Looks like my starting battery has indeed gone bad after five years. Seeking recommendations for a replacement.
I have an Interstate battery I got at Costco that has held up well.
This is the battery that I had installed in (what was) my 2003:
NSB-AGM65 (https://www.northstarbattery.com/product/23b61edb-4638-4650-8d03-1d6c76395bce)
Looks like my starting battery has indeed gone bad after five years. Seeking recommendations for a replacement.
Hum, is 5-6 years about it for a chassis battery?
Wonder if I should preemptively change before next season.
I checked Amazon for a price on the North Star and then RockAuto. Rock Auto sells a “Performance AGM” battery (Full River 93065), that appears to have slightly better specs than the North Star at a considerably lower price ($305 vs $542).
Here is the Rock Auto link. Allow the page to load and the. Scroll down to the “Performance AGM” section.
2019 FORD E-450 6.8L V10 Battery | RockAuto (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2019,e-450,6.8l+v10,3443663,electrical,battery,2476)
Hey Greg,
I have an Interstate from Costco but I am not sure I would get another one from them. Originally they had a great warranty with a good replacement program but the program has changed to a 1 year free replacement program. My experience the last few years is that the Costco battery doesn't seem to hold up. That has been true with our Lazy Daze and my wife's Subaru.
I think I would be tempted to get another battery from Ford if I had to pay retail.
Steve K.
"...starting battery has indeed gone bad after five years. Seeking recommendations for a replacement."
When I switched from wet cell to AGM I bought an Interstate MTZ 65 AGM at BigO tires. I'm now on the 2nd one of that type. ;D
Hum, is 5-6 years about it for a chassis battery?
Wonder if I should preemptively change before next season.
Many variables, of course. I started noticing slow cranking last week. The glow light indicator on top of the battery was still green at that point, and the voltage was a bit low but not too bad. This morning the voltage is at 11.7 and the glow indicator is not glowing.
Also, since this will be my first time removing the LD battery, other than removing the negative cable first are there any other concerns (not concerned about radio settings since I have none)? Should the solar fuse(s) be pulled first?
Hi Greg; I'm not familiar with your 'Glow light'. Are you referring to a 'specific gravity of the electrolyte' indicator?
What is the voltage of the battery just sitting there. If it has some charge being applied from elsewhere it should be at about 12.9 volts or higher. If not, you should be aware that periodically starting the engine and running it for just a few minutes, (say 30-45) is detrimental to the charge state. It takes a long time to charge lead acid batteries properly. Especially big engines with cold oil. In addition, electricity generation is a result of instant chemical reaction inside the battery. It really doesn't store any electricity. It releases electrons as a result of sulfuric acid reacting with lead to form lead sulfide. Cold temperatures slow down this reaction. Many times a poor or contaminated connection point on the way to and from the starter motor can give the appearance of a 'bad' battery. So check that first.
And to Dave K. it has been my experience that 5-6 years is a realistic time period to start watching a battery for signs that it may be time for a new one. Like Jota, I replaced my chassis battery this last February '22 with a Costco size 65 Interstate battery. As mentioned a while back, Costco has had problems with recent Interstate batteries, I think as a result of the covid delays and disruptions in the supply chain. (my interpretation). RonB
As an aside; Interstate is a contractor who selects batteries from other manufacturers. They don't actually make them. So one of their vendors may have issues. Interstate Batteries - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Batteries)
Hi Greg; Just remove and replace the ground lead first and last, Don't short the positive lead to anything, your R3000i solar controller may have a charging voltage present. That's a good policy anyway, anytime to not touch that positive lead to anything that isn't the positive terminal of the new battery. RonB
Ron, I’m probably not using the correct terminology but this is what I meant by glow light. You can barely see the green glow in the photo. It's dark now.
For what it is worth, when I am getting concerned with a lead acid battery, I use a battery hydrometer to check the condition of each cell. Of course this only works with batteries where you can remove the battery caps to add distilled water. What I do is charge the battery, let it rest with no load on it for at least an hour, and then check each cell's specific gravity with the hydrometer.
I want each cell to register a similar value. A noticeable discrepancy would indicate one or more cells are going bad. That is probably being indicated by the green "glow" light on your battery. I think the green light only indicates the condition of a single cell.
Of course you could take your battery to a parts store and they will "load test" if for you.
Steve K
Thanks for all your help on this. The Northstar is a little pricey for my tastes and we are over an hour away from Costco. Decided to go with the NAPA Legend AGM. Don't really want to deal with maintaining the battery and we have a NAPA store right here in town, plus I got 20% off using an online coupon.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BAT9865?impressionRank=6
Looks like a solid battery choice Greg. Great warranty and I like that NAPA discloses the battery manufacturer.
Steve K
For the record, the indicator isn't a light and doesn't glow. As Ron said, it's a very basic float-type hydrometer--a colored plastic ball of a certain specific gravity at the bottom of a tube. Depending upon the charge state of the battery electrolyte, the ball will or won't float to where it's visible. This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QckkrHWPfw) shows what it looks like. (No, I don't know how the demonstrator gets away with handling the wet-with-acid indicator assembly barehanded!)
I second Steve's recommendation to test each cell individually. Since the cells are in series, if a single cell goes bad it will bring down the whole battery.
Another question. Now I’m noticing that the house batteries are low at 12.2 volts. Could a bad engine battery affect the house batteries?
Greg, we use NAPA battery's in our 400 hp Piston Bully groomer and they are good batteries. I have always gotten a 5 year battery and they will last 6 to 7 years on a vehicle that is driven most every day. 12.2 seems a little low.
Jon
Another question. Now I’m noticing that the house batteries are low at 12.2 volts. Could a bad engine battery affect the house batteries?
House battery voltage is down to 11.7. I went ahead and disconnected them with the disconnect switch, and pulled the solar fuse in the converter. Should I disconnect the engine battery until I can replace it?
I have run Costco starting batteries in our LD for years. While there are better batteries (for a much higher price) the Costco batteries have worked fine ever since changing to the Blue Sky 3000i solar controller, it keeps the starting battery fully charged, even with the converter turned off, when parked at home.
AFAIK, Costo's warranty is a one-year replacement and prorated for the rest of the warranty. I replaced one of my Jeep's batteries about 6 months ago and it was prorated.
In case the starting battery dies, the lithium coach battery is wired through a marine battery switch that allows jumping the starting battery with a turn of a switch. We carry a portable lithium battery jumper for use with the LD or Jeep.
The Wrangler's battery is also available for jumping.
It's good to have a backup plan(s).
Larry
I run a yellow top AGM Optima battery in Harvey. It's not cheap, but Harvey started right up after sitting for 18 months!
Picked up the new battery from NAPA this morning. Removed the old one and installed the new one with no issues. The old battery was down to 10.7V so definitely dead. Now I’m just monitoring everything to make sure all is well.
Just a note for those who haven’t done this before. The wrench size for the battery clamps, as well as the battery retainer, is 5/16”. Be sure to clean off the old terminal clamps and put some dielectric grease on them before installing the new battery.
Notice in the photo where the mice were nibbling on the battery cozy. I elected to leave it off the new battery.
I’m still curious as to whether the starting battery was drawing down the house batteries?
Gregg,
As far as I know, unless someone got into your electrical system, the chassis battery and the coach batteries (house) are isolated from one another. Therefore the bad chassis battery has no effect on the coach batteries.
Remember that the dash 12 volt (two) are fed by the chassis battery. Anything drawing power via those outlets will eventually drain the chassis battery. This has been stated before but it bares repeating: The solar will only charge the chassis battery once the coach batteries are completely full.
Hope your chassis battery remains charged but I wouldn’t rely solely on the solar charger to keep it to 100% SOC.
Kent
Hi Greg. The chassis battery is separated from the house battery system in older LD's by a diode isolator. Newer systems from LD use a relay (contactor) to isolate the systems. The relay is only on when the engine is running, and directly connects the two systems. The SB3000i only provides power to the chassis battery when in absorption or float modes, and is limited to 2.0 Amps at most. So the house batteries may not charge to as high a voltage, if the Solar Boost controller is diverting some power to the chassis battery. That 10.7 Voltage is characteristic of a shorted cell. Each cell is about 2.2 volts, and 10.7 is short one cell. RonB
Hi Greg. The chassis battery is separated from the house battery system in older LD's by a diode isolator. Newer systems from LD use a relay (contactor) to isolate the systems. The relay is only on when the engine is running, and directly connects the two systems. The SB3000i only provides power to the chassis battery when in absorption or float modes, and is limited to 2.0 Amps at most. So the house batteries may not charge to as high a voltage, if the Solar Boost controller is diverting some power to the chassis battery. That 10.7 Voltage is characteristic of a shorted cell. Each cell is about 2.2 volts, and 10.7 is short one cell. RonB
That’s what I thought, Ron and Kent. Just curious why the house batteries were losing voltage (down to 11.7 volts before I disconnected them). Could the Trik-L-Start unit have something to do with that?
That’s what I thought, Ron and Kent. Just curious why the house batteries were losing voltage (down to 11.7 volts before I disconnected them). Could the Trik-L-Start unit have something to do with that?
Should not, unless hooked up incorrectly. Had an instance of that recently on a friend's SOB, which in that case discharged the chassis battery when the house Lithiums went dead.
Steve
Hi Greg; No the Trik-L-Start shuts off if the source voltage (house batteries) goes below about 13.2. So 10.7 volts is a shorted cell. Lead material cracks and breaks off, falling into the bottom of the battery and sometimes is big enough to form a short between cells. just a big acid bath down there. A 10.7 volt battery even with all the remaining cells fully charged will look like dead battery to the Trik-L-Start; it won't try to charge it, but if the voltage on the house batteries goes up, say plugged in, or solar charging, 3 Amps of that will go to the failed chassis battery. If it is the converter doing the charging, there is more than enough power to run the house incidental loads, (radio memory, LPGas detector, etc.). Solar maybe not enough to actually charge the house batteries very well. 11.7 volts is definitely a bit low. How old are they, and how cold are they? Are there any other devices running? And with a new chassis battery is their voltages going back up? RonB
And so Steve, was the Triklstart defective or just hooked up incorrectly? I presently have the old triklstart connected, but the new Trik-L-Start needs a relay to disable it while running the engine alternator DC/DC charger because of some instability with the LiF's.
battery was down to 10.7V so definitely dead. Now I’m just monitoring everything to make sure all is well.
Just a note for those who haven’t done this before. The wrench size for the battery clamps, as well as the battery retainer, is 5/16”. Be sure to clean off the old terminal clamps and put some dielectric grease on them before installing the new battery.
Notice in the photo where the mice were nibbling on the battery cozy. I elected to leave it off the new battery.
The battery's 'cozy' insulating jacket is there for heat protection, not to keep it warm. It should be replaced to protect the battery from high temperatures during long summertime drives.
Your 2017 E450 has a metric chassis, all the Ford hardware is metric. The battery terminal uses a 10MM nut.
Many SAE (American) and metric fasteners can sometimes be used with SAE or metric tools, but beware, the hardware can be damaged in many situations.
Surprisingly, almost all the under-the-hood maintenance and minor repairs can be done with a 1/4" metric socket kit.
Larry
The battery's 'cozy' insulating jacket is there for heat protection, not to keep it warm. It should be replaced to protect the battery from high temperatures during long summertime drives.
Your 2017 E450 has a metric chassis, all the Ford hardware is metric. The battery terminal uses a 10MM nut.
Many SAE (American) and metric fasteners can sometimes be used with SAE or metric tools, but beware, the hardware can be damaged in many situations.
Surprisingly, almost all the under-the-hood maintenance and minor repairs can be done with a 1/4" metric socket kit.
Thanks for educating me regarding the “cozy”, Larry. Is that the proper term for it or is it called something else? I went ahead and taped up the areas where the mouse had nibbled on it with black duct tape and reinstalled it, based on your suggestion.
I was surprised that battery terminal uses a 5/16 inch wrench instead of a 10 mm wrench as well but it does!
Metric conversion tables are handy helpers! 5/16” is 0.3937008”. Converted to mm, that’s 10.000000.32 mm.
My head hurts now. ;)
That’s perplexing, Joan, since my 10 mm wrench is obviously larger than the 5/16 inch wrench. Then again, math was never my best subject.
Math isn’t a big part of my skill set, either, so check it out and, hey, “show your work!”
;)
That’s perplexing, Joan, since my 10 mm wrench is obviously larger than the 5/16 inch wrench. Then again, math was never my best subject.
Greg
I was wrong in saying the battery terminal has a 10MM bolt, it is an 8MM bolt (just checked).
5/16" = .3125" = 7.9375MM. 5/16" is very close to 8MM and works fine for this application.
Inches to Millimeters - in to mm conversion (https://www.metric-conversions.org/length/inches-to-millimeters.htm)
Larry
Math isn’t a big part of my skill set, either, so check it out and, hey, “show your work!”
;)
Solar maybe not enough to actually charge the house batteries very well. 11.7 volts is definitely a bit low. How old are they, and how cold are they? Are there any other devices running? And with a new chassis battery is their voltages going back up? RonB
Hi Ron, sorry for the delayed response. Since I'm not able to plug in right now (see the Dead Short thread), I'm depending on solar to do the job (although I did run the generator earlier to see if I could get AC power to the coach that way- I did). The house batteries are original as far as I know (2017). Nothing else was running except the propane detector and a couple hard-wired USB chargers that have a LED indicator so no load to speak of. The new chassis battery seems to be fully charged now at 12.7V, and the house batteries are charging through solar. I'll test them later after the sun goes down but I think they are ok now.