Lazy Daze Owners' Group

On another RV forum I just came across this possible safety issue with Battle Born batteries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP2yPY57Wjc&t=3s

Here is Battle Born reply to the issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fD3yaRvp3o

More research may be needed.

Wow, that's scary! Battleborn's response to the problem is concerning.  Thanks for sharing, Mike!

I have GC2 form-factor ones, but the internals likely are similar - so time to check them out!

Steve

I have four 100AHr Battleborn batteries. I am concerned now.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Mike - I fixed the formatting of the video links so the videos are now embedded in your post.  There were leading "<" and trailing ">" on either side of the URLs that I removed.

Wonderful, I have two three-year-old Battleborns with quite a few bad road miles on them.
Of course, Battleborn won't claim responsibility. With 400,00 reported sales, that would bankrupt them overnight.

I need to test whether they experience the same overheating issue when charged at a high rate. The converter charges a bit over 60-amps, and I have seen 80-amps when using the converter, along with the solar on a sunny day. That shouldn't be an issue with a 400-amp/hour battery pack.

The only sort of good news is if they need replacement, a pair of new 100-amp/hour lithiums will cost less than one Battleborn did when new.
Battleborn is way over-hyped and overpriced.

Larry

"The only sort of good news is if they need replacement, a pair of new 100-amp/hour lithiums will cost less than one Battleborn did when new.
Battleborn is way over-hyped and overpriced.

Larry"

I found this review interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLIv7wa01Q 

When I recently switched to lithium, I didn't want to pay the higher price of the Battleborn batteries. I think a couple folks here pointed out they were way overpriced. But I didn't have a lot of trust in the batteries that the Chinese manufacturers were, and still are, flooding the market with.

I settled with a happy medium, about half the cost of the Battleborn's but more than the LiTime's, Et al.  I went with a US Battery offering that is the same physical dimensions of the Lifeline AGM's they replaced. I'm hoping Will does a review of them at some point. Anyone have any inside connections to Will? 😁

US 12V G24 Lithium-Ion Battery | Essential Li® | U.S. Battery Mfg. (https://www.usbattery.com/us-12v-g24/)


Here is an interesting video from Will regarding fire risk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60LEo0Rwpp8

A friend of mine pointed out the fire hazard in BB's batteries six years ago (!) after watching a disassembly video. I should have listened. I'm embarrassed to say that I bought a pair anyway, although I soon switched to Lithionics and then Epoch. Watching Will Prowse's videos, I now realize what a mistake I made. (Don't miss his followup video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fD3yaRvp3o), just posted, in which he reads Battle Borne's nonsensical response, in which they claim that the overheating, melting plastic and arcing aluminum bolt are intentional safety features!)

In addition, a friend who's been researching this has found multiple posts from people who experienced potentially dangerous overheating failures and discovered that BB's ten-year warranty wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. In a typical case, the company demanded that the user return the battery at a cost of more than $300 and pay a $150 "inspection charge," only to be told that there was nothing wrong with the battery and the damage must have been caused by the user. In no case was a warranty claim honored.

I've recommended against buying Battle Born batteries in the past, just based on their high price and poor construction. Knowing what I know now about their dangerous design, I'll go further and say: if you have them, get rid of them as soon as you can.

Here's another video by Will Prowse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUtbnbLpvFk). He bought fifteen used Battle Born batteries and took them apart. Loose connections and overheating galore. The scariest part is that some of them look fine on the outside, but terrible inside.

Has anyone found replacements for BattleBorn 100 AHr that are the same exact dimensions, so I don’t have to modify my bracketization? Or, is a recommended different size battery sufficiently superior to be worth some mounting rework effort?

Hi Keith;  You've heard this from me before, but I'm still a fan of The SOK 206 brand.  I have two older ones, and a newer one. The newer is UL approved, built in BlueTooth, and an internal heater. The older ones don't and they cost $1029 each +tax (in 2021).  A bit larger than the BattleBorn, but it comes with a metal (10Ga Steel case). The top is screwed on, but can be removed. (Voids the warranty) At two hundred AH each the thinner case takes up less room. I managed to put two side by side (on end) in the existing battery box. At 48 pounds each, still lighter than the 65# lead acid's.  The newer third battery, is $585.  Amazon.com: SOK 12V 206Ah LiFePO4 Battery, 8000+ Deep Cycle Smart BMS, 170A... (https://www.amazon.com/SOK-Battery-SK12V206H-4000-8000-Bluetooth/dp/B0DJP1M1ZH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=29PBR6JWAP6D7&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.WwO9rJTA62Q_g3Xhh9dYg3vxAJd5vqKQr8EDKYbq8IcAFHY3GcUZ1joHMxA1qD-A4gfNI1-_F5QaqafwO1aSUdTXvjZzvZL4yWxxpKG16G1aQZRJa8sEQ9eoNjItfh_P.-qhjJf21-hWSFLzU6ReHsK8cknZ-QYsJaqg58oLdlAI&dib_tag=se&keywords=sok%2B206%2BlifePO4%2Bbatteries%2C%2Bsteel%2Bcase&qid=1769841221&sprefix=sok%2B206%2Blifepo4%2Bbatteries%2C%2Bsteel%2Bcase%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-1&th=1)
    Will Prowse does do a tear down evaluation on the older ones, (2021)  https://www.google.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube+will+prowse+test+sok+206+lif&oq=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube+will+prowse+test+sok+206+lif&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRg60gEJMjA2MzBqMGo0qAIAsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:3b47b81c,vid:SU86EJXcTMM,st:0    but he just undid the screws. He liked it at the time. I doubt they have 'ruined' it by adding the heater and bluetooth.  The handles on each end can be unscrewed. I just took off one end handles to mount them on end.
     Other members here have used them also. My first two are about 4 years old, still working fine. They are just a bit bigger than GC1 100AH BattleBurn batteries. SOK 206 10.7" high vs 10.32 (BB).  7.87" wide vs 7.19 (BB) 11.42" long vs 11.0 (BB)  48# vs 32# (BB)
     I added an OutEquip Pro 10k btuh 12vdc roof air to the back dinette/bedroom, so the third battery is to help run that. 618 total AH now.                            
             RonB

Has anyone found replacements for BattleBorn 100 AHr that are the same exact dimensions, so I don’t have to modify my bracketization? Or, is a recommended different size battery sufficiently superior to be worth some mounting rework effort?

See my post above, reply #7.

Another update from Will. I love this guy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUtbnbLpvFk

Here is a list of the batteries that Will Prowse (the guy from the youtube video) currently recommends:
LiFePO4 Batteries for Offgrid and Mobile Solar - Off-grid Solar Made Easy! (https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html)
 
One of the challenges with all of the price and technology changes is that the recommended options switch frequently. 

I bought the 314a/h 'dumb' watt cycle and plan to install it once we get some warmer weather here in NC.   I think it will fit inside the factory LD battery box (plan to seal and insulate the door).

Rich

I have used apair of Li Time lithium batteries for a couple of years without problems; they were added to an existing bank of two Battleborn batteries.
Li Time has 12-volt, 100-amp-hour batteries in many different sizes; you should not have a problem finding two that fit your existing space.
Shop 12V Lithium Batteries by LiTime - 12V Deep Cycle Battery – LiTime-US (https://www.litime.com/collections/12v-batteries)

Larry

I wonder if Battleborn's construction issues have existed from their earlier years or if they have a newer problem?
I have load tested the Battleborn batteries in our LD.  to see if an issue can be determined. The batteries were deeply discharged and then recharged at as high a rate as I can manage (using the converter, solar and running the engine at the same time). I have also discharged the two Battleborn batteries by running the microwave for an extended period, drawing over 140-amps.
During both tests, the positive battery terminals were monitored for temperature increases using an infrared thermometer and no increases were noticed. Being there is no way to see what is inside a Battleborn battery without cutting it open and destroying it, measuring the operating temperature is the only way I can think of for testing the batteries for overheating issues. I really do not want to throw out batteries I paid $1700 for several years ago unless there is an obvious observable problem.

Larry

Larry, you're doing what you can--keeping an eye on temperature while charging and (especially high-rate discharging. If you can't afford to take them out of service, I certainly understand. What I'd do is avoid the high-power scenarios (e.g., microwave oven use) that are known to lead to problems with these batteries.

Another thought: you could buy a couple of aquarium thermometers--the kind some of us use to bring our water heaters to a perfect showering temperature--and fasten one on each battery's positive terminal. Set an alarm for 120° or so. That way you'll be warned about overheating.

I have two BB batteries that appear to be working fine. But after seeing what the insides look like, I won't use them. I'm still trying to figure out how to recycle them. There are plenty of places that will take cell phones and power tool batteries, and there are places that recycle electric car batteries... but I have yet to find a place that will accept the car-battery-sized ones we RVers use.

Andy, these folks might be able to help with recycling:

Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery Recycling (takes < 1 minute) (https://www.batteryrecyclersofamerica.com/lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-recycling/)

Say, could you explain how you use the aquarium thermometers to measure your hot water heater temp?

Sure! Using an aquarium thermometer to help shower efficiently is explained on this page (https://www.andybaird.com/Eureka/pages/showering.htm).

Thanks for the tip on battery recycling. I'll look into that company.

Another thought: you could buy a couple of aquarium thermometers--the kind some of us use to bring our water heaters to a perfect showering temperature--and fasten one on each battery's positive terminal. Set an alarm for 120° or so. That way you'll be warned about overheating.

That's a good idea. I already have a hardwired thermometer in the battery box to monitor the air temperature. With vents cut into the battery box, the temps stay within a few degrees of the interior of the coach.

Larry.

Another video for those with Battle Born batteries. This is from an actual user. Fast forward to the 1:30 mark to avoid the intro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3aySTut7Vs

This is a good summary of the reasons not to buy Battle Born. This fellow experienced firsthand their very high cost, high failure rate, overheating-prone construction, and a worthless warranty.

Ron B brought my attention to the Battle Born boondoggle a few days ago. While I am concerned about their longevity and trustworthiness, I am more concerned with their safety. Our ‘15 RB had about $5,000 worth of BB’s installed at AM Solar in 2020 and had every hope that they would live long and provide a great deal of reliability.

Now I’ve considered chucking the lot and installing 5 100 amp hour SOK’s. The battery I’ve been looking at has a clear case and sells for about $200 each. Considerably less than what I spent five years ago.

Recently Will Prowse outlined the need to balance lithium batteries cells. This procedure requires discharging the batts to zero and bringing them back to 100 percent. How likely will any of us do this on a regular basis?

I also wonder how long this current issue some are experiencing has been going on. Will doesn’t mention this…wish he would. BB had a great reputation up until recently…what a shame.

I saw yesterday that BB has a new line of Solar Panels. We will see how well this new product line fares after their dismal response to the current situation. Hmmm…

Kent

"Recently Will Prowse outlined the need to balance lithium batteries cells. This procedure requires discharging the batts to zero and bringing them back to 100 percent."

I haven't seen where Will recommended this, but what I have heard him say is that one should charge batteries to 100% at least once a month in order to keep the cells balanced. That fits with what other LiFePO4  experts have said. With batteries that have Bluetooth connectivity (unlike Battle Born), you can check cell balance anytime using a cell phone app. With my 130 amp-hour Lithionics batteries and my current 460 Ah Epoch battery, I've rarely seen more than 0.003 V imbalance between cells, and 0.001 V (that's one millivolt) is more typical.

With one exception: one of my two Lithionics batteries developed a bad cell after about four years, and nothing my friend and I tried would bring it back into balance. The result was that that battery had a fraction of its rated 130 Ah capacity. Because it was still within warranty, my friend and I (I had given the pair to them) filed a claim.

That's where things went bad. Although Lithionics boasts about their warranty, the procedure for actually making a claim is complicated and expensive. It ended up taking many emails over several months and costing $232 just for them to accept the battery for diagnosis. They quickly found out what we had confirmed to them months before, using detailed data from their own monitoring app. We just got the battery back, and my friend is testing it now. Given the high cost of these batteries (about $1,500 for 130 Ah) and the poor warranty treatment, I don't recommend Lithionics.

But I digress. Yes, it's important to periodically rebalance the cells in a LiFePO4 battery, but my understanding is any decent BMS will do that automatically when charging to 100%.

"I’ve considered chucking the lot and installing 5 100 amp hour SOK’s."

If you watch the video posted in reply #21, that fellow had a similar situation, and he replaced six Battle Born batteries with two 280 amp hour Eco-Worthy batteries, at a total cost of $750. Given that connecting two batteries in parallel is a lot easier than connecting five, I would go that route.

And as for Battle Born's solar panels, given the multiple reports that their warranty support is even worse than I experienced with Lithionics, I wouldn't buy anything from that company.

I haven't seen where Will recommended this, but what I have heard himiGiven the high cost of these batteries (about $1,500 for 130 Ah) and the poor warranty treatment, I don't recommend Lithionics.

My  two Li Time batteries stay closely balanced, monitored throughout the Bluetooth app. The Battleborn batteries do not have Bluetooth, so I'm in the dark how they are doing.
It is hard to overcome the old habits of never totally discharging a lead-acid battery,  guess I should do it occasionally but let's say I will never feel comfortable doing so. The BMS should prevent damaging things.

It appears that none of the lithium battery manufactures warrant are worth much, I would gladly recycle the two Battleborn batteries if they actually honored their warrantiy but since they claim "there isn't a problem", there is no solution here other than buying two new batteries out of pocket, other than a class acton suit.

Larry

Will Prowse recently posted this link to a class action suit against Battle Born:

Battle Born Batteries (https://findclassaction.jotform.com/253644899937884)

I know nothing about it except that I don't qualify, because my two BB batteries haven't caught fire or melted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sQqZKlANlk) yet... and since I don't intend to ever hook them up again, hopefully they never will.

Will Prowse recently posted this link to a class action suit against Battle Born:

Battle Born Batteries (https://findclassaction.jotform.com/253644899937884)

I know nothing about it except that I don't qualify, because my two BB batteries haven't caught fire or melted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sQqZKlANlk) yet... and since I don't intend to ever hook them up again, hopefully they never will.

You don't know, I would follow the post, as you might get something back for those batteries you won't use!!

Steve

SOK has a beautiful 314 amp hour battery for $999. If and when I upgrade from BB this will be my most likely choice. Compared to my BB’s that’s about $300 per 100 amp hrs for what looks like a far superior product.

My BB’s do have Bluetooth and all the data shown on my phone doesn’t indicate anything out of the ordinary. So far so good but you never know.

Kent

Another video for those with Battle Born batteries. This is from an actual user. Fast forward to the 1:30 mark to avoid the intro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3aySTut7Vs

I need to test the two Battleborn batteries, using Battleborn's method. It does not look too hard to do with the batteries still in place, each battery has a home-run set of cables going to common positive and negative terminal posts. Now that I know that fully discharging the batteries (to the point where the BMS shuts the battery down) can be helpful makes this chore a little easier to do..
I thought buying premium "American" batteries was the most dependable way to go. It doesn't do much reinforce the 'Buy American' efforts. I guess admitting fault would bankrupt Battleborn, their best defense may be not admitting fault and hoping for the best in court. Andy's experience with Lithionics, another premium battery, is another example that spending a bunch of money on "quality" sometimes doesn't pay.
This is all very disappointing.

I'm installing a pair of aquarium alarm thermometers to monitor the temperature of the two Battleborn positive terminals. There is already a remote thermometer monitoring ambient temperature of the battery compartment, for a point of comparison. Between voltage and capacity testing of the two batteries, combined with the temperature readings will help determine what I'm going to do.

Larry

"you might get something back for those batteries you won't use!"

Already tried, but no dice. Since my batteries haven't overheated, caught fire, or failed in some other way, I'm not eligible for the lawsuit.

"I thought buying premium 'American' batteries was the most dependable way to go."

Me too, Larry.

:: sigh ::

"you might get something back for those batteries you won't use!"

Already tried, but no dice. Since my batteries haven't overheated, caught fire, or failed in some other way, I'm not eligible for the lawsuit.

We don't know the issue of the lawsuit, but it may apply to a design issue, leading to likely catastrophic failure eventually. Most lawsuits use this approach, to maximize profitability for the legal representatives... It doesn't hurt to throw in with the crowd.

Steve

Warranties that are not worth the paper they are printed on seem to be the norm in the RV world...sigh.

Larry

"It doesn't hurt to throw in with the crowd."

I agree. But if you go to the website and fill out their online form, you'll find that if you don't check one of the boxes for Overheating, Swelling, Fire, or Battery Failure, it will inform you that you're not eligible. That's when I got when I checked "No, I have not experienced any issues" and again when I tried "Other Issues."

A new video from Will. The saga continues . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sQqZKlANlk

A new video from Will. The saga continues . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sQqZKlANlk

I can't understand why Battleborn engineers used such poor designs when doing it the right way wouldn't have cost more.
Today, I'm installing two aquarium thermometers to monitor the Battleborn batteries until I decide what I'm going to do.

I feel totally abused by Battleborn, they could have avoided this whole issue with a little bit of proper engineering.

Larry

Ran across this new Battle Born ad:

          LIMITED TIME OFFER.
          Self-Heated Lithium Batteries.

Seems that’s the last thing they should be advertising about in face of their ongoing controversy.

Or they are rebranding their design flaws as features.

Either way, poor timing.