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Tips for Settling Insurance Claims
I posted on the classifieds about the sad demise of our beloved 2000 LD  ---- 23.5 foot front lounge.

It burned completely while we were gone over Christmas and we are now dealing with the insurance company and also looking for a replacement.

We got a call from one insurance guy today who says that he finds a value of just over 11,000 for this rig.    As all of you know, this would not come close to the price we could have sold it for or the price we will have to pay to replace it.

If anyone purchased a similar rig --- any floorplan of the years above of the small LD and would be willing to tell us what you paid, I would appreciate it very very much.

You can email me at mingo_dude at yahoo dot com    if you don't want to post on here.

Thanks so much

Judy Korte

aka    mingo_dude
Judy
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #1 –
Quote from: mingo_dude  - 
I posted on the classifieds about the sad demise of our beloved 2000 LD  ---- 23.5 foot front lounge.

It burned completely while we were gone over Christmas and we are now dealing with the insurance company and also looking for a replacement.

We got a call from one insurance guy today who says that he finds a value of just over 11,000 for this rig.    As all of you know, this would not come close to the price we could have sold it for or the price we will have to pay to replace it.

If anyone purchased a similar rig --- any floorplan of the years above of the small LD and would be willing to tell us what you paid, I would appreciate it very very much.

You can email me at mingo_dude at yahoo dot com    if you don't want to post on here.

Thanks so much

Judy Korte

aka    mingo_dude
Judy, sorry for your loss and sorry I can't help you with replacement cost estimate. That said, if you wind up feeling you were not fairly treated by your insurance company, it would be helpful to members if you would share any details you feel comfortable with as you work through a settlement. It's rare for an LD to be totaled out.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #2 –
I don't think they have any choice but to total this ----     it's so sad.
Judy
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #3 –
First of all, every insurance carrier is different. I know you've read your policy to see just what coverage you have been paying for.

What you are experiencing is a regrettably common  issue with a Lazy Daze and  other vehicles that sell infrequently on the typical dealer retail market. If you owned, say a Winnebago View, the replacement value would be easy to establish. LD's most often sell directly from owner to owner so independent, verifiable sales data is scarce. Hopefully, enough people will respond to your request to cause the insurance company to reconsider although realistically, thats not all that likely. You might try asking them to simply find, and provide to you, a replacement LD of similar model and age. Not sure they will go along with that, but I would sure try. As always, render everything to writing. No verbal anything.  I would insist that the  insurance company show you exactly how they arrived at their offer. Where did they find comparable sales of Lazy Days RV's? By turning up the heat, you will get a more favorable settlement. If all else fails, talking to an attorney who specializes in such things might be called for.  Don't give in  without a fight. Insurance companies are accustomed to negotiating. They make a profit by maximizing premiums and minimizing settlements
 They understand settling is cheaper than a lawsuit.

An aside about my personal LD insurance experience.

I bought my first LD, a 2000 MB, used in 2003, I paid $50,000 for it. When I went to insure it through USAA/Progressive I was told the most they would insure it for was some $35,000 as best I recall. After going round and round with Progressive, and being a long term customer with USAA, and providing proof of the purchase amount, they reluctantly agreed to the $50,000 figure with the understanding that the insured value would decrease with time. I don't recall the exact details, but that's the essence of it.
When a vehicle is purchased new, most companies will write a Total Loss Replacement policy that's good for a limited number of years. With Progressive it's five years. So, if my now 2015 LD is totaled within the first five years, they will simply replace it with a 2015 or newer model.
After the five years is up, or if insuring a used LD with them for the first time, Progressive insures at what they call a 'negotiated value'. Recalling my conversation with their agent about my 2000, I cynically said "Negotiated value really means whatever value you say it is, Right?.  She smiled over the phone and said, "Well, yes, I guess that's what it means." So much for negotiating an insured value.
One other point. If you have added any expensive items after you originally insured your RV, say a $5,000 solar system or a set of power levelers, you might want to talk to your insurance company about these items.


Now would seem to be a good time to reread your policy. I just did.

Ed
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #4 –
Quote from: mingo_dude  - 
I posted on the classifieds about the sad demise of our beloved 2000 LD  ---- 23.5 foot front lounge.

It burned completely while we were gone over Christmas and we are now dealing with the insurance company and also looking for a replacement.

We got a call from one insurance guy today who says that he finds a value of just over 11,000 for this rig.    As all of you know, this would not come close to the price we could have sold it for or the price we will have to pay to replace it.

If anyone purchased a similar rig --- any floorplan of the years above of the small LD and would be willing to tell us what you paid, I would appreciate it very very much.

You can email me at mingo_dude at yahoo dot com    if you don't want to post on here.

Thanks so much

Judy Korte

aka    mingo_dude


I retired from property/casualty insurance claims. I would suggest you look at Ebay and the completed auctions search function.  Also, start shopping the various sources online and see if you can find a comparable vehicle.

Here is the Ebay search but not much to go on.

Lazy Daze in RVs & Campers | eBay

Had you recently had any major work done, i.e. Paint job, new tires, engine or transmission rebuild? If so those things should add value. Routine maintenance generally won't increase a valuation.

I would also ask the insurer to provide you with a copy of whatever source they are using to value the rig and, by that, I mean a print out. Use it to be sure that it includes all the options and condition of your LD. If they are using any book values those will likely be inaccurate given that most LD's don't go through dealers and as a result there isn't much of a database.

Assuming that they have all the options correct but are using NADA or some other book then you need to try and find a comparable to make your case as to value.

If all else fails your policy probably has language providing for appraisal. This is the language from our policy with National General.

"APPRAISAL
A. If we and you do not agree on the amount of loss, either may demand an
appraisal of the loss. In this event, each party will select a competent
appraiser. The two appraisers will select an umpire. The appraisers will state
separately the actual cash value and the amount of loss. If they fail to agree,
they will submit their differences to the umpire. A decision agreed to by any
two will be binding. Each party will:
1. pay its chosen appraiser; and
2. bear the expenses of the appraisal and umpire equally."

Hope this helps.

Jim
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Jim & Gayle  - 

I retired from property/casualty insurance claims. I would suggest you look at Ebay and the completed auctions search function.  Also, start shopping the various sources online and see if you can find a comparable vehicle.

Here is the Ebay search but not much to go on.

Lazy Daze in RVs & Campers | eBay

Had you recently had any major work done, i.e. Paint job, new tires, engine or transmission rebuild? If so those things should add value. Routine maintenance generally won't increase a valuation.

I would also ask the insurer to provide you with a copy of whatever source they are using to value the rig and, by that, I mean a print out. Use it to be sure that it includes all the options and condition of your LD. If they are using any book values those will likely be inaccurate given that most LD's don't go through dealers and as a result there isn't much of a database.

Assuming that they have all the options correct but are using NADA or some other book then you need to try and find a comparable to make your case as to value.

If all else fails your policy probably has language providing for appraisal. This is the language from our policy with National General.

"APPRAISAL
A. If we and you do not agree on the amount of loss, either may demand an
appraisal of the loss. In this event, each party will select a competent
appraiser. The two appraisers will select an umpire. The appraisers will state
separately the actual cash value and the amount of loss. If they fail to agree,
they will submit their differences to the umpire. A decision agreed to by any
two will be binding. Each party will:
1. pay its chosen appraiser; and
2. bear the expenses of the appraisal and umpire equally."

Hope this helps.

Jim
Jim and Ed, thanks for posting these great insurance tips and advice for LDO members and Lazy Daze owners. I intend to print them out and put them in my insurance policy file.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #6 –
Mingo Dude
It looks like the appraiser used the average of the Nada Guide pricing. I am told this is a Dealer wholesale price guide.  Your 2000 23.foot FL shows: $10,050 Low retail and $12,100 Average Retail.
Push for at least the $12,100 as the Average Retail.  Asking prices have notoriously been about 170% of the NADA Average Retail Pricing for the last two years.
New Car Prices and Used Car Book Values - NADAguides

Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #7 –
Quote from: rodneyhelfrich  - 
Mingo Dude
It looks like the appraiser used the average of the Nada Guide pricing. I am told this is a Dealer wholesale price guide.  Your 2000 23.foot FL shows: $10,050 Low retail and $12,100 Average Retail.
Push for at least the $12,100 as the Average Retail.  Asking prices have notoriously been about 170% of the NADA Average Retail Pricing for the last two years.
New Car Prices and Used Car Book Values - NADAguides



NADA is not a reflection of wholesale prices. It reflects selling prices at dealers by region compiled over the prior 90 days to publication. I am assuming this hasn't changed in the last several years but it could. The downside is not very many LD's go through dealers.

I would also think that the value would be boosted for things like re-upholstering interior furniture or replacing flooring or replacing the frig.

If you can find comparables that will be very helpful to your cause. I noted that there was a 2000 MB on Ebay that didn't sell with an asking price of $18,900.

Jim
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #8 –
The price guide on this Forum suggests $22000.
Dale from Downey 27’ 2012 RB,”Casa Verde”, 2000 Jeep Wrangler. Formerly1991 RB & 1990 Jeep Wrangler.
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #9 –
Jim,
Thank you for clarifying my NADA Issue, wholesale vs retail.  Retail it is.
Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #10 –
   Hi Judy. Sorry to see your loss. I know that my 1999 TKB would suffer from an underestimated worth also. I do remember getting my recall notice from Ford about the Cruise control. Actually it was about the brake switch being unable to withstand fluid pressure, and leaking fluid into the switch contacts. Ford's temporary fix was to not park your vehicle in your garage, or too near the house! The solution was to put a fuse in series with the switch, so hopefully the fuse would blow before igniting the brake fluid. The first fixes for the recall put the fuse in the wrong part of the electrical circuit, offering no protection, so they had to recall those 'first fixers' to put the fuse in the right place. I still check for signs of brake fluid seepage. Someday I'll just replace the switch with a newer model. Hope you had that recall done. Have you determined a cause? or is that something about closing the barn door. RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #11 –
Do you remember the date of that recall?    We have only owned this since Sept of 2012.    
Judy
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #13 –
   Hi Judy. The Ford recall eventually affected over 14 million vehicles from 1992 through 2002. The switch was made by Texas Instruments and was used even after it was known to cause fires. It was a switch to de-activate the cruise control, if the brake switch for the brake lights was somehow inoperative. It involved all 1992- 2002, E150, E250, E350 and E450's. Trucks also from 1994 to 2003 F150, F250, F350, F450, F550. Also many lines of Ford and Mercury passenger cars.
  vinrcl.safercar.gov  is a NHTSA website that will report open recalls by VIN. I was unsuccessful looking for a log of recalls that were completed on my LD.   Your Front lounge 23.5' would have been on the same Ford chassis as my TKB. Hope this helped. RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #14 –
Ron,  

My husband tried searching by the VIN  and no recalls showed up.    Lazy Daze called our RV a 2000, but the Ford was definitely a 1999.

Thanks for your help.

Judy
Judy
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #15 –
Judy, I think the link I posted above will describe the specific recall; according to NHSTA, recall lookups by VIN are not listed after certain dates, but according to this *Ford* recall site, VIN searches start 1/1/99, so you might try it:

Recall Notices | Services | Official Ford Owner Site

It's moot now, of course, except if you find another rig of the same vintage (that didn't have pertinent recalls done). And, I don't know for how long a recall of any type may be valid, but I am quite sure that most would have an end date window to have the recall done at all, let alone holding the manufacturer responsible for the cost of the repair or replacement. (???)

Joan

2003 TK has a new home
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #16 –
" It involved all 1992- 2002, E150, E250, E350 and E450's."

Don't think my 2004 30'IB falls into this category but I did have an intermittent failure involving the speed control switch. At first it was now and then until it finally quit all together. Managed to diagnose the problem with help from this forum and since switch was replaced have had no further problems.  :)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #17 –
FWIW, I sold my 1992 TK last summer for $13,500.  $11,000 sounds pretty low.  Sorry for your loss.
DeDe
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #18 –
Hi Judy so sorry for your disaster. We just purchased a 2000 30IB for around $16,000. It needed a good bit of work on genset and paint and dash A/C but we thought it was a very good price. Insurance companies are always negotiable and from delaing with them on the loss of our 5th wheel they either have to pay you an agreed upon amount or fix it. They have no other choice. i would go to RVtrader and ebay and find every model like yours and compile a list to send them. Hope it goes smotth for ya. -The Roddams
The Ramblin' Roddams
Jared & Haley Roddam
Tudo & Roxi Roddam (furchildren)
Lazy Daisy (2000 30IB)
Smartie (2008 Smart Fortwo Toad)
Wander Often; Wander Always.
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #19 –
Quote from: theramblinroddams  - 
Hi Judy so sorry for your disaster. We just purchased a 2000 30IB for around $16,000. It needed a good bit of work on genset and paint and dash A/C but we thought it was a very good price. Insurance companies are always negotiable and from delaing with them on the loss of our 5th wheel they either have to pay you an agreed upon amount or fix it. They have no other choice. i would go to RVtrader and ebay and find every model like yours and compile a list to send them. Hope it goes smotth for ya. -The Roddams

If you have a "stated or agreed value" policy that is more or less true. However, be sure to read the the payment language in the policy because I have seen them say they will pay the stated value or actual cash value whichever is less.

Also, in some states, Florida for example, insurers are required to total a vehicle if the cost to repair hits 80% of the value and a rebuildable title can't be issued. Unless that has changed since I was last involved. So, state law can impact total loss settlements. The insurer can also deem a vehicle a total loss at a lower threshold and there can be good reasons for doing so.

Jim
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #20 –
In 2007 I bought my 1996 23.5 FL, same color as the OP, mine just has the old V-8. It had 86,000 miles on it, I bought from the original owners who took very good care of it.
I had missed out on two others in the last year or so and was glad I caught this one as quick as I did.
I paid $17,000 and have been very happy with my purchase in the more than 9 years I've owned it.
Jota
96 23.5 FL
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #21 –
I posted a couple weeks ago for help on getting a fair settlement out of our insurance company after our 2000 23 ft FL Lazy Daze was destroyed in a fire.    I  was so pleased with the responses from so many of you.

Thank you for the 'wayback' machine info which enabled me to get the specs and features list  for our beloved LD.     The Lazy Daze factory also came through and gave us the exact original price of the rig as well as the options that were ordered at the time.

Thanks Ed for the original brochure from 2000 --- I included that also in our paperwork.    And thanks to all who recommended including  improvements we had made as well as other work we had done --- that showed the insurance company that the rig had been well maintained.   We had lost the original receipts in the fire, but were able to come up with credit card statements and cancelled checks.    I won't yell at my hubby anymore about keeping so many years of those kinds of things.

Luckily, I had taken a bunch of pics of the LD in various places over the 4 years we owned it and they showed the overall great outside condition and since we had travelled with our great nephews in it and they are very photogenic, I also had a bunch of good interior shots.

That said, I thought our insurance company treated us very fairly.    The appraiser couldn't find any recent 23 foot sales so used 2 comps of 26 foot LD's and adjusted from there.     We got the appraisal this morning and the money this afternoon.

Now, the big task ahead is to find a new LD.    There seem to be several 26 foot ones available lately, but we are still wanting (we think) to stick to the shorter rig.

Once again ---- Thanks to all

Judy and Bob

I thought I would show a picture of it when it was in its prime.....
Judy
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #22 –
I have a 1994 Airstream. It is in great shape other than hail damage.
I'm wondering if I should turn it in to my insurance company or sell it out right.
As I understand it. And insurance company will us the RV NADA blue book value
to determine the value.

If I use the NADA blue book to value my Airstream, the book shows a value of between $4 to $5k. This price is laughable.
I see the same year and model Airstreams selling between $12 to $20k depending on conditions,
I have many upgrades to my Airstream and can sho receipts.

Can you suggest an pointers when dealing with insurance companies?

Thanks!
Mark

2002 30' IB
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #23 –
"I thought I would show a picture of it when it was in its prime....."

Hey, would you kindly move your rig... you're in my space!   >:(  :D
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?
Reply #24 –
Quote from: NADAZE!  - 
I have a 1994 Airstream. It is in great shape other than hail damage.
I'm wondering if I should turn it in to my insurance company or sell it out right.
As I understand it. And insurance company will us the RV NADA blue book value
to determine the value.

If I use the NADA blue book to value my Airstream, the book shows a value of between $4 to $5k. This price is laughable.
I see the same year and model Airstreams selling between $12 to $20k depending on conditions,
I have many upgrades to my Airstream and can sho receipts.

Can you suggest an pointers when dealing with insurance companies?

Thanks!
Mark



Mark, I think you will find the answers here in the thread they are referring to.

HELP !! will anyone who purchased a 1995-2002 23-24 used LD share the price?

Jim