engage a qualified, experienced installer.

10-gauge NM Romex: Southwire 15 ft. 10/2 Solid Romex SIMpull CU NM-B W/G Wire-28829026 - The...

Cable clamps: Halex 3/8 in. Non-Metallic (NM) Twin-Screw Cable Clamp Connectors (5-Pack)-20...
Jim & Sue
Formerly owned: 2011 27' MB, Sidra
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #12 –
When I installed my PI EMS in July of 2016, rather than using #10 romex, I used #10 SJOW for the installation (shore power only).  IMHO, there is a significant advantage to using SJOW vs. romex.  That is it has stranded conductors instead of solid.  Because the cable is flexible, it makes it a lot easier to work with in tight places, and, stranded conductors are much less likely to cause loose lug connections due to the normal vibration and rattles associated with driving down the road.  I've checked the lug connections in my EMS annually, and have found the lugs to be as tight as they were when I installed it.  I also like that it has a heavy duty jacket that is less vulnerable to chaffing if it happens to rub up against something.  As always, others experiences may vary. 

Bill
Bill
2003 -- 23' FL
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #13 –
I'm with Bill on this one, SJO, SO or what ever rubber jacketed cord with stranded wires is the way to go. Stranded wire is always better than solid and the connections will stay tighter longer.

Jon
1994 MB
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #14 –
Is this the stranded wire referred to in the previous posts? (didn't find "SJOW", but did find "SJOOW")

10 Gauge SJOOW 300v Flexible Portable Cord

"I used #10 SJOW for the installation (shore power only)."

Does this mean that if the EMS is wired with the #10 "SJOOW" wire, the hardwired EMS will only protect from faults due to shore power issues, or will it also protect from power "faults" from the generator?
(One of the advantages of a hardwired EMS over a portable is the wired-in unit's ability to detect/protect against generator power problems as well as against those from a pedestal.)

Thanks for any information/clarification.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #15 –

I use 10-2 NM romex when installing surge protectors. The wires are in a protected area, secured with zip-ties and cable clamps. It's flexible enough to get the wiring into position. This isn't rocket science .
The Factory uses the same wire, if it's good enough for LD, it's good enough for me.
When adding wiring to a LD, I use the same methods and materials (or better) the Mothership uses, they figured out what works years ago. I make sure the added wire is the right gauge for the load, it's well secured and fused.
While stranded wire is more flexible, from my experience, it will eventually loosen, the same as solid wire, it's all made from copper, a very malleable metal. The soft copper is effected by the vibrations of driving and thermal expansions and contractions, from ambient temperature changes and when the wire is heated under load.
When using stranded wire, a crimp ferrule can be used to contain the strands.
Amazon.com: Crimp Ferrules Elibbren 800PCS Assortment Wire Ferrule Copper...

Periodic tightening of all the terminals inside the Power Center is recommended, with all power sources disconnected.
Burned connections in the Power Center is a common, preventable ailment.

Larry

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #16 –
"Is this the stranded wire referred to in the previous posts? (didn't find "SJOW", but did find "SJOOW")"

Joan,

These are the same in all respects except the SJOOW has oil resistant insulation in addition to an oil resistant jacket.  Here's a link that explains the designations of this type of 'portable cord', its wide range of uses and applications, and the apparent recent change to the insulation that supersedes the previous designations.  I don't know whether this change has made it to the 'big box' stores that sell this type of cord yet, but it doesn't matter for the subject here.

https://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=type-sj-sjoow-portable-cord

"Does this mean that if the EMS is wired with the #10 "SJOOW" wire, the hardwired EMS will only protect from faults due to shore power issues, or will it also protect from power "faults" from the generator?"

Yes, I chose to just protect for shore power, which I'm most concerned about.  As you know, there's no telling what one may encounter in a CG.  I don't use my generator very often, so am willing to accept the risks of not monitoring it when I do. 

Bill



Bill
2003 -- 23' FL
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #17 –
Thanks for the clarification and the link, Bill!  ;)
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #18 –
After quite a few years with my EMS covering just my shore power connection, I bowed to the recommendations of other folks here.  In a little over 2 hours, I made the change, tying both the generator and the shore connection into my EMS.  I won't be able to check the shore connection until October, but the generator part, which is what I added, is working just fine.

PLUS - I have about 3 feet of leftover 2/c#10 romex cable, and several strain reliefs.  I bought extra, because I didn't want to take any chances on running out of something - not when I am boondocking this far from town.

Ken F in WY
'08 MB
Re: Where to Install Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C Surge Protector
Reply #19 –
I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions and a special thank you to Ken Fears for his generous offer to coach me through the installation.

I decided to take Linda Hylton's suggestion and have the installation done by Findlay RV in Las Vegas.

Bill
2019 MB and 2010 Honda Fit