Surge Power Protector Question

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Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #25 – February 09, 2023, 02:59:22 pm

Quote from: Jane and Scott - February 08, 2023, 07:27:24 pm

Home Depot in Mexico also sells a small 15 Amp regulator for about $80 that is ideal for a Class B with a small A/C. It cannot handle a standard 13.5 A/C, but will run a microwave. It comes in a Red & White Box.

This sounds a lot like an autotransformer, as Andy described.
I have no other ideas on how it could regulate voltage, I would investigate deeper before spending any money on one.

FYI, our LD's microwave draws as much or more power as the rooftop A/C.

Larry

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #26 – February 10, 2023, 12:51:05 pm

"Home Depot in Mexico also sells a small 15 Amp regulator for about $80"

That's interesting. The "Autoformer" products for 50 A RVs that I mentioned start at $600, so $80 sounds pretty cheap even for a 15 A version. I did find something on Home Depot's website that might fit the bill: this 20 A adjustable "voltage regulator".

This is what the electrical engineers I used to work with called a "Variac" (probably a brand name), and if I remember correctly it is a type of autotransformer. People who restore old radios and TVs use these to slowly ramp up the power to a suspect piece of equipment, in order to minimize the chance of a sudden catastrophic failure--if it starts to smell, or parts feel too warm when you touch them, you can stop before they catch fire.

I suppose you could use this to compensate for consistently low line voltage, which I've read is common in Mexico. I'm not sure whether it would automatically stabilize a fluctuating line voltage, the way a Hughes Autoformer is supposed to do. Since it's limited to 20 amps, it would have limited usefulness for a Lazy Daze, but might work well for a small class B RV, as Jane & Scott said.

The way these devices work is to convert amperage to voltage. For example, if you're drawing 15 A at 100 V, the transformer can boost that to 120 V--but it'll be drawing 18+ amps in order to do so. If a significant number of campers are using these, it will make the power situation worse for everyone else. Remember that campground in Lee Vining I mentioned a while back--the one where the power dipped as low as 99 volts? There were a couple of larger rigs there with Hughes Autoformers sitting next to them, which undoubtedly made a bad situation worse for the rest of us.

There's just no substitute for having enough shore power available.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #27 – February 10, 2023, 01:20:22 pm

"This is what the electrical engineers I used to work with called a "Variac" (probably a brand name),..."

Variac indeed, and yes, a brand name. During my stint as an instructor in the Air Force these could be seen in every classroom. They were used to power a simulation breadboard for illustration purposes. Not a good use for low voltage RV problems.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #28 – February 10, 2023, 01:26:09 pm

I found the link discussing different ways to protect RV from bad shore power where the voltage regulator is discussed.
Andy, they discussed the Hughes device also.

Power Issues

Any info any of you figure out on this would be appreciated. Jane

UPDATE:
The ISB Sola Basic voltage regulator, $200 US, the article mentioned could not be found in Home Depot Mexico pages (maybe sold elsewhere).

Here is a link to the Mexico Home Depot web page when I searched for voltage regulator (Spanish spelling) it gave this info. Pesos is about $19-$20 for US dollars, that varies over time so no idea what it was when the article was written.

Note: Google translator is your friend if you don't know Spanish, you can use the camera feature, point it at the text and it will translate for you (give it a couple of seconds).

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #29 – February 10, 2023, 01:47:19 pm

That's a good article, Jane & Scott--thanks for posting the link. Unfortunately, while it mentions the $80 15 amp regulator you mentioned, and even has a photo...

... it doesn't link to the product or give a name and manufacturer, and the photo is too small to read the manufacturer or model number. I thought I saw something like this while searching Home Depot's site for autotransformers, but now I can't find it. :: sigh ::

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #30 – February 10, 2023, 07:03:06 pm

"They were used to power a simulation breadboard..."

I must be getting senile because I now recall that the wife used one of them to power our American standard 110v kitchen appliances in Germany on their 220v power system.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #31 – February 11, 2023, 02:58:10 pm

Quote from: Jane and Scott - February 08, 2023, 07:27:24 pm

Home Depot in Mexico also sells a small 15 Amp regulator for about $80

I couldnâ€™t find that one either but Amazon sells an APC Line-R LE1200 automatic voltage regulator for $68.88. At 1200VA (120V @ 10A) it wonâ€™t run the AC or microwave but could be useful for sensitive electronic gear; ie computers, satellite TV, StarLink internet, etc. I donâ€™t own one and Iâ€™m only going by the specs, but it says the output regulation is +6% to -12%. So it should be able to safely handle pedestal swings from around 106-127V as long as you donâ€™t exceed 10A.

- John

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Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #32 – February 11, 2023, 07:26:26 pm

Thanks for posting that, John. It looks potentially useful for small loads. I did see that one purchaser said this:

In the 110VAC position, it will float from about 96.5VAC to 116.5VAC without doing any correction.
Over 116.5, it will Trim 10% off whatever voltage it is fed.
Below 96.5, it will Boost 20% to whatever voltage it gets.
It does this by changing the tap on the internal transformer.

96.5 V may be too low for some appliances, so one would want to use this with caution.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #33 – February 11, 2023, 08:43:22 pm

Quote from: Andy Baird - February 11, 2023, 07:26:26 pm

Thanks for posting that, John. It looks potentially useful for small loads. I did see that one purchaser said this:

In the 110VAC position, it will float from about 96.5VAC to 116.5VAC without doing any correction.
Over 116.5, it will Trim 10% off whatever voltage it is fed.
Below 96.5, it will Boost 20% to whatever voltage it gets.
It does this by changing the tap on the internal transformer.

96.5 V may be too low for some appliances, so one would want to use this with caution.

Agree, but I think it would be more useful to set the nominal output voltage to 120V when in the USA. That way the boost will kick in 10V sooner (around 106V). There’s a switch on the back of the unit that sets the nominal output to 110V, 120V or 127V.

- John

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #34 – February 11, 2023, 11:16:24 pm

"There’s a switch on the back of the unit that sets the nominal output to 110V, 120V or 127V."

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I couldn't tell from product photos what the settings were. I even went so far as to download the owner's manual, but it says "The Line-R provides a three-position User Selectable Voltage Switch for adjusting the input voltage for the region where it is being used (Example: Russia - 220 V, Denmark - 230 V, United Kingdom - 240 V)." Obviously the manual I found was for a European version of the product. So yes--as you said, for the US version the 120 V setting would be the one to use.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #35 – February 11, 2023, 11:27:17 pm

Andy, sorry I thought I posted the link to the Mexican Home Depot web page for voltage regulators and didn’t.

Here is the link.
It is in Spanish, google translate app is our friend - there is a camera icon, choose it and point the camera at your screen with the Spanish text.

Resultados de tu búsqueda;

The picture in the article looks like this one
REGULADOR DE VOLTAJE 800 W GRIS KOBLENZ | The Home Depot México

Exchange rate right now about 18.50 or 18.75 pesos for 1 US dollar.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #36 – February 12, 2023, 12:04:30 am

The manual for this Progressive EMS says:" • RV wiring is different than house wiring. In an RV, neutral and ground conductors are isolated whereas in a house they are bonded at the service panel. Therefore;
never connect neutral and ground as this can result in a ground fault condition, electric shock, and/or a fire hazard." In my power distribution box, ('99 TKB), just like in a house, the neutral and ground are connected together, so not true! Every trailer or motorhome I've ever worked on is connected the same as the Lazy Daze electrical. I haven't worked on that many, but still.... I don't know who wrote that manual, but that 'blanket statement' seem to not be the case. RonB
[/quote]
I have read that somewhere about neutral and ground not being tied together within the RV, but stating they would be tied together as soon as you plug the RV in to a (correctly wired, good luck with that) RV park or whatever outlet were the ground and neutral will be bonded at the electrical panel for where you are plugging in. I don’t recall ever checking if neutral and ground wires are tied to each other within any of the three RV’s I have owned.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #37 – February 12, 2023, 10:52:57 am

Quote from: Andy Baird - February 07, 2023, 12:19:49 pm

A Progressive industries EMS is the solution that many of us have chosen. Yes, it's inconvenient to have shore power suddenly cut off on a cold morning or a hot afternoon, but it beats buying a new air conditioner after low voltage causes yours to burn out.

Over the years I've camp in all sorts on RV campgrounds. From cheap to high end. I have found there is NO relationship between price of campgrounds and 'clean' electric hookups. I was told by a Disney ($100 a night) California licensed electrician my electric hookup was ok when my EMS showed it wasn't. When we moved to a different site on a different loop all was ok. Later that day another electrician told us we were correct and the other person was wrong. The lesson is always check and use safety gear. It cheaper in the long run.

glen.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #38 – February 12, 2023, 06:52:59 pm

Hi Jay; well I have to retract my comment. I opened up my power distribution center and the grounds are Not connected to the neutral. Indeed the place I plug into, either a pedestal, or my 30Amp connection on the house, at the load center are the places where the the neutrals are connected to grounds. I think a lot of misinterpretations are caused by the negative side of the 12 volt system being connected to chassis grounds, but not the neutrals of the 110VAC.
   Many places on the internet did state that the ground and neutrals are connected (bonded being the word used for a connection). But only at a distribution point. I'm not sure that a pedestal is bonded either. More likely that also is connected at the incoming power line where an actual earth ground is present. Usually a grounding rod driven into the earth. (Water pipes are an unreliable connection, depending on the chemistry of the pipes in my opinion.)
   If I were designing an RV park distribution system, I would want any possible ground current caused by a fault at a particular RV, to be contained in a local area instead of traveling underground to just one grounded area at a main panel. I would have multiple real ground connections spread out, especially locations with frequent lightning. A very rare occurrence here in Southern Cal. RonB

   edit: And of course just hours after I wrote this, a storm cell went by with at least one known lightning strike!

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #39 – February 12, 2023, 09:39:11 pm

Here is the text for the link of the actual product at Home Depot Mexico:

Product Information
Koblenz voltage regulator, cares for and protects electrical appliances from discharges or voltage variations within the home or office.

elaborate with a gray housing made of resistant plastic with 8 outlets (3-prong), suitable for screens, from 19 to 50 inches, DVD, Blu Ray, radio, videogames, monitors, speakers, modems and audio equipment.

It has a capacity of 800 watts, surge suppression of 134 joules and input range from 95 to 145 volts, also has disconnection high voltage automatic.

Technical specs in picture attached. The picture would not attach I will try again when I get back to our starlink.

Does this seem like the same one as found in Amazon?

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #40 – February 13, 2023, 01:22:13 am

Inicio - ISB Industrias Sola Basic
The 4kva is 30amp the 8kv is 50amp

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #41 – February 14, 2023, 02:26:43 am

We have a Hughes Autoformer. Can provide up to a 10% voltage boost to help protect against the dangers of low voltage, in additional to surge protection. Very well-built product. We've been very happy with it.

Re: Surge Power Protector Question

Reply #42 – February 16, 2023, 08:20:14 pm

As I understand it it autotransformers trade volts for amps and vise versa. Seems to me low amps are just as bad as low volts.
My thinking would be to move or demand 'clean' electricity.
I do understand filling the gaps for a small amount but in the long run I'd feel safer if I didn't have to compensate for others short comings.

glen.

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Reply #25 – February 09, 2023, 02:59:22 pm

Reply #26 – February 10, 2023, 12:51:05 pm

Reply #27 – February 10, 2023, 01:20:22 pm

Reply #28 – February 10, 2023, 01:26:09 pm

Reply #29 – February 10, 2023, 01:47:19 pm

Reply #30 – February 10, 2023, 07:03:06 pm

Reply #31 – February 11, 2023, 02:58:10 pm

Reply #32 – February 11, 2023, 07:26:26 pm

Reply #33 – February 11, 2023, 08:43:22 pm

Reply #34 – February 11, 2023, 11:16:24 pm

Reply #35 – February 11, 2023, 11:27:17 pm

Reply #36 – February 12, 2023, 12:04:30 am

Reply #37 – February 12, 2023, 10:52:57 am

Reply #38 – February 12, 2023, 06:52:59 pm

Reply #39 – February 12, 2023, 09:39:11 pm

Reply #40 – February 13, 2023, 01:22:13 am

Reply #41 – February 14, 2023, 02:26:43 am

Reply #42 – February 16, 2023, 08:20:14 pm

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