Stay in Play / Flat towing June 28, 2018, 04:58:37 pm HI,I bought Stay-in-play braking system and I am trying to link up my 2009 Subaru Forester, MT, to my 2003 Lazy Daze. I am in the process of figuring out how to do this with instructions, but I am at an impasses.... I don't know how to connect the wiring system with the Stay in play box. I feel like the plug does not fit into the Lazy Daze trailer socket. Does the trailer socket need to be updated or does it need an adapter? Help. Thank youV/RDave
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #1 – June 28, 2018, 06:05:00 pm Hmmm, mine did not come with any plug for that - you splice and dice into your own purchased separately. The LD plug only supplies the lighting 'information'. What you do with that depends on your specifics.In my case, I installed a 7-pin separate plug on the LD which takes the lighting information from the 4-pin connector, and adds a relay voltage/current boost to the outputs, as well as providing a charging line for the toad battery, and a path for the stay-in-play monitor LED forward to the LD dashboard. Others have installed a 4-pin standard connector to the toad, relied on the toad battery holding enough charge, and placed the monitor LED on the toad dash, viewed with rearview mirror of camera.Steve 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #2 – June 28, 2018, 07:09:54 pm Steve....What is that plug in underneath the sparetire storage?-Dave
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #3 – June 28, 2018, 07:41:02 pm When I say mine did not come with any plug for connecting to the LD I am referring to the Stay-in-play. The LD trailer lighting connector IS the 4-pin socket on the spare tire cover. If you use that, you need to install a similar socket at the front of the toad, and buy an umbilical cord to connect them. You then wire the toad lights and SMI unit to toad socket. HOWEVER, the LD connector provides marginal voltage and current capacity for the task, and does not have extra circuits for battery charging or remote brake monitoring.Steve 2 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #4 – June 29, 2018, 02:31:25 am The plug you need comes with the tow bar kit but can be bought separately. You need to change out the original four pin to a 7 pin connector. Roadmaster sells the cable and toad plug. Blue Ox probably does, too.It is not an easy job to install that brake system but I am pleased I have it. It works well. 2 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #5 – June 29, 2018, 12:48:06 pm Dave, from your posts I'm unclear whether you have yet installed your baseplate. If you have not, you have both a lot of mechanical and electrical work ahead to finish up, so you should consult a hitch installation facility to find out what you need in addition to the SMI. Then you can decide which parts you want to tackle on your own.Steve 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #6 – June 29, 2018, 01:04:00 pm I installed a brake controller in my 2000 FL last year around this time. Although the documentation for the controller (on their website) had chapter and verse about E350 installs, and a nice adaptor cable to match, it turns out that the chassis was not pre-wired for brake controller even though the relevant pair of connectors was present on the frame at the rear. (Which LD uses for coach indicator lighting.) The under-dash connector called out by brake controller mfg., while it looked the same and fit the adaptor, actually had power fused by the dash radio fuse and had wires in decidedly the wrong locations on the connector. Plus the wires going to the rear were nowhere to be found up front. They obviously had been picked up somewhere, since they functioned and were useable for some things (constant power for trailer batt charging, for instance.) But the consensus here and confirmed by the mothership was that there was no trustworthy pre-wire for trailer brake control, so best to start from scratch. I did pick up the standard lighting signals from the OEM trailer jack, though. 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #7 – June 29, 2018, 06:16:15 pm When I had the Blue Ox base plate installed on my Forester I asked for the kit to add brake/stop/turn lights to the existing tail lights. They drilled a hole in the housing and installed a two filament bulb in the existing tail light. The lines for that run to the front receiver for the umbilical electrical cable from the RV. I also had the RV's connector upgraded so it would not only provide the necessary brake, turn and emergency signals to the car but also run power to the battery from the RV generator. Yes the power to the cars battery was another kit. The system seems to work fine. I have no issue seeing the flasher-brake lights when they are working; I had a friend sit in the rv playing with the necessary levers and peddles. The power from the generator is not all that much power though. The 07 Subie has day time running lights, if I leave the key in the "ON" position instead of the accessory position the battery will not start the car the after a long (10-14 hours) day. Normal 6-8 hours seems to be fine. Subaru runs a lot of electronics when the key is in the on position. When it is in the acc position most all is off except the 12v power ports. 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #8 – June 29, 2018, 07:57:33 pm Kudos to all of you handy people who can do it yourself 👍 I paid someone to install the tow gear and stay n play and it was worth the $$$💵 2 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #9 – June 29, 2018, 08:12:57 pm Dave-I installed a Duo in our Honda Fit, so we could tow it behind our 1998 mid-bath. I also rewired the mid-bath, to eliminate the low-voltage problem mentioned. Neither of those jobs was for the faint-of-heart.To answer your question, once the toad is wired for the Duo you will need to make up a four-wire cable to bridge the gap between coach and toad. Our coach came with a cable that clicked into the connector on the spare tire cover. If you don't have one, perhaps the Mothership does, or knows where to get one, or you can probably find one on the Internet. A fellow LDer may have one kicking around (for that matter, so may I!).Ford made things better on chassis built 2004 or later. For chassis built before that, there are a number of pitfalls and improvements that can be made. If you want to go down the road of making things better, send me a private message with your contact info. I think it would work well to discuss options by phone.Mark H 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #10 – June 29, 2018, 10:01:13 pm The low voltage problem that 2003 and older LDs have can be eased by replacing both the LDs tail lights and the toad’s tail lights with LEDs.Cured the issue on our 2003 LD, allowing dumping the relay pack, originally added to boost the toad’s tail light voltage. Saves a lot of work and money.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #11 – June 30, 2018, 06:32:38 am Larry-I second your recommendation- replace the incandescent bulbs with LED bulbs before doing anything else.I installed a very complicated-looking wiring system to power coach and trailer lights (solid-state but based on the relay design). It continues to vex the current owner of our former coach. The wiring is fine, but the electronics are not reliable.I still like the end result of replacing the 4-pin hitch connector with a standard 7-pin connector, though. That effort got me a battery charge line that our toad needed.Yes. LEDs first, then assess. If toad lights are bright enough, you are OK to go.Mark H 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #12 – June 30, 2018, 04:09:34 pm Any flasher change required to go LED for tail lights? 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #13 – June 30, 2018, 04:20:04 pm Quote from: Chip Chester - June 30, 2018, 04:09:34 pmAny flasher change required to go LED for tail lights?Yes, for many toads. However, the flasher in our Fit is an integral part of the ECU, and thus cannot be replaced. LEDs will not work.Steve 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #14 – June 30, 2018, 08:02:45 pm For Chip; Yes the flasher in the Ford chassis needs to be upgraded from the stock. The stock one in older years is load dependent and will flash slowly or not at all. I replaced mine (a '99 TKB) and a friend's (2001 MB) with this Grote 44892.Amazon.com: Grote 44892 3 Pin Flasher (North American (JSO) Pinout): Automotive An electronic load independent flasher. RonB 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #15 – June 30, 2018, 08:11:35 pm I too availed myself of that very handy tool, the check-book cheater bar.The mothership agreed to install a 7 pin plug if I provided it. I found an RV shop with previous experience with installing the SMI on a Honda CRV.After a few jumpstarts on the towd, I found Cramping Whirled had a $79 cutoff switch, the instructions for which included the particular fuse to apply it to. That was simple enough to install and I leave the key in accessory position with the switch off. In the accessory position the odometer doesn't turn over. YMMVjoel 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #16 – July 01, 2018, 02:24:41 am Thought I would re-post a link to my trailer (towed car) light buffer and wiring. I totally removed the tire cover four pin plug, blanked it off and painted it out. I put a 'Universal' seven pin 'RV' connector under the bumper, close to the hitch. This connector comes with many new trucks, and quite a few other brand motorhomes. I get mine at the local WalMart. I couldn't see going to the older version 6 pin connector that, I guess, newer LD's have. In addition to a dedicated +12vdc for charging the 'towed' battery, it has a return line from the SMI controller to operate a light on the dash of the motorhome. This is to alert the driver that the 'towed's brakes are on, essential if the motorhomes brakes aren't applied.For a picture of the motorhome install, reference a previous LDOF post: Trailer wiring modsThe brake signal adaptor to generate a Brake signal for the SMI Stay'N'Play aux brake controller. I used this signal to also drive the third brake light mounted on the Tire cover: Tekonsha 118158 Taillight Converter Connecting Tow Vehicles with 2 Wire...And the light for the tire cover Light Bar LED Truck and Trailer Light - 19” LED Brake and Turn Light Bar w/...These referenced parts may be available at other less expensive locations. Other ID light bars had bad reviews, This is a good one, but I got it awhile ago at WalMart for $20. The trim ring looks good, and it is bright even in daylight. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #17 – July 02, 2018, 09:17:48 am Quote from: Steve - June 29, 2018, 12:48:06 pmDave, from your posts I'm unclear whether you have yet installed your baseplate. If you have not, you have both a lot of mechanical and electrical work ahead to finish up, so you should consult a hitch installation facility to find out what you need in addition to the SMI. Then you can decide which parts you want to tackle on your own.SteveSteve..I don't know if I did it correctly but I installed the SMI stay in play on my subaru... now I know that I need a 7pin connector in the RV to connect it with road for signal lights. As soon as 7pin connector is installed I should be able to test drive the RV w/my toad. Only then I would know if installing the SMI was a success. Hopefully I did it correctly. Thank youVrDave
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #18 – July 02, 2018, 10:00:16 pm Dave-I installed an RV ProPlug on the rear bumper (see this picture for a non-closeup view), using a custom mounting plate made from polyethylene sheet (thing plastic cutting board) and a backing plate of 1/8" aluminum inside the bumper.The ProPlug has built-in test LEDs. It's expensive, compared with the usual 7-pin connector, but I liked its construction and mounting.Mark H 1 Likes
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #19 – July 04, 2018, 08:44:22 pm Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - July 02, 2018, 10:00:16 pmDave-I installed an RV ProPlug on the rear bumper (see this picture for a non-closeup view), using a custom mounting plate made from polyethylene sheet (thing plastic cutting board) and a backing plate of 1/8" aluminum inside the bumper.The ProPlug has built-in test LEDs. It's expensive, compared with the usual 7-pin connector, but I liked its construction and mounting.Mark HThanks Mark,Yesterday, I had UHAUL install a 7 pin connector for $100.00. So i tested the SMI Stay in Play, driving around the block. I had my friend seat inside the driver seat while i drove the LD. My buddy maintain visual of SMI operations inside the Subaru as I drove around the block. It's a miracle. All is good, and it all seems like it is all in good working order. I am about to hit the road this week...and hopefully it is as good as they say about this SMI Stay in play system. Thank you all for all your good advices/ comments-Dave
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #20 – July 07, 2018, 06:20:20 pm I thought I knew something about this topic. After reading this, I am positive I know less than I thought.I installed a Stay-In-Play 11 years ago. Even transferred it from a Liberty to a Wrangler. I followed the Stay-In-Play instructions. I left the 4-pin LD socket alone, that is used for lights only.I ran another 4 wires for the exclusive use of the Stay-In-Play.I do not have a charging wire - have never needed it. Have towed for five days in a row and the toad battery was fine when I finally cranked that engine.I use one wire of the four exclusive to the Stay-In-Play that goes from the toad brake light switch to a light on the dash of the LD. It comes on when the toad brake is depressed. I like that a lot.The Stay-In-Play died and I am going to have to install a new model which is a little different from the original. The way they want the new model wired does not allow for braking sensitivity adjustments to be made from the LD, nor for a return signal from the toad to confirm the brakes are on. That's backward to me. I will try to do it the right way.OK, end comments and try to ask my question. Steve wrote:In my case, I installed a 7-pin separate plug on the LD which takes the lighting information from the 4-pin connector, and adds a relay voltage/current boost to the outputs, as well as providing a charging line for the toad battery, and a path for the stay-in-play monitor LED forward to the LD dashboard. Others have installed a 4-pin standard connector to the toad, relied on the toad battery holding enough charge, and placed the monitor LED on the toad dash, viewed with rearview mirror of camera.Our LD came with a 4-pin connector. If you replace it a 7-pin what you are putting in the "extra" 3 pins?I get that one is used for the return circuit and one for a charging line. Nothing in the 7th?What's a relay voltage/current booster?The guy that started this thread does not have LED's, neither do I. But, he says it works as is. He does not say what, if anything, he used the extra pins for.The new Stay-In-Play uses 4 wires just like the older did.
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #21 – July 08, 2018, 02:15:24 am Quote from: Don Malpas - July 07, 2018, 06:20:20 pmOur LD came with a 4-pin connector. If you replace it a 7-pin what you are putting in the "extra" 3 pins?I get that one is used for the return circuit and one for a charging line. Nothing in the 7th?What's a relay voltage/current booster?Nothing in the 7th - correct. I liked the beefiness of the 7-pin contacts better than those in the 6-pin. The relay box has a bunch of standard Bosch-style automotive relays. The contact power source is a heavy gauge feed from the coach battery bank, and the coils are driven from the voltages from the standard 4-pin connector. This avoids any voltage drops from the current drawn by the toad lighting, and provides the current for toad battery charging. The Honda Fit uses a battery about sized for a motorcycle.Steve
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #22 – July 08, 2018, 05:51:26 am When I had my stay in play installed last year I was surprised to learn that they did not include the transmitter from the unit to the coach to inform you when the brakes were engaged. I tried to use the led alert in the toad, but could not see it. My installer then ran a wire from the SMI unit to the coach and placed it in a very discreet place on the dash. It works great.By the way, SMI is now owned by Demco. Charlie Gary
Re: Stay in Play / Flat towing Reply #23 – July 08, 2018, 11:27:41 am I was 'surprised' to find what they described as a 'wireless indicator' was a panel of 4 red LEDs that you hang from the mirror.The backup camera tends to wash out red so it showed as a tiny white light in the glare on the window!.My interim solution was to get an aux brake light that fit in a 2" hitch receiver and velcro it to the roof rack facing forward. Nonphotogenic, but it worked.joel
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