I'm searching for someone knowledgeable of factory installed solar.
Thanks
I'm searching for someone knowledgeable of factory installed solar.
What do you need to know?
Larry
Hi Larry.
My solar system:
Inverter: PowerStar 400 watt Inverter, Model UPG400
Controller; RV-30s
Two solar panels. I'm thinking 100 watt panels
Issue: My controller started displaying random codes.
I inspected my batteries and discovered one had a slight bulge.
I'll be taking the batteries to O'Reilly's to test for charge.
See attached photos and video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VcspwN3R7A
Hi Mark; The inverter isn't part of the solar system. The 'solar charging' system consists of the panels (convert photons to electrons), batteries to store the electrons as chemical potential, and a solar controller module. The controller informs about battery voltage, prevents the panels from overcharging, damaging the batteries or whatever components that are also connected to the batteries.
A inverter is just one of many components connected to the batteries. Lights, motors, heating unit controllers, refrigerators are similar components.
If a battery is malfunctioning, it can cause the solar panel controller to appear to have a problem. Battery voltages can disclose many conditions of the battery, or multiple batteries in series like our typical Lazy Dazes. A voltmeter is a tool everyone should have. Simple but adequate ones can be as low as $10. RonB
Ron pointed out, that without voltage measurements, we have no clues as to what is wrong.
There is a good chance the battery is bad but other things could be happening. You just asked if the generator can be started without a good battery, an indication the battery is bad.
Your rig has a very old solar controller, they have increased their efficiency over the decades and could be bad. I have had two solar controllers die over the last 22 years, the last replaced with a Blue Sky 3000i
Without more information, we can only guess what your rig's problem is. Electrical issues can be difficult to diagnose remotely, sometimes professional help is needed if your electrical skills are lacking.
Larry
Thanks Ron,
I tested the batteries with a volt meter.
Battery 1: 6.14 volts
Battery 2: 7.33 volts
If I reinstall my house batteries fully charge will they start the generator.
I'm in the process of placing my rig in storage. I need to run Sta-Bil through the generator before storing for the winter.
Thanks Ron,
I tested the batteries with a volt meter.
Battery 1: 6.14 volts
Battery 2: 7.33 volts
Assuming the converter or solar controller is operating to drive the one battery voltage to 7.33 volts. It appears the other battery is on its way out.
Shut the converter and solar controller off and see what the voltage of each battery is tomorrow. Please let us know what the readings are.
Larry
Hi Larry.
I pulled the batteries. I have them in my garage. The wall charge controller's charging green light is on. Does that mean the solar panels are still operating?
Hi Larry.
I pulled the batteries. I have them in my garage. The wall charge controller's charging green light is on. Does that mean the solar panels are still operating?
We need more info. The batteries are in the garage, but is anything (like a charger) attached to them? The 7.33V reading suggests something might be attached.
The way to test the voltage is to leave the batteries alone (not attached to any loads or charges) for 8 hours or so and then check the resting voltage and report back.
Green light on the charge controller could indicate that there is sun on the panels. I would be curious to know it it's still green at night. I have an aftermarket setup though, so I can't say what's going on in your situation.
Figuring out solar/charging/battery issues takes some patience and systematic troubleshooting. Baseline battery condition is a great place to start.
Rich
Hi Rich.
The batteries are not connected to a charger. I pulled them from my LD yesterday.
I'll check to see if the green charging light is on once the sun goes down.
Just a side note. I've owned my LD for over 9 years. Never an issue with the solar.
How old are the batteries?
Larry
2022 and this is the first time I've removed them from my RV during the winter.
It's dark and I just checked the green light on my control panel. It's off.
So this is telling me the panels are functioning.
It's dark and I just checked the green light on my control panel. It's off.
So this is telling me the panels are functioning.
Maybe, no way to confirm this without measuring the solar panels and controller's amperage output when the sun is shining
Larry.
Right now I just need enough power to start my generator so I can circulate Start-Bil through the system.
If I reinstall charged batteries will it turn over the generator?
"If I reinstall charged batteries will it turn over the generator?"
Probably? But based on the voltages you measured--6.14 volts and 7.33 volts--your battery #1 probably has a bad cell, so no guarantees. It's worth a try, though. (I assume you mean STA-BIL (https://www.walmart.com/search?q=sta-biol).)
To add to what others have said:
1. If your batteries are still under warranty, you should see whether you can get a replacement for the bad one. Normally, it's a good idea to replace both batteries in a pair at the same time, but if they're only two years old, you might be OK replacing just one.
2. If you do decide to replace both batteries, seriously consider changing to lithium (LiFePO4) batteries. Lithium rechargeables have many advantages over lead-acid--more power, less weight, zero maintenance, and more--and prices have come down to where they're not much more expensive. Several of our members have had good experiences with SOK brand batteries. Avoid the widely advertised Battle Born brand. They're seriously overpriced, under-featured, and not particularly well constructed.
3. Definitely consider replacing your solar controller. The RV-30 is quite inefficient compared to the new MPPT controllers. (And if you go to lithium batteries, you'll need a controller that can be programmed for their requirements.) The Blue Sky SB3000i controller (https://www.amazon.com/SB3000i-Solar-Boost-Charge-Controller/dp/B076MQM7PW) that Larry mentioned is a popular and reliable choice. It'll milk more power from the panels you have, and its three-stage charging is your batteries as well.
Thanks Andy.
I may be selling my LD this Spring. I don't want to invest the cost of lithium batteries. They are crazy expensive.
As far as the controller upgrade. I I purchased the one you mentioned would it be a plug and play or would it require rewiring?
Mark
Thanks Andy.
I may be selling my LD this Spring. I don't want to invest the cost of lithium batteries. They are crazy expensive.
As far as the controller upgrade. If I purchased the one you mentioned would it be a plug and play or would it require rewiring?
The wiring is the same if installing a Blue Sky 3000i.
Larry
Thanks Larry.
I will purchase and install one.
"lithium batteries... are crazy expensive."
I'm not trying to talk you into anything, but just for the record: they're not.
A pair of 225 amp-hour Interstate 6V batteries--the low-cost alternative to the ones Lazy Daze installed--will run you around $400. A pair of 100 Ah 12 V lithium batteries (which actually give you more usable power) will cost anywhere from $340 to $600. They're only a little more expensive, if at all.
Thanks Larry.
I will purchase and install one.
The 3000i has a hardwired battery temperature sensor, I'm not sure if the RV-30s controller had one.
if so, the two sensors are different The RV-30s' sensor will need to be cut off, at the sensor, and the 3000ii's sensor will be spliced in using the same wire. This eliminates trying to run a new sensor wire from the solar controller to the battery.
If lithium batteries, the sensor is not needed and can be eliminated. The 300i work fine with lithium.
Are lithium costs too high? how about $188 each for a known brand?
LiTime 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Deep Cycle Battery – LiTime-US (https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?variant=43673498747100)
More choices here.
LiTime Battery Christmas Sale 2024 – LiTime-US (https://www.litime.com/pages/christmas-deals)
Larry
Thanks Larry.
With lithium batteries, can you use one 12 volt instead of two 6 volts?
It doesn't appear the SB3000i has a battery sensor,
the SB3000i Temp sensor does.
It doesn't appear the SB3000i has a battery sensor,
the SB3000i Temp sensor does.
You would use a pair of 100 A-hr lithiums wired in parallel instead of a pair of 225 A-hr 6V batteries wired in series. The lithium batteries do not need a temp monitoring function - it should be disabled.
Steve
Mark. The SB3000i is the same in both. The one that is $30 more comes with a $30 temperature sensor, for installation with lead acid batteries that generally need a compensated charging voltage, dependent on the battery temperatures. The Lithium batteries are generally only available in 12volt (really 12.8 volts ranging up to 13.3 volts at full charge) or 24 volts; that won't work with a 12 volt designed motorhome.
You can go with a single 12 volt Lithium battery. RonB
"You can go with a single 12 volt Lithium battery."
That's certainly cheaper than two lithium batteries. Could you suggest one?
Wouldn’t Mark also need a lithium compatible converter?
Hi Greg; The advantage here is that Lithium batteries don't require as high a voltage to charge as lead acid batteries do. So the factory supplied converter, that outputs 13 to 14 volts to charge a lead acid at a higher rate, will do fine with LiF. It won't charge as fast as the LiF can accept, and the four stage converter feature is wasted because the bulk/absorb/float/equalize actually gets in the way of quick charging a LiF battery.
My 1999 came with a Magnetek 6345, and it had two outputs and a relay that disconnects the battery, uses a more regulated output to run the house 12v circuits, and a less regulated circuit to charge the battery. (not well, not fast).
Reprogramming the SB3000i Solar controller essentially removes that feature from the solar PV output.
Similarly, I believe that in 2002 the factory was still using diode isolator separation, so the voltage applied to the battery from the engine alternator should be up at 14.8 volts. My installed Multiscan showed that voltage for about 20+ years while I drove. That will charge a LiFePO4 battery well. The built-in BMS will protect the LiF battery from overcharging.
Less expensive Li batteries are out there, but my recommendation as (always) is the SOK 206. Metal case, built in heater, Bluetooth with capacity SOC, and a good track record. Two hundred amp hours for $585. And UL approved also.
Amazon.com: SOK 12V 206AH Lifepo4 Lithium Battery, 4000~8000 cycles Support... (https://www.amazon.com/SOK-Lifepo4-4000-8000-Bluetooth-Trolling/dp/B0DJP1M1ZH/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1Q17SPSL1GFSY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.oatdQ94CoKM7ZnGnj5geacxTFuA8VfvOUPbh604GbQhnqeXsnOpWm9G8HJ_PYhCZ7QVOPOiCqTtd7rudEYIbPTOBRSQ-FpaaQPjNvWjXVp6kyKfPli6oWPmU1xkVpfFDuwNnojZxrq3yTh-LH089hWp-wo69d-b5j97PSUMrA3R-lm4t5rtvEc1O-Tj9wsuuh2eHmlNJM0zFB1taUikJjHd1usHDaHwoA8rO26cV_VCdr4gIgvpN5ER6dJZmakJ7.JxmVRyyaizxILD47luEPdK_Z9c4CU5hcnT0xUEWeHW0&dib_tag=se&keywords=sok%2B206%2Blifepo4%2Bmetal%2Bcase%2Bbattery&qid=1734980320&sprefix=sok%2B206%2Blifepo4%2Bmetal%2Bcase%2Bbattery%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-4&th=1)
Bottom of the barrel choices abound. I wouldn't go cheaper than: Amazon.com: ADCBATT LiFePO4 Battery 100AH, 12V Lithium Battery with Low Temp... (https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Battery-Certificates-Lifetime-100AH-LTH-1PCS-0322/dp/B09GLTLZ5B/ref=sr_1_7_sspa?crid=1Q17SPSL1GFSY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.oatdQ94CoKM7ZnGnj5geacxTFuA8VfvOUPbh604GbQhnqeXsnOpWm9G8HJ_PYhCZ7QVOPOiCqTtd7rudEYIbPTOBRSQ-FpaaQPjNvWjXVp6kyKfPli6oWPmU1xkVpfFDdcfi-g33aklBAXavY_UEuw.kiM82W014LkxWQpQ0SzxQ1x-2VN8SdYe1q4Yv2rcqww&dib_tag=se&keywords=sok+206+lifepo4+metal+case+battery&qid=1734980320&sprefix=sok+206+lifepo4+metal+case+battery%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-7-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&psc=1) You aren't doing yourself or any 'next owner' of your rig a favor with the 'low price leaders' out there. Some of the batteries that Will Prowse has torn apart in the past are examples of 'a dangerous waste of money' items. RonB
"That's certainly cheaper than two lithium batteries."
It's not a case of one battery being cheaper than two. Your current pair of batteries give you 225 amp hours at 12 V, and I assume you don't want less than that. So if you go lithium, you want about 200 Ah, whether it's in the form of two 100 Ah batteries or a single larger 200 Ah battery as Ron suggested. (Lithium batteries deliver more power than similarly rated lead-acid batteries, so 200 Ah of lithium are comparable to 225 Ah of lead-acid.)
So lithium isn't a cheap solution. But it can be cost-competitive with lead-acid, and it offers several advantages. And it certainly won't hurt the resale value of your rig.
Thanks!
For now I hope I can recharge my current batteries enough start the generator. I need to cycle Start-Bil through the system before I store is for the Winter. In the Spring I'll replace the acid batteries with a lithium battery.
Hi Mark; You can also start the vehicle engine and have it running. The alternator can feed power directly to the house batteries on the order of 100 Amps or so. This will assist the house batteries. They could be nearly dead, if you ever really needed the generator to start and run. The generator provides 110VAC power back to the converter. The converter then provides 14.5 Volts DC back to charge the house batteries.
Three sources can simultaneously charge the house batteries. 1) Solar power from sunlight on panels, via the solar controller. 2) V10 engine Alternator if it is running and has spare power. The engine comes first, headlights/other lights, A/C clutch and fans, dash and radio, chassis battery, engine computer. 3) Converter power, using 110vac from the generator converted to 14+volts to charge the house batteries. And of course if you have shore power 110VAC, that will provide 14vdc to the house batteries to help start the generator.
Some gensets also provide a small 12vdc output from the genset back through the 12volt starter line, but I think that is for residential emergency generators where the battery is only used to start the generator, after a power failure. RonB
Thanks Ron. Great information.
As soon as my current batteries are fully charged, I'll attempt to start the generator.
Happy Holidays!