?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

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?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

October 02, 2022, 05:22:07 pm

We are looking at a 31/31’ so we care about CCC. We travel lighter than most but we would like accurate info to make a decision on year LD to buy.

The spec sheets do not make sense in their calculation of CCC
GVWR = max weight of RV [rv as built, any additional accessories added afterwards such solar, all liquids in chassis and coach, everything put into it - people and belongings.]
UVW = weight of LD when it leaves factory [As built plus liquid in chassis - gas, oil, coolant]

So GVWR minus UVW needs to cover fresh water, water in water heater, LP gas, people and belongings
2006 30’ ISLAND BED: GWVR = 14,050. UVW = 12120. [This is confirmed by a door sticker sent to me of model with 1 sofa and.barrel chairs].
2008 31’ Island BED: GWVR = 14,500. UVW = 11780

This means GWVR - UVW (weight you can use for fresh water tank, water heater, LP gas, people, and belongings) when it leaves the factory is:
2006 1930 lbs (14050 - 12120)
2008 2720 lbs (14500 - 11780)
A difference of 790 lbs.
Note 2006 numbers updated after Larry pointed out my number reading flaw (thanks Larry).

The specs say CCC (cargo carrying capacity) = GWVR minus UVW minus weight of fresh water, water heater water, LP gas, and the standard calculations for people weight (154 per person x time official sleeping locations].
Specs give the same numbers for:
Fresh water 60 gal [both 2006 & 2008]
Water heater 6 gal [both 2006 & 2008]
Propane 17 gal [both 2006 & 2008]
People 616 (154x4) [both 2006 and 2008]

The specs list:
CCC - 1184 lbs for (2008)
757 (2006)
That is a difference of 427 (1184-757)
Yet CCC with my corrected GVWR-UWV less tank water, water heater water, people weight, and LP gas weight - all the same both LDs shows it the 2008 31’ should have 790 more CCC than the 2006 30’. Even more off from my original calculations before Larry’s correction.

So my tongue in cheek questions aside (e.g. does water weight more in different LDS), I am guessing the numbers are general and not specific weights for each LD. So if you have 2 barrel chairs plus a table instead of a dinette/sofa/bed you mighty have more CCC than the sticker / specs say.

I know some other manufacturers weigh every coach before it goes out the door and the UVW is accurate.

Does anyone know if your empty coach weight matched the sticker or not?
Or if LD does general weights?
Inquiring minds want to know…

Jane

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #1 – October 02, 2022, 06:17:37 pm

Ford, not LD, improved the weight carrying in 2008.
LD did not weigh the rigs.
The 31 CCC is limited at best. It's the price to have that bed that some lust after.

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #2 – October 02, 2022, 06:54:04 pm

Jane … 2007 - 2008 were years in which Ford and LD made some significant changes to the chassis and the house. (If I remember correctly.). Have you compared the LD specification sheets listed at 1999 to 2021 LD Original Prices, Specifications & Features Information ?

And this information might also be helpful. Changes by year

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #3 – October 02, 2022, 07:50:07 pm

Ed and Margee,
Yes the listed specs where you linked to is what I was using. They matched the stickers on a 2006 model.

Don - to have an accurate UVW the RV has to be weighed after it is fully built. Do you know for sure LD didn’t do weights of each LD made? Or that they used a generic layout for all layout options?
Any info would be useful.

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #4 – October 03, 2022, 12:50:28 am

According to LD's spec sheets, a 2006 30' LD has a GVW of 14,050lbs, in 2008 the GVW was increased to 14,500lbs.

Larry

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #5 – October 03, 2022, 09:48:08 am

Quote from: Jane and Scott - October 02, 2022, 07:50:07 pm

Don - to have an accurate UVW the RV has to be weighed after it is fully built. Do you know for sure LD didn’t do weights of each LD made? Or that they used a generic layout for all layout options?
Any info would be useful.

I am sure you have noticed that "the box" on a say a 2006 and a 2012 are the same, except for fabric, flooring, etc. The weight of the box for an MB, rear kitchen or, rear bath are pretty much the same, tho the weight might shift from the back to the front axle. So it would only be necessary to weigh only when the contents of the box change.

But all that seems to be besides your concern about CCC on a 30/31. The CCC for any model year is, in my never humble opinion, not enough for more than weekend trips to the beach. You would go slow pulling a toad up a 6% grade.

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #6 – October 03, 2022, 12:37:58 pm

FWIW, when I got ORWAN home at the end of April, 2013 I took it to a commercial scale.
The detailed figures are in the log, which is in the rig and not readily available.
Propane full, gas tank filled 5 miles previously and the weight was 11,800. They weight front & rear, and one side but I don't have the figures at hand.
That included driver beside rig. Do not recall, nor would relate WoD.
No water, not even in the water heater.
I generally do not run with more than 10-15 gal in the water tank, and fill at campsite.
According to CatScales over the years, the weight has ranged from 13,800 - 14,300 on trips with 2 pax & 2 dogs.
YMMV

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #7 – October 03, 2022, 12:48:44 pm

Joel, as I figure, your dogs and a 6-pack of beer are pretty close in weight! 😉

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #8 – October 03, 2022, 12:57:31 pm

Quote from: Larry W - October 03, 2022, 12:50:28 am

According to LD's spec sheets, a 2006 30' LD has a GVW of 14,050lbs, in 2008 the GVW was increased to 14,500lbs.

Larry

Larry thanks - I was doing calculations on my tablet while in the car and misread that (despite lots of staring at it). I will go adjust original numbers above.

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #9 – October 03, 2022, 12:59:03 pm

Ahh, Don so your concern is more that you would want a Lot of CCC and a lot of towing weight ability as a general idea, because you want to take lots of things with you.

We have met full time 30’/31’ LDOs who have lots of stuff and can not buy items in bulk because they have no room for larger quantities and others that have half their bins / cabinets empty. While weights need to be done (4 wheel ones best), in general lots more stuff means more weight. It really depends on how someone wants to travel / live, how many in-case items, how many sentimental items, what they want for their hobbies and their lifestyle.

We fall into the have just what we need category (while having everything we really want and will use regularly).

In our sticks and bricks homes, we had tons of stuff - some items we used regularly and a good amount we rarely used.
Big kitchen that could easily have served a family of 10 (vs us two) when we started downsizing and lots of kitchen gadgets/appliances, settings of plates/silverware/cups and mugs and glasses. It worked for 2 working people that wanted to fill the fridge and freezer with items in storage containers (ready when you wanted them), that liked kitchen gadgets, that wanted enough dishes etc. so we could wait until the dishwasher was full before we ran it (every 3-5 days).
But when we changed to what we really needed our RV kitchen items fit into one cabinet of our old kitchen and we feel we have everything we need for people who like to cook including some non electric gadgets.

Downsizing for us was liberating, we don’t need 5 sets of sheets for 2 different beds (2 which rarely got slept in), several extra sets of comforters and blankets for different seasons for each bed, etc. We carry enough and a spare and can always get more (actually right now we have more than one spare, time to downsize some more).

We have the 89 TK Chevy G30. It also has a small CCC. We have no problem going up 6% grades, and when we recently towed up 6% grades it ran even smoother than without towing (like the generator runs smoother under load). I know others had problems with the older G30s and the older fords had issues (some owners did improvements to create more power on them). I have no idea if anyone was running overweight (GVWR or GCWR).

We have successfully full timed in the 89 TK and have not had a problem with the chassis not able to do well - we have been very pleasantly surprised how well it has done under load.
We are looking for more space (we have a few things on our long term wish list that are not a lot more weight) so for us we will be one of the 30/31’ full timers that are able to buy items at Costco still as we will have room & weight for them.

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #10 – October 03, 2022, 01:45:35 pm

Quote from: joel wiley - October 03, 2022, 12:37:58 pm

FWIW, when I got ORWAN home at the end of April, 2013 I took it to a commercial scale.
The detailed figures are in the log, which is in the rig and not readily available.
Propane full, gas tank filled 5 miles previously and the weight was 11,800. They weight front & rear, and one side but I don't have the figures at hand.
That included driver beside rig. Do not recall, nor would relate WoD.
No water, not even in the water heater.
I generally do not run with more than 10-15 gal in the water tank, and fill at campsite.
According to CatScales over the years, the weight has ranged from 13,800 - 14,300 on trips with 2 pax & 2 dogs.
YMMV

Joel, thank you very much for this info.
So according to the specks (link way up above by Ed and Margie):
UVW (weight it leaves the factory, chassis liquids full but not water or propane or people/belongings.
2013 (what Joel owns) = 12,598.
Joels LD weight was 11,800. And Joel had propane full (so it would have been less without that).
That is a big difference (roughly another 1000 ccc).

OCCC was used instead of CCC for 2013 spec, if the standard people weight for this LD (616) is subtracted from the OCCC, so we can compare CCC of 2013 to CCC of 2006 & 2008.
The CCC would be
2013 = 1286 (1902 occc minus 616 people weight 616)
2008 = 1184

So the UVW on the specs is not correct and by a big chunk.
Joel,I don’t remember if you have 2 sofas up front or the barrel chairs with one sofa).

It looks like bottom line, do an actual weighing and don’t trust the specs.

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #11 – October 03, 2022, 04:13:27 pm

Quote from: Jane and Scott - October 03, 2022, 12:59:03 pm

Ahh, Don so your concern is more that you would want a Lot of CCC and a lot of towing weight ability as a general idea, because you want to take lots of things with you.

No, not at all, we have plenty of excess CCC in our MB. I was talking about the lack of CCC in a 31.

Pulling in a 22 can not be compared to pulling in a 31.

I will bow out as we are not on the same page.

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #12 – October 03, 2022, 05:41:52 pm

Quote from: joel wiley - October 03, 2022, 12:37:58 pm

I generally do not run with more than 10-15 gal in the water tank, and fill at the campsite.

Twice, when arriving at a campsite, we have been disappointed to find out that water was unavailable at a supposedly 'wet'site. Both times the closest water was many miles away. We now always travel with a full tank, no matter where we go.

Keeping the rig at home, it's comforting to know the water tank is full and ready for emergencies such as wildfires and earthquakes. We lived on top of epicenter of the Northridge Quake of 1994, it was a strong motivator in buying an RV.

Larry

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #13 – October 04, 2022, 12:16:04 pm

Jane and Scott and any interested parties,

I have four Lazy Daze order packets (2011, 2012, 2014, AND 2016 that included fabrics, standard and optional equipment. Then the final page has coach dimensions, miscellaneous specification (drawers, light fixtures, vents, and outside storage compartments.the final section has coach weights with standard equipment. That section includes an explanation of what each item is:

G.V.W.R.= Gross Vehicle Weight Rating which I am certain was the specification from Ford for the chassis itself.

U.V.W.=Unloaded Vehicle Weight; defined by Lazy Daze as "the weight of the motorhome as built at the factory with full fuel, oil, coolant, and LP-Gas"

W.W.V.= Wet Weight of Vehicle; defined as "No passengers or supplies.Gas tank, fresh water tank, and LP-Gas all full"

O.C.C.C.= Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity. Defined by Lazy Daze as "Allowable Weight available for occupants, fresh water, food, personal items, supplies etc. NOTE: Installed accessories and towed vehicle tongue weight will reduce O.C.C.C.

G.C.W.R.= Gross Combination Weight Rating; "Maximum allowable combined weight of "loaded" motorhome and either "loaded towed vehicle or trailer. NOTE: The standard equipped 2" receiver hitch Rating is 4,000 pounds."

Then there is this note on the bottom of the page and I am leaving it in all capitalized letters as Lazy Daze did:
"DUE TO CHANGES BY VENDORS BEYOND OUR CONTROL COMPONENTS MAY VARY. PRICES AND SPECIFICATIONS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANYTIME WITHOUT PRIOR NOTIFICATION. SOME WEIGHTS SHOWN ARE ESTIMATED. ACTUAL COACH WEIGHTS MAY VARY.

I am very suspicious that Joel's weight figure for his 2013 of 11,800 pounds is accurate for a 31foot Lazy Daze. That figure is much closer to what the 27 footers were. So perhaps Joel made an error? And you are using his probable error to color your calculations.

The 2011 and 2012 list Unloaded Vehicle WEIGHTS of 12,598 pounds for a 31' Island Bed and 12,620 pounds for a 31' Twin Bed.
Those figures for the 2014 and 2016 were 66 pounds more for the 31' rigs.

I hope this helps you figure out things.
Steve K

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #14 – October 04, 2022, 05:01:30 pm

Quote from: Steve K. - October 04, 2022, 12:16:04 pm

. . . .
I am very suspicious that Joel's weight figure for his 2013 of 11,800 pounds is accurate for a 31foot Lazy Daze. That figure is much closer to what the 27 footers were. . . . .
Steve K

Steve K, thank you.
I find I've been living a fairy tale....
I went thru the folders and found the weigh values for 5/5/14.
Rear: 9,240
Front:   4,400
Total   13,660
that's hardly a ton of difference from my recollection.   No idea where 11,800 came from now.
Water tank sits right over the rear axle; 50 gallons doesn't leave room for beer & wine.
Thanks for the impetus to go take another look.
Joel

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #15 – October 04, 2022, 05:45:40 pm

You are welcome Joel. I am glad you didn't take offense to my post.

After I made that post I reread all the posts in this thread and I didn't realize all the old specifications were easy to check. I hope Jane and Scott have more clarity on the weights now.

Steve K

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #16 – October 04, 2022, 07:41:56 pm

We had our 06 31IB weighed today and she came in at 12780 lbs. Water 1/4, propane 3/4, gas 1/3, hitch 75lb, and HWH levelers. I knew when I put the levelers on we’d be close to max weight but after 10 years, and religiously checking our tire pressure, having a TPMS, and going slow to enjoy the ride, we’ve been okay.

We’ve loved her but it is time to sell her, so she’ll go on sale next week after I get a few things done. Driving almost 50 feet across LA on the 405 is for a younger, more brave driver. Will also be selling our 07 CRV TOAD which has been such a trusty little car for us. It is time to go to something smaller with no toad.

The quality of LD will be hard to beat, and this group has been such a source of inspiration and information.

Jules

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #17 – October 05, 2022, 03:18:40 pm

I hear you, Jules, re the 405. Battled that (especially the I-10 interchange) for 15 years before selling Albatross a couple of weeks ago. Much easier than your setup, but still. We’ll be interested in your next step. — Jon&Loni

Re: ?? CCC specs don’t make sense…

Reply #18 – October 06, 2022, 03:29:00 pm

Steve K.
Yes I was working based off the specs and knew specs likely would not match the actual LD unit especially with options/after purchase accessories added.

Joel, I am glad you solved the missing lbs.
I didn’t count on that extra ccc being there for every LD/year but one can wish, right? As long as it is verified by weighing it.

We know what we full time with and we don’t need a high CCC/OCCR. But we don’t want it so tight we can’t live the way we want to (like we do now) along with some future wiggle room. Possible e bikes sometime in the next few years and I might decide to go crazy and get that portable hot tub hammock at some point (not likely).

We double checked a couple other LD models recently and the 31’ model is the only one that fits our needs.
So we will stay with looking for a 2008 or newer 31’ LDs.
Since these are rare we are also looking at some SOBs but not being in a hurry about them.

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