OK, Folks...Please put your thinking hats on...
My 2007 26 MB (with Banks), over the past week, began intermittently not starting. Sometimes it would fire right up without any problems, sometimes it would start up only after 2 or 3 turns of the key, and just today, I can't get it to start at all. I can still hear the solednoid click and the dashboard lights come on after turning the key, but that's all that happens. On 3 or 4 occasions over the past week, when I couldn't get it started, I would turn on the generator, and that seemed to get it started right away. Today, it's not starting no matter how many times I turn the key, and the generator isn't helping me.
I did put in a new battery, because it was quite old (8-9 years) and only putting out 475 of the 650 CCA it was rated for; however, the problem still persists. I've looked at the connections on the top of the battery, and they are clean and tight.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Eric
You can check out my Banks saga here (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=34389.0).
It was a faulty Banks Module in my case. In post #22 I recount my visit to Banks to fix the problem.
You can check out my Banks saga here (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=34389.0).
It was a faulty Banks Module in my case. In post #22 I recount my visit to Banks to fix the problem.
Yes...I saw your thread before I posted, but I don't have any problem with losing power once started. In fact, I drove from Sedona, AZ to home in San Diego without issue once started. Thank you, though...I appreciate your response.
Eric, if I understand your problem, it seems as if the starter is not cranking the engine at all. Is that correct?
I think the first step is to find out if the new battery has the necessary voltage by checking the volts with a multimeter. It is possible that the new battery is defective OR that you have something (like the lights ) tuned on that has been drawing down the engine's battery. A fresh and fully charged battery should read around 12.65 volts or more.
If the battery is fully charged, I would make sure that I have good connections with the battery cables and then the cable to the starter.
I would probably try jump starting from another vehicle or a portable jumper pack.
If I am misunderstanding your post and the engine is actually cranking but not starting,, you may have a bad fuel pump. I have found over the years that some folks describe hard starting situations with different terminology.
Hopefully, you just got a bad battery. Good luck and please post a follow up with how the problem was resolved.
Steve K
Yes...I saw your thread before I posted, but I don't have any problem with losing power once started. In fact, I drove from Sedona, AZ to home in San Diego without issue once started. Thank you, though...I appreciate your response.
Check my thread here (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=34147.msg208308#msg208308).
My problems began with starting issues and progressed to losing power. You could still have a loose or defective module.
Hi,
I have a 2007 , 31 foot LD which has a Banks system. I had the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS you have, It was the fuel pump.
Bob Wilson
Hi,
I have a 2007 , 31 foot LD which has a Banks system. I had the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS you have, It was the fuel pump.
Bob Wilson
I went on YouTube and found reports of people having issues with loose gear selector rods, and the vehicle wouldn't start because the vehicle wasn't registering as being in Park. So, I put it into Neutral, and it started right up (repeatedly twice more as well). I then left it off for an hour, and went back. Now, it won't start in Park or Neutral. Did you have this kind of intermittent failure, and when it works, it fired right up and runs just fine for as long as I keep the engine on? I'm very naive with respect to auto mechanics, but it seems that, if the issue was a bad fuel pump, the issue wouldn't be intermittent.
My hunch is that it's more electrical, and possibly a bad connection somewhere. I know where the starter solenoid is and made sure those connections are clean and tight. I don't actually know where the starter itself is...Can anyone tell me? (Reminder: 2007 E450).
Thank you,
Eric
Check my thread here (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=34147.msg208308#msg208308).
My problems began with starting issues and progressed to losing power. You could still have a loose or defective module.
Thank you for your comment; however, it doesn't seem like a bad PCM module would cause intermittent issues.
Eric, if I understand your problem, it seems as if the starter is not cranking the engine at all. Is that correct?
I think the first step is to find out if the new battery has the necessary voltage by checking the volts with a multimeter. It is possible that the new battery is defective OR that you have something (like the lights ) tuned on that has been drawing down the engine's battery. A fresh and fully charged battery should read around 12.65 volts or more.
If the battery is fully charged, I would make sure that I have good connections with the battery cables and then the cable to the starter.
I would probably try jump starting from another vehicle or a portable jumper pack.
If I am misunderstanding your post and the engine is actually cranking but not starting,, you may have a bad fuel pump. I have found over the years that some folks describe hard starting situations with different terminology.
Hopefully, you just got a bad battery. Good luck and please post a follow up with how the problem was resolved.
Steve K
Hi Steve. Thanks for your response.
To answer your questions: Correct, the starter doesn't crank at all when it doesn't start. The problem is intermittent, though, and when it works, it cranks and starts perfectly. I don't think the battery is the issue either. Although I haven't checked the voltage on the new battery, it acts exactly the same as the old battery with respect to this problem (ie. starts up immediately or not at all). I haven't tried jump starting from another vehicle, but I have tried to use the generator and it doesn't help (although it seemed to a couple of times when I first started having this problem with the old battery).
Yes, I'll definitely post the resolution once discovered.
For now, I'm praying I don't need to tow the RV anywhere. If anyone knows a mobile mechanic somewhat close to Carlsbad, CA, I'd certainly appreciate the referral.
Thank you,
Eric
Hi Eric; Sure sounds like the starter motor to me. A voltmeter on the heavy duty wire going to the starter should have 12 VDC. on it all of the time. The 'solenoid' is energized to start the vehicle. It really is just a heavy duty relay, that connects the 12V to the starter motor. You should be able to hear that actuate when you try to start the engine. Even if the starter motor doesn't work. The solenoid is attached to the starter motor.
It is good that everything else works when it does(did) start. Pretty much points to the starter. The "starter" includes the solenoid, brushes, Bendix assembly, and the actual motor. Usually the entire assembly gets replaced as a unit. The old 'core' goes to a rebuilder to be refurbished and tested. Rock Auto has a Ford Motocraft for $177. The core return $35 might pay for shipping. Others are less at $60 to $100. 2007 FORD E-450 6.8L V10 Starter Motor | RockAuto (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2007,e-450,6.8l+v10,1434711,electrical,starter+motor,4152)
The starter is under, at the side of the engine, usually the passenger side at the back near the flywheel and transmission. YouTube will help on that. Used to be I could change it out in the parking lot. My Lexus had a solenoid fail. $4200 was a bargain. (almost have to pull the engine!) RonB
I went on YouTube and found reports of people having issues with loose gear selector rods, and the vehicle wouldn't start because the vehicle wasn't registering as being in Park. So, I put it into Neutral, and it started right up (repeatedly twice more as well). I then left it off for an hour, and went back. Now, it won't start in Park or Neutral.
Hi Eric,
I had a similar problem, not with my LD, but with my Jeep Cherokee. The problem was no power to the starter motor but all lights, radio etc were fine. Sometimes when there was no power to the starter motor, putting it in neutral would then allow it to start. Sometimes moving the transmission shifter briskly through the gears several times would allow it to start. The problem turned out to be a faulty Transmission Position Switch (TPS) that senses what gear the transmission is in, including park and neutral. This switch was mounted on the side of the transmission and was fairly easy to replace once I knew what to look for. Fords and Jeeps are different animals but I assume they both need someway to sense when the transmission is in park or neutral in order to start the engine. Perhaps some of the experts with much more Ford experience than I can render an opinion.
- John
EDIT: Sorry, but I missed it when the OP said ”I can still hear the solednoid click”. That was not the symptom in my case and could not be the problem you are experiencing now. I hope you can find the right solution soon.
This should be a pretty standard diagnosis for a mechanic, but we are all over the place because it's not 100% clear what the symptoms are.
IF it doesn't crank, and, IF you hear the solenoid from the starter clicking, and IF the battery is fine, the starter would be my first place to look. I would be under the rig listening to the starter while someone else turns the key, and tapping on the starter to see if that does anything.
Your Car Won’t Start & You Hear a Clicking Noise | Firestone Complete Auto Care (https://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/blog/maintenance/car-wont-start-clicking-noise/)
Rich
This should be a pretty standard diagnosis for a mechanic, but we are all over the place because it's not 100% clear what the symptoms are.
IF it doesn't crank, and, IF you hear the solenoid from the starter clicking, and IF the battery is fine, the starter would be my first place to look. I would be under the rig listening to the starter while someone else turns the key, and tapping on the starter to see if that does anything.
Your Car Won’t Start & You Hear a Clicking Noise | Firestone Complete Auto Care (https://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/blog/maintenance/car-wont-start-clicking-noise/)
Rich
Hi Rich,
Yes to all of your "IF" conditions :)
I'm guessing it's the starter too. I would like to replace it myself if not too difficult, especially since it's "stuck" at my house. My first challenge is locating it though. I didn't see it the first time I looked underneath the LD, but I'll look again when I get back home in a couple of days. If anyone has pics to help, that would be great.
Thank you!
Eric
One correction. My LD model is 2007, but my chassis is 2006. The solenoid is attached to the driver-side sidewall in the engine bay, and there's no starter connected to it. I tried to follow the bigger wires from the solenoid but they dive down and out of sight. So, I haven't found the starter yet.
Hi Eric; If that solenoid looks like this: https://www.supplyhouse.com/White-Rodgers-586-108111-Solenoid-SPNO-15-VDC-Isolated-Coil-Normally-Open-Continuous-Contact-Rating-200-Amps-Inrush-600-Amps?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0eOPBhCGARIsAFIwTs4gQws6LzxHDOujEFj9i1F0ccfuzbDUgO1hi70607__L02wturKK7kaAju_EALw_wcB then that is a relay that connects the house batteries to the chassis alternator (and chassis battery) to charge the house batteries while you are driving.
This picture of a Ford starter: Ford Starter Motors - MCS Auto Factors (https://www.mcsautofactors.com/ford-starter-motors/) shows the solenoid smaller cylinder next to the starter motor larger cylinder. RonB
If not already done, I'd recommend making sure all cables involved with the starter are corrosion free, tight and in good condition, including both ends of the battery to ground and starter to ground (if the starter is not case grounded).
Art
Hi Eric; If that solenoid looks like this: https://www.supplyhouse.com/White-Rodgers-586-108111-Solenoid-SPNO-15-VDC-Isolated-Coil-Normally-Open-Continuous-Contact-Rating-200-Amps-Inrush-600-Amps?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0eOPBhCGARIsAFIwTs4gQws6LzxHDOujEFj9i1F0ccfuzbDUgO1hi70607__L02wturKK7kaAju_EALw_wcB then that is a relay that connects the house batteries to the chassis alternator (and chassis battery) to charge the house batteries while you are driving.
This picture of a Ford starter: Ford Starter Motors - MCS Auto Factors (https://www.mcsautofactors.com/ford-starter-motors/) shows the solenoid smaller cylinder next to the starter motor larger black cylinder. RonB
Oops...Yes. What I was looking at is exactly like the picture. So, now I know that was, indeed, the relay. No wonder sparks flew even though I had disconnected the negative terminal of the chassis battery. :o
I'll keep looking for the starter motor with attached solenoid.
If not already done, I'd recommend making sure all cables involved with the starter are corrosion free, tight and in good condition, including both ends of the battery to ground and starter to ground (if the starter is not case grounded).
Art
Thanks Art! Yup, I checked the connections. Wish it was just that...
This is a long shot, but a friend of mine once had a starter problem that turned out to be due to heat: the starter solenoid had gotten so hot that one of its soldered wires had lost its solder and was loose in its hole. See the "Rocky Mountain Breakdown (http://www.andybaird.com/travels/skylarking/2012/breakdown.htm)" page on my website for details and an extreme closeup photo showing the problem.
This is a long shot, but a friend of mine once had a starter problem that turned out to be due to heat: the starter solenoid had gotten so hot that one of its soldered wires had lost its solder and was loose in its hole. See the "Rocky Mountain Breakdown (http://www.andybaird.com/travels/skylarking/2012/breakdown.htm)" page on my website for details and an extreme closeup photo showing the problem.
Thank you, Andy. It will interesting to see if that is my problem too. I'll post an update once I get this resolved.
BTW...I have to admit that I spent more time looking at the picture of the pizza than the starter solenoid.
I would be not be so quick to blame the stater yet.
There are dozens of points of potential failure. After verifying the battery’s terminals and the ground connection are clean and tight, and the battery voltage is good, the starter’s operation can be verified by energizing the starter’s solenoid at the starter . I use a remote starter switch.
If the starter checks out OK, then work backwards toward the ignition switch and fuse panel, a standard trouble-shooting technique.
Larry
Have you watched this yet? May have some good clues/suggestions for your dilemma. Let us know the solution, please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnjmKxLLIkY
Thank you, Andy. It will interesting to see if that is my problem too. I'll post an update once I get this resolved.
BTW...I have to admit that I spent more time looking at the picture of the pizza than the starter solenoid.
Overheated starter solenoids were an issue with older Chevy LDs, especially the 350 V8s. The exhaust manifold was too close to the starter.
Larry
A good video that details the wear involved with the key switch in the column, shift lever gear selector, that could affect the starting situation you are having. My 23 yo LD doesn't have that problem. It is also too old to have the brake pedal as part of the safety interlock. I don't know if that comes into play for a 2006 chassis.
A test lead connection to the solenoid terminal with a 12v light, would verify if power is getting to that solenoid. If it isn't, then it isn't the starter. Somewhere on it's way to the solenoid, the 12volts is intermittent. That is where the problem is. Changing the starter just complicates things, because if it is still intermittent, then you've introduced another possibility that the 'new starter' is defective. If you do short those terminals to test the starter action, do it to the nuts, not the copper studs. The arc will damage the studs, and it will be hard to remove the nuts later. RonB
I found the solenoid (and presumably the starter adjacent to it). See the three attached pics, which actually make it look easily accessible, but it's way more buried than you'd think. Below the starter/solenoid assembly are these pipes that appear to be related to the exhaust system and possibly unique to the Banks Power system. In any event, I'm not currently able to lift the motorhome at all, and so I barely fit underneath, and certainly can't get the starter out or really do much of anything. At least I was able to push my phone up and get some good shots of the set-up. To me, the corrosion doesn't look too bad from the pics, but maybe that is indeed the issue. Today, I'll head over to Home Depot and get a multimeter or 12V light and put it on the large red wire to see if I'm getting 12V to the solenoid.
"I'm not currently able to lift the motorhome at all"
You've probably thought of this, but I sometimes lifted the front end of my Lazy Daze by driving it up onto leveling blocks or ramps. If you do this, be sure to chock the rear wheels solidly.
"Today, I'll head over to Home Depot and get a multimeter or 12V light"
A 12V test light is good for quick checks, and it's cheap. But a digital multimeter is much more useful, because it tells you whether (for example) voltage is present but too low, lets you check fuses and connections for continuity, and many other things. I recommend an autoranging meter--it's less complicated to use, and less intimidating if you're not familiar with this type of instrument. I use a Klein Tools autoranging meter (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-600V-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-MM400/206517333) that Home Depot carries.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
"I'm not currently able to lift the motorhome at all"
You've probably thought of this, but I sometimes lifted the front end of my Lazy Daze by driving it up onto leveling blocks or ramps. If you do this, be sure to chock the rear wheels solidly.
"Today, I'll head over to Home Depot and get a multimeter or 12V light"
A 12V test light is good for quick checks, and it's cheap. But a digital multimeter is much more useful, because it tells you whether voltage is present but too low, lets you check fuses and connections for continuity, and many other things. I recommend an autoranging meter--it's less complicated to use, and less intimidating if you're not familiar with this type of instrument. I use a Klein Tools autoranging meter (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-600V-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-MM400/206517333) that Home Depot carries.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
Thanks for the tip on which multimeter to buy.
Unfortunately, I can't drive up onto ramps though, because I can't get the motor started.
Got my Klein Tools Multimeter (Thanks Andy), and checked the voltage at the tip of the large red wire that connects to the solenoid. The reading was 12.45 volts. Does that mean that it must be that my starter/solenoid is bad, or could it be a Neutral Safety Switch or something else?
Thanks again, in advance, for your additional comments.
"I can't drive up onto ramps though, because I can't get the motor started."
Duh! OK, somebody kick me. I'm an idiot. 😉
Assuming no loads and no charging sources, such as solar panels, 12.45 V is about an 80% charge for a lead-acid battery. That's plenty to start an engine.
However, that's not the whole story. It takes both volts and amps--lots of amps--to start an engine. For example, suppose one of the connections (positive or ground) to your starter is badly corroded, so that the actual clean contact area is tiny. You might still see a good voltage there (especially since a pointed multimeter probe can push through corrosion), but that connection might only be able to pass a few amps, rather than the hundred+ amps needed to start the engine.
So what does your 12.45 V measurement tell you? Well, it seems your battery has a decent charge, and the voltage at the tip of the red wire on the solenoid shows that it's getting to the end of that wire. That leaves a few possibilities:
1. That connection to the solenoid is not good. The way to find out is to take it apart, clean the stud on the solenoid and the terminal on the wire using a wire brush, and put it back together.
2. The connection from the solenoid to the starter motor itself is not good. I'm not familiar with the type of motor+solenoid setup you have--mine was different--so somebody else will have to chime in with details on that.
3. The solenoid is bad.
4. The starter motor is bad.
About those last two possibilities: have you tried tapping on the motor and/or solenoid with a hammer (https://www.remodelormove.com/why-does-hitting-a-starter-with-a-hammer-work/)? That's been known to work in an emergency, although it's obviously not a long-term solution. Still, it's worth a try.
While looking for more information, I found a good video on how to diagnose and replace a starter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC409CU7mU8). The presenter covers much of what we've talked about, adds a few more tips, and shows how to actually replace the starter if one chooses to go the DIY route. I thought this was well done and worth watching.
While looking for more information, I found a good video on how to diagnose and replace a starter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC409CU7mU8). The presenter covers much of what we've talked about, adds a few more tips, and shows how to actually replace the starter if one chooses to go the DIY route. I thought this was well done and worth watching.
That was definitely worth watching. Thanks for sharing. I really appreciate it.
I'm convinced that my connection to the solenoid is bad or there is something wrong with the solenoid/starter combo. Unfortunately, I'm not able to adequately access this area to clean the connections or replace the solenoid/starter combo, because the headers of the Banks Power Exhaust system run under the solenoid/starter (You can see this in one of the pics I posted earlier).
And, of course, I don't know how to get these headers off to give me better access.
Guess I'll be looking for a mobile mechanic that can jack the motorhome up and has better equipment/tools and experience.
Of course, I'm open to any other suggestions. I've learned alot already from everyone and appreciate all of the posts.
Sincerely,
Eric
Assuming no loads and no charging sources, such as solar panels, 12.45 V is about an 80% charge for a lead-acid battery. That's plenty to start an engine.
However, that's not the whole story. It takes both volts and amps--lots of them--to start an engine. Let's say for the sake of argument that one of the connections (positive or ground) to your starter is badly corroded, so that the actual clean contact area is tiny. You might still see a good voltage (especially since a pointed multimeter probe can push through corrosion), but that connection might only be able to pass a few amps, rather than the hundred+ amps needed to start the engine.
So what does your 12.45 V measurement tell you? Well, it seems your battery has a decent charge, and the voltage at the tip of the red wire on the solenoid shows that it's getting to the end of that wire. That leaves a few possibilities:
1. That connection to the solenoid is not good. The way to find out is to take it apart, clean the stud on the solenoid and the terminal on the wire using a wire brush, and put it back together.
2. The connection from the solenoid to the starter motor itself is not good. I'm not familiar with the type of motor+solenoid setup you have--mine was different--so somebody else will have to chime in with details on that.
3. The solenoid is bad.
4. The starter motor is bad.
About those last two possibilities: have you tried tapping on the motor and/or solenoid with a hammer (https://www.remodelormove.com/why-does-hitting-a-starter-with-a-hammer-work/)? That's been known to work in an emergency, although it's obviously not a long-term solution. Still, it's worth a try.
I haven't tried the "tap the starter motor or solenoid", because my LD is safely parked at home, and I have no use for getting it started at this point; so, I want to save that option in case I need it and it happens to be a one-time "get out of jail" fix.
Hi Eric: you wrote " voltage at the tip of the large red wire that connects to the solenoid" No actually that's the wrong wire. That wire goes straight to the chassis battery. A 600 Amp peak current flows through that, and is too much to go through too many other places. The solenoid switch is built to carry that current. The wire you need to measure is the wire that energizes the solenoid switch. Smaller, but of questionable integrity. It's source goes through the key switch, gear selector switch, a few fuses and other relays, before it gets to the solenoid to activate the switch that actually provides current flow to the starter motor. When you do find that wire, short it to that big red wire cable, and the starter should turn over the engine. It's noisy, don't hit your head or jerk your hand around. Don't have the key on, or it might start the engine. RonB
To follow up on Ron's post, I looked at images of the starter motors on RockAuto. The typical solenoid configuration has three connections, the main power cable to the battery, a short strap to the starter motor case (grounding to the engine) and the start control wire. When the start switch is turned, there should be over 12V at that connection, which is likely the smaller red cable in the OPs pictures. Also there is likely a flexible ground strap that connects the engine block to the chassis which should be checked.
Art
Hi Eric: you wrote " voltage at the tip of the large red wire that connects to the solenoid" No actually that's the wrong wire. That wire goes straight to the chassis battery. A 600 Amp peak current flows through that, and is too much to go through too many other places. The solenoid switch is built to carry that current. The wire you need to measure is the wire that energizes the solenoid switch. Smaller, but of questionable integrity. It's source goes through the key switch, gear selector switch, a few fuses and other relays, before it gets to the solenoid to activate the switch that actually provides current flow to the starter motor. When you do find that wire, short it to that big red wire cable, and the starter should turn over the engine. It's noisy, don't hit your head or jerk your hand around. Don't have the key on, or it might start the engine. RonB
Thanks Ron! Appreciate the advice and caution about flinching my hand and head. I have to be honest: shorting that large red wire to anything make me nervous, because I can't even see the big red wire tip carrying hundreds of amps. I only see the red cover over it. When I had my multimeter up in there, I just pushed it up in there at the end of the big red wire cover and trusted that I was where I needed to be. In addition to limited visibility, it's difficult to maneuver around the Banks Power headers, and I have to "inchworm" my body around because I'm not able to lift the motorhome at all.
Even with those challenges, I'd like to push forward in case this turns out to be something I can fix myself. Couple questions:
Is the smaller wire you're referring to the smaller red wire visible in my pic attached to one of my earlier posts?
If I manage to short the large red wire to the smaller red wire, and it starts the engine, does that mean that the solenoid and starter motor are good, and the problem is somewhere along the path from ignition switch, through relays/switches, and ending up where the smaller wire connects to the solenoid?
As a separate test, should I put my multimeter probe on the tip of the smaller red wire to see if it gets energized when turning the ignition key all the way (like when I try to do the usual engine start)? Assuming I see adequate voltage (?) at the smaller red wire tip during those start attempts, wouldn't this mean that all is good up to that point and the problem is with the solenoid or starter, or with at least one their connections (either from the large red wire, small red wire, or something internal to the solenoid or starter)?
Hi Eric; Exactly! "As a separate test, should I put my multimeter probe on the tip of the smaller red wire to see if it gets energized when turning the ignition key all the way (like when I try to do the usual engine start)? Assuming I see adequate voltage (?) at the smaller red wire tip during those start attempts, wouldn't this mean that all is good up to that point and the problem is with the solenoid or starter, or with at least one their connections (either from the large red wire, small red wire, or something internal to the solenoid or starter)? "
If that wire has 12v+ on it when you try to start the engine, then it is more likely the starter. Since all of those parts come as a unit, any one can be bad and you still replace the whole unit. Supplying 12 volts to that small terminal, will turn the engine over. That would indicate that the starter, solenoid, and internals are working. If the key were on, which applies power to the fuel and ignition system it should start.
I've had my rig towed twice to local Ford dealers. Your motorhome is relatively small compared to some, so you should have towing insurance anyway. (maximum distances apply). While educational, any missteps can be really expensive. Call around and see if you can get smaller independents to work on your LD. A mobile repairman isn't the best choice. Especially if it requires disassembly of exhaust components. Better done in a shop. RonB
To me, the corrosion doesn't look too bad from the pics, but maybe that is indeed the issue.
If you can reach the nuts on the terminals, (BIG IF when youre inchworming around under there)
Remove them and wire brush the studs clean and shiny..all it takes is a little corrosion to cause your problem.
Make sure to disconnect the starting battery first to avoid any sparks if the fat cable touches ground. And dont try to take apart the smaller wire connection-that terminal on some late Ford starters is easily broken
I'm throwing in the towel, because my access to the solenoid/starter motor is too limited, because of the location of the Banks Power headers and because I'm not equipped to lift the motorhome. Plus, it's parked outstide and it's been raining every day. Oh, and did I mention that I'm eager to empty the black tank from our last trip a couple of weeks ago.
Fortunately, I have the Roadside Assistance option on my Progressive Motorhome insurance, and they cover up to 15 miles of towing.
So, I have a tow truck scheduled to take it to a Ford dealership tomorrow (Jan 4th).
I'll post another update once I have more information.
Thanks again to everyone for educating and guiding me. I sincerely appreciate it.
Eric
Eric,
A reliable mechanic is invaluable. I have mine. I used to take my RB to a Ford dealership in town for oil changes and warranty work (chassis AC failure) until they refused RV service or repair (too many owners complaining about rig damage while in for service). My auto mechanic is a fellow RV enthusiasts and is happy to have another of my vehicles to service.
Dumping our black/gray tanks before arrival back home has been problematic for us as well. This situation prompted me to purchase a Macerator which allows me to dump at our residence. Our clean out for sewer lines is about 60’ from our LD pad at the front of the home. A long dedicated lawn hose helps facilitate the dumping process. It’s nice to have this option when needed.
Hope your starter gets repaired soon.
Kent
Eric,
A reliable mechanic is invaluable. I have mine. I used to take my RB to a Ford dealership in town for oil changes and warranty work (chassis AC failure) until they refused RV service or repair (too many owners complaining about rig damage while in for service). My auto mechanic is a fellow RV enthusiasts and is happy to have another of my vehicles to service.
Dumping our black/gray tanks before arrival back home has been problematic for us as well. This situation prompted me to purchase a Macerator which allows me to dump at our residence. Our clean out for sewer lines is about 60’ from our LD pad at the front of the home. A long dedicated lawn hose helps facilitate the dumping process. It’s nice to have this option when needed.
Hope your starter gets repaired soon.
Kent
Thanks Kent. I have a sewer clean-out at my residence, which I love having, but it's in another location from where I park the RV. So, yeh, a macerator would do the trick in my current situation, but I expect that it will be a very rare occasion that I can't drive my LD to where the sewer clean-out is.
Well, I didn't know towing would become a problem.
Long story short, I waited all day (yesterday) for a tow truck. Then, a flatbed came and he wasn't able to get it on without the hitch receiver hitting the street. Trying again tomorrow.
After that incident, I read the forum posts about how to tow a LD (ie. lift the front end up with cradles, and have the driveshaft disconnected).
I'll keep you posted...
Hi Eric. I've been towed twice. The first time by Ford on a flat bed. (warranty). Second time with a 'fork' (I'll call it that anyway) attached to the front tires. Only the second time required the disconnection of the drive line, (at the differential). Mark it with soapstone, so that it can be reconnected properly aligned. Wire up the disconnected end so it won't slip out of the transmission. With water on the road chalk will wash off. I used a tire marker, sort of like a crayon. A center punch will also leave a mark on each part. My shorter motorhome is one advantage and I have a roller welded under the receiver mount. The tow truck driver should have had a helper rolling platform just for this occasion. RonB
Towing; been there, done that on our very first trip over to the coast after bringing Nocona back to California. Not much fun but thankfully we had driven a second vehicle (prior to being setup to tow) allowing us to follow the tow truck. There were no dealerships in SLO County willing to work on a RV so we ended up towing from Camp San Luis Obispo, where we were staying, to the Ford dealership in Bakersfield to replace a defective spark plug. As others have said, the driveshaft needs to be disconnected and wired up.
OP here...Just wanted to give everyone the final outcome of this "Intermittent Start Problem" which eventually became a consistent start problem (ie. wouldn't start). Ford service diagnosed the problem as a bad starter. They replaced the starter motor, the solenoid attached to it, and the relay in the engine compartment (ie. the one that also connects the house batteries with the engine battery). I'm not sure why they changed this relay. The engine now starts noticeably smoother than it did before.
As for the towing service that picked up the RV from the rear (with two "claws" that hooked from the underside of the welded-on hitch receiver): Maybe I got lucky, but there was no apparent damage that I could see by crawling underneath or anything noticeable while driving it home.
Thanks everyone for your input. I really appreciate it.
Eric
Hi Eric, thanks for letting us know the results. That combiner relay should be driven by the 'accessory' circuit. That circuit is turned off when the starter motor is energized, so your house batteries won't be helping the chassis battery provide power to the starter. You can of course put in a push button to do an 'emergency' start, using the house batteries, by temporarily connecting (jumping) the relay to 12v. I'm not sure which year the diode isolator was replaced with the 'no voltage drop' relay. https://www.supplyhouse.com/White-Rodgers-586-108111-Solenoid-SPNO-15-VDC-Isolated-Coil-Normally-Open-Continuous-Contact-Rating-200-Amps-Inrush-600-Amps?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0eOPBhCGARIsAFIwTs4gQws6LzxHDOujEFj9i1F0ccfuzbDUgO1hi70607__L02wturKK7kaAju_EALw_wcB
I'd get that relay back from whoever did the work. It is unlikely to be bad.
My E350 chassis is extended by Lazy Daze with relatively lightweight steel. Your E450 chassis may have main frame rails all the way back to the rear bumper, and it would be safe to lift by the rear bumper/frame rails.
No one replaces the starter motor separate from the solenoid. They are always replaced as a pair. RonB
Thanks Ron. Your post sparked me to look at the relay (that I thought was replaced) more carefully, and now I'm confused about what they actually did. The receipt shows a charge for part # F8UZ14N089AA, and here is a picture of what that part should look like.
I'm also attaching photos of what the relay (the one that connects the house batteries with the engine battery) looked like before the service and what it looks like now. To me, it just looks like they cleaned up the posts nicely.
Is there some other place where I might find the new part referenced on the receipt? If not, I'm wondering if they charged me for a new relay, but instead just cleaned the old relay???
Hi Eric; Ford easily has 20-30 relays in the chassis. The picture looks to be a Ford part, and may be involved with starting the engine. The one I specified in the link was bought and installed by Lazy Daze to charge your house batteries. So I don’t think your repairman did anything to that relay. RonB