Been thinking a little more about a possible solar/ battery upgrade in the future and am thinking that installing a smaller inverter would be a good idea. My understanding is that inverters need good ventilation so wondering where folks who have done this addition in a Midbath located their inverter?
I’m thinking I would like to add two more batteries also so will probably place them in the cabinet underneath the fridge. Could an inverter go there as well? If so, would it create excessive heat underneath the fridge?
Lastly, and most importantly, where, in the heck am I gonna put all the canned goods?!
Hi Greg.You can do an install like Tim Reeve (T&F) did. He put three SOK batteries (600 AH) where the battery box was. Below that, a 3 kw Victron multibus inverter. You can keep your canned goods where they are now.
The 1200watts on the roof was pretty much overkill. You could do great with just 600 w.
Tim can run his roof air on a sunny day without impacting his batteries. RonB
Hi Greg. I have both the charge controller and a 1500 watt inverter installed in the storage compartment below the batteries. Works well since 5 years. A lot of my canned goods are in the (inside) storage compartment below the fridge - I'm glad to have that space. Klaus
When installing large inverters in MBs, They were located in the compartment under the battery box. Since jobs included installing AGMs, the battery box was cut away to increase the available space. With lithium batteries, you can do the same.
Before starting a project like this, consider how much power and capacity you need now and your future desires.
Inverters, lithium batteries, and solar panels are much cheaper now than just a few years ago, so don’t undersize the system.
Buy once, cry once.
Larry
"The 1200watts on the roof was pretty much overkill. You could do great with just 600 w. Tim can run his roof air on a sunny day without impacting his batteries."
Depends upon your definition of "impact." :-) No matter how big your battery bank is, you still have to replace the power you take out (and a bit more).
A typical roof air conditioner uses something like 1,200 watts. (I'm sure somebody can fill in exact numbers here.) So with 600 watts of panels, running the A/C for, say, six hours would require twelve hours of full sunlight to replace the power you used. Wouldn't matter if you pulled a trailer full of batteries; you'd still have to put back the 6 hours x 1,200 watts = 7,200 watt-hours (about 600 amp-hours) that you just took out. That's going to take a long time with 600 watts of panels.
I know this has been said before, but it bears repeating: when designing a solar power system, you gotta keep in mind that no matter how big your battery bank is, you have to be able to replace the power you use--and replace it in a reasonable amount of time.
the battery box was cut away to increase the available space.
That's what I did. Got everything in there and installed the inverter on the "ceiling."
jor
Several people mentioned locating the inverter in the compartment under the battery box in a midbath. I'm assuming they mean the compartment that has the water tank drain.
Does anyone have a photo of an installed inverter in that location ? I'd like to get an idea of how much space it uses.
Bill Moss
That is where my 2KW Magnum inverter/charger is installed. It takes up about 1/3 of the compartment. There are two small louvers for venting. I have never seen the inverter fault due to overtemp in ten years.
I may end up regretting the location that Discount Solar put the inverter (the interior compartment under the fridge, at my direction) if I ever want to have more than two batteries. Presently, I keep my dumping materials in the compartment below the battery box. Could additional batteries be installed in that compartment rather than an inverter?
Could additional batteries be installed in that compartment rather than an inverter?
Sure. I added a 4th battery there. Here's a couple of photos.
jor
Sure. I added a 4th battery there. Here's a couple of photos.
Interesting! So do you have three batteries in the original battery compartment?
do you have three batteries in the original battery compartment?
Actually, I removed the battery slide gizmo and the plastic case. That gave me enough room to install three batteries, an inverter and the attendant solar stuff.
jor
Here is an example of an inverter installed in the exterior compartment under the battery box.
Prosine 2.0 Inverter | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/albums/72157659265992299/with/21450822434)
Larry
Some people use a rule of thumb of 200W of solar for every 100amp-hr of battery.
Ron S
Interesting. For a long time the rule of thumb was 100 watts for each 100 amp-hours. But perhaps with LiFePO4 batteries that has changed?
But of course it all depends upon where you are. For example, in the Pacific Northwest, where it's often cloudy and many campsites are shaded by trees, one would need a lot more solar panels per amp-hour than in the desert Southwest.
That's what I did. Got everything in there and installed the inverter on the "ceiling."
jor
JOR,
I really like how your solar system uses the factory battery area!
I have a question, when installing an inverter, what happens to the factory converter? I know mine needs to be upgraded to use with lithium batteries. Is there a point in buying one if adding solar inverter charger?
Not all inverters have the ability to charge the coach battery. Inverters can be whole-house or stand-alone with outlets located on the inverter.
What do you want to operate and do you want the receptacles wired to be powered when the inverter is on?
Think about what you need. The more complicated, the greater the cost.
Larry
when installing an inverter, what happens to the factory converter?
Like Larry says, there are different ways of doing it. In my case, I installed a 2200 watt inverter and wired it as a "whole house" system. In other words, when the inverter is turned on, it's just like plugging the rig into an external power source. Even the A/C will work but of course, it would drain those lithiums in no time. I also replaced the OEM converter with a newer model that has a setting for lithium batteries.
If I were doing this project again I wouldn't bother with the converter upgrade. Instead, I would install an inverter-charger. This configuration replaces the factory converter. It's more costly but also a more elegant solution.
Most users do as I did: upgrade the converter and install an inverter. However, when you do it this way, the inverter cannot be on when the converter is charging. Anyhow, either installation method works just fine.
jor
Hi Jor. Yeah it’s pretty interesting all the different ways folks have installed their systems. I’m a bit jealous of those of you that have that skill set as a lot of money can be saved when you do your own work, but electrical stuff is not my forte. I don’t have any intent to expand the system at this point, but if I ever do, I may regret my choice to put the inverter under the refrigerator. As Larry says, buy once, cry once!
I am plugged into shore power right now and here’s a screenshot from the Xantrex inverter-charger. The factory converter is disconnected so the Xantrex is apparently doing all the work now.
I don’t have any intent to expand the system at this point, but if I ever do, I may regret my choice to put the inverter under the refrigerator.
I am plugged into shore power right now and here’s a screenshot from the Xantrex inverter-charger. The factory converter is disconnected so the Xantrex is apparently doing all the work now.
Mounting extra batteries or an inverter under the refrigerator is where most upgraded electrical pieces are mounted. There are not a lot of choices.
A MB has plenty of storage, many owners store canned goods under one of the dinette's seats.
As an owner of a shorter floorplan, we have much less storage space and we get it all in, including a lot of tools and spare parts, mostly used to keep my friends' LDs operational.
When parked at home, to save using shore power, I leave the converter off, the solar panels keep the battery fully charged.
Did the techs adjust your solar controller for lithium batteries?
Larry
Hi Will; I upgraded my converter back in 2020 to utilize my lead acid batteries better. It sat in the box for a year before I got it installed. Then another few months before I got my battery management system installed Along with that I had new solar panels for 350 W and Kent's old R3000i controller. By then in late 2022 my monitor revealed that my wla (wet lead acid) batteries were getting marginal, so the debate was to stay with new lead acid, or go Lithium. Then Kent sent me a notice about a new LiFePO4 battery that had a thin steel case (10Ga) instead of an inch thick plastic box, that was the size of a GC2 but 200+ AH each. Two would fit in my battery box with room left over.
So I did that. The converter was new enough I didn't want to change it out. By changing a jumper it runs Li batteries. The Solar Boost 30000i was reprogrammed for LiF. I didn't have room in a T/K for a large inverter. The 2+kw true sine wave had to fit through a drawer hole, but only runs a hair dryer or the microwave, but not both at the same time. No roof A/C either.
Your MidBath can do the weight and size of a combined charger, (either from shore or generator or solar/and inverter) as a combined unit. Tim R. (T&F) used a Victron Multibus and three SOK 206's in his MidBath. The Victron is mounted in the outside compartment below his battery compartment. I think he has kept the old converter, but turned off, as a backup if necessary. RonB
edit: Good Question Larry! There are instructions and a program online to reprogram the SB3000i. How to program BSE charge controllers for LiFePO4 batteries – Sunforge LLC (https://sunforgellc.com/how-to-program-bse-charge-controllers-for-lifepo4-batteries/) about halfway down for the front panel reprogram. RB
Mounting extra batteries or an inverter under the refrigerator is where most upgraded electrical pieces are mounted. There are not a lot of choices.
A MB has plenty of storage, many owners store canned goods under one of the dinette's seats.
As an owner of a shorter floorplan, we have much less storage space and we get it all in, including a lot of tools and spare parts, mostly used to keep my friends' LDs operational.
When parked at home, to save using shore power, I leave the converter off, the solar panels keep the battery fully charged.
Did the techs adjust your solar controller for lithium batteries?
Yeah, I can move most of the stuff currently stored below the rear dinette elsewhere and put canned goods there . I’m also thinking of building a removable shelf above the inverter to store food but will need to ensure proper ventilation is maintained somehow.
The install tech told me the BlueSky was reprogrammed for lithium but I’ll take a look at Ron’s link and double check. Things seem to be working well but I will be stopping by Discount Solar tomorrow as I have a few questions. I’m going to stay in the area for a few more days before heading home.
Another inverter question. Prior to installing the Xantrex whole house inverter–charger, I was using this little 500W inverter to power a DVD player. The inverter is plugged into the 12V outlet in the cabinet next to the entertainment center and is turned on via the 12V outlet rocker switch. The inverter is quite noisy when running so is a bit annoying when trying to watch a movie. From a noise standpoint, it would be better if I ran a short extension cord for the DVD player over to the nearest outlet powered by the Xantrex. But what about from a power efficiency aspect? Would it be better to continue using the small inverter to watch movies?
Prior to installing the Xantrex whole house inverter–charger, I was using this little 500W inverter to power a DVD player.
I was doing the same, Greg, to power the TV and DVD player. I ended up adding a 120V outlet in the same cabinet and just using the new inverter for power. I never compared the energy usage between the two but eliminating the loud fan noise of the little inverter was my goal. The 120v outlet I used also has a couple of USB ports so that same cabinet serves as a nice charging port for devices.
jor
That’s a great idea! Where did you tie into 120V system?
For USB phone charging, I installed one of these outlets above each bed. I got the idea from another forum member.
Where did you tie into 120V system?
At the power center. I removed my microwave some time ago so I used that circuit.
jor
At the power center. I removed my microwave some time ago so I used that circuit.
What!, no bread box?
Without a microwave, I have little use for a large inverter. Nothing else uses more than a couple hundred watts.
I seriously doubt the A/C will ever be run using the inverter.
Larry
Two of the main reasons I wanted a large enough inverter is so that a microwave oven and drip coffee maker could be used without running the generator. Anything else is gravy!
Without a microwave, I have little use for a large inverter. Nothing else uses more than a couple hundred watts.
I seriously doubt the A/C will ever be run using the inverter.
Really have no use for a microwave. I removed it from other rigs too. We need the inverter to run our electric kettle, toaster oven, vacuum cleaner, e-bike chargers and a couple other things. The inverter can power the A/C just fine although those four LiTimes would bleed out fast. I've always had inverters and would feel unclothed without one. Also, it was a fun project! :D
jor
If you NEVER use a microwave at home, then why keep one in the rig? BUT, for us it is nice for all those little quick tasks in the rig we similarly use it for at home - and the short time usage makes little dent in the A-hr bank...
Steve
p.s. You do give up a large available storage area if you keep the nuker, but after 35 yrs in FLs, you learn to maximize what you have...