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Topic: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span (Read 545 times) previous topic - next topic
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Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Hello to all,

I'm debating if I should buy new or slightly used on a LD motorhome for full time living. I really like how LD has been building basically the same motorhome for so many years, and not built on a production line. I'm thinking they are the last family owned non production line motorhomes left, now that Born Free went out of business in 2017. Another selling point is this wonderful community of friendly helpful LD owners.  I've been spending hours upon hours reading the forums here, and really find a lot of great information about LDs. Larry W posts alone are priceless, not to mention all the other helpful people in this community. 

I saw a 2003 LD 26.5 rear bath on RV Trader with 79,000 miles. The ad said transmission was replaced 25,000 miles ago. So they replaced the transmission when the motorhome had 54,000 miles on it.

My question is it common for the transmission to last around 50k miles before a rebuild/replacement needs to happen when not towing anything and not over loading beyond rated capacity?  I was thinking the transmission might last to 100k miles, but I'm just guessing.

Also is it common for the v10 motors to last 100k miles? Just in general is all I'm asking, as I know there are a lot of variables.

Last question is I read that starting in 2003 LD started using thermopane (double pane) windows and that is a big selling point for me, as I think it will really help with condensation in the winter.  I live in the Pacific Northwest. Do they last years and years before the seals leak and they become foggy on the inside? I'm just curious if you Don't go off road how long before they need replacing or rebuilding.

Thank you for reading,
Gabe
"Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation."

Bruce Lee
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #1 –
Transmission in older models are often replaced.
We pull a 4000-lb Jeep and our 2003 LD's transmission starting making noise at 99,000 miles and was rebuilt by John Wood in Holtville, Ca. 
A rebuilt trans will run $4000-6000.

Older V10 suffered from blown out spark plugs, sometime damaging the engine beyond repair.
$8000+ for a Ford certified remanufactured engine, installed.

Our 2003 has the dual pane windows and three of the five big windows are fogged, figure $500 each to fix, plus the trip to one of the few shops that repair windows.
Fogged windows are extremely common in early and mid 2000s LDs.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #2 –
"So they replaced the transmission when the motorhome had 54,000 miles on it."

Seems to me that the replaced trans either had a flaw or was abused in some form. I have a 2004 which is now approaching 97,000 miles, 100% of which was towing. I, as of now, have no issues with it. From info on this board I'd say 100,000 is the point at which you begin to wonder!   ::)

Now the fuel pump is another matter entirely!
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #3 –
Keeping my fingers crossed but our 2003 Mid Bath just turned 125,000 on the way home from our Northeast Lazy Daze Caravan Club Rally.  I religiously maintain the engine and transmission according to Ford's maintenance schedule.  Going to have the transmission flushed next week before heading out on our next trip to the Great Lakes in July.

As for the windows fogging; I blame it on the #@$!/= Bilsteins I paid extra for when we purchased Daizy.  Finally (way to late) had them replaced with plain old NAPA RV shocks a couple of years ago after all but one of my windows fogged up from the rough ride.  Incidentally, the last window is still good after three years with without the Bilsteins.
2003 MB
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #4 –
"As for the windows fogging; I blame it on the #@$!/= Bilsteins I paid extra for when we purchased Daizy.  Finally (way to late) had them replaced with plain old NAPA RV shocks a couple of years ago after all but one of my windows fogged up from the rough ride."
---
Maybe you mean this statement to be tongue-in-cheek, but I doubt that the Bilsteins were the cause of the fogged windows.  Fogged windows are pretty common with dual pane windows, particularly those in earlier rigs of several brands and types, and it's unlikely that all of the rigs with fogged windows were/are running Bilsteins.

YMMV, of course.

2003 TK has a new home
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #5 –
Thank you for the quick and thoughtful replys.

Larry: when the windows fog up, is it just a ascetics issue? Will a fogged window still help with condensation building up inside and dripping water on the floor in winter? Any other functional issues with fogged windows, besides it being a eye sore?

Lazy Bones: Is the fuel pump a DIY type of job, or is the fuel pump in the gas tank and a pain in the butt to do yourself?

Can you think of any other major things I should look for in a 2000-2016 LD to beware of? After reading a lot of Larry's posts I know what to look for on the roof and end caps. If I see silicon used on the roof or end caps I'll run away fast, hehe. I know what to expect engine and transmission wise. Just trying to think if there's anything else besides the obvious.

I'm really interested in this 2006 26.5 LD on rv trader. It's been stored inside its whole life it looks like.
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2006-Lazy+Daze-26.5+REAR+BATH-5007520231


Thank you all again for your replies,

Gabe
"Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation."

Bruce Lee
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #6 –
All I know is the ride improved 100% once the regular shocks were replaced.  IMHO they were the primary cause.
2003 MB
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #7 –
Quote from: ChezzeBait  - 
: when the windows fog up, is it just a ascetics issue? Will a fogged window still help with condensation building up inside and dripping water on the floor in winter? Any other functional issues with fogged windows, besides it being a eye sore?

Is the fuel pump a DIY type of job, or is the fuel pump in the gas tank and a pain in the butt to do yourself?

A fogged window continue to work fine but will look dirty, especially when the sun light hits the window at the right angle.
The issue is the rubber seals deteriorate at they age and break down, allow air to enter the inside of the dual panes.
The same happens to dual pane home windows as they age and thermo-cycle.
I have seen this problem in LDs equipped with both the stock shocks and Bilsteins .
To be truthful, we noticed little difference between our 1983 LD windows and the 2003. Except for hearing less outside noise, I do not think they contribute much to insulating the interior or preventing condensation, most condensation occurs on the aluminum window frames, not the glass.

The fuel pump is an advanced job, something only well experienced and equipped mechanics should attempt due to the weight of the tank and difficulty of removing and replacing it. Many fuel pumps have failed by 100,000 miles, sometime many miles less.
Fuel pump replacement | Flickr

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #8 –
"...or is the fuel pump in the gas tank and a pain in the butt to do yourself?"

Listen to Larry's advice, he's spot on when it comes to replacing the fuel pump. I am now on my 3rd pump, 1 original + 2.

The 1st failure was in traffic on I-5 just south of Eugene, OR. Had to be carried to service facility. The 2nd failure was in an RV Park, after I'd spent the weekend, and when I tried to start the engine Monday morning she would turn but not fire. Fortunately there was a service facility 3 miles down the road who came and towed me in.

It's a big PITA to have to drop that fuel tank to change one of those pumps. It's a good time to replace any rubber hoses that look suspect as well.  ::)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #9 –
Just one more data point...

Our 2002 MB had 140,000 miles on it when we sold it.  Since we usually towed near the 4,000 lb LD limit, I had the transmission serviced relatively frequently (usually with full fluid flush).  The mechanic never found anything concerning and the transmission behaved normally up until we sold it.  I lost communication with the buyer, so I have no followup history.

But in general, the older the rig the higher the likelyhood of problems of all kinds, like leaks, fridge failure (we had 2 over 13 years), fuel pump, etc.  I'd recommend getting the newest rig you can afford, especially if planning on fulltiming.

Art
Art and Barbara
Settled in Atterdag Village of Solvang
2015-2022 fulltime in a 2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
2002-2015 2002 LD MB
Art's blog
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #10 –
Since finding "slightly used" units is difficult and it sounds like you can afford new, definitely go new.   Order it the way you want it.  Especially since you'r going full time, there is no reason not to.  Work on just how this thing will be equipped to meet your needs, that additions you will do yourself before hitting the road, and get with it!  The waiting list is long, and the future of this company is uncertain and probably based largely on the health of the owner who is no spring chicken.     Frank
plan B - 2023 Travato
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #11 –
Since the large LD windows in one of it’s major selling points, the fogged window issue was very concerning to me when I first heard about it. The older LD’s used a different construction method and did not have this problem. I’m hoping this issue will be resolved in the future.
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #12 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
the fogged window issue was very concerning to me
The older LD’s used a different construction method and did not have this problem.
I’m hoping this issue will be resolved in the future.

It's the nature of dual pane windows to eventually fail, they leak in RVs and homes regularly, especially to windows exposed to the sun and thermal cycling.
Heating raises the pressure inside the gas-filled windows, cooling causes the gas to contact, lowering the pressure. 
The aging rubber seals are subjected to the constant changing of pressure and, at some point deteriorate to the point that they cannot contain the gases and begin to leak. The pounding the window frames receive, over many thousands of miles, speeds the seal's  the deterioration. Sunlight adds to the problem.
Once the seals begin to leak, during the day the air inside the windows is expelled by the pressure increase and is then sucked back into the window, at night when it's cool. The flow of outside air brings moisture and dust into the interior of the window, where it stays.
Maybe better sealing materials could help slow the process down but for now, leakage is going to happen to older, used rigs.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Transmission & Thermopane (double pane) window life span
Reply #13 –
Most of the windows on my 2005 MB began exhibiting fogging after about 10 years. I had them replaced with thick single pane glass. These new windows do condensate far more than the double-pane. I believe the double pane do provide some amount of insulation as well. It seems to get colder faster in the rig now.

David G.
2005 MB