Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

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Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

July 02, 2018, 03:57:48 pm

On my recent shakedown trip in my new to me LD I got to thinking about the tire change issue. As of now my rig has no Jack and no lug wrench or breaker bar etc. Outside storage in my 1997 23.5 FL is pretty limited and I don't really want to fill it up with everything needed to change a tire not to mention the fact that changing an inside flat on rear dually is a bit intimidating. The way I understand it you actually need two Jack's to lift up the entire rear end or you risk twisting the frame. I'm curious how old timers in here handle the flat issue and what advice you'd have for this newbee. Carry all the tools or call for assistance or?

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #1 – July 02, 2018, 04:20:44 pm

Have a plan for both. Have roadside assistance but have the tools and know how to use them if needed. Some people physically could not do this. Even though I "can" - I would not want to risk doing so in cases such as desert heat (had a flat at over 100 degrees once no relief in site).

The problem is that roadside assistance is getting worse - even AAA is cutting corners and some providers just blow them off. So between being in rural areas with potentially no cell coverage, adverse circumstances for changing, etc. - everyone takes the risk. Murphy is a cruel taskmaster.

I find that when you have the tools and are prepared - you are least likely to need them :-)

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #2 – July 02, 2018, 04:44:19 pm

No you distinctly Do Not want to jack up the whole rear end to change a tire. You will not twist the frame, but you don't jack up the frame at all. Just the rear axle, nearest the attachment point for the leaf springs. Just inboard of the inside U-bolt that clamps the leaf spring on. My '99 came with the Ford telescoping screw jack and handle to operate it. I used it once, I think. I also carry a cheap Harbor Freight hydraulic jack, with lever to raise it and a wood block (about 4"x6"x12") to assist with getting the jack where I need it. Because the actual lug nuts are recessed into the wheel, I have a one foot 1/2" drive extension, and the heavy duty 'Pittsburgh' 18" breaker bar (HF). I also carry a 1/2" drive ratchet, and an impact rated socket (um..7/8" I think). For me I carry a speed handle also. Also needed would be about an 8" adjustable open-end wrench (some call it a crescent wrench), and a socket tool to get the fake lug nut off; to remove the wheel simulators. Some people need an 'Allen' wrench to get the lug bolt extender off. I don't have those.
Be advised that on occasion a good Samaritan may want to help you out, or even an ill prepared response unit, and they may need your tools, even if you don't know how or want to use them. Even if you aren't going to change the tire, you still need to know how to do it, to make sure the person doing it, does the right things at the right times. To be fair, there are a lot of variations out there.
Those tools weigh maybe 25 pounds, and fit in nooks and crannies, so don't take up that much space. RonB

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #3 – July 02, 2018, 05:02:33 pm

Two BIG things I want to be prepared for are getting the LD started and the other thing is keeping it rolling.

Your concerns on “rolling” are valid. I’ve covered as many bases as I can in our RB. TPMS, breaker bar, torque wrench, hardened 1/2” drive 9” extension, hardened sockets for the lug nuts, patch kits, stop leak, Viair 12 volt compressor, 25 feet of air hose...and COACH-NET. Next on my shopping list is two 20 Ton pneumatic bottle jacks. The RB has lots of space for these items and if I run out of room I’ll just leave one BBQ at home.

Going and coming...both nobel goals. Best not to have one without the other.

Kent

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #4 – July 02, 2018, 05:31:05 pm

I have had two recent bad experiences with inner-rear blow outs, but none on our new LD. In both instances, the tires were Michelins (They were recalled). The new LD chassis came shoed with Hankook tires. We do have road service (Good Sam) but I also carry what I will need if I must do the job myself. I carry a 20-ton bottle jack (not air assisted), an electric impact driver (DeWalt), and a ViAir Rv air pump. I have practiced using all of those items several times, twice on the LD, once on its Winnebago predecessor. Of course, the electric 1/2 inch impact driver does require firing up the gennie. I honestly feel that I could fix any flat if the need arises, but if relatively close to an urban area, I would definitely try the road service first.

When we towed an Airstream trailer years ago, we experienced two or three flats. On at least one of those occasions I used a plug kit and a cheap 12v pump to get the tire up enough to limp into the nearest town (Lee Vining, CA on Highway 395.) When I got to town I aired all the way up and that plug held just fine. So, I left the tire on. I never had a leak. That plug kit was the same one I used on my touring motorcycles, and it worked very well on those, too. I don't carry a plug kit anymore, but I have thought about it.

Like someone else here advised, there is no need to raise the entire rear end to change one tire. That's very dangerous, too. If the flat is an inner dual, jack up the flat-side axle. Block your front tires when you do so. Remember that when you lift a rear tire set, only one now has a effective parking brake working. Block both front wheels if possible. If the flat is an outer dual, that is easiest of all. Just place a block under the flat-side inner and drive up on it. Now the outer will be off the ground and changes quickly. You my need to loosen the lugs while the weight is still on the wheel.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #5 – July 02, 2018, 05:36:12 pm

Quote from: Ray S. - July 02, 2018, 05:31:05 pm

When we towed an Airstream trailer years ago, we experienced two or three flats. On at least one of those occasions I used a plug kit and a cheap 12v pump to get the tire up enough to limp into the nearest town (Lee Vining, CA on Highway 395.) When I got to town I aired all the way up and that plug held just fine. So, I left the tire on. I never had a leak. That plug kit was the same one I used on my touring motorcycles, and it worked very well on those, too. I don't carry a plug kit anymore, but I have thought about it.

We carry a plug kit but have never had to use it. Is there a life expectancy for the stuff in those kits? Any particular brand recommended?

Jim

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #6 – July 02, 2018, 05:47:14 pm

Jim -- I am sure there would be a reasonable life of the glue. I think the plugs would be good a long time provided they are kept out of sun and heat. I would check them from time to time. The plug kit I used to cycle with was an over-the-counter kit I purchased from any motorcycle shop. I don't recall the brand. It was a good kit. It came in a plastic flip up box that measured maybe 4 x5 x2. Of course, plugs can only be used on tubeless. I'm sure you knew that, but others might not.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #7 – July 02, 2018, 05:57:30 pm

Well some good advice here and I knew I should get what I need to do it myself but I was hoping to be talked out of it. No such luck.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #8 – July 02, 2018, 06:17:45 pm

Sawyer -- If you do purchase an impact driver, make sure that the finger switch has a "rocker" option. I found that to be a necessity to break the lugs. Also, don't get anything less than a 1/2 inch drive. Buy a good quality socket, too. You won't need an entire set, but make certain the socket you do buy fits your lugs (SAE or Metric) and that it is impact specific. Usually the impact sockets are flat-black finished.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #9 – July 02, 2018, 09:04:10 pm

I carry what’s needed to change the tires. But with the one flat we had on outside duel. I got it jacked up and got the lug nuts off with the stock lug wrench. That’s where the problem came. Could not separate the rear wheels as they had rusted together. So we ended up calling roadside assistance anyway. But I still carry all the stuff.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #10 – July 02, 2018, 09:58:50 pm

They make a little threaded rod affair that goes between the (steel) wheels to pry/jack them apart. That said, when I had new tires put on several weeks ago, even the tire shop had difficulty, breaking out the prybars and mallets.

I got a gear-reduction "torque-multiplier" drive for removing the lug nuts. It's like 6-800 ft. pounds of torque by turning a crank. Something I can leave on the RV and not worry about battery charge, etc. Still need a different wrench to get the lugs all the way off, if they're tighter than finger tight -- at 78:1 gear ratio it would take an afternoon to back one off. I've broken too many breaker bars to rely on them in the wild.

Use real wheel chocks to keep the machine on the jack. As mentioned above, lift by axle just enough to get the wheel clear of the ground. Don't stick your noggin under there without jackstands.

Next I'd like to find a weatherproof air compressor that I can mount to the frame underneath, and power with the generator. I'm sure they're out there in off-road land, but haven't begun the search or the saving of pennies for it.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #11 – July 02, 2018, 10:14:56 pm

Here is a funny, or disturbing, story depending on your perspective:

We recently returned from a 3 week trip to Colorado. About 20 miles south of Show Low Az, we had a driver side inside dually explosively blow out, likely because of a delamination of a Michelin tire. The tire was just under 5 years old, 7/32 of an inch of tread, no checking or cracking, and the nice crew at Discount Tire in San Diego who had rotated the tire a few months earlier said they looked fine. The explosion blew off the wheel skirt and the departing tread tore off the black tank hose storage and hose. Other damage was minimal.

When the AAA tow truck arrived 2 hours later (a guy and his 20 year old son, a woman, and two little kids in the back), they tried to jack up the Lazy Daze by the differential with their floor jack. I caught them in the act and insisted that they lower and reposition the jack to a location on the axle close to the wheel. The guy said "We always do it this way." I said "Not on my rig." Next, they couldn't pick up the axle with their wimpy 1 1/2 ton floor jack and announced that they couldn't finish the job. I suggested that they use my 20 ton bottle jack and lift the frame part way first, and then lift the axle. That worked to get the wheels off the ground. Then they didn't have a socket that fit the Lazy Daze lugs. I had one in my tool bag.

When we removed the spare tire, I asked them to check the pressure in the spare and they said they didn't have a gauge. I checked it with my gauge and it was a little below what I like to run at. I asked them to top it off. They didn't have a compressor. We used the Viair I carry with me. I asked them what they were going to torque the lugs to and they said "We get them real tight." I asked them to torque them to 140ft/lb as specified in the owners manual and discovered that they didn't have a torque wrench. They then used my torque wrench. I replaced the wheel covers myself.

Either of my two daughters know more about changing tires that the guys sent by AAA.

When I bought my Lazy Daze, I took a wheel and tire off and put it back on while in the comfort of the barn. That exercise caused me to buy and carry an old jump suit and gloves, three reflective safety triangles, a 20 ton and a 12 ton bottle jack, a cat's claw to remove the wheel cover, a rubber mallet to replace the wheel cover, a breaker bar with a 4 inch extension and the correct socket, a big 250ft/lb torque wrench, a good air pressure gauge, and a viair compressor. I don't want to wriggle under the Lazy Daze to change a tire on the hot pavement, but I can and I'm sure glad I had done it once and had the correct tools when Dumb and Dumber showed up to change the tire. Do this job once in the safety and comfort of where you store your coach. That knowledge will be very valuable when you blow a tire.

Yes, I have written a letter to AAA. Now it is time to get a different tow service.

Harold

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #12 – July 02, 2018, 10:34:13 pm

Wow, sorry to hear about that Harold. On the bright side, at least it wasn't snowing!

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #13 – July 02, 2018, 10:37:30 pm

This is all great Information, I only plan to have tire troubles on the outside dually, just sayin...

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #14 – July 03, 2018, 02:16:12 am

We had an inside rear blowout last July on 395,, coming home from the Sierras. We were 40 minutes from Mojave, the nearest possible place Coach Net might have a truck and it was getting hot.
I didn't want to spend half a day waiting for someone to change the tire, so we did it ourselves.

Luckily, if this is luck, it was abut 10:30-am and the blowout was on the passenger's side, so there was a some rapidly disappearing shade to work in.
The challenge was on to beat the sun.
We did it, changing it and getting back on the road in 45 minutes.
First thing was to block the other wheels, to prevent the rig from moving, then laying down the sheets of cardboard, carried in both the Jeep and LD for such occurances.
Next the wheel skirt was taped in the up position with duct tape.
Two jacks were used, a 10 and 20 ton. One will lift the rear end, the other is for security, not having a jack stand .
The jacks were placed on a 12" X 12", 3/4' plywood squares, as the ground was soft.
You need to lift the rig quite a bit to get enough clearance to get the wheels out of the wheel well.

A 3' piece of 1' water pipe is used as a cheater, along with a long 1/2" breaker bar. A 6"- 1/2'' drive extension and a deep well socket are used to break loose and remove the lugs nuts.
I cheated a little using an 1/2"drive battery impact driver to remove the lug nuts, after breaking them loose. It's carried the Jeep, when we off-road.

It's getting tougher to lift and drop the spare, from its rear storage spot, we put the flat inside the coach.
It was a bit of work wrestling the two wheels out, needing to be careful not to damage the extended stems.
It was the same hassle getting the spare and outer wheel back into position.
Throw a pair or two mechanics gloves in your tool box, to save your hands.
The impact wrench took most of the work out of removing and tightening the lug nuts.
Having done this at home many times helped to speed the operation up, practice makes perfect.

One of the few nice things about working on the LD is getting cleaned up and changing clothes afterwards.

Larry

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #15 – July 03, 2018, 04:34:00 am

I agree AAA has gone down hill in their service.
We have State Farm insurance and for a few bucks a month we get roadside service included.
We used it with a car that needed a tow - we were 30 min outside of town and it was the middle of the night. Truck was there within 45 minutes and for an extra $25 we could get it towed an additional 25 Miles to our mechanic (vs "the closest one".
Driver who came out was very professional.

We thought this was a deal.

They cover RVs and I have been assured the coverage is same. I don't know if I fully believe that yet and I hope I won't have to test it out.

Jane

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #16 – July 03, 2018, 09:52:20 am

The fun part about jacking up the rear axle is being underneath the entire rig while doing so....letting it down while laying underneath it is also fun. That being said I would invest in the proper tools to make the job as stress free as possible.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #17 – July 03, 2018, 10:13:13 am

The list of tools needed, the weight of them and the space they will use in the very limited outside storage of my 24 ft LD is not heartening. Part of me thinks screw it, I see lots of really old people in huge motorhomes that obviously can't change their own tires and if they can rely on calling some to do it so can I. The other part of me that is a total self sufficient DIY type that built his own house from the ground up with wood cut off his own land and milled in his own sawmill says carry the tools and don't rely on help from some so called professional. Storage space is my big issue here and I'll really have to mull it over. On my shakedown trip I realized just how limited the outside storage is in my rig and how little really fits in there. The outside camp rug my wife insisted on and our portable dog fence alone use up a lot of it and then there's tools in general I like to have and other essentials. Really going to have to think this over.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #18 – July 03, 2018, 10:20:39 am

Train the dog, ditch the rug haha!

Seriously though, being able to change a tire on any vehicle is right below being able to put gas in as far as priorities. I’ve had my lazy daze for 1.5 months, taken it out for the past 3 weekends and each time I’ve lost cell reception. Before we ever took it camping I had to replace the entire front brake assemblies which was Zero fun, also checking tire pressures and adding flow through caps meant taking the rears off....another eye opener. There isn’t a single piece of camping gear Id rather have taking up the space of whatever I carry to work on the RV, of course mine is 18 years old and has 140k on the odometer. I’d carry a tire lever long enough to effortlessly remove/tighten lug nuts. A 1/4 battery impact to do the spinning of the lugs once they are loose. A big ole bottle jack, a wooden Leveling block doubles a jack support. Some wheel chocks and whatever sockets/wrenches you need and none that you don’t. This stuff doesn’t take up too much space and not having some auxillery supplies won’t ruin a trip but being stranded surely will.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #19 – July 03, 2018, 10:41:00 am

Quote from: Cor2man - July 03, 2018, 10:20:39 am

Train the dog, ditch the rug haha!

Seriously though, being able to change a tire on any vehicle is right below being able to put gas in as far as priorities. I’ve had my lazy daze for 1.5 months, taken it out for the past 3 weekends and each time I’ve lost cell reception. Before we ever took it camping I had to replace the entire front brake assemblies which was Zero fun, also checking tire pressures and adding flow through caps meant taking the rears off....another eye opener. There isn’t a single piece of camping gear Id rather have taking up the space of whatever I carry to work on the RV, of course mine is 18 years old and has 140k on the odometer. I’d carry a tire lever long enough to effortlessly remove/tighten lug nuts. A 1/4 battery impact to do the spinning of the lugs once they are loose. A big ole bottle jack, a wooden Leveling block doubles a jack support. Some wheel chocks and whatever sockets/wrenches you need and none that you don’t. This stuff doesn’t take up too much space and not having some auxillery supplies won’t ruin a trip but being stranded surely will.

The limited storage kind of reminds me of backpacking, you really have to decide what's essential and prioritize. I'm afraid if I ditch the rug and the dog fence I'll have to ditch the wife too which would lighten the load and free up some space but who will cook my meals and wash the dishes? This is a no win situation.

How long is your LD?

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #20 – July 03, 2018, 10:51:33 am

26.5 so I understand I have more space than you. Me and my wife are backpackers so we don’t bring much to begin with, most of our cabinet space is empty still. That being said if we were going for weeks at a time we would likely fill it up fast. Packing for a dog is a hassle but good training and an ecollar saves the space a crate/enclosure would take up.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #21 – July 03, 2018, 11:07:25 am

Quote from: Cor2man - July 03, 2018, 10:51:33 am

26.5 so I understand I have more space than you. Me and my wife are backpackers so we don’t bring much to begin with, most of our cabinet space is empty still. That being said if we were going for weeks at a time we would likely fill it up fast. Packing for a dog is a hassle but good training and an ecollar saves the space a crate/enclosure would take up.

The rug has to stay but I'm working on the fence issue. Our German Shorthair is on her last legs and she's the problem child when it comes to this. They are a high strung breed and can't be on a leash or have a shock collar without going insane. She has been a great friend and hunting companion and things kind of revolve around her right now. When she's gone the pound rescue mutt will be fine on a rope and that will free up outside storage space. On the subject of inside storage though even our 24 ft model has room to spare. I'm really impressed with all the storage it has and on our 10 day shakedown trip we didn't come near using it all.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #22 – July 03, 2018, 11:09:00 am

Quote from: Sawyer - July 03, 2018, 10:13:13 am

The list of tools needed, the weight of them and the space they will use in the very limited outside storage of my 24 ft LD is not heartening. Part of me thinks screw it, IReally going to have to think this over.

We own a 23.5’ Front Lounge and carry a good tool kit, lots of spares, along with two sea kayaks and gear. We are not under equipped .

You can store the tire gear and a lot more with planning. Your rig has plenty of potential storage .

Larry
FL owner for 23 years

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #23 – July 03, 2018, 11:11:56 am

Haha no doubt I understand the high strung dog attitude....we have a Belgium malinois and I’ve never seen a more active energetic dog.

Re: Flat tire DIY or call for assistance

Reply #24 – July 03, 2018, 11:16:08 am

My storage spaces on our 27MB are filled with leveling blocks, essential tools, spare tire, water filters, hoses, camera gear, books and food. We recently took our first trip in nearly 35 years without a German Shepherd who helped us out by mooching snacks, shedding, being in the way, and needing to go out in the middle of the night. The extra space from not having a dog along is not worth having. We look forward to another four-footed housemate.

Storage is full, but what else could we need?

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