If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

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If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

December 19, 2016, 01:18:41 pm

If (when) I buy a rig with rot that has an active leak and I fix the leak, do I have to repair the rot immediately or could I wait 2-3 months? I think rot may progress whether there is an active leak or not and I know mold can form but, I couldn't help but think about Andy's post and how he stopped the leak and will effect repairs later. It would be helpful if I could delay the inevitable for a bit.

Thanks for your feedback...

Mimi

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #1 – December 19, 2016, 01:28:44 pm

"If (when) I buy a rig with rot that has an active leak..."

I cannot fathom the logic here (if indeed there is any). Why would you buy yourself a problem that you know is going to cost you big time somewhere down the road???

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #2 – December 19, 2016, 01:38:36 pm

I wouldn't intentionally do that, but I've learned that an inspection can't catch everything and that it's fairly certain that an old rig will either have an undetected active leak (ex: roof), or an older leak that caused rot. I'm just trying to be prepared. I do hope to avoid buying a rig with water damage or an active leak, but I'm trying to prepare for the worst and hope for the best!:-)

Mimi

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #3 – December 19, 2016, 02:15:33 pm

Quote from: Opuntia - December 19, 2016, 01:18:41 pm

If (when) I buy a rig with rot that has an active leak and I fix the leak, do I have to repair the rot immediately or could I wait 2-3 months? I think rot may progress whether there is an active leak or not and I know mold can form but, I couldn't help but think about Andy's post and how he stopped the leak and will effect repairs later. It would be helpful if I could delay the inevitable for a bit.

If the area is dried and sealed, you can wait. Hope you don't have any issues with mold spores.
The exception would be if the rot has caused structural damage.

Years ago a friend's LD had rot in the bunk area that caused the overhead to badly sag, enough that the driver's side door would hit the overhead and could not be fully opened. After fixing the damage the best I could, the cap still leaked.
It was necessary to tape off the exterior and then pressurize the interior, to force air through the leaks.
Painting the rig, top to bottom, with soapy water, exposed several unseen leaks.
Yes, it was the old style front cap.
Leak detection | Flickr
The good news is that we just spent a weekend with our friend and her LD is still operational.

Larry

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #4 – December 19, 2016, 05:24:33 pm

Quote from: Larry Wade - December 19, 2016, 02:15:33 pm

If the area is dried and sealed, you can wait. Hope you don't have any issues with mold spores.

Yes, it was the old style front cap.
Leak detection | Flickr
The good news is that we just spent a weekend with our friend and her LD is still operational.

Larry

That's amazing. The rig looks just fine on the outside. Amazing. What year is her LD? This leak could have begun before purchase, but was undetected?

Isn't there some sort of gizmo I can buy that will detect moisture behind a wall? It would be handy to have that with me while shopping for a rig. At least then I'll know it's dry.

Mimi

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #5 – December 19, 2016, 06:50:20 pm

Quote from: Opuntia - December 19, 2016, 05:24:33 pm

That's amazing. The rig looks just fine on the outside. Amazing. What year is her LD? This leak could have begun before purchase, but was undetected?
Isn't there some sort of gizmo I can buy that will detect moisture behind a wall? It would be handy to have that with me while shopping for a rig.

I don't remember the year, believe it's a 1990. You can tell it's an early LD by the real front window.
I'm sure her rig had leaked for years before she bought it, most of the bunk area was compost.

There are moisture meters, made for wood. They require plunging two needles deep into the wood to get accurate reading.
General Tools MMD4E Moisture Meter, Pin Type, Digital LCD - - Amazon.com

LDs have paneling made with a plastic coating, so moisture doesn't penetrate the surface, making a moisture meter rather pointless, in this application unless you are OK poking holes through the ceiling. Ceiling leaks usually drain from the edge of the paneling or where holes exist.
The flow is normally inward, following the slope of the shores of Lake Newton. All LDs have a low spot in the center of the roof, caused by the weight of the roof A/C. This low spot is affectionately known as Lake Newton.

Even if you find moisture, you still don't know where it is entering, just from the location of the ceiling leak. Water can travel several feet sideways, over the paneling, until it finds a place to exit downward.
In Andy's situation, he did't locate the leak until a section the ceiling had been remove, revealing the exact spot.

Larry

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Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #6 – December 20, 2016, 01:28:50 am

Quote from: Larry Wade - December 19, 2016, 06:50:20 pm

I don't remember the year, believe it's a 1990. You can tell it's an early LD by the real front window.
I'm sure her rig had leaked for years before she bought it, most of the bunk area was compost.

There are moisture meters, made for wood.
This low spot is affectionately known as Lake Newton.

Even if you find moisture, you still don't know where it is entering, just from the location of the ceiling leak. Water can travel several feet sideways, over the paneling, until it finds a place to exit downward.

In Andy's situation, he did't locate the leak until a section the ceiling had been remove, revealing the exact spot.

Larry

Oh, I didn't know the walls were lined in plastic. I guess you're right. A moisture meter would be pointless. It seems so difficult to locate leaks. It's a little concerning that, as in Andy's case, he only found the leak after cutting out the ceiling. I don't know that I'd have the guts to do the same thing for fear of making a mistake. Adding to my concern, it seems that finding old damage from a previous leak appears to be even more difficult, if not impossible. It's a little concerning.

Mimi

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #7 – December 20, 2016, 08:31:51 am

The walls of the LD are not "lined in plastic", but rather have 1/8" thick interior paneling that's surfaced with a textured vinyl, so, as Larry said, any signs of water leaks would be visible at the seams (and would spread out from there) or through any nail holes in this paneling, if they're noticeable at all.

Joan

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #8 – December 21, 2016, 10:21:59 pm

I have used moisture meters in houses, we were surprised to see it showed some moisture just because we were in a humid city. We ended up taking measurements where we knew there was not water damage (knowing where it was as it was a contractor error) and then took measurements where there were leaks and took the difference to tell show there was a problem.

Home Inspectors will use a thermal camera (I think that is what it is) to see temperature differences and find things like cracks in concrete under carpet that normally could not be seen. Someone in this group did that and showed some interesting pictures of their LD that matched what I saw at the factory (large hole with no insulation when they had plumbing or electrical coming in perpendicular to the surface - a larger hole than what I would have made wanting insulation in every mm I could get it

).

But I don't know how that would work with a LD ... Any area that let in outside temperature would show up... maybe just looking for big patches bigger than your hand spread out.... And I don't know the science enough to know if plywood vs plywood that had rot in it would show different (vs a hole or crack showing). I think it might only show active wet spots where the water would change the temperature. But someone more knowledgeable here would be able to give better info.

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #9 – December 22, 2016, 02:23:54 am

Quote from: JandS2 - December 21, 2016, 10:21:59 pm

Home Inspectors will use a thermal camera (I think that is what it is) to see temperature differences and find things like cracks in concrete under carpet that normally could not be seen. what I would have made wanting insulation in every mm I could get it :D ).
But I don't know how that would work with a LD ...

While I find infrared cameras and thermometers to be very useful in diagnosing RV ailments, I doubt if you would 'see' a temperature difference in a rotted area, assuming it was dry.
Where the infrared devices work well, in RVs, is finding bad electrical connections and leaks in the insulation and weatherstripping, among a lot of other uses.

I use both an infrared thermometer and a FLIR One infrared camera attachment for an iPhone 6.
Amazon.com: Etekcity Lasergrip 1080 Non-contact Digital Laser Infrared...
Amazon.com: FLIR ONE Thermal Imager for iOS: Camera & Photo
You can never have too many tools.

Larry

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Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #10 – December 22, 2016, 02:38:53 am

Larry, thanks for the info. I also love tools, I would much rather window shop at a tool store than any other store. But we are downsizing and I will need to decide at some point to whittle down to essential tools.
Jane

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #11 – December 22, 2016, 12:10:11 pm

"I doubt if you would 'see' a temperature difference in a rotted area, assuming it was dry."

Right. The temperature differences that give away leaks are only present when the area is damp (and hence cooled by evaporation). A rotted area that is dry won't show any difference on a thermal view.

Andy

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #12 – December 24, 2016, 01:44:58 pm

I bought a pin-less moisture meter (at Costco) made by Mannix, a model MMD7NP. A similar General tools version is available through Amazon for less than $50. They work with eddy current, a small RF field penetrates the wood to measure the moisture. A thin plastic layer like on the walls or ceiling of the LD doesn't seem to affect the readings. Might be easier to convince an owner to let you use these instead of a 'pin' type that leaves marks. You can scan a surface pretty quickly. RonB

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #13 – December 25, 2016, 05:59:02 pm

RonB, thanks for that info. Worth checking out.

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #14 – December 25, 2016, 06:36:08 pm

Quote from: RonB - December 24, 2016, 01:44:58 pm

I bought a pin-less moisture meter (at Costco) made by Mannix, a model MMD7NP.

Ron

That's a better device for than the pin-type moisture detectors for RV inspections .
It would be useful for finding rot, only if the rot is still wet.

Maybe used LDs should only be inspected after a good rain.

Larry

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #15 – December 27, 2016, 11:47:04 am

Larry, I was thinking that a car wash should be on the test drive route

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #16 – December 28, 2016, 09:46:26 am

Good thought, but be careful at a pressure wash. High pressure can force leaks that don't already exist, lift decals, lossen seam sealant. Especially if you don't own the LD I would not use pressure water. A garden hose may be a good choice.

Re: If my new (old) rig has rot, does it have to be repaired immediately?

Reply #17 – December 28, 2016, 10:01:08 am

"....be careful at a pressure wash".
-----
Agreed! Not only can high pressure water jets do what Paul states above, but blasting water into the refrigerator, water heater, battery, and furnace compartments/vents may cause damage. (And, if used on the roof, into the refrigerator flue vent and under the AC shroud.) JMHO, but I would never use a high-pressure "wash" on my rig; YMMV.

Joan

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