Ok so the recent discussion about Starlink has been a bit derailed with talk of adding Solar. With that in mind and if appropriate, I thought it prudent to continue Solar installations here.
Muhammad,
AM Solar is a great place to have work done. However, while hoping to get them to provide installation while in the area may be a bit optimistic. Like so many businesses, they are generally an appointment driven service.
This is not to say that dropping by will be fruitless. They may well give you advice. That being said, installations can take several days to accomplish. This is true with more complicated installations. Our installation for example took the better part of 5 days. Of course they did a total refit of our existing system that Lazy Daze installed.
Success for your upgrade. Hope they can fit you in while you’re in the area.
Kent
Thanks Kent. I did talk to them and fortunately person on the other end of the phone did not laugh on my proposal. He asked me to document everything in email for them to see the feasibility and give me the estimate.
Demand and supply and fortunately skilled labor is always in high demand. I do remember reading you documenting the wait and installation process. This was the reason I was thinking about DIY approach with flexible panels.
We will be in the middle of RV manufacturing Mecca for few days and I might find some opportunity. Fortunately this is just an upgrade and if it does not work out it is not life and death.
Take care Kent.
When I bought my 2017 TK in southeast Washington seven weeks ago, I called AM Solar to see if I could drop by on the drive back to the Bay Area to have them give me an estimate on my solar upgrades while I happened to be in the area.
They were not available on such short notice (five days), but they also said they didn’t have to see my TK for an estimate as they are very familiar with Lazy Daze, having done quite a few.
They were able give me an estimate within a week, at which point I made an appointment. Granted, I was telling them to take off the existing solar and maximize what I could have on the roof (680) and upgrade to lithium, so they weren’t trying to extend the existing setup.
Heading up for the install on May 21st, will take 4-5 days.
I suspect you’ll need to give up your visit to Crater Lake to gain a couple days, but you should have an estimate before you leave in two weeks. I’m glad to hear you’re not going to attempt the upgrade yourself just before you set out on such a long journey, you existing setup should be good enough given you’ll be on the move quite a bit.
When I bought my 2017 TK in southeast Washington seven weeks ago, I called AM Solar to see if I could drop by on the drive back to the Bay Area to have them give me an estimate on my solar upgrades while I happened to be in the area.
They were not available on such short notice (five days), but they also said they didn’t have to see my TK for an estimate as they are very familiar with Lazy Daze, having done quite a few.
They were able give me an estimate within a week, at which point I made an appointment. Granted, I was telling them to take off the existing solar and maximize what I could have on the roof (680) and upgrade to lithium, so they weren’t trying to extend the existing setup.
Heading up for the install on May 21st, will take 4-5 days.
I suspect you’ll need to give up your visit to Crater Lake to gain a couple days, but you should have an estimate before you leave in two weeks. I’m glad to hear you’re not going to attempt the upgrade yourself just before you set out on such a long journey, you existing setup should be good enough given you’ll be on the move quite a bit.
Could I ask the cost for such an upgrade?
Sure, it’s an expensive upgrade, $18,000, a bit over half is labor
300 Ah of lithium
680 Watts solar
Victron Multiplus 3000VA Inverter Kit
It’s only money. Peace of mind is a great reward.
Plenty to do for a week on the Oregon coast.
Kent
Sure, it’s an expensive upgrade, $18,000, a bit over half is labor
300 Ah of lithium
680 Watts solar
Victron Multiplus 3000VA Inverter Kit
That is pricey, the parts are a little more than $5000, for a DIYer.
$12.000+ for labor is a lot of bucks for a few days of labor.
Victron MultiPlus Compact 12/2000/80-30 230V VE.Bus Inverter Charger :... (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-MultiPlus-Compact-Inverter-Charger/dp/B074QLJT2K/ref=asc_df_B074QLJT2K?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80882941400092&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584482470474749&psc=1)
100 Ah 12V GC2 LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery | Battle Born Batteries (https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/100ah-12v-gc2-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/)
Amazon.com: Renogy 12 Volt Solar Panel 100 Watt High-Efficiency Monocrystalli... (https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocrystalline-Solar-Compact-Design/dp/B07GF5JY35/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_rp_c_sccl_1_1/137-7183990-0147635?pd_rd_w=qAPSp&pf_rd_p=c40cc3f9-a100-4914-8c06-0d36763c1da7&pf_rd_r=TB7ZVGVHR3277N9N6K99&pd_rd_r=ab27c6ce-df51-42d6-966a-33fc885b2a32&pd_rd_wg=r3sgp&pd_rd_i=B07GF5JY35&th=1)
Add around $300 for misc parts. I would add a battery switch and a 300-amp catastrophe Fuse.
Larry
It’s only money. Peace of mind is a great reward.
Plenty to do for a week on the Oregon coast.
I recall my father’s never ending electrical troubles with his Chinook, so in my book, it’s better to pay for a quality install upfront to minimize troubles on the road.
Spent time on the coast last year, loved it, one of my pics is very similar.
Ahhh…Depot Bay. My brother spent almost a decade in the Coast Guard in Depot Bay. It’s featured in “Sometimes A Great Notion” with Henry Fonda. https://youtu.be/kJz8JEEjGrI
The fact that labor costs are a good part of a Solar Upgrade is something to think about. With that added cost comes peace of mind, no labor on the rv owners part, and the knowledge base of an expert doing all the thinking and installation.
I certainly would have screwed the whole thing up if I had tried to do my install on my own. Add to the mix is AM’s unlimited tech support at this price point.
If I had purchased all the needed components for a DIY install, RonB would still be on my roof plugging along. Thanks Ron. You’re the best. 😜
Kent
"Plenty to do for a week on the Oregon coast."
Tell me, when was it that they moved AM Solar from Springfield to the coast??? :D
Here’s a breakdown of all the components from AM Solar, though one of the batteries costs $250 more as it has extra monitoring ability.
3 x 100Ah Low Temp LifeBlue Lithium Battery, $990 each
4 x 170 Watt Solar Panel Kit with Rocker Mounts $465 each
Victron Multiplus 3000VA Inverter Kit- Full Pass, $2325
30A Orion Alternator Charger Kit, $330
SunRunner Victron MPPT 50A, $625
Easy Start Kit, $320
Misc parts, $650
So labor is the other half of the expenses. Yes the labor is still expensive.
I knew going into ownership that I could do very few projects like this myself, not due to ability, but because I can’t work on the TK at the condo.
Steve,
You mentioned “ Tell me, when was it that they moved AM Solar from Springfield to the coast???”
Funny. We made an adventure of it. Were there things to do in Springfield? Other than hang out in their parking lot? AM said we could stay in the LD at night while they did the installation but at a 25% up charge in the overall costs. Yikes.
It was a wonderful journey plus we took some great advice 🤔 and checked out the Tillamook Creamery. Nice. Lots of cheese and the ice cream was great.
Kent
Dave,
Not sure when will I get the chance to see Crater Lake, unless one of us get sick or some other family or truck emergency happen none of the national parks are getting out of the plan especially for optional upgrades (truck is here to serve us and not otherway around). As you said stock setup is very decent and even without additional solar pannels we did pretty well and will continue to be happy but I will keep my eyes open for oppertunity to add more solar pannels. One of the option I considered was to add a solar connection on battery compartment lid to be able to use brief case solar pannel for charging batteries but then I remember the difficulty I had with managing thick and short battery wires when I was trying to put vectron shank and shot this idea. Thanks for sharing your experience and good to have some reality dose once in a while.
I do remember Kent messages where he mentioned abusing his batteries for few years before electrical refresh. Not a bad plan .... I am not planning to discharge batteries below 60% and hope to get few years from current setup and who know what our plans will be in few years anyway.
Regards,
I suspect you’ll need to give up your visit to Crater Lake to gain a couple days, but you should have an estimate before you leave in two weeks. I’m glad to hear you’re not going to attempt the upgrade yourself just before you set out on such a long journey, you existing setup should be good enough given you’ll be on the move quite a bit.
Hi Dave; That easy start kit for the A/C was incidental, but it does put less stress on the batteries if you were to run your A/C from them. You also paid extra for the low temp batteries, that have internal heaters. A good plan if you will be in cold weather. In a TK, where did(will) they locate the batteries?
Incidentals sounds low at $650. I spent lots for extra circuit breakers, the rotary heavy duty switches 500A rated 1,2, neither or both, and the on/off to the inverter. Stainless screws/nuts nyloc nuts/washers, #2 welding cable red and black, red and black buss bars, crimper and copper crimp terminals, tape heat shrink, aluminum framing for the panels and on and on. I already had picked the BalMar battery monitor, but the SOH portion is less useful without lead acid batteries. Also the inverter was almost a separate project.
I notice they are using the Orion DC to DC converter instead of the Cyrix to spare the chassis alternator. And your alternator is more capable than my 130A chassis.
Dave, are they changing the house converter battery charger? RonB
The batteries are going in the same location as the existing house batteries, and I’m not going to shy away from cold weather, so low temp batteries are useful.
As to the house converter battery charger, I assume so, the quote covered upgrades to Solar Charging, Alternator Charging, and Shore Power Charging.
Thanks Dave; Shore power charging is done by the converter, and needs a higher voltage for LiF than the lead acid need. RonB
Whew! I'm glad I had all my solar installed years ago, using 6 gauge wire in case of future upgrades, all done by an RV guy who previously worked for AM Solar, and cost less than a quarter of this $$$$. It has served me well for nearly ten years now, and every time I think of adding more panels have been told that since I am up to 100% nearly every day before noon, even with charging everything, watching videos at night and so on, that I'm doing fine as I am. I did change to a better converter and replaced the batteries a couple times over the years, but I should just be happy. Kudos to you, Dave!
I already posted in the 'Repair, Maintenance' thread, but we recently had work done by Quality RV Solar in Grass Valley, CA, and were very pleased with price and quality. We replaced/upgraded our solar panels, had a new battery controller, solar controller, pass-thru inverter, additional outlets, back camera, internal EMS put in, and were very pleased. Because our batteries are only a year old, we're not going Lithium till next time, but we'll definitely go back to the same shop. If you are in Northern CA, you might want to check it out.
I already posted in the 'Repair, Maintenance' thread, but we recently had work done by Quality RV Solar in Grass Valley, CA, and were very pleased with price and quality.
Solar Dan has done a bit of work on LDs, I have not heard any complaints and he is a lot closer to the Bay Area than Springfield Oregon, less expensive too.
AM Solar does first class work, their shop is amazing, custom built for solar installations.
Larry
Larry,
You mentioned earlier charges for labor cost is too much. When time come for me to refresh, I will look for solution close to Amazon.com : EF ECOFLOW DELTA Pro 7.2KWh/3600W Home Backup Power, Solar... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09YSZ7W2S/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?pd_rd_i=B09MVJP7MV&pd_rd_w=GvuAm&pf_rd_p=57cbdc41-b731-4e3d-aca7-49078b13a07b&pd_rd_wg=O6ExL&pf_rd_r=CX40QQ70DHQX3A21TCYZ&pd_rd_r=9b7cf515-36ca-4349-b3ca-1a94f4b69ba0&s=lawn-garden&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzMlRKNUo0SFc4UFlSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTU3NTcyMTc2TkQ4SDVTVzdEUSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzQ4MzE0MURMMVlMTjFOVkhKSyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1) it has 30A outlet which we can put in the LD and as for charging it has a very fast charge, just 90 minute of generator if we exhaust entire 7.2 KW in 24 hrs which I doubt anybody can do it.
I am not ready to refresh yet but when time come I will prefer cheap streamed line labor instead of customized install. Just my point of view ....
Solar Dan has done a bit of work on LDs, I have not heard any complaints and he is a lot closer to the Bay Area than Springfield Oregon, less expensive too.
AM Solar does first class work, their shop is amazing, custom built for solar installations.
Larry
Well, I'm glad I had "customized install" so I could get exactly what I wanted from a capable person, instead of "streamed line labor", whatever that is, but even that probably wouldn't be cheap... expertise costs, as does using heavier gauge wire. YMMV.
I understand that it's tempting to buy a "black box" that will meet your needs, rather than drive somewhere and pay to have a custom installation done. The question is whether a black box will meet your needs.
That Ecoflow battery pack weighs 84 pounds, and is more than two cubic feet in bulk. I'd have trouble finding a place for that in any RV I've owned. I certainly wouldn't be bringing it in and out of the rig. So assuming you carry it inside your rig, how will you use the device's 30 A outlet--bring your shore power cord in through a window? This doesn't sound practical.
The Ecoflow battery pack (I wish they'd stop calling these things "solar generators," since they are neither solar nor generators) has a charger, inverter, and battery monitor. But your motorhome already has all those things. If you need more storage capacity, why not just add more batteries to your existing system? $6,099.00 (the price of the Ecoflow battery pack) will buy you a lot of LiFePO4 batteries... without making you pay for items you already have. And you'll have a setup that is integrated and works together, rather than managing separate systems.
That Ecoflow battery pack weighs 84 pounds and is more than two cubic feet in bulk. I'd have trouble finding a place for that in any RV I've owned,
Your motorhome already has a charger, inverter, battery monitor, etc. If all you need is more storage capacity, why not just add more batteries to your existing system? $6,099.00 (the price of the Ecoflow battery pack) will buy you a lot of LiFePO4 batteries... without making you pay for items you already have.
Muhammad's Mid-Bath has the perfect place for two more batteries, under the refrigerator, next to the existing batteries.
400-amp hours of lithium battery will cover any electrical needs for days and will not intrude into the coach.
The Ecoflow battery is more appropriate for home use, IMO.
Larry
"Muhammad's Mid-Bath has the perfect place for two more batteries, under the refrigerator, next to the existing batteries."
At one time I actually had three added batteries under there in my midbath. It's an ideal location.
Andy and Larry you have a point. I am not refreshing right now and each time I check components are becoming smaller, cheaper and lighter.
Let say what Kent suggested and I abuse existing AGM batteries and am ready to move to lithium in a year or two … Each 100ah lithium battery cost around 1K, then I will need a faster converter and charger and then need to schedule an appointment and wait … I am sure few more components and labor with current rate of inflation would be 8-9K.
For now it is just an academic exercise but this package give much more functionality and capacity compared to David who spent more then twice the price. Hopefully size will get smaller and right now they are guaranteeing 7-8 K charge discharge cycles and a very very very quick recharging capabilities. If I can just bring 30 amp plug from the battery compartment and plug it in all the wiring in LD will continue to work as normal when shore power is plugged in. As for setup don’t you think it is simple to get wires from current slow converter/charger and reroute it to these type of systems?
Let’s take a next logical step and perhaps we can move to electric stoves and refrigerator. With this much battery power and quick recharge it is possible. Removing the propane will simplify life little better. More expensive motorhomes are doing it with customized solution we have it in front of us ….
I am sure I will come back to this topic again … paying for labor and waiting for months is not sustainable.
Not a conventional way of doing but when we have shortage of skilled labor and these things can be mass produced in China why we should not benefit from cheap labor.
I do not want to put too much time right now as I might start abusing AGM batteries now that I know within 6K I can have a pretty nice system and I am sure next time it will be more powerful, cheaper and will come with 5 year warrenty instead of 3 years.
Thanks for pondering on my dump suggestions….
Kristin,
A generic design which can work for 90% of folks will be cheaper. Components are cheaper as they are bought and assembled in mass production and if designed is tested properly integrating the components is not a very skilled labor. A box I showed this morning is about 6K and if my memory is correct it was more then 400ah latest lithium batteries which they guarantee 7k to 8k charge discharge cycle means I don’t have to change it in my life span. Then we have to pay somebody to help us select charger, inverter, etc and of course time consuming installation. This box will need to be put at right place and if size and weight continue to reduce with current rate it will not be an issue in near future. We do need to move wires from current charger to this box but work involved in very little compared to refresh install. If I can charge 400+ah batteries 90% with in an hour or two of generator or driving why will I invest in solar …. Just throwing ideas for this team to ponder and we as team can benefit when time come to refresh the technology.
Regards
Well, I'm glad I had "customized install" so I could get exactly what I wanted from a capable person, instead of "streamed line labor", whatever that is, but even that probably wouldn't be cheap... expertise costs, as does using heavier gauge wire. YMMV.
EF ECOFLOW DELTA Pro Portable Home Battery, Expandable Portable Power Station, 3.6kWh (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MVJP7MV/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?ie=UTF8&tag=scmcldo-20&th=1)
Am I misreading things or doing the calculations wrong, the output is 3600 watts at 120 volts, which comes out to be a tiny 30Ah, if so seems terribly expensive, 99 lbs and $3600. I did see a review online that stated it has 300Ah, so my calculation must be off by a factor of 10. Compare to $1000 for a 100Ah lithium battery, 28lbs. An equivalent AGM weighs 60lbs.
Is what I’m having installed expensive, yes, in the sense that half the cost is labor. Can’t help the labor expense as I cannot do the work myself (no facility to do it at home). Plus I value a job well done, I want to drive off knowing my power system was installed/integrated right by experts, that I can rely on the quality of work.
I am looking to maximize boondocking power in my TK. I am maximizing solar (680 watts) and swapping in three 100Ah lithium batteries for the existing two AGMs, saving 30lbs, without needing to find a new space to place batteries. Since you can’t effectively use all the Ah with an AGM, going from a pair of AGMs to three lithium is increasing my useable power by a factor of six.
A TK is already short on free space, this build gives me 4x solar generation and 6x useable power, without taking up anymore space inside, and a very slight increase in weight, maybe 100lbs.
"I did see a review online that stated it has 300Ah, so my calculation must be off by a factor of 10."
I don't think so. 3,600 watt hours divided by 120 V equals 30 amp hours at 120 V... or 300 amp hours at 12 VDC, which is what the reviewer you quoted was thinking of.
I'm skeptical that it can be fully charged in 90 minutes from a Lazy Daze's generator. The product description says "Charge at over 35,000 level 2 EV stations across the U.S. Fast charge in under 1.7hrs." But a level 2 charging station requires a 240 V power source, which a Lazy Daze can't provide. Charging via 120 VAC is going to be much slower.
Dave,
We are going in wrong direction. I did not mean to say you paid more and sorry if my message conveyed this notion ..... Open discussion about technology trend and how we can benefit as group.
As for Ah number .... power is conveyed in Watt. This perticular system is advertised as 7.2KW which is 7200W. No matter what voltage we get the power output will stay at 7200W. If applience is 12V, we can withdraw (7200/12=) 600 ampear for one hour (for 12 volt battery term this would be 600ah). If we ignore the overhead of inverter and use 120 volt appliences we can withdraw 7200/120=60amp for one hour. Since battery is 12V we usually talk ampear withdrawal at 12 volts.
Again sorry if my original message did not come out correctly it was not personal ....
Regards,
EF ECOFLOW DELTA Pro Portable Home Battery, Expandable Portable Power Station, 3.6kWh (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MVJP7MV/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?ie=UTF8&tag=scmcldo-20&th=1)
Am I misreading things or doing the calculations wrong, the output is 3600 watts at 120 volts, which comes out to be a tiny 30Ah, if so seems terribly expensive, 99 lbs and $3600. I did see a review online that stated it has 300Ah, so my calculation must be off by a factor of 10. Compare to $1000 for a 100Ah lithium battery, 28lbs. An equivalent AGM weighs 60lbs.
Is what I’m having installed expensive, yes, in the sense that half the cost is labor. Can’t help the labor expense as I cannot do the work myself (no facility to do it at home). Plus I value a job well done, I want to drive off knowing my power system was installed/integrated right by experts, that I can rely on the quality of work.
I am looking to maximize boondocking power in my TK. I am maximizing solar (680 watts) and swapping in three 100Ah lithium batteries for the existing two AGMs, saving 30lbs, without needing to find a new space to place batteries. Since you can’t effectively use all the Ah with an AGM, going from a pair of AGMs to three lithium is increasing my useable power by a factor of six.
A TK is already short on free space, this build gives me 4x solar generation and 6x useable power, without taking up anymore space inside, and a very slight increase in weight, maybe 100lbs.
Great point Andy about charge timing and this was the input I was looking for ... technology changing reapidly and hope we will benefit. Perhaps not 1.5 hour but even with driving and generator I think it is a big improvement with other Lithium systems I have seen.
As for 300ah, link I post was set of two unites of 3.6KW to bring it to 7.2KW .... perhaps review was specific for 3.6KW. Joining the unites reduce the cost due to one converter/charger, inverter and other components. If you see the web page I mentioned (I will post it again) it has 12.5KW system as well with unite price of 100ah lower (and 400 coupon is additional :-)) Amazon.com : EF ECOFLOW DELTA Pro 12.5KWh/3600W AC Output Home Backup Power... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09W9KH6LY/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?ie=UTF8&tag=scmcldo-20&th=1)
Edit: I am seeing two numbers 7.2kw/3.6kw ... if 7.2KW is just maximum output of short period of time (I doubt this is what it means, they may want to convey each unit is 3.6KW), then this is 300 ah system which is not bad at all either.
Regards,
"I did see a review online that stated it has 300Ah, so my calculation must be off by a factor of 10."
I don't think so. 3,600 watt hours divided by 120 V equals 30 amp hours at 120 V... or 300 amp hours at 12 VDC, which is what the reviewer you quoted was thinking of.
I'm skeptical that it can be fully charged in 90 minutes from a Lazy Daze's generator. The product description says "Charge at over 35,000 level 2 EV stations across the U.S. Fast charge in under 1.7hrs." But a level 2 charging station requires a 240 V power source, which a Lazy Daze can't provide. Charging via 120 VAC is going to be much slower.
Hi folks,
Just thought I’d chime in here for a second. Plenty of info to digest and all very interesting.
When my system was installed at AM my total costs was around $18,000. My budget went from a moderate upgrade to where it is now. Plenty of storage, lots of solar (including the portable 230 watt panels). Like they say, “I spared no expense”.
Here is a breakdown of overall cost of the upgrade. Note that AM gave me a 3% cost break for payment with a check. Actual parts cost (without combiner box, easy start, & cables) was $12,200.
Labor costs $5800 very nearly 1/2 the cost of the parts as Larry stated. At $130 an hour for labor for the better part of 3.5 days that’s about 45 hours of actual labor. Pretty reasonable for what they managed to accomplish. I dropped my RB off Monday before noon and picked it up Friday before 2 pm.
I had daily updates from AM Solar with inquiries about any desired changes and their suggestions.
Charging time with 800 watts of solar and five 100 amp hour BattleBorns. With full sun and batteries at 80%, I generally get fully charged by 12:30 to 1:30 pm. Using the generator and batteries at 60% I am fully charged in 1.5 hours (give or take a few minutes). Overall things charge very quickly.
Note: I added a Victron 100 amp controller to run the charging system and have room for the portable panel and a possible panel addition on the roof.
All in all the actual costs of parts alone wasn’t inexpensive. The labor cost per hour were very reasonable. Costs have increased since the install but that’s just the way it goes. My time running around the area including the Oregon coast was unforgettable and a treasured experience.
Just a thought.
Kent
"I dropped my RB off Monday before noon and picked it up Friday before 2 pm."
And in this week between is when you went to the coast? That had to have cost something, did you include those expenditures?
When I had work done at AM Solar, on two separate occasions, they allowed me to spend the night behind the building with power and water plus a full toilet/bath facility at my disposal. ;D ;)
Steve,
AM Solar would have let me do the same but would have added 25% to the cost of the build. They claimed that delays in prep time for our nightly use and their morning set up was their logic. I should have dropped your name. But who knows, they may have charged me more to make up for what they didn’t charge you.
Regardless, it made sense to save that $ for exploration. I couldn’t imagine sitting around their shop twiddling my thumbs for the duration of the build 😵💫.
My sister had joined me on this adventure. So with that we split the cost for an Enterprise car, hotel and dinners for our treks around the area. I paid for LD fuel costs up and back but considered that part of a Northern Exposure journey.
All-In-All it all worked out.
Kent
Just one more thing. I’d like to thank Lazy Bones-Steve for his input on AM Solar. If not for his experience, I would have stayed local to home. Glad I took the drive up north.
Also, thanks Steve for the Tillamook Creamy suggestion. Took the tour and visited a couple of mega stores in the area. Even found a Zane Grey novel that I hadn’t read. Always a favorite.
Kent
"AM Solar would have let me do the same but would have added 25% to the cost of the build."
Sounds to me like they were blowing smoke! It was for their convenience, not yours.
AM Solar was founded and operated by (can't remember the names) a husband and wife team who were avid RVers themselves. After several years they were looking for retirement. So they rubbed heads with their employees and an agreement was made to sell the business to the staff, and that's who you are dealing with now.
Back then the customer was always first. But lately the almighty dollar comes out on top! ::)
AM Solar would have let me do the same but would have added 25% to the cost of the build. They claimed that delays in prep time for our nightly use and their morning setup was their logic.
Absolutely the truth.
Years ago when I worked on LDs in my driveway, I would tell owners who were having major work done, that it would take longer and cost more if they were planning on staying in their LD. Why?, for the same reason AM Solar gives.
It could take an hour or more to button the rig temporarily back together each evening only to undo it in the morning. Having to do this each day made the job longer and limited how many productive hours I could work a day. It's similar to living in a house while it is undergoing a major renovation.
I wouldn't take on more complex projects if the owner wanted to stay with the rig. Bigger projects like Kent's or Dave's would have fallen into this category.
Larry
I wouldn't take on more complex projects if the owner wanted to stay with the rig. Bigger projects like Kent's or Dave's would have fallen into this category.
Yep, found a place in town for $100 a night, AM Solar would cost an extra hour each day if I stayed in the rig, so a hotel saves money.
"AM Solar was founded and operated by (can't remember the names) a husband and wife team who were avid RVers themselves. After several years they were looking for retirement. So they rubbed heads with their employees and an agreement was made to sell the business to the staff, and that's who you are dealing with now."
Greg and Deb Holder were the original owners. We had a full-up system installed in 2009 at a cost of $7000.00, which included a no-cost, one-night's stay outside of the very nice restroom described above.
Some years later, when we ordered a small part of some sort, Deb included a handful of the little wrapped candies from WINCO that she always kept stocked in their very nice waiting room, complete with mood lighting and a place to snooze.
Completely off topic - Deb's was the first rain chain I ever saw, and it was fascinating, I thought! ;-> She also introduced us to a lovely massage unit called nukkles® Back Rub!
An experience like no other business has ever provided. Sounds like it is much more commercial now.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Greg & Deb..., that's the pair I was trying to remember! Yes Judie, Deb was always accommodating, spreading her knowledge far and wide wherever it did the most good.
One thing I remember her telling me was if I needed one or more nights of cheap RV camping/parking I should go to River Valley Center in Eugene, where, if I spoke kindly to their security personnel, I could get a permit to park right at the rivers edge. I've spent as many as three nights there, totally quiet and mostly dark yet with the added blessing of a roving security patrol. ;D
River Valley Center, Eugene, OR at DuckDuckGo (https://duckduckgo.com/River%20Valley%20Center,%20Eugene,%20OR?ia=web&iaxm=places)
Back from my solar upgrade at AM Solar in Eugene.
Cost came in at $20,000, two thousand more than the estimate, which was fine since they installed an extra 170 watt panel, extra 100Ah lithium battery, and a larger display. That’s with the 2% discount for cash (check).
Only one minor issue, a cable was misrouted (circled in green) which disconnected when the drawer was pushed in. Noticed it before I left, so it was a simple reroute while I was still there.
Of course the next three days in the Eugene area was overcast and rainy, hardly the best timing to confirm everything is working, panel wise, so decided to move south on Sunday to sunny Northern California, where I confirmed all five panels are working just fine
So nice to have fridge running on electricity on travel days and locations with decent sun. Or using the microwave, coffee maker, etc without having to turn on the generator. Even can run the house AC for a couple hours on batteries, even longer while driving.
Did lose half the large passenger side bay in the back to the four batteries and 3000 watt inverter, while gaining a hiking boot and bike accessories bay where the house batteries were.
Seriously tempted to remove the Onan generator, as it’s really just a monthly expense/obligation to exercise it, not to mention the weight. In my previous 20 weeks with rentals, only used the generator once, in southern Utah to run the AC while driving, something my current setup could handle without a sweat. Will see how I feel after three months on the road this summer, if I run into any situations where I need the generator.
Drone’s eye view of the roof before and after.
(Yes, I didn’t park well as I had some shading, but was too lazy to land the drone and move a couple feet)
Thanks for sharing the rooftop photos, Dave. It looks as if your TK is maxed out with solar panels now!
Edit: Trying to remember the exterior compartment locations on the TK, are the new batteries on the passenger or driver side?
"Seriously tempted to remove the Onan generator, as it’s really just a monthly expense/obligation to exercise it, not to mention the weight. In my previous 20 weeks with rentals, only used the generator once, in southern Utah to run the AC while driving, something my current setup could handle without a sweat. Will see how I feel after three months on the road this summer, if I run into any situations where I need the generator."
Two reasons to keep the generator (if it were my decision): Resell value- a new owner might want that; and, just my love/obsession of redundancy- what if the solar system has an issue, or if in a cloudy location for days on end? I don't see either the maintenance costs or weight of the generator as being big issues. Do you need the extra CCC?
Resell value- a new owner might want that; and, just my love/obsession of redundancy- what if the solar system has an issue, or if in a cloudy location for days on end?
Greg… I’m really not picking on you but your comment made me chortle this morning. I’m envisioning planets spinning out of orbit and flying off into deep space. Just the weird way my brain works 😉
- John
Thanks for sharing the rooftop photos, Dave. It looks as if your TK is maxed out with solar panels now!
Edit: Trying to remember the exterior compartment locations on the TK, are the new batteries on the passenger or driver side?
Two reasons to keep the generator (if it were my decision): Resell value- a new owner might want that; and, just my love/obsession of redundancy- what if the solar system has an issue, or if in a cloudy location for days on end? I don't see either the maintenance costs or weight of the generator as being big issues. Do you need the extra CCC?
Yes, 850 Watts on the roof now.
New batteries are in the rear passenger side compartment, along with the inverter.
As to the generator, as I mentioned all I see is maintenance headaches, running it once a month under load, extra engine that requires oil changes, and frankly it’s a noisy beast, I love using 120v without cranking it up. I don’t hesitate to use the microwave at a moment’s notice, and fire up my Nespresso at 7am without cranking up the generator.
I’d rather have another four lithium in place of the generator, extending the reserves where clouds are an issue.
As for redundancy, already have 130amp alternator from the engine itself for endless cloudy days. If that’s not enough, I can upgrade the alternator to 300+ amps.
Not one to give priority to a future owner over my needs, but I would think a 800ah battery bank, with a large alternator, 3000 watt inverter, and 850 watts solar would be more appealing than minimal solar Laze Daze dependent upon the generator for every 120v application.
I would never consider removing the generator without the upgrade I did. But then I spent a pretty penny for a system that should boondock very well, YMMV.
Good catch, John. Guess I should have said solar charging system instead! 🤔
Dave,
Congratulations on your AMSolar installation.
In regards to generator removal, cloudy days happen. After 3-4 days under the trees and cloud cover my 500 aHr batts can easily go down to 40-60% with no sunny days on the horizon.
In the past prior to my upgrade, I’ve used my LD engine in an attempt to bring my old AGM batts up to full charge. While my ‘15 RB has (I believe) a less robust alternator, I have come to the personal conclusion that the generator of the rig can do a fine job bringing my current lithium batts up to charge in under 1 1/2 hours. This allows my engine to relax and be ready for pulling the LD down the road.
Personally, I’ve not had a issue exercising the generator and use that time to enjoy the rig while parked at home. It’s also a useful backup source of power if the grid goes down.
Enjoy your new power center. A little more independence is a good thing.
Kent
Thanks Kent!
Were my rig stored at home, I could see the value in having a backup power source, and exercising the generator would be trivial.
Until next spring, it will be stored a hours drive away. The year after, it will be stored 15 hours away. Yes, I’ll have to have someone run the engine frequently too. Just seems like nothing but a headache to keep the generator in running condition for a potential next buyer.
This is just thinking out loud, heading out for 2-4 months in a couple weeks, won’t seriously consider pulling the generator until I get back from real world usage.
"It’s also a useful backup source of power if the grid goes down."
Ah yes, the old 'Lifeboat' concept, before the gauge reaches ¾ empty... a cause for fewer sleepless nights!
Carefully consider your future camping.
I've been in a number of desirable places in the east where I had solid tree cover and no electric hookups (Acadia NP, Door County WI, Great Smoky Mtn NP).
Generator removal gains some space and some carrying capacity, but you night find that you don't need those after all.
I use our RV generator at least once a year to keep the house fridge running during power outages.
Rich
Carefully consider your future camping.
I've been in a number of desirable places in the east where I had solid tree cover and no electric hookups (Acadia NP, Door County WI, Great Smoky Mtn NP).
Number of full shade camping spots will be tracked.
Already had two such sites in the four nights since the upgrade.
Given I never expect to have a toad, I will rarely be immobile for more than a few days, and I now have 4x battery capacity for shady days.
Removing the generator and then increasing the lithium bank should not significantly decrease the resale value. This isn’t much of interest to you since you intend on keeping your rig for the long haul. The removed generator can be put into storage, if desired.
For those who park their LDs at home, having a generator isn’t a bad idea.
Don’t discount a future toad, it increased our travel enjoyment, most toad owners will tell you the same.
Larry
Don’t discount a future toad, it increased our travel enjoyment, most toad owners will tell you the same.
Haven’t completely dismissed it, will reevaluate this fall.
My fantasy would be to tow my Toyota MR2 Spyder convertible, a manual transmission and 2200lbs
Don’t discount a future toad, it increased our travel enjoyment, most toad owners will tell you the same.
We did not tow with the 1985 TK and found it very limiting. Our desire now when traveling is to go to an area and explore the area. Hiking or biking only gets you so far. So, even before buying Nocona, we purchased a 2015 Subaru Forester with manual transmission in anticipation of future towing. Yes, some people rent cars or take an Uber and such and it works for them so that is an option but we didn’t want to go that route.
Our first time towing was the trip last year to NW Arkansas and what a difference it makes to have that freedom to explore an area! Dave, when you take your summer trip, think about things you could be doing if you had a toad.