This is technical question and starting a new thread in technical forum rather than posting this delima in alaska trip thread ... as I am filling in details in Alaska trip I realize that we will be in US and Canadian National parks for weeks and weeks without shore power :-( If push come to shelf we will deal with it with a smile but if I can make life little easy why not .... but before execution I want to see if I am going in the right direction. This is very new to me ...
Biggest power hog and problematic area is bipap machine humedifier ... I can turn the humedifier off for a day or two but shutting it down for weeks (especially when inside and outside temp difference is high) will have significant impact on my life style but it is not life and death but again looking for alternatives ... Bipap with humedifier depletes fully charged 500W battery pack in 6-7 hours means bipap (mostly humedifier) use on average of 500/12/6 (around 7 amp per hour, three times more then I estimated initially). Humedifier is no the only culpirt, my pressure settings are little high as well.
Now if I buy something like this Amazon.com: SCREAM POWER LiFePO4 Battery 12V 400Ah Up to 7000 Deep Cycle... (https://www.amazon.com/SCREAM-POWER-Phosphate-Emergency-Parallel/dp/B095LBQBCP/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=VqSor&content-id=amzn1.sym.bc5f3394-3b4c-4031-8ac0-18107ac75816&pf_rd_p=bc5f3394-3b4c-4031-8ac0-18107ac75816&pf_rd_r=2RFA29RW595N68BJVV1T&pd_rd_wg=1OtNy&pd_rd_r=c4548d7b-dd2a-4bdb-a311-cc4291860b60&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m) and it is also available at ebay as well for little less ... it will give me 400ah for about 12-1300 dollars and life will be easy for few years. Problem is charging this monster battery ... I don't think foldable solar pannels will be enough ... tell me I am wrong, please .... and if you can send me a link for pannels which can keep this battery charged I will be very thankful. I will not be moving the battery it will be in the bed room (we have full bed setup which give some space between bed and sofa) and solar wires will be coming out of bedroom window.
Other option is to use the alternator and I am not ready to perform a major surgery and am not willing to put time in change the converter (to get more current out of the alternator). I have two six volt agm batteries connected in series under the fridge which are connected in parallel to batteries on the other side outside battery box. If I run the wire from the agm batteries sitting under the fridge and put a dc to dc charger in series and connect the wire to this monster 400ah battery, will this mechanism work? Of course I will always have to turn off dc to dc charger off when truck is not running and other unknown to me is if this dc to dc work just one way or both ways means is there any chance of current flow from lithium to agm batteries? Will stock converter and say 20amp dc to dc charger eliminate additional pressure on the alternator? Another unknown is current converter will create enough current to charge both coach batteries and one new battery.
Reason for this message was to pick your brain on why this is not a good plan. Hope this message is clear enough. I am not sold on this idea and can easily wait for agm battereis to die (and I will start abusing them now) and at that time if we decide to continue with Lazy Daze perhaps I can find an expert to do the things in the right way. Our plans to get expedition vehicle and go out of US/Canada is not as charming as it used to be after we saw crime ridden places in South America. I think there is enough in US and Canada to keep us busy for rest of our life. In the best case senario we can goto Ausgralia and NZ and rent RV for couple of moths instead of having a headache dealing with shipping agencies, insurances etc. etc.
Regards,
May I suggest a solar generator? I'm not happy with the generic name as there is no generation of any type from this setup just a battery with assorted plugs and doodads. With the addition of a couple of solar panels this could be the solution you are looking for Most solar generators come with a solar controller so you can connect the solar panel directly to the solar generator.
I have both a Jackery and Bluetti.
Best BLUETTI Solar Generators: What Are They? (https://www.bluettipower.com/pages/solar-generator)
Jackery Best Solar Generator, Portable Power Station & Solar Panels (https://www.jackery.com/)
I would recommend the Bluetti as it has better chemistry and doodads.
glen
Thanks you are suggesting what I looking at for couple of weeks. Guess seeing 400ah power battery was tempting. Solar generators or battery packs if I am lucky perhaps I will get for 2000wh which will be close to 160ah.
Thanks for the validation.
May I suggest a solar generator? I'm not happy with the generic name as there is no generation of any type from this setup just a battery with assorted plugs and doodads. With the addition of a couple of solar panels this could be the solution you are looking for Most solar generators come with a solar controller so you can connect the solar panel directly to the solar generator.
I have both a Jackery and Bluetti.
Best BLUETTI Solar Generators: What Are They? (https://www.bluettipower.com/pages/solar-generator)
Jackery Best Solar Generator, Portable Power Station & Solar Panels (https://www.jackery.com/)
I would recommend the Bluetti as it has better chemistry and doodads.
glen
Here's a suggestion about your BiPAP or CPAP: try using it with water in the reservoir, but with the humidifier (heater) turned off. You'll still get some humidification due to evaporation, but power consumption will be greatly reduced. This might be a workable compromise solution.
I will not be moving the battery it will be in the bed room (we have full bed setup which give some space between bed and sofa) and solar wires will be coming out of bedroom window.
I concur with Glen on the BLUETTI AC200P Portable Power Station (https://www.bluettipower.com/products/bluetti-ac200p-2000wh-2000w-portable-power-station), as it’s versatile in terms of charging and outputs, making it more useful to you and will cover what you need. Your link has double the battery, but the Bluetti is also an inverter, has many inputs/outputs and far more user friendly for what you are attempting, especially at the last minute.
I’m assuming the back king bed in a MB is the same as my TK, width wise, with the same style couches. If so, you should be able to use the space under the bed (couch) circled, hooking up the Bluetti to both the AC and 12v outlets for recharging purposes. Then run your BiPAP cord to the Bluetti. Occasionally you’ll run your generator to top off the Bluetti on days you don’t drive enough to recharge it. Or just have it sit in the corner on the bed.
Your situation is exactly why I spent a pretty penny last May adding 400ah of Lithium, 850 watts of Solar, and a 3000 watt inverter. My wife uses a CPAP with a humidifier, that, with StarLink I needed that much power.
Reason for this message was to pick your brain on why this is not a good plan. Hope this message is clear enough. I am not sold on this idea and can easily wait for agm batteries to die (and I will start abusing them now) and at that time if we decide to continue with Lazy Daze perhaps I can find an expert to do the things in the right way.
In the best case scenario we can goto Australia and NZ and rent RV for couple of months instead of having a headache dealing with shipping agencies, insurances etc. etc.
Don’t get hung up on waiting for your AGMs to die before upgrading to LiON batteries. AGMs aren’t fitting your RV use case needs. My AGMs were still fine when I tossed them for my upgrade.
If you are considering a RV rental down under, a Bluetti makes even more sense, assuming it’s possible to ship them, since rental RVs are very likely NOT to have enough battery capacity for you.
Glen and Dave,
When knowledgeable folks talk I listen ..... and that is the reason I keep coming here and I do wish I can help somebody in future as well. I executed on your advice, it was not very expensive to think too much about it ....
I am dreaming about getting rid of propane and generator (along with four AGM batteries) ..... time will tell ... now new Lithium batteries whose power I will never use is about 1K next phase should be size and weight amd more standard components to put them togather (we are seeing some of it in the battery pack)
Anyway, my horizon is short and instead of going for more famours brands and too many features I went for OK quality but made sure that batterytype and solar material is familier to me. I am not sure I need Y connector do I need it? and also not sure if solar controller is part of the pannel ... all the battery packs do have inverter built in but I dont think we have any 120V applience except for shaver and tooth past charger.
I know I need some kind of wire extension from solar controller which may be in the back of the solar pannel to bring power to the battery pack which would be in the bed room. As for bed room, we have the same setup as yours. We use one sofa and put a full bed on the other side. Both of us are not overly heavy and our travels keep us same way so full bed works. I you are aware of what kind of extention I need let me know. We have 15 days before we leave :-)
"I would recommend the Bluetti as it has better chemistry and doodads. "
I have had a small Bluetti for a bit over a year now and find it quite useful for my 300-watt rice cooker, and my 45-watt Hot Logic. This may not be usable for a CPAP machine, but it certainly has filled the bill for what I needed it for.
We didn't get a chance to try it out before he passed away, but we had acquired a 12-volt cable for my husband's CPAP machine. In use with a stand-alone battery, power usage will likely be less by plugging in a 12-volt appliance rather than utilizing the conversion feature to take it to 110.
When deciding how to beef up my "power plant", I am looking hard at a high-capacity Anker unit.
Anker Portable Power Station Expansion Battery 2048Wh - Anker US (https://www.anker.com/products/a1780)
It has two particularly nice features which allow a 30 amp connection, as well as expansion modules.
When stacked up against the "features" of a fuel-using generator, it has great appeal. But there are also many other considerations that tip the balance one way - and then the other - depending on the intended usage, and circumstances available for recharging with various methods.
If a generator is already in place, it could be utilized to recharge the Anker when it is propitious to run the generator, and then utilizing the "quiet power" of the Anker when it is "Quiet Time".
If solar panels are in place on the roof, having them charge the Anker during times when there is an abundance of rays would extend your ability to use power at night.
The battery on my Pleasure-Way is an 80-Ahr AGM, for a paltry run time of 40 Ahrs. I'm thinking that by adding a good-sized Anker unit, I can start out with a fully-charged unit, and then combine input power from the 12-volt portion when driving, regenerating power when plugged in at a campground, running the generator (sparingly) if/as needed, and then observing if solar panels will be required.
The idea here is to leave the in-place power system to run the coach as was intended when it was built, and to provide an auxiliary source for all of the electrical doo-dads that we now find ourselves helpless to live without.
The biggest stumbling block, though, is SIZE. The Anker is so huge that it has its own retractable handle and wheels for moving it around. Still working on that aspect.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Don’t get hung up on waiting for your AGMs to die before upgrading to LiON batteries. AGMs aren’t fitting your RV use case needs. My AGMs were still fine when I tossed them for my upgrade.
If you are considering a RV rental down under, a Bluetti makes even more sense, assuming it’s possible to ship them, since rental RVs are very likely NOT to have enough battery capacity for you.
Dave,
LD was a proof of concept and Alaska will be a good test case ... so far I was not spending any time on RV improvement but I am realizing how lucky we are to be here in this beautiful country in peace and friendly people and I do not have much desire to go out. Lets see how we feel after seven months togather in tight space :-)
Be well and I will be looking for you in Penensula .....
Judy,
These battery packs are just comodoties ... I have no name two 500 watt power packs and they have the same function as any other ones ... battery chemistry is important so is the solar pannel material (but I am not an expert here). As for bipap, it use 18 volt and I had a wire which convert 12V from coach battery to 18V, does not make sense to make the two changes and wate in between. Bipap pressure make some differnce but real deal breaker is humedifier .... my 500W did not last for more then few hours when I keep the same settings when I am at home or when we have shore power. Beside bipap I was very surprised that 95% of the campground from Glacier National park till we go to Palmer Alaska do not have shore power. Our AGM are two years old and not sure how much I can trust them and beside Bipap I was also looking for some assurance that we will not suck for basic needs.
Nice to hear from you after a long time. Hope you are doing well and start travelling.
Regards,
"I would recommend the Bluetti as it has better chemistry and doodads. "
I have had a small Bluetti for a bit over a year now and find it quite useful for my 300-watt rice cooker, and my 45-watt Hot Logic. This may not be usable for a CPAP machine, but it certainly has filled the bill for what I needed it for.
We didn't get a chance to try it out before he passed away, but we had acquired a 12-volt cable for my husband's CPAP machine. In use with a stand-alone battery, power usage will likely be less by plugging in a 12-volt appliance rather than utilizing the conversion feature to take it to 110.
When deciding how to beef up my "power plant", I am looking hard at a high-capacity Anker unit.
Anker Portable Power Station Expansion Battery 2048Wh - Anker US (https://www.anker.com/products/a1780)
It has two particularly nice features which allow a 30 amp connection, as well as expansion modules.
When stacked up against the "features" of a fuel-using generator, it has great appeal. But there are also many other considerations that tip the balance one way - and then the other - depending on the intended usage, and circumstances available for recharging with various methods.
If a generator is already in place, it could be utilized to recharge the Anker when it is propitious to run the generator, and then utilizing the "quiet power" of the Anker when it is "Quiet Time".
If solar panels are in place on the roof, having them charge the Anker during times when there is an abundance of rays would extend your ability to use power at night.
The battery on my Pleasure-Way is an 80-Ahr AGM, for a paltry run time of 40 Ahrs. I'm thinking that by adding a good-sized Anker unit, I can start out with a fully-charged unit, and then combine input power from the 12-volt portion when driving, regenerating power when plugged in at a campground, running the generator (sparingly) if/as needed, and then observing if solar panels will be required.
The idea here is to leave the in-place power system to run the coach as was intended when it was built, and to provide an auxiliary source for all of the electrical doo-dads that we now find ourselves helpless to live without.
The biggest stumbling block, though, is SIZE. The Anker is so huge that it has its own retractable handle and wheels for moving it around. Still working on that aspect.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Muhammad,
Glad you’re ordering a more user friendly portable battery system, it should take care of your needs.
I’m not sure a portable solar panel makes all that much sense on your upcoming Alaska trip. I’m expecting half the days to be rainy in Alaska, doesn’t mean it will, but in all the trip reports I’ve read, it’s rains a lot.
How many stay put days will you have vs travel days?
On travel days you won’t have much time to do solar charging Yes, there will be sunlight much later the further you travel north, but there are still only so many peak charging hours. So it’s only useful on stay put days.
By hooking up your FFpower inputs to both your 12V outlet and AC for charging, you should get enough recharge on travel days to top it off, and you can recharge on stay put days from either your generator or electrical hookups (if available).
I find portable solar panels to be great if you are sitting for a few days or more, but not worth the effort if you are on the go frequently. But YMMV.
I know what you mean about proof of concept trips, my nine weeks out on the road last summer was both a shakedown/upgrade trip, as well as do I really enjoy being out on the road for months at a time evaluation. All getting ready for a much longer Alaska trip this summer. I hear ya on the close quarters part, my trip this summer was originally solo, but my wife decided a month ago to finally retire and join me on the trip. Which I love, but I have concerns as she has never spent more than five consecutive nights in the RV, and never boondocking. :o
Hope to run into you sometime this summer!
Dave valid points .... As I mentioned I do have two 500W battery pack and 100W folding pannels and aware of the headache of setup and moving the pannel with the shadow and keep an eye on the weather.
We will go fast till Glacier NP but driving day is not more than 150 miles. At Glacier NP we will slow down (when shore power will not be present). Will pick speed after Jasper and will slow down again at Palmer. After Fair Banks (we will be making a closkwise circle in penensula) we goto Dalton or not or if we go how much we can take the risk but after Fair Banks it will be fast coming back till we reach Ontario province and then we will take 3-4 weeks to enjoy Beautiful Canadian Provisional Parks and enjoy fall folliage (not sure how much WoW factor will be left after Banff and Alaska).
Alternator in new Chasis is pretty powerful (I will say it create same amount of current as our generator) but perhaps converter is the weakest link. When we drive the truck with in few hours house battery is full (to begin with I rarely see it below 85%,, only real power usage is watching Youtube or Netflix for couple of hours) and we can start charging other batteries with the cigrate lighter all over the coach. This time around I got 400W solar pannel with relatively high voltage which will reduce the waste and hope it will help as well. We can do so much working with the unknowns and that is the reason I am getting advice here ..... and part of unknown is also keeping us sharp ;-)
We are blessed that our spouses are able to travel with us ..... we continue to bicker (according to our kids) but it is part of the fun. My wife is also an engineer and when push comes she is not shy rolling sleeves. She got me out of the bed after 7 years :-)
Here's a suggestion about your BiPAP or CPAP: try using it with water in the reservoir, but with the humidifier (heater) turned off. You'll still get some humidification due to evaporation, but power consumption will be greatly reduced. This might be a workable compromise solution.
Andy, thanks and will give it a shot.
Inclosed is an image of me testing my Jacerky hookup as an external power source. It worked. I could have used the Bluetti also but my Jacerky was just at hand. I have two 100 solar panels in parallel that I use to charge the solar generators. We use them mainly for cooking with our electrical appliances i.e. coffee pots, frying pan, and pressure cookers. Oh and also charging out assorted electronic gear. Bluetti has a wireless charging spot.
glen
Mentioned before but we run a hybrid or dual battery system-225AH of FLA and 400AH of lithium. They are in parallel and controlled by a marine battery switch. The FLA interfaces with alternator and starts the generator. The lithium is charged by lithium AC chargers powered by the generator and can charge the FLA with generator off. We have a 1500 watt full house inverter integrated with a second transfer switch on the generator line. Two hundred watts of solar can charge either system.
The coach is setup for sitting not traveling therefore no need to charge the lithium from the alternator. Lithium charges at 100+ amps so generator runs are brief.
A major advantage is we can start the generator without knocking Starlink and all other electronics offline. It took a lot of effort but works very, very well.
I am very pleased with the performance of the Bluetti AC 200P that I have been using for the past year. It is the "swiss army knife"(just my opinion) of portable generators with its extensive energy input and output capabilities. I use it for charging all of my delicate electronics and direct connect to my 30 amp service so I can run the microwave and coffee maker when no shore power available. The only caveat I will mention is that the beefy inverter draws approx. 24 watts when in use so the unit may not be efficient for a continuous 120 volt connection. I turn the inverter off when I am not using 120 volt power. All of the USB A/C and fast charge C ports run off the 12 volt side so electronics charging is very efficient and the two induction charging pads on top of the unit reduce the need for connecting cords. I see on the Bluetti site that it is currently on sale for the $1300 which makes it a great buy!
Matt
Odd, we run TWO CPAPs, wo humidifier, powered by two led acid batteries and the batteries never dip below 80%.
Note our devices are 12v. If yours is not, maybe think about getting one?
I wrote about in 2016.
The Lazy Daze Companion: CPAP (https://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/search/label/CPAP)
Humedifier is the killer for the battery. I do turn off the humedifier when in RV ... always have sinus issues and humedifier will improve the lifestyle. Reading two possible solutions here and am thankful for input .....
Odd, we run TWO CPAPs, wo humidifier, powered by two led acid batteries and the batteries never dip below 80%.
Note our devices are 12v. If yours is not, maybe think about getting one?
I wrote about in 2016.
The Lazy Daze Companion: CPAP (https://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/search/label/CPAP)
100 amp charger !!! I thought this will not work with build in fuse protection.
So when generator is running, you can withdraw 100amp from any of coach 120V socket? non of AC fuse trip? You are withdrawing 12000W. What is our generator capacity?
Thanks and I am interested in your system and a rough hand drawn circuit diagram will be very beneficial.
Mentioned before but we run a hybrid or dual battery system-225AH of FLA and 400AH of lithium. They are in parallel and controlled by a marine battery switch. The FLA interfaces with alternator and starts the generator. The lithium is charged by lithium AC chargers powered by the generator and can charge the FLA with generator off. We have a 1500 watt full house inverter integrated with a second transfer switch on the generator line. Two hundred watts of solar can charge either system.
The coach is setup for sitting not traveling therefore no need to charge the lithium from the alternator. Lithium charges at 100+ amps so generator runs are brief.
A major advantage is we can start the generator without knocking Starlink and all other electronics offline. It took a lot of effort but works very, very well.
That is 100 amps of 12 volt power to the lithium batteries which would be 1200 watts from 120 volt powered chargers for lithium batteries. The 4kw generator provides the AC power. There is also a 40 amp FLA charger.
A 30 amp DC to DC charger is used to charge the FLA from the lithium battery. Very convenient as you can silently top off the FLA over many hours and recharge the lithium in a few minutes.
My goal is to provide 200 amps of 12 volt (14.3 volt) charging power. Smart battery chargers in parallel are not additive so I am still working on that. I have two 60 amp and one 80 amp charger.
I never drew a schematic of the system but this is a link to the thread we wrote while developing it. The lithium bank consists of two banks of two 100AH lithium batteries. Each bank has it’s own battery monitor and a 200amp circuit breaker.
2003 Roadtrek hybrid battery system - Class B Forums (https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f23/2003-roadtrek-hybrid-battery-system-8526.html)
I have both a Roadtrek and a Lazy Daze. The Lazy Daze has 400AH of lithium. The Roadtrek has 100AH of lithium.
The lithium chargers are connected directly to the generator through on/off switches. As wired shore power cannot power the lithium chargers. I did add a dedicated shore power input plug for them. Rarely have a use for it.
Advantages are the FLA, which can handle freezing temps, are in their original tray. Lithiums are inside and warm. I am usually in 30F night time temperatures.
Odd, we run TWO CPAPs, wo humidifier, powered by two led acid batteries and the batteries never dip below 80%.
Note our devices are 12v. If yours is not, maybe think about getting one?
BiPAPs consume more power than CPAPs, even without the humidifier. And ones for travel are few if any.
That is 100 amps of 12 volt power to the lithium batteries which would be 1200 watts from 120 volt powered chargers for lithium batteries. The 4kw generator provides the AC power. There is also a 40 amp FLA charger.
A 30 amp DC to DC charger is used to charge the FLA from the lithium battery. Very convenient as you can silently top off the FLA over many hours and recharge the lithium in a few minutes.
My goal is to provide 200 amps of 12 volt (14.3 volt) charging power. Smart battery chargers in parallel are not additive so I am still working on that. I have two 60 amp and one 80 amp charger.
I never drew a schematic of the system but this is a link to the thread we wrote while developing it. The lithium bank consists of two banks of two 100AH lithium batteries. Each bank has it’s own battery monitor and a 200amp circuit breaker.
2003 Roadtrek hybrid battery system - Class B Forums (https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f23/2003-roadtrek-hybrid-battery-system-8526.html)
I have both a Roadtrek and a Lazy Daze. The Lazy Daze has 400AH of lithium. The Roadtrek has 100AH of lithium.
The lithium chargers are connected directly to the generator through on/off switches. As wired shore power cannot power the lithium chargers. I did add a dedicated shore power input plug for them. Rarely have a use for it.
Advantages are the FLA, which can handle freezing temps, are in their original tray. Lithiums are inside and warm. I am usually in 30F night time temperatures.
Thanks you very much, did not realized you are putting 100 amp to 12V battery and not taking 100 amp from A/C system. Now it make sense. Fortunately now we can buy 400 amp LifoPO battery around $1K, affordable both on pocket and on space. Let me diggest bit more of your message before I start executing. After reading responses yesterday, I took briefcase solar out of my equation, it is not practical, I will assume I will have shore power or generator till I am able to get perminant solution of more solar and replace agm batteries, whenever it may be. My wife counted the number of consecutive days without shore power and both of us were not very comfortable. I keep telling her that we do have generator and not to worry but I was not comfortable using generator in a nice quite environment. Thanks again ... If you post the link of dc to dc charger and lifo charger you are using it will save me some time otherwise I can research and use amazon ranking ....
Why you cannot use the AC sockets to connect battery charger and charge your Lithium battery? Is converter the bottleneck? If yes, can I take a low amp charger and save labour of connecting directly to the generator? What is converter capacity?
Thanks again
The links for all the parts are hidden in the thread.
This is the 50amp charger. Amazon sells the 30 amp model. It doesn’t show on a DC to DC charger search maybe because they haven’t paid anybody off. It is designed for a sailboat and includes an MPPT solar controller with automatic switching between solar and alternator.
Search for Kisae on DonRowe.com or Amazon.
Kisae DMT1230 or DMT1250
KISAE DMT1230 Abso 30A DC-DC Battery Charger | DonRowe.com (https://www.donrowe.com/KISAE-DMT1230-Abso-30A-DC-DC-Battery-Charger-p/dmt1230.htm)
KISAE DMT1250 Abso 50A DC-DC Battery Charger | DonRowe.com (https://www.donrowe.com/KISAE-DMT1250-Abso-50A-DC-DC-Battery-Charger-p/dmt1250.htm)
It is excellent, very programmable, and highly recommended. A few in the RV world have found it but not many. I did see one in the display case of a solar installer in Quartzsite.
You been very helpful. Thanks.
I will read the thread you documented your work and perhaps answer is there but I am stuck at the following words from your original message here "The lithium chargers are connected directly to the generator through on/off switches. As wired shore power cannot power the lithium chargers." Can you please explain why lithium charger cannot be connected to AC sockets in the RV when generator is running?
Thanks
The links for all the parts are hidden in the thread.
This is the 50amp charger. Amazon sells the 30 amp model. It doesn’t show on a DC to DC charger search maybe because they haven’t paid anybody off. It is designed for a sailboat and includes an MPPT solar controller with automatic switching between solar and alternator.
Search for Kisae on DonRowe.com or Amazon.
Kisae DMT1230 or DMT1250
KISAE DMT1230 Abso 30A DC-DC Battery Charger | DonRowe.com (https://www.donrowe.com/KISAE-DMT1230-Abso-30A-DC-DC-Battery-Charger-p/dmt1230.htm)
KISAE DMT1250 Abso 50A DC-DC Battery Charger | DonRowe.com (https://www.donrowe.com/KISAE-DMT1250-Abso-50A-DC-DC-Battery-Charger-p/dmt1250.htm)
It is excellent, very programmable, and highly recommended. A few in the RV world have found it but not many. I did see one in the display case of a solar installer in Quartzsite.
Why you cannot use the AC sockets to connect battery charger and charge your Lithium battery? Is converter the bottleneck? If yes, can I take a low amp charger and save labour of connecting directly to the generator? What is converter capacity?
On a Rear Bath the generator line before the Automatic Transfer Switch is available under the forward dinette seat. The ATS is on the other side of the coach behind the power panel. There really is no need but if I want to I can lift the dinette seat and plug in an extension cord from an AC outlet to the lithium chargers. I have only needed to do that once.
The converter is 55 amps. I usually have it’s circuit breaker off as I have a Xantrex 40 amp FLA charger wired in also before the transfer switch. We are rarely on shore power but if I am I turn the coach to FLA power, turn on the converter and turn all other chargers off.
On the Roadtrek we have a Kisae 50 amp charger throttled to 40 amp to charge the lithium battery from the alternator.
Starting the generator without knocking everything offline is a major advantage. Total electrical system redundancy is nice. In the Roadtrek the FLA battery failed on a very cold night. We just flipped the switch to lithium and went back to sleep. Picked up a new FLA the next day and all was well.
I am not smart but am getting it slowly .... following is my understanding. Thanks for time to write up your experience. Unfortunately it will be difficult to buy parts while on the road but am interested in setting up this system up and get it going. This will also give me some insight to motorhome electrical systems ....
1) No need to have access to generator location or messing up generator wiring, I can simply use the AC socket in the coach to charge Lithium battery when generator is running.
2) I can also use the power from the alternator when RV is moving. Easiest way is to put DC to DC charger between coach battery and Lithium battery. I never used DC to DC charger before but guess there would be a switch or some other mechanism to direct the charger about current direction. I can use the same DC to DC charger set up to top of coach battery if I am sitting on a place for long period of time and solar is not able to keeping up with the usage.
Edit: What wire size do I need for 60 amp, say going for 15 ft? thx .... this will be the wire from house/lithium battery to dc-dc charger. Guess I will need a switch and a fuse as well, any link will help. Ultimately I will need to attach inverter to the battery but that will wait, for now we do not have any significant 120V applience except for built in microwave which I have no desire to rewire.
On a Rear Bath the generator line before the Automatic Transfer Switch is available under the forward dinette seat. The ATS is on the other side of the coach behind the power panel. There really is no need but if I want to I can lift the dinette seat and plug in an extension cord from an AC outlet to the lithium chargers. I have only needed to do that once.
The converter is 55 amps. I usually have it’s circuit breaker off as I have a Xantrex 40 amp FLA charger wired in also before the transfer switch. We are rarely on shore power but if I am I turn the coach to FLA power, turn on the converter and turn all other chargers off.
On the Roadtrek we have a Kisae 50 amp charger throttled to 40 amp to charge the lithium battery from the alternator.
Starting the generator without knocking everything offline is a major advantage. Total electrical system redundancy is nice. In the Roadtrek the FLA battery failed on a very cold night. We just flipped the switch to lithium and went back to sleep. Picked up a new FLA the next day and all was well.
Edit: What wire size do I need for 60 amp, say going for 15 ft? thx .... this will be the wire from house/lithium battery to dc-dc charger. Guess I will need a switch and a fuse as well, any link will help. Ultimately I will need to attach inverter to the battery but that will wait, for now we do not have any significant 120V appliance except for built in microwave which I have no desire to rewire.
I used 6ga for most everything. Installing the 1500 watt inverter I used 4ga. Welding cable with it’s flexibility was important.
I have three chargers, two 60 amp and one 80 amp. The wiring is in parallel so it isn’t really 6ga. The intention is to install two 100 amp dumb chargers in parallel and see how they do. The generator should handle 2900 watts.
The charger compartment requires ventilation. The fans are on when AC is powering the chargers. The Kisae install manual requires a 30 amp fuse or circuit breaker. We could never get a 30 amp, or 50 amp circuit breaker not to blow, a 100 amp breaker finally worked. Don’t know why. There must be some sort of transient that pops the breaker. We never put a scope on it to understand it.
Thanks a lot. I also watched couple of videos on YouTube on DC to DC charging and wiring .. understood more now and have more appretiation of your work.
I will be more conservative and put a smart/3 stage charger between coach battery and lithium and will put some fuse in series. Hoping that charger will have on/off button. This will be charging mechanism when motorhome is in motion.
As for charging from stationary/generator, I will take easy way out and use one of the AC socket to plug the charger. Battery I am eying come with built in converter and charging cable and if I get some other battery I will get appropriate charger which should go with any built in BMS. Last thing I want to do is to touch generator wiring, enough on the plate right now.
I am looking at this as temp solution but if it works out perhaps this will last little longer.
Be well and thanks again
Hi Harry; " never got a 30 amp, or 50 amp circuit breaker not to blow, a 100 amp breaker finally worked. " I guessing that you are talking about the primary 110 VAC inputs to the chargers. Inrush current to the input capacitors simultaneously would cause the breakers to 'pop'. They have bleeder resistors for safety, since otherwise they could remain 'lethal' for some unsuspecting person for a long time. These chargers use high frequency, about 100 khz., so called 'switchers' to convert the power to about 20 VAC through small high frequency transformers. Too much iron otherwise. A longer delay of the 30A breaker should solve that problem by reducing the inrush current sensitivity. That part probably only lasts about a fourth of a second. RonB
Hi Harry; " never got a 30 amp, or 50 amp circuit breaker not to blow, a 100 amp breaker finally worked. " I guessing that you are talking about the primary 110 VAC inputs to the chargers. Inrush current to the input capacitors simultaneously would cause the breakers to 'pop'. They have bleeder resistors for safety, since otherwise they could remain 'lethal' for some unsuspecting person for a long time. These chargers use high frequency, about 100 khz., so called 'switchers' to convert the power to about 20 VAC through small high frequency transformers. Too much iron otherwise. A longer delay of the 30A breaker should solve that problem by reducing the inrush current sensitivity. That part probably only lasts about a fourth of a second. RonB
I expect you are on the right track but this is a DC to DC charger. The circuit breaker is on a DC line. No doubt the internal AC element has something to do with it. They are amazing devices. Programing them to do the job you want is not simple. They can be adapted to charge lithium, FLA, and AGM batteries, automatically switch between solar and alternator, and shut down when things are not correct. They include a solar MPPT charger so if you don’t need it something cheaper is probably available.
We never did try a slow blow 30 amp fuse nor did we put a scope on the line. I mention it to make it easier for others to get through the same problem.
I have three of the Kisae chargers and friends have more. No failures after 6 years. We all had the circuit breaker problem.
I would use the solar charger if I could get the solar input wiring to it. Possible but difficult to do. A battery monitor is also necessary. I use three Bogart Engineering monitors to get the information needed to make things work.
i decided to go with victron 30A dc to dc charger Amazon.com: Victron Energy DC-DC Bluetooth Charger Orion-Tr ORI 122436120... (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Orion-TR-Isolated-Charger-Supply/dp/B07ZKG396Y/ref=asc_df_B0851TPKV7/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459760966529&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1840465995399313167&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9052990&hvtargid=pla-904941176820&th=1) and hope it will integrate well with victron battery monitor I have ...
question, I think 2021 E450 alternator create 210A and if I use 50% safety margin we have about 105A left. Can I withdraw 30A without creating any problem? One of the review mentioned something about triggering low voltage alarm in the truck.
second question, I will be running the wires from battery terminal under the fridge to bedroom ... anybody see any issue or roadblocks.
i am sure i will comeback with more questions but first i will watch few more videos.
i accept getting the battery pack mentioned earlier would be much easier solution but charging it without solar or shore power would have been an issue..
thanks
i decided to go with victron 30A dc to dc charger Amazon.com: Victron Energy DC-DC Bluetooth Charger Orion-Tr ORI 122436120... (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Orion-TR-Isolated-Charger-Supply/dp/B07ZKG396Y/ref=asc_df_B0851TPKV7/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459760966529&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1840465995399313167&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9052990&hvtargid=pla-904941176820&th=1) and hope it will integrate well with victron battery monitor I have ...
question, I think 2021 E450 alternator create 210A and if I use 50% safety margin we have about 105A left. Can I withdraw 30A without creating any problem? One of the review mentioned something about triggering low voltage alarm in the truck.
second question, I will be running the wires from battery terminal under the fridge to bedroom ... anybody see any issue or roadblocks.
i am sure i will comeback with more questions but first i will watch few more videos.
i accept getting the battery pack mentioned earlier would be much easier solution but charging it without solar or shore power would have been an issue..
thanks
My guess is you could take 40 amps from the alternator with no problem. How many hours will you drive each day? A 40 amp charge rate will probably have you charged by lunchtime. Don’t forget the battery selection switch. You have to have the battery input to the power panel, the line from the FLA battery, and the line from the lithium battery through a 200 amp circuit breaker at the same location you mount the switch.
How much power do you use? When I share the Starlink with friends it has to run 24/7. We have sat TV, furnace and/or electric mattress pad along with DVD. Don’t use the phone booster much anymore. We run the generator at least an hour a day since we are not moving.
now i am going to show my ignorance but I am glad you are teaching me ....
1) Battery selection switch is to turn off the line once I stop the engine? I looked at the product I am buying and it will ditect voltage and turn off the system once engine stops. Is that not enought? I will put switch in series on negative wire based on your input
2) I am not planning to touch the power pannel, I was simply going to run a wire from negative terminal of agm battery and add switch I mentioned in (1) and a 200A fuse next to switch and continue the line to negative terminal of the new lifepo4 battery. Planning on complete the circuit by simply run the wire from lifepo4 to agm.
too simplistic ?
I have one more question and guess this will be the last one .... battery I am getting has a aviation adaptor and vendor is giving me an ac 7A charger. I am not able to find 20A charger with the aviation adaptor. Is aviation adaptor standard? And I lied, one more question can I put agm battery wires and ac charger wire in some kind of switch and select switch knob to approprite input or turn off both the input (I guess this is what you may mean for selection switch but am not sure).
I am planning to put screw them on wooden wall and take negative wire from them. Please tell me if I do need to toto fuse box and in that case it will be beyond my expertiese Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems 6006 m-Series Battery Switch ON/Off with Knob,... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BYZ9NPBQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1)
Thanks for all the help
My guess is you could take 40 amps from the alternator with no problem. How many hours will you drive each day? A 40 amp charge rate will probably have you charged by lunchtime. Don’t forget the battery selection switch. You have to have the battery input to the power panel, the line from the FLA battery, and the line from the lithium battery through a 200 amp circuit breaker at the same location you mount the switch.
How much power do you use? When I share the Starlink with friends it has to run 24/7. We have sat TV, furnace and/or electric mattress pad along with DVD. Don’t use the phone booster much anymore. We run the generator at least an hour a day since we are not moving.
as for usage .... we do not have starlink anymore but we do carry internet box from tmobile and so far it worked pretty well in US ... I guess either box has strong antenna or 5G frequecy travel longer distance. we have few other things we will like to do if power is not an issue, perhaps we can leave internet box stay on for longer, perhaps we can start using 12V heated blanket more often and who knows we can start using electtric heaters more often ... having too much energy available will not be an issue. I always wanted to have powerful PC with two screens to work on Devinci while we travel but idea never materialized due to power restrictions with additional power I can get required desktop from anywhere. As for driving, on average we drive every other day on average and try not to drive more then 150 miles on drive day but there are always exceptions ...
I will get the components which are required for dc to dc charging and I do not see any technical issue but I am not flexible and working on tight space pose challenges. First priority is to be able to charge the battery from shore power and if I can do dc to dc charge working wounderful otherwise I am not going to take any crazy risk during once in a life time travel oppertunity.
do i need anything else ? I will use one circuit breaker between agm and charger and second one between charger and lithium ....
and for battrey I am going with 12V 400Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery BMS Off-Grid Backup Power Solar W/Chagrer... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/373843763383?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e12052.m43.l1123&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=3d5d286e771f46208a4f618fa46a56d9&bu=43129856213&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20230426190919&segname=12052) comes with 5 year warrenty but not sure if seller will be around that long.
You will need a 1, 2, or both battery switch. some are larger than others. 200 amp capability will work to run the microwave or heaters.
Amazon.com : marine battery switch 2 battery (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=marine+battery+switch+2+battery&crid=339Y4UJ2DPYCA&sprefix=marine+battery+switch%2Caps%2C223&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_21)
thanks putting two of them in the list and based on what you said I also changed wire size to 6 just want to be safe.
I doubt these switches will be used to turn on or off the charger but I will use Shaikh Google to find out their use.
I did read your thread and am surprised why you had hard time getting attention .... To me this is low hanging fruit .... I think if it works out I might put an inverter as well but first thing first. Do not want to have too many variable at the same time.
Thanks again and I am sure I will come with more questions after receiving the stuff and start putting things togather hopefully sometime next week.
Even after trying to understand I do not see the reason for switch. Perhaps we have different applications .... I plan on keeping current builtin system working as it is right now. Ultimately (will be putting inverter order today perhaps install it after I am happy with dc-dc working) I will put new 2000W inverter in front of new battery and create a parallel 120V system for new luxury items like humadifier, dehumadifier, powerful PC, better display and 120V heating etc etc (just an extention cord). I do not see two batteries talking to each other except for dc-dc charging or when I use battery charger to transfer power from Lithium to AGM if need be (I know the overhead of dual conversion). In this senario, do you see any use of switch?
Thanks
You will need a 1, 2, or both battery switch. some are larger than others. 200 amp capability will work to run the microwave or heaters.
Amazon.com : marine battery switch 2 battery (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=marine+battery+switch+2+battery&crid=339Y4UJ2DPYCA&sprefix=marine+battery+switch%2Caps%2C223&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_21)
Nope
You gave me a pretty nice jump start. I have a plan and of course I will make mustakes, but nothing is broken or on a critical path, I will take time and will have have fun with this project.
Cannot thank you enough ....
Be well.
All,
I think it will be a neat system if done properly. I will come back and give my take on the system. It may be few weeks or probably after Alaska trip in Nov.
"do i need anything else ?"
I know others have said this, but it bears repeating: don't buy a hammer crimper like the one shown in your shopping cart. They don't make very good crimps and are hazardous to use. I remember Mike Sylvester--a very experienced technician--having to be taken to the emergency room after smashing his thumb while using a hammer crimper. I had bought one way back when, and immediately realized how easy it would be to do the same thing. I threw it away.
Here's a good crimper (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017S9EINA?ie=UTF8&psc=1) for up to AWG 1 cable. (It claims to work with 1/0, but I think you'd need pretty strong arms.)
Andy,
Thanks
After watching few videos yesterday morning, my shopping cart did changed a bit. I picked hammer crimper thinking it would be easy to use and videos showed it would be a challenge. I picked a hydraulic and manual crimper along with wire strippers and assorted connectors .. will check manual crimper in my order and if it is not too late I will switch it to the one you mentioned. It is redundent but I am adding two additional fuses of different amp ratings in different parts of circuit and using two different wires sizes based on amount of current in different part of the circuit.
My career did not involve making anything physical and in Bell Labs I rarely saw the final product I worked ... After retirement I picked up tools and built a cnc router. Got rid of all the tools after basement flooding while we were away for few months. I am glad slowly getting into physical building ... no matter how smaller scale it is but keeping me happily engaged
Take care,
"do i need anything else ?"
I know others have said this, but it bears repeating: don't buy a hammer crimper like the one shown in your shopping cart. They don't make very good crimps and are hazardous to use. I remember Mike Sylvester--a very experienced technician--having to be taken to the emergency room after smashing his thumb while using a hammer crimper. I had bought one way back when, and immediately realized how easy it would be to do the same thing. I threw it away.
Here's a good crimper (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017S9EINA?ie=UTF8&psc=1) for up to AWG 1 cable. (It claims to work with 1/0, but I think you'd need pretty strong arms.)
Andy,
I was able to change the order. I do keep the small attachment to Dewalt impact driver with me and it has helped me more then few times working in cramped space in motorhome. I picked tool idea it from one of your posts few years ago. If you are busy, ignore this request and I am also aware of how bad screen shots are appearing here ... If you cannot attend to this request, I will figure it out but I am interested in what other tools I will need for this project. On the road it will not be easy or possible and I might be completing the project in NJ winter ;-(
I mentioned battery I got from ebay and will not put it again. Battery was listed in Amazon for few hundred dollars more from a third party, ebay listing was directly from manufacturer (I know this can be just a small room assembly factory, but they seem to be selling few of them and have a good specaking responsive rep).
Thanks in advance
The only tool missing that I would want is a cable cutter that produces clean, straight cuts.
I have used the one shown below for many years. It will cut up to 2/0 cable.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/5620/21453059523_6b6d1d70b3_3k.jpg)
Klein Tools 63050 Cable Cutter, Heavy Duty Cutter for Aluminum, Copper, and... (https://www.amazon.com/Leverage-Communications-Klein-Tools-63050/dp/B0000302X1/ref=asc_df_B0000302X1?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80127027724147&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583726553923532&psc=1)
Larry
Thanks Larry. I was looking for something for this purpose but was not able to find the tool. Thanks.
If used carefully, will it strip a thick wire as well? if not, what do you do to strip battery or inverter wire?
Regards,
Thanks Larry. I was looking for something for this purpose but was not able to find the tool. Thanks.
If used carefully, will it strip a thick wire as well? if not, what do you do to strip battery or inverter wire?
For 10-gauge and smaller wire, I have used Klein wire strippers for strippers.
Klein Tools 11055 Wire Cutter and Wire Stripper, Stranded Wire Cutter, Solid... (https://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-Cutter-Stripper-Stranded/dp/B00080DPNQ/ref=asc_df_B00080DPNQ?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80127027724147&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583726553755837&psc=1)
For bigger cables, a utility knife is used to carefully cut the insulation without cutting the wire. I'm sure commercial strippers for large cables are available.
Larry
Thanks Larry. This tool also helped me removing top cover as well.
come back with one more question ....
do you know what is the name of the socket/interface (not the one which look like cigrate lighter) on this tool? I do have the charger and am eager to use newly acquired tools to put this kind of socket on the wall and charge/trickle charge home battery with the new Lithium battery. Amazon.com: NOCO GC004 X-Connect 10-Foot Extension Cable Accessory Genius... (https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GC004-10-Extension-Cable/dp/B004LWV0GQ/ref=pd_bxgy_vft_high_img_sccl_1/144-8088286-2976513?pd_rd_w=RuTMK&content-id=amzn1.sym.26a5c67f-1a30-486b-bb90-b523ad38d5a0&pf_rd_p=26a5c67f-1a30-486b-bb90-b523ad38d5a0&pf_rd_r=4ZQF5B0K8FBK87326GAN&pd_rd_wg=xUljf&pd_rd_r=b19a9361-a383-476d-8937-3402c205b42a&pd_rd_i=B004LWV0GQ&psc=1)
Lithium battery will be delivere today but I did install the dc-dc charger along with fuse breaker and switch. I checked output voltage in differnt scenario and charger appear to be working as advertised. I do have to set up the voltage where charger think engine is on and voltage when charger think engine is off and guess I will have this info after one day of driving the motorhome :-)
Installation was pretty straight forward and tools Larry and Andy suggested helped and more than tools the idea from a gentleman whos name I do not have (am close but not claiming the victory before completing the connection to battery and inverter) .... and I got couple of more tools to have incentive to do more work on my own in future. So far it took only few hours of work but I was lying on my back most of the time while working and I must agree each and each muscle of my body is aching ..... but am happy to be able to do something on my own. Fuse breaker is in the same cabinet where the battery is and switch and dc to dc are outside the wall (glued a thicker scrap board to have more strength). Behind the driver/passenger seat where elevation change there is kind of a duct below the carpet which was perfect to fish the wire from one side to the other.
dc to dc charger wire connection is different. first i tried to just put in the wires in there but wires stranded and I knew it is just matter of time for a short circuit plus with rv i do want to make sure things do not loose easily. I looked around and found this tool which may help CHPOWER 16-4 Square Crimping Tools, Ferrule Terminals Crimper, Ratchet Jaw... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TKDRDLZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) and did go out of my way to make sure that tool will work with the wires size I am using. I did not pay attention to the size of crimps coming with it .... and of course bigges connection was awg 7, anyways removed about half of the wire to create the connection but have ordered new size crimps and will do few reconnections once I get right size crimps.
I keep writing long stories and focus gets away from the questio; can you help me with of the name of interface at the end of this wire (not the cigrate lighter type) Amazon.com: NOCO GC004 X-Connect 10-Foot Extension Cable Accessory Genius... (https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GC004-10-Extension-Cable/dp/B004LWV0GQ/ref=pd_bxgy_vft_high_img_sccl_1/144-8088286-2976513?pd_rd_w=RuTMK&content-id=amzn1.sym.26a5c67f-1a30-486b-bb90-b523ad38d5a0&pf_rd_p=26a5c67f-1a30-486b-bb90-b523ad38d5a0&pf_rd_r=4ZQF5B0K8FBK87326GAN&pd_rd_wg=xUljf&pd_rd_r=b19a9361-a383-476d-8937-3402c205b42a&pd_rd_i=B004LWV0GQ&psc=1)
thanks for help, support and encouragements ....
can you help me with of the name of interface at the end of this wire (not the cigrate lighter type) Amazon.com: NOCO GC004 X-Connect 10-Foot Extension Cable Accessory Genius... (https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GC004-10-Extension-Cable/dp/B004LWV0GQ/ref=pd_bxgy_vft_high_img_sccl_1/144-8088286-2976513?pd_rd_w=RuTMK&content-id=amzn1.sym.26a5c67f-1a30-486b-bb90-b523ad38d5a0&pf_rd_p=26a5c67f-1a30-486b-bb90-b523ad38d5a0&pf_rd_r=4ZQF5B0K8FBK87326GAN&pd_rd_wg=xUljf&pd_rd_r=b19a9361-a383-476d-8937-3402c205b42a&pd_rd_i=B004LWV0GQ&psc=1)
Looks like it’s called X-Connect, proprietary interface by NOCO.
Since it’s a locking watertight interface, designed not to come apart easily like the 12V cigarette interface, you’re unlikely to find a socket you can install. NOCO doesn’t make a socket, which suggests that wasn’t a planned usage.
Best you could do is figure how to fabricate a socket by having the female end sticking out somewhere.
Thanks.
If I do not get any more info, I might look at other chargers with more amp and ease of use in my scenario, no need to make decision soon. Thanks to China these gadgets are very affordable.
I use a NOCO trickle charger to keep the Jeep's battery maintained when parked for longer periods. It has the same proprietary plugs, odd-looking things that are unlike any I have seen before, Dave's suggestion seems to be the best way of approaching this problem. Checking NOCO's site, I see nothing like what you want.
I would be tempted to combine the female plug and a blank wall receptacle plate, drill a hole in the cover plate the same size as the plug and glue the plug in position with a plastic epoxy.
Larry
Hi Muhammad; I suspect that those are proprietary plugs and sockets only available from Noco. You could cut one end off and use Anderson power pole connectors. They come in different current and size ranges. They are easily adapted, reconfigurable, and fixable. Not water proof, but very sturdy. I use the 50 Amp capable size with 10 ga. wire pair. https://powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpole-connectors-30amp-bonded?gclid=CjwKCAjwjMiiBhA4EiwAZe6jQ3VqH3R7RzE2RmLghdhRSX3gH17cF7OltsF_sWE6VaNxnBtD5BQvxBoChP8QAvD_BwE I have a 50 Amp plug in my refrigerator compartment for easy access. (They do have dust cap plugs) and a 50 A. resettable circuit breaker.
Another source on Amazon: Amazon.com: OMT Wire Connector 4 Pack, 50A Wire Harness Plug Kit for 6-12... (https://www.amazon.com/OrionMotorTech-Battery-Connect-Disconnect-Recovery/dp/B074J5DS33/ref=sr_1_52_sspa?crid=2NVMGXKCH2SVA&keywords=anderson+powerpole+connectors&qid=1683131209&sprefix=anderson%2Caps%2C148&sr=8-52-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTUFKU1pYOEQxU0YzJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjAxODU4MlQyR0xWREFQVFNRRyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTA0OTcwMjhVVExVSkdTTjNOVCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0Zl9uZXh0JmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==)
I can run my air compressor from my Li batteries direct, or feed power in from extra solar panels. Charge my Tracker's battery (just a battery assist).
I can crimp and solder, haven't needed a hydraulic crimper. RonB
Thanks all.
Modifying NOCO proprietary interface to be used as socket does not look very appealing. I will test the new hybrid battery system during next trip and if performance is in line with my exoectations, I will will revisit after coming back from Alaska.
Regards,
Well to be clear, you cut off the wire end that doesn't plug into the power supply, and attach those loose individual wire ends to usually ring terminals. Those ring terminals attach to the battery posts. That wire would be unplugged from the battery charger at the battery charger. I'm sure the charger can be left connected, when there is no 110 VAC to charge your batteries. The wire can be replaced for other uses of the chargers when needed. RonB
Ron,
Thanks again and appretiate ... I know you are trying to help me understand. You and many other folks on the form are very generous with your time and without you I will be jealously looking at fabilious RV life style from the other side of the fence. Thansk again. beside RV lifestyle you and lot of other folks are giving me courage to restart doing things on my own again. Although each and every muscle is complaining after last three days of work but I am very happy to be able to be able to do these projects again.
Sorry for digressing, I am already doing eactly what you mentioned. I uncrewed clamps from the charger which exposed the rings which re now perminantly attached to engine battery. Other side of the rigns is the propritary plug which I tied with the front grill with two elect ties. I hope it wiill not get loose and even worse does not get inbetwen any moving part. This is not elegant solution ....
I am done with battery project wiring and initial tests resutls are impressive but still few more tests are left and then real world experience. If everything works according to plan, I will have additional 90% of 400amp available per day (assuming I am driving daily for 10 hours which is actually not even close to reality) but assumption is that I will have enough power to use space heater (my space heater use 900 watt), I can use dehumedifier if heater is running (small dc one does not work even after changing couple of them) and sky is the limit, I can use humedifier with my bipap machine and perhaps this trip I can take coffee machie with me. Now that I know how to add battery and have tools and I actually enjoyed doing this project nobody stop me continue with bigger power bank and get rid of propane etc etc. but first thing first .... coming to the issue, I want to continue to use the Lazy Days wiring instead of having a parallel system. Easist way for me to do is to have a battery charger from newly installed inverter to coach battery (and if I want to be more efficient why not dc to dc charger). To achieve this goal I just want to turn on a switch to start charging coach batteries rather then looking for some hanging proprieter socket (and if dc to dc charger can detect low battery capacity in coach battery, energy transfer can be automatic) ...... I paid about $40 for the charger with I am using enginge battery maintainance. I wanted to use it for charging the house batteries from Lithium battery but if getting a solution is not clean then it is not worth it ...... perhaps a second dc to dc charger and when I am ready perhaps there will more intelligent systems :-)
I am a dreamer, I am not sure if this experiement will work during a long trip right now it is too good to be true .... hope this long message at least convey this message that I am not looking for just a working solution I am seeing lot of potential with DC to DC charger which can perhaps make lot of our lives easier in coming months and years ....
Only few years ago when I was looking at designing Sprinter, I was disappointed that I cannot carry enough water. At that time if I could have avoided heavy battery weight, perhaps I would be writing in different forum :-) but am glad to have Lazy Daze.
Well to be clear, you cut off the wire end that doesn't plug into the power supply, and attach those loose individual wire ends to usually ring terminals. Those ring terminals attach to the battery posts. That wire would be unplugged from the battery charger at the battery charger. I'm sure the charger can be left connected, when there is no 110 VAC to charge your batteries. The wire can be replaced for other uses of the chargers when needed. RonB
On the road and dc to dc charger did not disappoint, I realized I can chage settings to charge new battery while on shore power or even with existing solar power setup... for now simple senario of detecting engine start and stop should be enough but good to have options and will customize for our needs as we will be taking longer breaks latter during this trip .. biggest reason for bettery was to use bipap with humidifier. Plan was to use inverter with extension cord .... and now kicking by back ... wish I would have installed cigrate lighter socket as well for 12 V outlet ... bipap application is 6-7 hrs per day and wastage for dc->ac->dc will be significant which could be avoided with 12V outlet ... will not drive too much to find a hardware store but keeping my eyes open ... will be stopping by Quadra factory on Monday to fix big foot leveler, if my memory is any good there is Walmart withinn walking distance.
.. bipap application is 6-7 hrs per day and wastage for dc->ac->dc will be significant which could be avoided with 12V outlet ... will not drive too much to find a hardware store but keeping my eyes open ... will be stopping by Quadra factory on Monday to fix big foot leveler, if my memory is any good there is Walmart withinn walking distance.
Buying parts on the road isn't difficult if Amazon stocks the parts, and have the parts delivered to an Amazon box near where you will be staying.
We have used this service several times while traveling.
Larry
Thanks Larry.
We are going very slow but we do move daily till we reach Glacier National Park by the end of the month. I am realizing buying with Amazon on road is getting easier but in our case old fashion brick and mortar is needed.
I am watching battery charge while Sophia is driving and during bulk chage phase battery is getting 32 amp. My bipap is 24 v (I thought it was 18 v) and take 3.75 amp. For roughly 10 hours I need 70 amp at 12 v. If I do not account for some heating and wastage two hours of driving will keep me afloat. We do have shore power at few places before we hit Hlacier NP and hope by then I will have 12 V socket. Fortunately I do have few more tools this time around.
Battery came with a cheap charger with some new type of interface (new to me). I will check, if I get 12 v at that connection I can disect charger and my extension wire :-)
Got the parts and connection is working. Forgot a get turn/off switch and a light on receptor will be perminantly night light till I put a switch :-)
Is there a way to bring the wire from back of driver seat to back? What is below the stove? Behind the propane or carbon monoxide detector?
Second question, are there 12 volt extention cord? Cigrater lighter plug at one end and receptor at the other end. Because of bathroom I have to bring lighter receptor above converter and use extention cord (if one exist)
My bipap is 24 v (I thought it was 18 v) and take 3.75 amp. For roughly 10 hours I need 70 amp at 12 v. If I do not account for some heating and wastage two hours of driving will keep me afloat. We do have shore power at few places before we hit Hlacier NP and hope by then I will have 12 V socket
Second question, are there 12 volt extention cord? Cigrater lighter plug at one end and receptor at the other end. Because of bathroom I have to bring lighter receptor above converter and use extention cord (if one exist)
Is there a way to bring the wire from back of driver seat to back? What is below the stove? Behind the propane or carbon monoxide detector?
I need to make sure I understand what you want to do.
Do you want to run the bipap on 12 volts @ 70-amps?
If so, a normal cigarette lighter plug is only made to handle 10-15-amps.
No over-the-counter cigarette lighter extension cord will have larger enough wires.
You will need to upgrade the plug to an Anderson-style plug, as Ron suggests and use heavy cable ranging from 6-gauge to 2-gauge depending on how long the wire run is.
Wire sizing. Calculate the round trip length of the wire.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VRM_ZGUKdc/ViOeH4m70tI/AAAAAAABdd8/tp6hj68cVTg/s1600/DC%2Bwire%2Bselection%2Bchart.jpg
Anderson Plugs
https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/SB50/ds-sb50.pdfhttps://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/SB120/ds-sb120.pdf
Larry
Bipap consumption is 7.5 amp at 12 V. I could have stopped here ...
Wire I got can carry 13 amp and am fine there. As for socket, not sure wattage rating for it but guess 7.5×12 wattage is not too high to worry.
In my case Bipap has time function as well. Means I do tend to forget to breath while sleeping (about 95% apnea is obstructive type, I do have something called central and is not common). Wattage I am quoting here is max need, but machine does not need this much power on constant basis.
So how can I route the wire from back of driver seat to bedroom in the gack?
"I realized I can change settings to charge new battery while on shore power or even with existing solar power setup"
I know beans about any of this, but my reasoning in favor of a stand-alone power station included its ability to be wherever I wanted to have power. In addition, there are places to plug in 110, 12-volt, and USB items to be charged or utilized. There is a 30-amp plug-in as well, but a unit would need to have a lot of power to run a whole motorhome for very long, I would think.
It was hard for me to come to terms with just how little actual power is available in a stand-alone battery that is not being continuously, or at least routinely, recharged by some means. And the output from a generator is vastly underrated.
When the numbers are examined, a solar panel system of 200 to 400 watts is about normal. A generator in a small motorhome like my Pleasure-Way provides 2800 watts; most larger motorhomes have a 4000-watt generator; indeed, when we had a 40-foot diesel pusher, the generator powered up at 7500 watts. A fuel-dependent generator is not dependent on the time of day, or condition of the sky for refilling itself. But it does use gasoline; some others use propane. So there is always a need for some source for refueling the battery power system.
I've heard that there "just ain't no free lunch".
Virtual hugs,
Judie
I looked at built in power stations and they would not solved my issues. Initially i bought two systems and they travelling me and may be used durung the trip. Perhaps i can put them on bicycle to extend the range. There is a place for readymade systems but we do go out for longer trips and getting more daring with each trip and more and more I am finding out shore power to be a luxury. I am getting lot of messages from my reservations about renovation, who knows how much money government is spending upgrading infrastructure and perhaps future may be different.
Let say I get 1000 watt or even 2000 watt system ... 2000 watt system will give me 2000/12 less than 200 amp. Battery I got is 400 amp. Creating a system took physical tool but now I can twick, I can simply bypass inverter to save conversion energy. I am not scared of making more holes or snake wires, etc. etc. I gaveup getting competent help and atheist on coach side I will make mistake but atheist I started taking charge.
Then the elephant in the room ... as soon as we reach Glacier national park we rarely get shore power. Charging portable system will be difficult .. now just hour of driving put 30 amp or 360 watts and according to my calculation three hours of driving should top off battery if I use it only for bipap. We used it for heater for early am as well.
My comment you quoted was the power of intelligence built in dc to dc charger. I know after few experimentation I will not touch them infact I might use one more but going slow ...
Then there is future expansion... I got cheap chinease battery. Let say if I am fortunate and battery last for a year by that time hope lighter technology will be available. For AGM I am carrying are atleat 200 pounds, sooner or latter they need to be changed and now I do have the knowhow on what need to be done.
Coming back to Portable system, it is easy solution and there are few system which are expendable as well but I think I did fine. Did I say I can charge agm from lithium if need be ... I doubt I will use lithium for this purpose there are enough applications for lithium.
For roughly 10 hours I need 70 amp at 12 v.
Bipap consumption is 7.5 amp at 12 V.
So how can I route the wire from the back of the driver's seat to the bedroom in the gack?
There is a big difference between 70-amps and 7.5-amps.
For 75-amp/hours a night, a good solar array can easily handle that, something to think about for future upgrades, assuming you keep your LD that long.
You could run the wire through the lower, driver-side cabinets, around the water tank, and under the stove into the corner cabinet.
Next run the wire through the bathroom wall, under the raised toilet. The shower is the tough one but I think you can get under it, it was possible in older MBs but it has been a long time since I did one of these.
Once under the shower, you can bring the wire out at the front of the couch or run through the exterior cargo compartment and have the wire exit at the rear of the interior.
It can be done but is a big job and requires quite a bit of disassembly and drilling to provide a hidden pathway for the wire.
It also requires crawling into cabinets and other tight spots, hard on the body, and the main reason why I quit working on LDs.
Larry
Larry,
Thanks.
I do read and reread the message for clarity before pressing the post and I should work harder to clarify my messages. It is not an excuse but after stroke I do realize I do miss words in my sentences which sometime change the meaning. Fortunately, I am retired now, and my messages do not make Wallstreet headlines :-) I mentioned 7.5 amp and then jumped to 70 amp in 10 hours. Few extra words would have conved the message more clearly.
Thanks for the information. I asked my wife to check if wires or socket was warm early in the morning which she forgot but I will be surprised if there is any issue here ... As for energy saving using DC directly I realized that battery moved out of the bulk to float mode within few minutes of driving (compared to 2+ hrs of driving using inverter). I will follow your directions and simply bring the wire till converter and put recepter next to the converter. I will look for dc extention chord in next oppertunity and in the worst case I do have additional wire and crimps to extend the reach of bipap dc to dc brick extention. Not planning on unnecessary risk of going under the shower.
As for keeping Lazy Daze, it was proof of concept and an experiment for us. We were getting tiered of cruising. Alaska trip will either take us to next level or break us ... I was (am still to some extent) interested in Mitsubishi truck cabover expedition vehicle. Both me and Sophia do not have any terminal sickness (except for being humans :-)) and my 64th birthday is still couple of months away. We are getting very found of LazyDaze and spending couple of hours with all of my tools out making connections was fun and healthy. Putting in additional battery also took me to past ... We will continue with road trips and of course overseas road trips are on the plate but I think our neighbourhood in US and Canada has lot to offer and will keep us busy for rest of our lives. Staying in US and Canada, I do not see any thing better then Lazy Daze. May be Coach House but differential do not justify making a switch now. Tiger was another option but sleeping arrangement is not for us .... enjoying LazyDaze today and as for tomorrow who knows ...
Be well ... you been a source of knowledge and are generous with your time. May God bless you and your family with rest of other contributors on this forum.
Regards
Hi,
Last question before we can close the topic. I took Larry's advice and taking two drawers out which showed a clear path below stove and sink. I am satisfied for now with the results (there is more potential for future work and I may reopen this topic if need be). To hide wire connections between receptor and wire from battery I had to make bigger holes to push crimps inside the cabin. **Is there any thing I can do to hide these bigger openings. ** Not an emergency but I am sure sooner I hide this issue better off I will be :-) I do not have heat shrinks or wraps (not sure correct terminology) with me and could not find them in walmart and ended up using electrical tapes at every connections and keep checking short circuit at each step ...
I used simple wire to extend bipap 12 v to 24 v converter extend. Seems to be working but not sure why vendor used coaxel cable. Will be looking for any side effects of using simple wire with coaxal wire to transfer the current.
Not sure I ever read any discussion about LazyDaze drawer on the forum. Taking drawer and putting them back correctly itself was a task but now I know for future.
Want to thank team for this project. I used all the knowledge you shared and took all the tools you suggested and used most of them multiple time. Hope I will not have to open the tool box anytime soon.
Regards
Tried to add two pictures in last message ... trying again with wifi box on ...
And of course tmobile home internet did not disappoint...
Update....and closure
I will be honest, I was nurvous making any major change close to a long trip but did not see another option when Sophia pointed out that we will be out of shore power for 30+ consecutive days...
Upgrade worked as expected. I was using my bipap with humedifier and tube heating as I do at home without any issue at all. I also tested and I could have used air heater for 5 hrs continously if needed be and fortunately need did not arise.
As for DC to DC charger, it start the current flow from house AGM battery if it detect house battery has 14+ (it may be 13V, senior moment). When truck starts, alternator do create correct voltage and new battery start charging. I also notice that when truck is parked and solar completely charge the the house battery, volt start going up which trigger DC to DC charger. Of course voltage goes down with in few seconds if 30amp start transferring but in few hours new battery do get enough juice. This is logical behavior but I am not experienced and was plesently surprised.
With this, I will like to close this thread with a thank you note to everybody helped me with how to do this project, especially gentleman who has similar setup and shared detail information, components required, tools, wiring route and most importantly encouragement. I can find out if I have dual alternator and put parallel DC to DC charger but for my need current set up is good enough. Cheap Chinese battery also hold up pretty well.
Regards,