I followed in the footsteps of LATLJUS and installed a DC frig. It's a Norcold N8DC and is designed to replace our Dometics. It juuuuuuust fits depth-wise and is a little narrower and shorter than the Dometic. It screws in from the sides just like the Dometic and I added one screw on the bottom back. I added 1 1/4" trim around the front.
Sitting in my driveway, it's working great. On the middle setting, it keeps the freezer right about zero and the frig about 40. This is with outside temps in the 80s and low 90s. So far I am very pleased with its energy consumption. Of course, we're not opening it as we would while traveling but so far so good. We're going to take off on a trip in a week or two so I'll get some real use data but for now, so far so good.
I got the 8 cu ft Norcold but I believe their 10 will also fit.
The photo with the arrow shows the built in exterior latch.
jor
Looks great!
Was there space to upgrade the insulation?
Looking forward to hearing about the real world energy usage as I’d love to remove my factory fridge and use up a bit more of my 400ah of Lithium. capacity.
The extra 2 cu/ft of the N8DC's 8 cu/ft interior is a big improvement over the Dometic 6 cu/ft capacity. This is almost 60 extra quarts, a lot more than the 40 qt electric ice chest we carry. The next time the refrigerator dies, an electric model may replace it, depending on the power usage and if our LS's smaller electrical system can handle it without adding more solar, our roof is almost filled.
Checking Norcold's site, the 10cu/ft N10DC refrigerator is 6" taller than the N8DC and will not fit most LDs, even with modifications.
Larry
Was there space to upgrade the insulation?
Dave, there is room on the outside wall for 1" of insulation. The first photo in my original post shows what I did. I also covered the vent door with Reflectix. There really isn't enough room on the sides but then the sides are inside the rig!
the 10cu/ft N10DC refrigerator is 6" taller than the N8DC
Larry, Right you are. The frig itself would fit but there's only 4" or so available above the control unit for the 8' model.
jor
These still generate heat. Is that still vented out the top? Is there vent/airflow under these units like home ones? I ask since the exterior door is now blocked.
I am considering the Vitrifrigo AC/DC fridge below. Wondering if this model would fit width wise in the existing Dometic refrigerator space. The height and depth appear to be OK. Please provide me feedback. Thank you!
Dimensions & Specifications of Vitrifrigo DP2600IBD4-F-2:
Total volume (Cu. Ft.)
8.1
Freezer volume (Cu. Ft.)
2.1
Net weight (Lbs.)
136.7
Power supply
12/24Vdc - 100-240Vac 50/60Hz
Nominal consumption
65 W (5.38A) - 12Vdc / 65 W (0.76A) - 115Vac
Overall width (In.)
24 13/16
Overall height (In.)
53 5/16
Overall depth (In.)
23 11/16
Panel color
black
JOR, I think you are still going to need some air flow on the back of your frig. That little fan has to exhaust and make up some air from somewhere.
Jon
Is that still vented out the top? Is there vent/airflow under these units like home ones?
I think you are still going to need some air flow on the back of your frig.
I think I'm good for air flow. Lots of room on top. The frig has leveling legs and it sits an inch or so above the floor. The back of the frig has stoppers (they call them breaks) which provide space between my insulation and the tubing on the back of the frig. If you put your hand under the frig compartment you can feel the air blowing by.
I no longer have the top vent as I removed it for my solar installation. I sealed it with a piece of aluminum and installed a combiner box over it for the solar wiring (4 awg).
jor
Hi Jor; Jon and Ramon have pointed out this problem. A refrigerator/freezer is just a heat pump that 'pumps' heat energy from one place to another. In this case from your food compartments to the air outside the box, and it needs to go somewhere. When you said that you had covered over the roof vent, I assumed that you would have installed a side vent near the roof (outlet), and of course kept the airflow lower side vent (inlet) intact. Many trailers and motorhomes with slide-outs do this also.
The owners Manual: https://norcold.com/wp-content/uploads/_pda/2019/07/OM_N8DCX_N10DCX-10_640137F_20230109.pdf and an excerpt of page 7: "Refrigerator Care Checklist", at the bottom:
"- Make sure the air flow in the lower intake vent, through the refrigerator condenser and coils and out the upper exhaust vent is not blocked or decreased. ".
So you will (void the warrantee) unless you restore that side vent, and the upper vent also, to get that heat away from the motorhome.
RonB
So you will need to restore that side vent, and that upper vent also, to get that heat away from the motorhome.
[/quote
Not necessary, the refrigerator can vent its hot air into the interior, the same as our home refrigerators. It can be set up to vent to the outside too. Since Jor has sealed the exterior access panel as well as covered the roof vent, he is committed to the interior venting now. His refrigerator is reported to be working fine with good interior temp in warm weather, it wouldn't do so if the condenser's waste heat was not removed through venting.
Larry
Not necessary, the refrigerator can vent its hot air into the interior, the same as our home refrigerators. It can be set up to vent to the outside too.
A system that could do both (adjustable, summer/winter) seems like a good idea to me.
Rich
I'm going with Larry on this one. Like I said, there is plenty of air circulation going on. The top and side vents are sure necessary for the gas frig but not for the compressor frig in my opinion as it vents to the entire interior of the coach. I know many class A owners that have installed residentials and most plugged up both of those holes.
It's late in the year now so we're only in the 80s but when summer rolls around again, if the frig is putting too much heat into the coach, I'll restore the side vent. We'll see!!! :D
jor
Good info on 12 volt Refrigerators.
12-Volt RV Refrigerators Truths - Let's RV (https://letsrv.com/12-volt-rv-refrigerators/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_8210647)
RonS
Good info on 12 volt Refrigerators.
12-Volt RV Refrigerators Truths - Let's RV (https://letsrv.com/12-volt-rv-refrigerators/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_8210647)
Interesting read and possibly explains why so many newer rigs have 12-volt refrigerators.
The power usage test shows why a robust solar and battery system is needed to use a 12-volt refrigerator. With 75-100-amp/hours of power needed daily for the refrigerator plus the other electrical drains from daily living, this will require a full roof of solar panels, more batteries plus not minding always being parked in the sun. Could be fun in the summer.
For long-term boondocking, propane still seems to have an advantage, especially when winter camping or parked in the shade.
A full tank of propane can run the refrigerator for a long time and is a lot less expensive than the mega solar and battery upgrade needed for a 12-volt refrigerator.
More efficient electric refrigerators that use less power are needed. Electrics have been used on boats for years, often with custom-built lockers with the cooling unit remotely mounted. The mechanical parts being separate results in heat transfer into the locker. The locker walls can be many inches thick of high-R foam, instead of the inch or so of foam in RV gas or electric refrigerators. If interested in building your own, before is one of the many available 12-volt cooling units.
DOMETIC CoolMatic Cooling Conversion Kit | West Marine (https://www.westmarine.com/dometic-coolmatic-cooling-conversion-kit-7895881.html)
Manufacturers and RV builders can do better to make electric refrigerators less power-consuming.
Larry
OP here. I took Larry's suggestion and installed a dedicated meter on the DC frig. I have a Victron 712 already but this little unit will separate the frig's power consumption from the rest of the coach. I installed it right next to one of the batteries. Just open the compartment and see what's up. The wiring is a little funky but I'll probably remove it once I have a handle on the current draw of the frig. I am really looking forward to seeing how this does on the road. Hopefully, we'll get out of here in a week or so. Just gotta figure out where we're going! :D
jor
I think I'm good for air flow. Lots of room on top. The frig has leveling legs and it sits an inch or so above the floor. The back of the frig has stoppers (they call them breaks) which provide space between my insulation and the tubing on the back of the frig. If you put your hand under the frig compartment you can feel the air blowing by.
Ok, thanks for the update.. I looks like you put trim around the entire perimeter to close gaps and it is hard to tell on top if there is a gap for hot air to escape in front of the fridge and to the living area or not, which is why I asked. My home fridge is huge and in a tight spot... in the summer it does not cool as well as now, meaning It runs more than I like in the summer... should have bought a smaller unit but there are 5 of us. I would need to raise a cabinet above it or pull it out more but that creates other problems. Coils are clean as that wreaks havoc as well. Please keep us posted.
I have researched these and have one planned for our new RV, though I am looking at a different brand (though similar).
Venting happens under the refrigerator, out to the front of the fridge.
Usage is roughly 5 amps an hour - potentially less depending how much it is opened and temps (inside and outside).
There are units that have two compressors
- one for the freezer and one for the fridge, potentially 4-5 amps but if the freezer is opened a lot less the amps on that can be lower.
The one compressor units work similar to absorption in that the fridge temp is tied into the freezer one (eg x degrees less).
With two separate compressors you can set the temperature for each compartment (freezer, fridge) separately.
Bigger solar/battery is needed for boondocking, especially if you are also adding mini split(s) - heat pumps that do cold air conditioning and heating, and/or Starlink.
With two separate compressors you can set the temperature for each compartment (freezer, fridge) separately.
I don't know how it's accomplished but the single compressor Norcold allows for setting separate temps.
jor
The one compressor units work similar to absorption in that the fridge temp is tied into the freezer one (eg x degrees less).
With two separate compressors you can set the temperature for each compartment (freezer, fridge) separately.
This seems unlikely - as with a home fridge where valving is used to adjust fridge/freezer differential, I imagine that is the case with RV compressor models. Absorption fridges don't have that as a viable option. Dual compressors would only be used in situations where the fridge is accessed frequently - such as a restaurant. Hard to believe one designed for low energy consumption as in an RV would use this solution.
Steve
Dual compressors would only be used in situations where the fridge is accessed frequently - such as a restaurant. Hard to believe one designed for low energy consumption as in an RV would use this solution.
After searching, I found that none of the available electric refrigerators that fit our LDs have dual compressors.
Steve has it right, the refrigerant is controlled by valves that direct the refrigerant to the needed compartment's evaporator.
I would like to see a link to a refrigerator that does have dual compressors and will fit in an LD's refrigerator opening.
Larry
I would suspect that the dual controls on JORs frig is a lot like our house hold frig. There is a temp control ( thermostat) that controls temp then the second control is a damper that redirects air from the freezer to the cooler section. I dought that dometic or whoever would go to the expense of solenoid valves but maybe.
Jon
Check out Nova Kool Manufacturing ULC (https://www.novakool.com/)
Canadian, part of novacold company.
Info on temps being tied together come from the technical support at the company.
A side FYI, Dometic 12v users report many more problems than novakool.
OP here. I've been tracking the frig energy consumption for several days now. I have Larry's recommended measuring device dedicated to the frig. We're about ready to take off so both the freezer and frig are loaded. After filling the freezer I had to turn the freezer control to the maximum position (5). I have the big compartment on 3 or 4. The freezer is maintaining 2 to 3 degrees and the frig about 38 (1 to 5 with 5 being coldest).
So far, after three days measuring at the same time each morning, the new frig is consuming right about 600 watt hours in a 24 hour period. That's just about 50% of one of my three 100 ah lithiums (1280wh). Of course, this is a driveway measurement. Once we get going, I'll keep taking daily measurements and should have a realistic energy usage report.
This Norcold has a "night" mode which is supposed to be more efficient. You press the button and it goes into night mode for 8 hours. Not sure exactly how this works and I have not been using it thus far.
I'm just using solar now and the batteries jump right back to 100% but of course, we're in the Arizona sun country. We'll see how it goes. I have the DC to DC charger and of course, the generator as backup.
jor
I may have mentioned this before, but I've found Govee's inexpensive wireless temperature/humidity sensors (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R586J37?ie=UTF8&th=1)(twelve bucks on Amazon at the moment) extremely useful for tracking fridge/freezer performance. That's thanks to the well-designed Govee smartphone app, which in addition to showing current readings, can display historical data as a graph. You can also set alarm points for both low and high temperatures.
I have five of these little modules in use, monitoring temperatures in my rig's fridge, freeze , interior, and exterior, as well as in my truck's fridge. The Govee app provides a quick overview of all five, as well as detailed historical data on each.
(Govee recommends against using these in a refrigerator or freezer, but I've been using them that way for years with no problems.)
Jane (and Scott) mentioned NovaKool. And they do have a dual compressor model refrigerator that at 6.8 cubic feet total will fit in our coaches. The RFU6406 D is 46 1/2" tall. My Dometic is over 52" tall. The NovaKool is 20 1/4" wide and the Dometic is 24" wide. The depth is 19 3/4" deep. I didn't measure that but it should be less deep than the Dometic. Freezer is on the bottom. At 12. volts the current draw is 4.2A each compressor. I would hope that the two combined, after factoring in run time, would be about the same overall power as a one compressor box.
added on to original post: the RFU 8250 at 7.3 cubic feet is an even closer match to my Dometic Royale 'fridge (Lazy Daze original) at 52 7/8" x 23 1/4" x 19 1/2". So you get 1.3 cubic feet more storage. Pull out freezer drawer on the bottom so you don't lose as much cold air when open. Possibly you could run both compartments as refrigerators or both as freezers. Maybe a little double redundancy if one were to suddenly fail (medications?).
I would probably go with the single compressor model. Then I could preload it in my angled driveway, and I could leave it running after returning from a trip, instead of having to unload it immediately like I have been doing for the last 35 years. I would add another Li battery (or two) for 600 AH, or 800 AH (10.4 kwh total 4 batteries).
Larry, you could dispense with the extra cooler and get the space between seats back.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f3bfb120aae2d0e9e21afe5/t/64c98a17e8660221b0119037/1690929687743/Spec+Sheet+ImperialMetricLT+2023+-+R5.pdf RonB
Hey, Andy. Are you running a cryogenics lab in that Airstream!!! :D
jor
Jane (and Scott) mentioned NovaKool. And they do have a dual compressor model refrigerator that at 6.8 cubic feet total will fit in our coaches.. I would hope that the two combined, after factoring in run time, would be about the same overall power as a one compressor box.
I would like to know what a dual-compressor long-term power usage is compared to single-compressor models, adjusted for the decrease in interior space compared to an 8 cu/ft model.
Having a second compressor means giving up storage space..... 8 cu/ft vs 6.8 cu/ft.
Originally I had thought one of the apparent advantages of going electric was the significant increase in refrigerator volume,
Our Dometic propane-powered refrigerator stays at 40 degrees or lower in very hot conditions and the ice cream stays frozen, I think we will stay with the Dometic for the time being. It has added insulation and fans that make a difference in staying cold and reducing propane consumption.
We always have plenty of propane but can't always say the same about sunlight and solar power
Larry
"Are you running a cryogenics lab in that Airstream!"
The fridge is normally quite stable at 37° F ± 2°, but the freezer temperature fluctuates more than I'd like, and I'm beginning to suspect that my placement of the Inkbird digital thermostat's (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OXPE8U6?ie=UTF8&psc=1) sensor on the back wall of the fridge section may be less than ideal. I may try moving it to the freezer's cold plate to see whether that smooths things out. Balancing fridge and freezer temperatures is always a little tricky with a single-compressor fridge.
Hi SoCalendos; A little late here... The Vitrifigo you listed does seem about 3/4 " too wide, but I bet you can make it fit pretty easily. You would only need 3/8" shaved from each side of the mounting area framework. It is very close. My Dometic cutout seems to be exactly 24". I've never had mine out of position, but there should be 13/16" of spare room. I believe Andy had a Vitrifigo, possibly the exact same one. RonB
Appreciate the feedback on the Vitrifrigo. I'll try see if Andy posted anything about a Vitrifrigo install in LD in the past and possible experience with the unit.
I installed Vitrifrigo DP150 refrigerators in my 2003 Lazy Daze midbath and in my first (27') Airstream. The DP150 is a single-compressor model with smaller capacity than the DP2600, as I recall. Some minor trimming of woodwork was required, but nothing major.
And another thought on this thread about cooling air from the back. The 12vdc compressor refrigerators evidently want to vent hot air inside the rig. I prefer to keep that air outside.
Sealing would be needed since my water heater exhaust, generator exhaust, space heater exhaust and engine exhaust are all on that side just below the refrigerator. And the coach door, so sometimes also the barbeque vapors.
The NovaKool RFU8320 has the compressor at the bottom but compressed (hot) R134A coolant tubing on the entire back side, much like older residential refrigerators. RFU8320 — Nova Kool Manufacturing ULC (https://www.novakool.com/rfu8320-1) The cutout views at the bottom of the page show this arrangement.
This would work better for me.
Some iRV2 comments indicated the need to put more and better venting out the back, including the electric fans I already have. I would have to put in better fans and a way to only run them when the compressor was running. (maybe with a shutoff delay).
The Dometic refrigerator includes a drip pan across the back, just under the fins in the refrigerator compartment. Along with a drain line to below the motorhome. Is there such a provision for defrosting the compressor 'fridges?
RonB
Check out Nova Kool Manufacturing ULC (https://www.novakool.com/)
Canadian, part of novacold company.
I wonder if anyone might have tried using the single evaporator plate Nova Kool configuration to augment the freezer cooling ability of the Dometic unit installed by the factory? Like Larry, enjoying many days of refrigerator operation on propane appeals to me. We often have trouble getting the freezer compartment cold enough without overcooling the refrigerator compartment.
Hi Keith, you can adjust the ratio between refrigerator and freezer by sliding the white thermal sensor attached to the refrigerator fin on the right side. I'm not sure which way to slide it, but I think downward on the fin will make the refrigerator section colder. RonB
Hi Larry. Just looking at the NovaKool 9.1 cubic foot model RFU 9000, single compressor, might fit in your 'frig space. It might fit in my 'TK. Might need to adjust the cabinetry a bit, but it is close. The 9000 is pretty tight in back, but it's cooling coils are in the bottom; sucks air from the sides and blows out into the room through the grate at bottom.
Your front lounge furniture on the E450 chassis might fit better. Mine has about 1" clearance in back. About 3/4" space on each side for airflow to the back, and about 1 1/4" space at the top. Doable if I didn't mind the hot air blowing out of the bottom grille. I would leave the roof vent open, but prevent airflow through the side vent. Maybe an aluminum panel to transfer heat, but not exhaust gasses. Power consumption is 5.2 amps, but we don't know what duty cycle would be needed. You would get three more cubic feet of interior space. (standard Dometic is 6 cu/ft)
It is also available as a two compressor model. Same size specs, but 12vdc only. Maybe the adaptor from 110v AC to 12vdc went in the space the second compressor goes. Which doesn't matter to us. Plugged into shore power (or generator), the converter can easily handle it. The two compressor model is rated 4.2 Amps per compressor, but you get two separate thermostats. With proper additional fans in the back I might be able to run it without warm air going out into the motorhome. Or if I want to assist the space heater I can direct it into the interior.
a quick edit: a source Nova Kool RFU9000 9.1 CU FT DC Only Two Door Refrigerator & Freezer (https://www.suremarineservice.com/Galley/Two-Door-Upright-Refrigerator-Freezers/RFU9000DC.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA0syqBhBxEiwAeNx9Nz8LIqgQJyKOlMl3B4t8qwNlTFIv1DN0U8fC2esW3FRz5FzlwUtmohoCnkgQAvD_BwE) The profile picture reveals that I wouldn't have to remove the propane line. Just blank it off.
another edit: this boat store calls it a RFU 9200 two compressor model. Nova Kool RFU9200 9.1 Cu Ft. 258 L Refrigerator & Freezer AC/DC Or DC (https://yachtaidmarine.com/shop/marine-refrigerator/nova-kool-rfu9200-9-1-two-door-refrigerator-with-convenient-freezer-on-the-bottom-ac-dc-or-dc-only-copy/). Shop around for prices. RonB
I realize that a residential refrigerator is the least likely option for LD owners, unless they most often connect their coaches to shore power. However, except for the power source, the residential shares pros-and-cons with the 12V compressor-driven units: capacity, venting, individual temp-setting between refrigerator and freezer (may not be so for all designs), etc. So, hopefully my experience applies to those who are considering 12V refrigerators.
I did little boondocking with either the LD or the Class A. I did do a lot of driving. I liked the propane-electric refrigerators in both; silent, proven, economical. An ARP Fridge Defend unit (in the Class A) addressed the concern of cooling unit damage due to off-level operation. It also provided fans to circulate air inside the refrigerator section.
The Norcold 841 (eight cubic-feet) in the Class A started to decline in performance, and I had to decide what would replace it. To shorten the story, I ended up installing a ten cubic-foot Frigidaire residential refrigerator. It had the evaporator coils built into the sidewalls, so clearance between the sidewalls and the cavity was important. I installed the unit with less-than-recommended clearance, and it worked well enough. Venting was entirely to the inside of the coach. This did not seem to overload the single air conditioner, but then again I did not camp for long in temps above 85-90 degrees F. I had to install stops to prevent the doors from opening while underway. On the "oops" list, I discovered I could not remove/replace/move the interior glass shelves after I had installed the unit in its cavity. I got to install it twice!
I liked the extra capacity, more consistent temperature control and lack of concern for off-level operation. If I camped often without 120V I'd prefer a propane-electric unit with the ARP Fridge Defend, though. A 12V unit is an option for those with solar and battery capacity, of which I had neither on my two coaches.
Mark H.
"The 12vdc compressor refrigerators evidently want to vent hot air inside the rig. I prefer to keep that air outside."
I agree that outside venting is preferable. But of the four 12 V/120 V refrigerators I've had experience with, only one vented inside. That was the dorm-sized Dometic fridge in my 13' Trillium trailer. I wasn't crazy about that arrangement, so I added a fan and larger openings to improve ventilation. (Venting outside would have required major surgery, which I didn't want to do.)
My two Vitrifrigo DP150s and my current Vitrifrigo CF130 all vent to the outside, as installed. They could have been installed to vent inside, and in fact I know someone who installed a CF130 with inside venting, but since my rigs already had provision for outside venting, I took advantage of that.
Good chance most electric refrigerators can be modified to vent the exhaust heat to the outside, the needed exterior vents are already there. For those living in a hot climate, the last thing you want to do is add more heat to the interior in the summertime.
A thermostatically controlled fan or two to vent the exhaust heat from the rear of the refrigerator may prove to be helpful, as they are useful with absorption refrigerators.
It's a new world of improvements to explore for those willing to go to the expense and effort of installing an electric refrigerator and the major electrical upgrades needed to power it.
Larry
NovaKool - At 12. volts the current draw is 4.2A each compressor. I would hope that the two combined, after factoring in run time, would be about the same overall power as a one compressor box.
Ron, I was hoping that also but the answer was nope..
While the 4.2 is a max amps each, and the freezer, once cooled down and not gotten into often should be less, to be much less, I am planning more like 6 amps total.
Jane
Congratulations on your order of a BigFoot. They seem to still be in business, and are highly regarded. I hope you'll stay around our neighborhood.
When the time comes, and if I go the compressor route, I would probably go the single compressor route. The price for the two compressor model is much higher. About the best way to save energy with the two compressor model would be to run the freezer as an additional refrigerator. You still have some redundancy if one were to fail.
It would be convenient to have a gas absorption combined with a compressor model. While moving or parked really off level, or with plenty of solar/battery you could conserve propane. And electric as a back up if you are low on propane or far from refill sites. On especially hot days usually with good solar, if the absorption was struggling possibly run both to keep the 'ice cream' frozen. RonB
Ron, I was hoping that also but the answer was nope..
While the 4.2 is a max amps each, and the freezer, once cooled down and not gotten into often should be less, to be much less, I am planning more like 6 amps total.
Freezers need much more cooling per unit of volume due the the 30+ degree lower temperature than the refrigerator.
The greater the temperature difference from ambient, the greater the need for cooling. A small freezer could use as much power as a larger refrigerator unless additional insulation is added to just the freezer.
Larry