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Topic: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar (Read 1512 times) previous topic - next topic
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Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar

We seldom watch TV,  while it's nice to be able to watch it sometimes we have many other options when we want to veg out.

That said, the batwing has seen better days and is always in the way when I need to get topside and it collects trash underneath it.

I am wondering if anyone that has replaced their batwing with one of the antenna's like a Rayzar tested before they did the replacement to see if reception stayed the same, improved or degraded. This would only be meaningful if you were in the same place before and after the replacement.

Winegard RZ-6000 Rayzar

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #1 –
Hi Don. I don't know anything about the Rayzar. I was having signal strength problems with my 'batwing' and got an older version of this King Jack antenna. Turned out the lead-in wire was bad with an intermittent connection inside my roof. Fixing the wire improved my signal, so I can't tell how much this antenna improved reception, but it certainly decreased the footprint size on my roof. With a 'TK', the roof area is small. The 'Jack' antenna fits onto the old Winegard crank-up antenna mast. My previous model 'Jack' antenna head I had to add a right angle cable adaptor and the connection was away from the mast, making it easier to snag the cable. This newer version seems to have the antenna cable connection inside the mast. RonB
King Jack replacement head:  King Jack OA8300 White Replacement RV Antenna Head - Walmart.com
    Also available through Amazon.
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #2 –
You trying to confuse me, Ron? Grin. It's really easy to do.
I used the Rayzyr as an example of an antenna that is not on a jack. I would like to do away with it.
I wonder if an antenna mounted to roof 30 inches lower than one on a jack would make much difference in reception. Sometimes we get good reception not putting it up. Other times it's required, perhaps to open line of sight due to the ac.

In the link, you posted the first one shown is titled King Jack Directional HDTV RV Antenna with Signal Finder & Mount.
But the picture shows it to be mounted to the roof, not on a jack. They have several models at different prices, but little to explain the differences. They are all directional like the Rayzar and the batwing, which may produce better reception???

Would really like to hear from someone that did before and after test.

I did hear a positive report from a friend on this
I replaced our batwing two+years ago with the Rayzar mounting it in the short configuration.
Several years before that I added the Winegard Sensar signal amp which helped peak the aiming of the antenna with a signal strength meter. This also works with the Rayzar ant. Having the shorter mask arms helps getting about on the roof and it doesn’t scratch the roof surface as much if at all.
I think the reception is just fine if not better than before. The good part is it is directional in 2 opposing directions (off the front & back of the flat surface).  I did have to shorten the RG6 coax which was no problem. Less than an hour to install. Glad I did it.

Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #3 –
I doubt you’ll find someone who did an “in-place” before and after test, but I did replace my batwing with a Razar and found that it seemed to perform just like the wing, no better no worse. At the moment, it’s not performing at all, having been ripped off and lost in some “mysterious”accident. I now have a naked mast with a short length of cable protruding. Sigh. — Jon
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #4 –
A few years ago we replaced our batwing with a fixed Jack antenna and my impression is there was no change in reception compared to the batwing with wingman.

Jim C
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
I am wondering if anyone that has replaced their batwing with one of the antenna's like a Rayzar tested before they did the replacement to see if reception stayed the same, improved or degraded.

I've wondered the exact same thing.  As I have crawled about the roof, I thought that the air conditioner might reduce reception with a lower mount antenna.  I've been relucant to add this antenna to my now empty To-Do List.

Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #6 –
"...my now empty To-Do List."
---
Ed, I don't remember ever hearing an LD owner say the s/he had an "empty to-do list"! I don't think it's possible! Look again; you must have missed a "cash outflow tweak" opportunity!  ;)
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #7 –
Quote from: Jon & Loni  - 
I doubt you’ll find someone who did an “in-place” before and after test, but I did replace my batwing with a Razar and found that it seemed to perform just like the wing, no better no worse. At the moment, it’s not performing at all, having been ripped off and lost in some “mysterious” accident. I now have a naked mast with a short length of cable protruding. Sigh. — Jon

You are probably right about an A/B test. I asked Jim C to do it when he replaced his batwing. I did not think it was asking much to count stations before and after. But I was wrong about that. It would be something I would do for my own edification.

You bring up an excellent point with your “mysterious” accident. I find I am getting more and more careless about overhanging branches. Slim chance of losing the batwing.

And another private note from a guy I will call Mr. Antenna. He knows about such. And note well about loosening and tightening the connections and putting a few drops of oil on the gears every season.

This is going to turn into a Companion piece. It may not have any definitive answers but will provide some information.

With reference to your query about the RV antenna, yes, the batwing is obsolete, but its design was fairly good.  As the reply from RonB to your query said, the F-connectors in the cable sometimes give trouble.  They are not weather tight and the materials used are often suboptimal.  Therefore an undisturbed connector may, from time to time suddenly exhibit a much higher loss.  Typically, just loosening the connector and then swiveling the cable back and forth over a +/- 30-degree range half a dozen times and retightening will solve the problem.

I fixed one reception problem for a LD friend by just unscrewing the F-connector between the batwing and the down lead, looking at it and then screwing it back together.  It worked so I did as the politician does and claimed credit for the rain when the drought ended in my term.

Everyone says that Lazy Daze puts a cable connection in the roof of the coach under the base of the batwing connector.  This connection apparently sometimes gives trouble in older coaches.  I never took mine apart so I don't know for sure.

As for the Winegard RV-6000, it looks like they have overcome the reliability problem of the raise/lower mechanism at the cost of making the coach permanently higher.  When I helped many in our LD group adapt their TV sets to DTV, I found that many of their antenna mechanisms had never been lubed and were very stiff.  I like Winegard stuff as it is normally well engineered and made out of reliable components.

The RV-6000 antenna itself appears to be a cut down version of the batwing combined with the wingman accessory.  It will do well on UHF stations and probably OK on high VHF (channels 7 to 13).  It will do very poorly on channels 2 to 6 (those big floppy elements of the batwing antenna are for those channels).  I was going to say that's OK because there are so few low-VHF stations any more.  But, in checking, I find that there are 841 transmitters on those channels at the moment, many of which are in areas with very low densities of population; i.e. where RVers often camp. (there are a total of 14,095 TV transmitters licensed, (many minuscule) at the moment).

The King Jack antenna most likely will give very similar performance to the RV-6000.  It seems to be designed for those who don't want to tear into the RV's roof to replace the lifting assembly.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
We seldom watch TV,  while it's nice to be able to watch it sometimes we have many other options when we want to veg out.

That said, the batwing has seen better days and is always in the way when I need to get topside and it collects trash underneath it.

I am wondering if anyone that has replaced their batwing with one of the antenna's like a Rayzar tested before they did the replacement to see if reception stayed the same, improved or degraded. This would only be meaningful if you were in the same place before and after the replacement.

Winegard RZ-6000 Rayzar


Ron ... some not very favorable customer reviews.

Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Winegard RZ-6000 Rayzar z1 RV TV Antenna (HD,...

"After losing the Jayco OEM original antenna - maybe a low tree branch (same as sold on Amazon) - bought a replacement one from Amazon. The snap in is weak and frankly dangerous. A safety cable should be part of this design since only small plastic tabs hold it in place. A center bolt would be much more secure. Had this been jarred loose and fell of on an interstate - it could be dangerous. So lost the Amazon replace one week after install."

"Thought this might be better than the batwing. I was having trouble picking up an NBC affiliate where I am currently parked. Installed this Rayzar and picked up only 1/2 of the stations I was getting with the batwing. This one is going back!"

"Bought the hype and bought this. Averaged 15 to 20 stations with the old batwing. With this I get 6 or 8. Can't recommend this antenna."
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #9 –
I have replaced several antennas, including a King Jack, and they all seem to work about the same, when operational, bringing in about the same amount of channels. This includes replacing a good, conventional Winegard with the Sensor UHF version.
Several antennas have been damaged Winegards,  ripped off or torn to bits by tree branches.

Turning on the power switch at the wall plate has the biggest effect, providing 12-volt power to the antenna's signal amplifier.
Check the cable, at the roof end, for 12-volt power. The cable does double duty, providing power to the antenna head and carrying the signal back to the TV set.

Many older LDs have decayed antenna lead-in cables and need replacement or, sometimes, just a new plug.
A bad cable will negate any antenna improvement .

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #10 –
I have replaced several antennas, including a King Jack, and they all seem to work about the same, when operational, bringing in about the same amount of channels. This includes replacing a functioning, conventional Winegard with the UHF version.
Several have been Winegards that have been ripped off or torn to bits by tree branches.

Turning on the power switch at the wall plate has the biggest effect, providing 12-volt power to the antenna's signal amplifier.
The cable does double duty providing power to the antenna's head and carrying the signal to the TV set.
Check the cable, at the roof end, for 12-volt power, if experiencing poor reception.
Many older LDs have decayed antenna lead-in cables and need replacement or, sometimes, just a new plug.
A bad cable will negate any antenna improvement .

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #11 –
While not directly "on point", Don said he was looking for an antenna that would not have to be jacked up and down, if I understood that right.  Last winter, I thought I had a problem with my batwing antenna.  I was a few miles from the TV broadcast antenna, and the only station I was able to get was an analog station, and it had a snowy signal.  Lots of head scratching, and I suddenly realized I had a second tuner available to me, in my DVR.  I removed the antenna cable from the TV, hooked it up to the DVR, and voila! - good reception, with the number of digital stations in the teens.  My TV tuner was bad.

That doesn't help at all, but here is where it gets worth posting.  While struggling to find the problem, I was talking to my buddy.  He had a Winegard RZ-8500 Rayzar Automatic Amplified HD TV Antenna - Winegard RZ-8500 - Over-the-Air... (I think).  It was supposed to self-align.  In fact, he had no alignment mechanism in his coach - just the coax cable coming in from the antenna screwed to his roof. He tried to use it rather than his Tailgater satellite dish and he got nothing - no stations at all.  It was jammed and would not align.  He bought a replacement and installed it.  It found only 3 digital stations.  The issue was, it locked onto the closest antenna, which was at about 30 deg., and which only carried PBS stations.  There was another, weaker, station almost due north that I selected, which had a lot of stations. 

The point here is that an antenna that self-aligns typically selects the strongest signal rather than the signal with the most stations.  If you choose a disk-style self-aligning antenna, you may get rid of the jack to raise and lower it, but between part of your reception field being blocked by the AC unit and the antenna choosing its own broadcasting antenna, you may be unhappy with the result. 

If you get the RZ-6000, it looks like it lets you pick your own direction, but it will still be sitting below the AC unit.  With those limitations, I suspect that the reception with the RZ-6000 is likely to be less than with the batwing raised above the AC unit and pointed manually.  I know that my friend ended up sending his unit back and bought something that looked similar to the RZ-6000, putting it on a raise-able mast attached to his ladder, and adding a turning and locking mechanism so he could raise and point the antenna manually.  Of course, he had to do so standing outside, while his DW relayed TV signal info to him from inside their RV.  At that point, his reception became EQUAL to my batwing.

Personally, I will stick with the batwing style, and won't worry about crud accumulating under it.

Ken F in WY
'08 MB
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #12 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
I used the Rayzyr as an example of an antenna that is not on a jack. I would like to do away with it.

This one should clear that pesky AC and no cranking required!  :D
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #13 –
Hi Don. The link I provided for the King Jack antenna head from WalMart, started with the "consider these other popular products" sequence of pictures and started with the roof mounted low antenna. If you scroll down a bit you will see the Winegard mast mounted King-Jack antenna head. Just $50 or so. As low as $38 on E-bay. I replaced my original Sensar head about two yeas ago with the previous King Jack head, (no longer available, replaced by the improved  OA8300).  I believe the 25 year newer electronics inside the antenna head to be superior at amplifying the incoming RF signals. With TV tuners in new televisions, the ATSC  tuner will not show poor signals, with brief 'pixelated' pieces at really borderline signal strength.
  The slightly higher profile when laid down on the roof might catch branches easier than the 'batwing' did, but at just 4" high you will hit other things also, A/C, vent covers etc. The old mast will raise the new antenna head about three feet above the motorhome roof ground plane just fine. Signal strength should be best when up, but in strong signal locations it can be just about anywhere, and pointing in any direction. When you swing it around to point it, It's smaller diameter should hit fewer things. As Larry said, many times the lead in cable is in terrible shape. I replaced mine with RG-6U, a lower loss cable than the original RG-59U. The cable inside the motorhome walls and ceiling remain the same impedance 75 ohm RG-59U.
  Terry Tanner covered this conversion in a tech talk. He committed the same error that many others do. (thanks Terry, it probably prevented me from doing the same) The Yagi reflector in the back of the head looks like an arrow pointing the antenna at the station. In reality it 'points' at 180 degrees away from the station, so the 'blunt' end points at the station. That is carefully hidden in those pesky instructions. Also the kit came with a 12vdc. plugin wall wart that just confuses people. The wallplate with the distribution amplifier and on/off switch inside the motorhome provides the 12 volts for the King-Jack head.
  Another mention to confuse people more is: while the TV data is digitally encoded now, the antenna signals are still the old analog RF signals like always. Slightly different frequencies. That is why the old antennas still work with digital TV. To the antenna, it is the same old stuff (analog). It is the tuner in the TV that processes the signals differently. 
  I included a picture of the repaired lead-in cable in my ceiling showing the transition from RG-59U to RG-6U.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #14 –
I asked a simple question and got a mountain of info. Thanks.

I have made up my mind as Ken said I will stick with the batwing, and won't worry about crud accumulating under it. It works and I can continue to step over it. And it is not as likely to hang up on low tree branches.

When the heat breaks in the Fall I should replace the cable on the roof with RG-6U. The original cable looks like it's been in the sun for 11 years. Thanks for that info.

Yes, we had a DVR in the rig for a few years and it did tune better than the TV.

This link TV Fool helps in tuning. Input your zip code and aim the antenna in the direction that has the stations you are interested in. It shows direction and distance from the tower. You need an innate sense of direction or a compass to go along with it. You will get a better reading if you hold the compass away from the walls.

Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #15 –
If you have a smart phone, you're all set. Compass included. :)
2000 Front Lounge
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #16 –
In the "For What It Is Worth" department, Don, I now have a new TV, a 24" Quasar.  Its antenna reception is just as good as with my DVR, so my issue starting out was a dead digital tuner on my RCA TV.  When I replaced the TV, I returned the antenna connection to the TV rather than the DVR.  Why?  When I am boondocking (like now) if I have an antenna signal, I can watch TV without having to have the DVR powered up, thus reducing my power load by one item.  So, my benefit came from replacing the TV, not from switching to the DVR tuner.  That was great for diagnosing the original problem, though.

Ken F in WY
'08 MB
 
Re: Batwing TV Antenna vs something like a Winegard Rayzar
Reply #17 –
I believe Todd told me that the Mothership was going to a different antenna to replace the batwing.  It might be worth a call to see what they are using now.
Ross Taylor
2017 MB