Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Topic: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical? (Read 664 times) previous topic - next topic

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October 23, 2019, 06:19:59 pm

Ok, I was crawling under our LD again exploring -

.

I saw these wheels under the rig. I have no idea if they were added on by a previous owner or are standard.
DH & I are guessing they are to protect the LD if the back bumper area bottoms out.

We were told by a mechanic that the LD has airbags in the rear - to help keep the back of the LD high when towing. Maybe these were added at the same time?

Attached is a marked up picture to show orientation (where the wheels are on the LD).

Any info is appreciated especially if these are/were standard.

Jane

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #1 – October 23, 2019, 07:21:48 pm

As far as I know, no LD model of any year has wheels on the rear end, so a former owner likely added these and the air bags.The longer rigs do have V-shaped steel ‘guard’ pieces under the rear end to help prevent ‘bottoming’ and smacking the bumper (and the dump valves on some models) because the rear overhangs are longer than the overhang on the TK.

A former owner may have been towing a heavy vehicle or been carrying a lot of weight on the hitch.

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #2 – October 23, 2019, 07:24:19 pm

Quote from: Jane and Scott - October 23, 2019, 06:19:59 pm

Ok, I was crawling under our LD again exploring - .

I saw these wheels under the rig.
We were told by a mechanic that the LD has airbags in the rear - to help keep the back of the LD high when towing. Maybe these were added at the same time?
Any info is appreciated especially if these are/were standard.

The wheels are definitely aftermarket, the Mothership uses sacrificial steel bars on some models
You have an E350 with the low 11,500-lbs GVW so it's easy to overload and have the rear end sag.
The wheels help prevent damage and the air bags supplement the leaf springs.
Are the air bags still working and inflated? It's been my experience that air bags are only good for a few years before they leak.

Larry

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #3 – October 23, 2019, 11:34:04 pm

Larry, thanks, that confirms my guess of what the wheels are for.

Nope the air bags were not working at the time we got the LD (reported by an inspection done at a shop that works on the chassis). We don't plan to tow so I am not sure we will get them replaced/fixed.

I believe that our LD has leaf springs also. I was looking at something else so I didn't take a good picture of the leaf springs but you can see a bit of what looks like leaf springs in one picture attached and we definitely have the layers of metal shown in the second picture (some other vehicle showing what leaf springs look like).

Jane

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #4 – October 24, 2019, 08:32:52 am

I believe that our LD has leaf springs also.
---
It does.

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #5 – October 24, 2019, 12:36:30 pm

Quote from: Jane and Scott - October 23, 2019, 06:19:59 pm

Ok, I was crawling under our LD again exploring - .

I saw these wheels under the rig. I have no idea if they were added on by a previous owner or are standard.
DH & I are guessing they are to protect the LD if the back bumper area bottoms out.

I'm surprised, you have owned your LD for a while and just finally got around to looking under it?
Lots of interesting things underneith that are as important as anything inside the rig.
LDs sit too low to the ground to use a creeper, I make due with sheets of cardboard, others use masonite so they can slide around on the board's smooth surface.
Then there is a member in Florida who sent me a photo of his LD six feet off the ground, on a lift...in his garage, color me jealous .

If the air bags are not working, removing them will add a few pounds to the CCC.

Larry

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #6 – October 24, 2019, 01:46:37 pm

I use this mat if I'm relatively stationary under the rig, e.g., oil change. (Mat is available on Amazon, of course.)

TrackMat Work Mats | Accessories & Parts - BedRug | Bedrug

If I need to scoot around on a more 'slick' surface, I use a piece of heavy cardboard, doubled and edges taped.

As Larry said, lots of interesting stuff under there!

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #7 – October 24, 2019, 02:33:28 pm

Hi,
We found for sliding under vehicles that those plastic mats, made for desk chairs to roll on, are great. Easy to slide on and rinse off if they get stuff on them. We have a gravel driveway so the stones don't poke through the plastic mat like they do through cardboard. Just make sure that if it was for carpet you put the nubby side down.
Theresa

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #8 – October 24, 2019, 03:02:22 pm

I am currently using 4 wheel leveling blocks to lift the LD and wardrobe boxes to scoot on the lawn for underside inspections.

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #9 – October 24, 2019, 07:15:58 pm

Quote from: Jane and Scott - October 23, 2019, 11:34:04 pm

Nope the air bags were not working at the time we got the LD (reported by an inspection done at a shop that works on the chassis). We don't plan to tow so I am not sure we will get them replaced/fixed.

Note that if you were to tow '4-down', as most do, the airbags are not needed for that purpose. They might help if towing a trailer or dolly, but most likely if the rear end sags, or if the rig is overloaded (for which it would be the WRONG solution).

Steve

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #10 – October 24, 2019, 07:23:53 pm

"Just make sure that if it was for carpet you put the nubby side down."
----
Yeah, spikes in one's back do tend to impede motion!

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #11 – October 25, 2019, 12:49:04 am

Quote from: Larry W - October 24, 2019, 12:36:30 pm

I'm surprised, you have owned your LD for a while and just finally got around to looking under it
Larry

Larry, I have made several trips under the LD - I think less than two handfuls of trips so far but more than one handful. But I keep finding more stuff -

. Part of the issue is focusing on different areas (e.g. looking for one thing and happening to see something else in that area), and the other issue is my eyes growing in knowledge of what I should/should not be seeing in a stock LD so odd things stand out more and I go "WTH"? In the beginning it was all foreign so I think it was harder to absorb what I was seeing. Now I know more so I see more (e.g. known, known, known, hey....). A lot more was likely familiar to you right away cause I am guessing you crawl under cars a lot before you ever got a Motor Home.

That said, we still have a couple "rats nest" of unknown things to explore - like the gajillion wires coming off the chassis battery. Ok really about 8-12 but I think tons more than stock (but I could be wrong). I need to remove the battery to trace them all out and that hasn't risen to the top of the list since there are no known problems. I just like to know the entire construction inside out - wiring diagrams, plumbing diagrams, etc. etc.

Since we are both working full time I don't get to explore as many hours as I would like, but slowly we are going over the entire LD and fixing things up, which means learning it inside out (more than the level of learning gotten from reading or just using).

Larry, I am also very jealous of the Florida member with the lift in his garage.

Rodney, how far are you getting your LD off the ground? Are you using standard flat leveling blocks or something more unusual. I would love to get the LD off the ground even a couple of feet. Though amazing I have wiggled in from a side to where my head is about the middle of the LD.

Joan, we have used cardboard sheets. The last one got thrown out when DH cleaned up the car, so when we get another large amazon box we will make another one. I am fine laying on the dirt/gravel with just a towel or piece of cardboard, but I sometimes think of getting something to protect my knees for the get down/get up part. I have not yet decided which direction to go for that yet though.

Steve, we don't plan to tow with this L.D. The first owners, the year after they bought the LD, put a whole bunch of fancy stuff on the LD - abs brakes, a fancy power center with a built in inverter, lots of solar, I think the over-under gear was added then, and lots more. I think I saw the airbag receipt in with the rest of those receipts. I have no idea why they put airbags on or even if they ended up using them/needing them.

Jane

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #12 – October 25, 2019, 03:19:06 am

Hi Jane and Larry. The E350 chassis has light, soft duty leaf springs in the rear. That is why Ed didn't want to go to the E450 platform. To quote him "it would ride too rough". There are only 4 leaves stacked, and no sway bar. So my TK isn't overloaded. (weighed twice). I try to go through driveways at an angle, but some aren't wide enough for that, and I try not to go through too fast but approaching traffic often doesn't comprehend that I will still be in their way as they approach at high speed.
So I added this roller to my hitch, and I have dragged it a few times. As far as getting under the rig, I use the sheets of cardboard method. Sometimes with a packing blanket (Harbor Freight). Our old clothing coming back to us. I find it very entertaining wandering around underneath.
I think I surprised Ed when I pulled out a coverall, with strong flashlght and crawled under the TK sitting in the showroom. If he had been younger I think he would have joined me. I have been under many cars, and quite a few motorhomes. I know what I'm looking at, and many of the worst manufacturers don't try to hide the defects underneath. Needless to say the Lazy Daze passed my underneath inspection. I still don't like the rust on the driveline. Digital cameras are great too. At the time my Other Brand clone of a LD was looking better after a lot of work. I sold it 20 years ago to a coworker and it is still on the road, and he still talks to me! RonB

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #13 – October 25, 2019, 08:45:10 am

"I sometimes think of getting something to protect my knees for the get down/get up part..."
-----

If you don't want to get a pair of strap-on knee pads, a foam 'kneeler' pad works well.

Amazon.com: foam knee pad gardening

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #14 – October 25, 2019, 12:27:17 pm

Hi Joan. I carry two kneeling pads. They are light weight. Good for changing a tire, or wrestling with recalcitrant tank valves. (Tire chains once). Underneath, if needbe, I have a tarp that rolls into a small light package. The second kneeling pad is for head or elbows.
As for knee pads; I prefer the hard shell outsides, padding inside where my knee caps are. Easier to clean and to move around on my knees. Machines I used to work on required maintenance underneath. Even in a cleanroom with smooth vinyl flooring, I spent many hours in knee pads, or on my back with just my legs sticking out. Too bad the 'bunny suit' looked like an outdoor coverall after a while. Someone else did the laundry. RonB

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #15 – October 25, 2019, 12:41:32 pm

"Underneath, if need be, I have a tarp that rolls into a small light package."
---
I do carry a 5'X7' plastic 'tarp', and have used it as a ground cover on a couple of occasions on the road; the folding mat was purged during a previous round of compartment reorganization, but I may try to fit it in again. The plastic tarp keeps one a little cleaner, but it works best if one doesn't wiggle around; it tends to ruck up when one moves. However, no matter what I lie on or scoot around on, mat, cardboard, tarp, other, the 'get down, scoot under, scoot back out, get up' stuff is getting a bit more challenging! Then, there's the roof....

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #16 – October 25, 2019, 12:50:25 pm

Joan - they just need to put handholds under the LD so it is like a rock wall

. Then just pull yourself along.

I am getting good at scooting around underneath and nicely there is enough space that unless I am going right under a low hanging area like the steps, it doesn't feel claustrophobic to me - even with short spots lower to the ground a couple feet of scooting and my head is in a "spacious" area again. However, I am only a bit claustrophobic. DH can't go under - way to claustrophobic for him. But he is great on the roof where I don't care for the heights (yup even 1 story). I have gone up several times cause I want to see stuff / work on something but he does more roof work then I do.

Jane

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #17 – October 25, 2019, 12:54:26 pm

Quote from: RonB - October 25, 2019, 03:19:06 am

I still don't like the rust on the driveline.

Ron

Every E450 I have been under has rusty drive shafts. I believe hey are made of an alloy that forms a protective layer of rust to inhibit further rusting.
The worse rust seen was a three or four year old rig from the East Coast that has been repeatedly driven in the winter and exposed to salt, a lot of it.
The entire undercarriage was covered in flaking rust, to make it worse, the undercarriage had recently been sprayed with a heavy, sticky oil as a rust treatment.
I had never worked on such a nasty machine before or since.
If you inspect a LD with the galvanized sheet metal covering the bottom the floor is rusting through, it's a good indication to pass it by.

For work at home, the front of our LD is always lifted on 8" blocks, to compensate for the driveway's slope, lifting just the rear provides extra space for working under it.
To lift the rear either Lynx blocks are use or, preferably, lifted with a jack and placed on 12-ton jack stands.
A compressed-air powered jack simplifies the lifting process.
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-air-hydraulic-bottle-jack-94487.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-steel-jack-stands-61197.html

Larry

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #18 – October 25, 2019, 01:20:51 pm

Quote from: Jane and Scott - October 25, 2019, 12:49:04 am

The first owners a whole bunch of fancy stuff on the LD - abs brakes,

How was it converted to ABS braking?
ABS requires sensors in the wheels or axle, to detect skidding, a special pump to pulse the brakes and a computer to control the system. It would be very expensive and a huge job to install.
I have never seen a true, aftermarket ABS system .

Larry

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #19 – October 25, 2019, 11:14:43 pm

Larry, aftermarket ABS - I have no idea. You are the car guy not me. I just have the receipt,
But my reaction was “Really. I didn’t think that was possible especially in 1990” (not remembering when abs brakes became common in cars).
Wikipedia shows ABS was around much longer than I thought. Anti-lock braking system - Wikipedia

I think the first owners had money to throw around based on all the add ons that first year. E.g. I don’t know why they replaced the entire stock power center (ac/dc distribution, charger/converter, etc,) rather than just add an inverter to what was there. Plenty of unused space in that area in this LD, so that was not the reason. Yes I think the replacement unit had a good reputation from what I can tell researching it (now out of business, mentions of it are on well built RVs like airstream forum). So maybe like the appeal of lithium batteries 5 years ago, they wanted state of the art stuff.

If I was planning a handful of years or more traveling all across the US in my fancy new well built LD and money was no object and among the add on options being offered were ABS brakes I could see myself taking that option, along with the over under gear and 400 watts solar. After all wasn’t ABS touted as something fantastic back then? Also, I wasn’t there, so maybe it was touted as ABS but something a little different (easier to install). So far all the other upgrades are verified at being there so I have no reason think the ABS wasn’t done.

Jane

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #20 – October 26, 2019, 02:48:01 am

Quote from: Jane and Scott - October 25, 2019, 11:14:43 pm

Larry, aftermarket ABS - I have no idea. You are the car guy not me. I just have the receipt,
So far all the other upgrades are verified at being there so I have no reason think the ABS wasn’t done.

I wasn't questioning if ABS was installed, I asked how or what method was used.
I have never seen ABS in any Chevy LDs. ABS became an option in the G-series around 1990 but the cutaways didn't have it, AFAIK.
It's possible to retrofit ABS to vehicles that had ABS as an available option, so the spots to mount the wheel sensors, control box and hydraulic unit are present.
It would be an expensive project. You have the receipt, how much did it cost?

In the late 80's and early 90's, ABS was a hot item, usually found on more expensive or well optioned vehicles.
To get in on the craze, so called "ABS" kits were sold that were pressure limiting valves. The valves were placed in the brake lines and stopped skidding by reducing the brake line pressure to point where the wheels could not lock up.
The valve fell out of favor when people (or the insurance companies) finally realized the kits increased braking distance and eliminated the ability to use the traditional, pre-ABS, pedal pumping on slick surfaces.
If your rig has such a kit, I would definitely consider removing it and restoring the brake system to stock.

Larry

Re: Extra wheels - under back bumper area of TK, are these typical?

Reply #21 – October 26, 2019, 02:58:37 am

Larry, I will have to pull out the receipt and check things out.
Jane

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October 23, 2019, 06:19:59 pm

Reply #1 – October 23, 2019, 07:21:48 pm

Reply #2 – October 23, 2019, 07:24:19 pm

Reply #3 – October 23, 2019, 11:34:04 pm

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Reply #6 – October 24, 2019, 01:46:37 pm

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Reply #11 – October 25, 2019, 12:49:04 am

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Reply #13 – October 25, 2019, 08:45:10 am

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