Are LD rated for 4 seasons/cold weather? (was Newbie question)

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November 28, 2016, 09:49:52 am

Hi Folks.
I'll make this short and sweet. I'm a current full-time RVer. My current RV is a 1994 Airstream trailer.
I'm considering purchasing a 31 foot 2000 Lazy Daze motorhome. Can you tell me if Lazy Daze motorhomes are rated four Four-seasons?
Thank you in advance,

Mark Williams
St. James, MO

[edited topic title to be more descriptive - Michelle]

Re: Newbie question

Reply #1 – November 28, 2016, 01:25:49 pm

There are several possible answers, Mark. To start with the simplest answer, the RV Consumer Group rated all Lazy Dazes for three seasons, last time I looked. (They did assign their highest quality rating of five stars, shared only by two other class C motorhomes: Born Free and Coach House Platinum.)

On the other hand, many of us are living and traveling full time in our Lazy Dazes (and not just the 31' models!). This poll is a few years old, but gives a rough idea of the usage distribution. So depending upon your preferences--and of course on where you camp at various times of the year--Lazy Dazes certainly can be used year round. I've been living in mine for more than eleven years now, and I'm not the only one.

Re: Newbie question

Reply #2 – November 28, 2016, 01:27:17 pm

I have done a few days in snow skiing, snowmobiling and just for fun. There are many things you can do to keep things working. I could list them but bottom line I don't think you will be happy for very long in really cold weather. People are snowbirds for a reason. LOL!

Re: Newbie question

Reply #3 – November 28, 2016, 02:16:41 pm

A four season RV usually has heated holding tanks, as well as heated exterior storage bays. LDs do not have either.
Electric heaters can be added to the tanks, as well as insulation.
We have camped in very cold conditions, without hookups, but for only for a few days at a time. With electric hookups, longer term cold weather camping is more practical.

Re: Newbie question

Reply #4 – November 29, 2016, 05:33:26 pm

We did our first trip this weekend to the desert where the low was 32 each night, I don't think the Lazy Daze is insulated enough for long term living at that temperature. We burned a lot of propane staying warm and chose to top off the tank after only 2 nights! You could certainly add some insulation to the boxes, tank heaters and come up with some way of better insulating the windows but it won't come ready for winter living. The many large windows are great for looking out of but also leak a lot of heat.

Re: Newbie question

Reply #5 – November 29, 2016, 05:49:37 pm

Quote from: 3Bostons - November 29, 2016, 05:33:26 pm

We did our first trip this weekend to the desert where the low was 32 each night, I don't think the Lazy Daze is insulated enough for long term living at that temperature. We burned a lot of propane staying warm and chose to top off the tank after only 2 nights! You could certainly add some insulation to the boxes, tank heaters and come up with some way of better insulating the windows but it won't come ready for winter living. The many large windows are great for looking out of but also leak a lot of heat.

This topic was recently discussed a bit in the following thread ... Winterizing Tips?. Some of those suggestions are immensely helpful when trying to keep the warm inside and the cold outside. In addition, a search of the LDO forum shows many more Winter/Cold Camping topics, which might be helpful.

In addition, if you review the model changes in the following link, you'll see some changes that have helped keep the LD a bit warmer during colder times. Changes by year

Finally, we dry camped for 14 days earlier this year with temps below freezing at night and our propane lasted the entire time. When we filled up our propane, the tank still had several gallons of propane. Hope some of this is helpful to you.

Re: Newbie question

Reply #6 – November 29, 2016, 08:15:14 pm

Quote from: Andy Baird - November 28, 2016, 01:25:49 pm

There are several possible answers, Mark. To start with the simplest answer, the RV Consumer Group rated all Lazy Dazes for three seasons, last time I looked. (They did assign their highest quality rating of five stars, shared only by two other class C motorhomes: Born Free and Coach House Platinum.)

On the other hand, many of us are living and traveling full time in our Lazy Dazes (and not just the 31' models!). This poll is a few years old, but gives a rough idea of the usage distribution. So depending upon your preferences--and of course on where you camp at various times of the year--Lazy Dazes certainly can be used year round. I've been living in mine for more than eleven years now, and I'm not the only one.

Quote from: Larry Wade - November 28, 2016, 02:16:41 pm

A four season RV usually has heated holding tanks, as well as heated exterior storage bays. LDs do not have either.
Electric heaters can be added to the tanks, as well as insulation.
We have camped in very cold conditions, without hookups, but for only for a few days at a time. With electric hookups, longer term cold weather camping is more practical.

So that begs the question, who makes a four season class C?

Re: Newbie question

Reply #7 – November 29, 2016, 08:48:38 pm

Mark--

If you decide to go for an LD, give a holler--it would be nice to have a member of the ~~cult~~, er, club, in MO...I'm just up the road a piece in Chillicothe. By-the-by...do they still make the "world's best vacuum cleaner" in St. James, MO?

I've not done anything long-term, but I spent New Year's and a couple more nights in Denver two years ago. I wasn't plugged in on the street in front of my Aunt's retirement facility in Englewood, but my house batts were full from the drive across KS; unfortunately, I forgot snow on the solar panels impacted recharging the batts & I had to run the genny some, but the dog kept my toes warm under the covers. The link to winterizing tips from Ed/Traxless is good.

I found everything I wanted in my LD, but there are certainly tradeoffs & adaptations when bringing a SoCal baby to live in MO.

Good luck.

Lynne

Re: Newbie question

Reply #8 – November 29, 2016, 08:52:35 pm

Mark, this is NOT what most do, but will give you a sense of what a LD can handle. I bought mine, new, in 2008. In January, 2009, I was parked in my driveway in NJ, living in the RV as I emptied my home to sell it. NJ had an unusual cold snap. The temperature was never above zero for a week, and got as low as -20 at one point. I had all access spaces opened and had the furnace set to heat the interior to the low 70's. My water heater was left on the entire time.

I was comfortable in shorts and Tee shirt, and my fresh water supply was fine. No lines froze.

I did have two problems. The short drain line from the black water tank froze, and the drain plus tank for grey water froze. it took until Florida, a week above freezing, before I stopped hearing a block of ice sliding around in my grey water tank.

Cautions and caveats - you are looking at a 2000 rig, and mine is 2008. I have thermopane windows, but I believe you do not. I have foam insulation. I don't know what yours has.

These days, I winter in southern New Mexico. We get some snow and some cold weather, but not much. I have seen it -5 here, but three days later I was hiking in a tee shirt. When I know sub-freezing weather is on the way, I dump my tanks so I will have time for the drains to thaw before I have to dump again. I open the access panels and boost the temperature a bit. I have spent every winter for the past 8 years this way, and so far, all is fine.

Would I spend a month or so in Montana or Wyoming mid-winter? No. The fresh water system could handle it, but the waste system would freeze, and would take quite a while above freezing before it thawed. I hope that is helpful.

Ken F in NM

Re: Newbie question

Reply #9 – November 29, 2016, 10:50:44 pm

Back in the day, Bigfoot, Canadian made had 4 seasons class C rigs.
There were even some that had been converted to 4wd, I saw them at a dealer
south of Denver. This was before I was ready to buy, but I considered them pretty well made.
Now, after a bankrupcy, they no longer do class C's, but I believe still make some nice truck campers
and travel trailers.

Re: Newbie question

Reply #10 – November 30, 2016, 01:13:07 pm

Quote from: HiLola - November 29, 2016, 08:15:14 pm

So that begs the question, who makes a four season class C?

Big Foot is the only one I know of. They were well insulated but paid the price by being very heavy.
Actually no RV is going performing cold weather like a well built house, RV's wall are too thin for much insulation and have too much surface area for heat to escape from.
The dual pane windows, used in LDs since 2003, do not significantly improve the window's thermal insulation, due to the aluminum frames, the aluminum transfer heat very efficiently. The dual panes do decrease outside noise better but do suffer from air leaks, as they age.

You can do all sorts of things to improve the cold weather performance.
Mentioned are blankets over the cab opening and pads in the vent covers.
I insulated the hatch cover with two layers of closed cell foam, Besides restricting heat flow, it also block the light.
Insulated escape hatch | Flickr
Keeping the cab's HVAC control in the "OFF" position, while parked, will keep cold air from entering through the dash vents.

Sheets of Reflectix bubble insulation can be cut to fit the inside of each window.
Reflectix ST16025 Staple Tab Insulation 16 Inch x 25 ft Roll - Weatherproofin...
Place sheets of it under the couch cushions for additional insulation.

The various exterior storage compartment, located above the floor level, exposed the interior to cold and drafts through the poorly sealed and insulated walls and hatch covers. I caulk all the interior seams of the storage compartments and line any of the walls, that come in contact with the interior with 3/4" Polyisocyanurate foam board. Most of the walls are 1/8" paneling, which offer next to no insulative qualities.
31' IBs have all sorts of air leaks and exposure to the cold, coming in from the exterior storage compartment's storage doors. In all models the couches and cabinets may have the same issues. In rear kitchen models, you can see the kitchen, through one of the exterior cargo compartments, when the hatch door is open.

Drafts can be tracked down by sealing the rig up and then running the two Fantastic fans on full-speed exhaust.. This pulls a vacuum on the interior and allows the tracking of leaks. Use something like a stick of burning incense to 'see' the air flow from the door, windows and any other places it sneaks in.
The entry door's frame can bend and can have multiple leaks. It is worth the time to adjust the door frame and to make sure the weatherstripping is working correctly, without leaks.

If you are hard core, the holding tanks can have electric heating pads applied. Closed cell insulation can then be used to wrap the tanks. While I have not done this, I have wrapped the holding tank's drain valves, and piping. with electric heating tape and then a double wrap of closed-cell insulated tape. This allow dumping in freezing weather, if done before the tanks freeze. The valves and external piping will freeze many hours before the tanks will.
Winterizing holding tanks | Flickr
Frost King 12 ft. Water Pipe Heat Cable-HC12A - The Home Depot
Armacell 2 in. x 30 ft. R-1 Foam Insulation Tape-TAP18230 - The Home Depot
If both the tanks and valves are heated and insulated, it should allow year round use, as long as 120-voltshore power is available .

In cold and windy weather, heat loss through the door can be serious. For longer term cold-weather camping, constructing a skirt or wall, around the lower perimeter of the RV, slows or prevents the flow of air under the rig and will make a huge difference in interior comfort. I have seen everything from skirts constructed of naugahyde to walls made of plywood or hay bails.

One or two catalytic heaters, along with a pair electric heaters. should be part of your winter gear.
Lastly, we installed and have used a 12-volt mattress heater for over a decade, to warm our bedding at night,
A half hour of pre-heat takes the chill out of freezing bedding and allows cold muscles to relax.
On a very cold night, it's one of our favorites excesses. We do not run it once in bed, the power consumption is too great, unless shore power is available.

A couple pieces of clothing that should be considered for winter camping are lined jeans and ski bibs.
Both LL Bean and Cabelas sell flannel and fleece lined jeans...gosh they are nice on a frigid winter day.
I wore them for years when working outside, on night time construction projects.
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/23962
There is nothing more comfortable, when sitting around a campfire in cold weather, than a pair of ski bibs. They eliminate the cold spot in you back, where wind tried to get in.
I picked up a pair of used rental ski bibs years ago, at a end of the winter season sale. No need to buy new.

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Newbie question

Reply #11 – November 30, 2016, 01:29:58 pm

Excellent information- thanks, Larry! Bookmarked and printed out for future reference!

Re: Newbie question

Reply #12 – November 30, 2016, 06:40:45 pm

Fleece lined jeans and ski bibs... ? Hmmm.

But surely these items are not worn in bed, yes?

Since a lot of heat is lost through your topknot, w/hair or not, I find a sleeping cap is worth its weight in gold. Try the one I have...
Carhartt Men's Firesteel Hat, Charcoal Heather, One Size at Amazon Menâ€™s...
You'll be surprised how much warmer you'll sleep.

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Newbie question

Reply #13 – November 30, 2016, 08:04:11 pm

For really cold nights, I have a down-filled, faux fur-lined aviator helmet, ear flaps and all. Definitely keeps my topknot warm!

Virtual hugs,

Judie

Re: Newbie question