A question for you electrical gurus: Tried to plug in the LD into a house circuit and it trips the circuit. Tried two different circuits with the same result (trips immediately upon plugging in). I believe this indicates a dead short. How would I test the cords for a short using a multimeter? It’s either in the 15-30 amp adapter, or the 30 amp Smart Plug cord.
Please walk me through on how to set up the multimeter and how to check as my electrical skills are, uh, lacking. :-[
First thing I would do is plug in the cord without the LD end plugged in. If that is ok, then check the LD end of the cord for correct polarity. If still ok, then the problem is likely with the rig.
Steve
So I plugged in the portable EMS. (Progressive industries PT30X) into my garage circuit using the 30 to 15 amp adapter. The surge protector is not showing any error codes and powers up fine so that would indicate that the 15 to 30 amp adapter is good, right?
It appears that the cord and adapter has continuity (assuming I’m checking correctly). When I plugged in the 30 amp SmartPlug cord to the EMS, I read 120v at the end that plugs into the RV. As soon as I plugged in the cord to the RV, the circuit tripped. I believe that Steve is correct that something is going on inside the RV. If that’s the case, where do I go from here?
First thing I would do is plug in the cord without the LD end plugged in. If that is ok, then check the LD end of the cord for correct polarity. If still ok, then the problem is likely with the rig.
How do I check for polarity, Steve?
Do you have an inverter/charger? It appears you have a neutral-ground problem, not a current problem.
I’m not knowledgable enough to help you solve it but some here are. Put an ohmmeter between neutral and ground and see what you get. It could be a problem within the transfer switch.
It sounds as if the circuit you are plugging into is a GFI circuit.
Hi Harry. Yes, I plugged into a GFCI circuit in the garage but earlier tried plugging into a standard circuit. It tripped at both locations. Further info, I did start up the generator and got 110 power in the coach if that means anything.
Are your house circuits on 20 or 15 amp breakers. Is the A/C accidently calling for cooling when you plug in.
Jon
Are your house circuits on 20 or 15 amp breakers. Is the A/C accidently calling for cooling when you plug in.
Hi Jon. No the AC controller is turned off. Garage circuit is a 20 amp (#13).
On mine the resistance between the two prongs without the lip on the side of the coach is 2.39 ohms. The resistance between any other two is infinite or open circuit. I can plug into a GFi circuit with no issue.
Harry, I’m not sure what you mean about the two prongs without the lip. This is how mine looks. Is yours different?
Yes, you have a Smart Plug.
Can you check the resistance between the two vertical prongs, generator off? Then the resistance between the horizontal one and each vertical one individually. I will look up Smart plug polarity. Just assuming the horizontal one is ground for now.
Horizontal pin is ground.
I tested between the different prongs as instructed and there is no change when I move the probes around on the prongs. The multimeter is stuck at 1. Am I doing this correctly?
Turn the switch to 200.
Short the two probes together and see if you get near zero.
Whoops, sorry about that! OK when I short the probes this is what I get (see photo). When I touch the prongs, no matter which way, the meter stays at 1, per my previous photo.
I don’t understand the measurements. Shorting the probes together should get zero.
Holding them apart, touching nothing, should get open circuit. Maybe 1 is it’s way of indicating open circuit.
Touching the two vertical pins with the probes should get a small number with a decimal. Mine was 2.39 ohms.
Turn the dial one more position over to the diode symbol. Does it beep when you touch the probes together?
The picture reads 1.6 ohms. That is the measured value of the resistance of the leads. The value will drift a bit as the bare metal of the leads are pressed together tighter. Releasing the leads will give you a "1" I don't remember exactly, I never look at it. Some meters will read "OL", I think "over limit", but just open. RonB
Greg, if you are tripping breaker 13, you are tripping a 220v breaker. Does your outlet have 220V on it?
Jon
Jon, it’s tripping the GFCI, not breaker 13. It did also trip a different 15 amp breaker previously. The circuit trips immediately when the coach is plugged in, no delay.
Harry, Ron, I’ll try a different meter later this morning.
Thanks for everyone’s help. Hopefully will get this figured out today!
Greg, looking back at your issue, you say that you get a '1' no matter which prongs you touch - do you still get a 1 when you touch nothing? If so, that is the meter's way of indicating 'open circuit', i.e. no connection. Just for giggles, measure between prongs on both AC and DC voltage ranges to see if there is any reading. Finally, try plugging in without the surge protector. Something may have failed internally that causes the breaker to pop when it is in the loop.
Steve
I don’t understand the measurements. Shorting the probes together should get zero.
Holding them apart, touching nothing, should get open circuit. Maybe 1 is it’s way of indicating open circuit.
Touching the two vertical pins with the probes should get a small number with a decimal. Mine was 2.39 ohms.
Turn the dial one more position over to the diode symbol. Does it beep when you touch the probes together?
Maybe this meter is bad? When I short the probes I get 1.5.
Greg, looking back at your issue, you say that you get a '1' no matter which prongs you touch - do you still get a 1 when you touch nothing? If so, that is the meter's way of indicating 'open circuit', i.e. no connection. Just for giggles, measure between prongs on both AC and DC voltage ranges to see if there is any reading. Finally, try plugging in without the surge protector. Something may have failed internally that causes the breaker to pop when it is in the loop.
Steve, yes it reads 1 when you turn the meter on with the 200 scale selected. I’m not sure what you mean by measuring the prongs on the AC and DC voltage ranges.
The circuit is tripped even when you bypass the surge protector and plug directly into the outlet.
I’m not sure what you mean by measuring the prongs on the AC and DC voltage ranges.
The circuit is tripped even when you bypass the surge protector and plug directly into the outlet.
I want you to see if there is AC or DC voltage present on the shorepower connector on the side of the rig before connecting.
Steve
I want you to see if there is AC or DC voltage present on the shorepower connector on the side of the rig before connecting.g
OK, I switched to a Klein Tools auto-ranging meter. I tested with one probe on one of the vertical prongs, and the other on the horizontal prong on the side of the coach. No reading when I tested for AC voltage. On DC voltage, I got an initial reading but after several minutes it slowly drifted down to zero.
Also, confirmed AC voltage through the 15-30 amp adapter and the 30 amp LD power cord to the female end that plugs into the coach.
Greg,
I am not an electrical expert at all. And I have no idea where your new problem is originating. But from rereading your posts about your starting battery and then later in that thread you indicated your house batteries were reading 12.2 volts, the concern I have is that there is something going on in your converter/charging center. Even with deteriorating house batteries, I would think your solar system would keep them reading in the 12.6 - 14.2 volt range; they may not hold that charge for long if you put a load on them but I don't understand how the solar display would be reading 12.2 unless you have the solar fuse pulled. Now your latest issue seems to be you can't plug your Lazy Daze to shore power.
If it were me, I would begin by turning off every circuit breaker in the Lazy Daze and then try plugging in to shore power. If your shore power circuit breaker does not trip, then start turning the circuit breaker back on one by one to find out which circuit may have a problem.
Also, have you checked the fuses that route power to the electrical center (the charger/converter) to see if they are blown?
If I am not mistaken, you replaced the charging unit with one you bought from Mike Coachman, is that correct? If so, is there a possibility that you made an error during installation?
In my opinion, I get the feeling you are hoping the meter you are trying to use will reveal a problem. But that would be dependent on knowing how to use that meter properly.... I know I can barely read voltage with mine and proper use of one is way above my pay grade. I am just saying that I would try a methodical system of finding the problem without hurting myself.
Steve K
Steve K., that was a great suggestion! I turned off all the breakers in the coach, then plugged the RV in and turned on the breakers one by one. I was also using the surge protector. Initially, everything worked for a brief time, then the circuit tripped. So I think I’ve isolated the problem to either the surge protector or converter. My thinking is that, although the converter CB was on, perhaps it didn’t run initially, then it kicked on and tripped the circuit.
The good part about getting Mike Coachman’s converter is that it is very quiet. The bad part is that it’s so quiet I can’t tell when it’s “converting!” Is there a way to tell? BTW, I have been using Mike’s converter with no issues to date.
So right now, the coach is plugged into the garage circuit, NOT using the surge protector. All the AC breakers in the coach are energized and all seems normal. I have not tried to run the air conditioner, though.
Thank for your suggestion!
The good part about getting Mike Coachman’s converter is that it is very quiet. The bad part is that it’s so quiet I can’t tell when it’s “converting!” Is there a way to tell? BTW, I have been using Mike’s converter with no issues to date.
Does your surge protector have a LED readout that shows amperage? If it does, it should show a change when the converter is switched on or off.
Another way to determine if the converter is working is to turn several 12-volt appliances and/or lights on and then turn the battery switch to the 'off' position and pull the solar fuse. If the lights still are bright, the converter is working
Larry
Does your surge protector have a LED readout that shows amperage? If it does, it should show a change when the converter is switched on or off.
Another way to determine if the converter is working is to turn several 12-volt appliances and/or lights on and then turn the battery switch to the 'off' position and pull the solar fuse. If the lights still are bright, the converter is working
Unfortunately, it’s the portable Progressive Industries unit and does not display amps. But I’ll try the other method that you mentioned. Hoping to get a better hard-wired surge protector installed in the future. Thanks, Larry!
EDIT: Pulled the solar fuse and disconnected coach batteries and coach lights are bright so it appears converter is working. I suspect the portable EMS now (not using it at the moment). Getting over 13.8V at the DC fuse board.
"Unfortunately, it’s the portable Progressive Industries unit and does not display amps."
Greg, it sounds as if you have PI's SSP-30X (https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ssp-30x) or SSP-30XL (https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ssp-30xl), which just have three LEDs. If you end up replacing it, consider the EMS-PT30X (https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-pt30x) model, which shows voltage, current, line frequency, and any error codes (current and most recent) in rotation on its LED display.
Better still, get the hardwired EMS-HW30C (https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c) version, which shows the same information on a small wired remote display module that can be mounted anywhere you like. That way it can't be stolen and you can't forget and leave it behind. (Also, it's one less 30 amp plug/socket connection to possibly go bad.)
Thanks, Andy. Looking at the replacement cost of the portable vs. the cost of the hardwired version ($30 more on Amazon), it’s a no-brainer to order the hardwired unit so I did. I’m sure I’ll be back with installation questions once received! :D
Hi Greg,
I’ve been following this — for educational value in case I run into a similar issue. So glad you got this figured out!
I went with a portable EMS for this very issue. Don’t want to be in a jam on a trip if the EMS fails, as would be the case with one permanently installed.
Our friends, who we camp with, also just had a failure with their 2-month-old Progressive EMS (portable). The LCD display on their unit isn’t hinting at a problem — there’s just no power at the EMS outlet.
While the experience of folks here (with way more knowledge than me) have proven that PD is a reliable product, I’d still be concerned about the possibility of failure — even though I don’t think I’ve heard of a failure of one of the hardwired versions, only the portable ones.
So, while I strongly considered hardwired, I ultimately decided on carrying a portable EMS with a comparatively far less expensive surge protector to serve as my backup in case of EMS failure.
Though I definitely agree that hardwired is more convenient (during set up and take down, and not needing to lock it up at the post in a feeble attempt at inconveniencing a thief).
Like Jason, after considering the options, I decided on a portable EMS device. I chose the SouthWire 34930, after weighing input from this community on SouthWire versus Progressive Industries. I have been happy with my decision on both counts. The device has performed well over the past 3.5 years, alerting/protecting my coach’s electrical system to numerous hazardous campground power conditions (also a part of the PI unit you bought, Greg). I particularly like the LED display on the device: 1) it shows campground power faults/hazards while I am still outside by the power pole during set-up and 2) shows the amp hour load being drawn by the coach.
I noticed that at $200, the device now costs quite a bit less than what I paid when I bought it.
Amazon.com: Southwire 34930 Surge Guard 30A - Full Protection Portable with... (https://www.amazon.com/Southwire-34930-30A-Full-Protection-Portable/dp/B07BNVKS9F/ref=asc_df_B07BNVKS9F?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80264466333901&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583863993011067&psc=1)
Actually, I feel a bit like a hypocrite recommending a hardwired EMS, because I'm using a portable EMS-PT30X right now. I had a hardwired EMS-HW30C in my Lazy Daze, but when I bought my first Airstream, things worked out so that I had to head out in a hurry. I wanted protection, so I picked up the portable version, and have been using it ever since--too lazy to buy and install the hardwired model, even though I believe that's the best way to go. So do as I say, not as I do! 😉
So was plugged in overnight (no EMS) with no problems. As a final test, I reintroduced the portable EMS into the equation. It immediately killed power to the coach. After a minute or two, my garage GFCI circuit tripped.