A few things I like better with our 27' 2021 MB over our former 23.5' 1995 TK.
The transmission and motor. The new 6 speed coupled with the new 7.3L V8 is so nice. I feel so much more in control especially when towing.
A built in surge protector, propane leak detector, and smoke detector.
A tire pressure monitoring system built-in.
Solar that also charges the chassis battery when the house batteries are topped off.
Larger bathroom.
Larger capacity (water, holding tanks, and propane).
Both are great rigs but the upgrades and latest technology in the new one are so nice.
Yep, I feel the same about upgrading from a 1985 TK to a 2017 MB. It's a world of difference, isn't it!? I like your photo of the two LD's!
Thank you for sharing; this is helpful information know.
This topic complements my previous post, Advice on problems or dislikes, from 2020.
Hopefully, the quality of construction will continue to remain very high when the production of new builds resumes.
Hopefully, the quality of construction will continue to remain very high when the production of new builds resumes.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new LD.
From a source that knows. The Mothership has no bare cutaways in the yard and much of the staff has been laid off.
It doesn't look good.
Larry
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new LD.
From a source that knows. The Mothership has no bare cutaways in the yard and much of the staff has been laid off. It doesn't look good.
That’s just about the worse RV news or speculation I’ve heard in a long time. Certainly makes my RV troubles seem trivial. Maybe putting my head in the sand is a solution?
That’s just about the worse RV news or speculation I’ve heard in a long time. Certainly makes my RV troubles seem trivial. Maybe putting my head in the sand is a solution?
The lack of available cutaways and the general worldwide supply-chain issues have added to LD's problems in manufacturing new units. War in Ukraine doesn't help improve things.
Interesting times we live in.
Larry
Not encouraging news, but not surprising. No chassis to build on, and likely only speculation on when chassis might be available doesn’t offer much hope that the brand can continue. :(
I agree with the "interesting times we live in" comment. The cost of living increases may continue to get out of control.
Well, "putting my head in the sand" may work if the LD staff has been laid off due to covid-related supply chain issues.
I will wait and see what happens and hope for the opportunity to purchase a new build.
FYI -- looks like Ford E-Series have been falling for years
https://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-motor-company-sales-numbers/ford-sales-numbers/ford-e-series-sales-numbers/
glen
The e-series decline, pre-chip shortage, was driven by fuel economy (CAFE) standards. Ford did invest substantially in the 2021 engine/transmission upgrade (also shared with trucks, of course) which gave a lot of us hope that the e450 chassis would continue for heavier load applications (like RVs).
Once the chip shortage hit, all vehicle manufacturers are prioritizing their highest profit vehicles. A F450 Platinum is way more profitable for both Ford and the dealers than a bare e450 cutaway.
We all understand that LazyDaze can't make RVs if they can get cutaways. Unfortunately, that probably won't change for a while.
Rich
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new LD.
From a source that knows. The Mothership has no bare cutaways in the yard and much of the staff has been laid off.
It doesn't look good.
Yikes, that’s devastating news!
I think there should be hope for the E450 chassis cabs and strip chassis for the RV industry. Ford has a dominant position in this RV market. Once the chip shortages are relieved, Ford has to continue the products in the Ohio Assembly Plant per Ford-UAW labor agreement. The small amount of 650 and 750 produced in there are insufficient to feed that plant, it needs sizable volumes like those specialty Superduty trucks, chassis cabs, and strip chassis for the long term well beings for Ford medium duty truck business. The Kentucky Truck Plant is dedicated for the high volume Ford F250s. The F350 and F450 volumes are much lower and share a lot more common parts with E350 and E450, therefore they are much better to be build in the Ohio plant. When there is no more chip shortage Ford will squeeze out every possible units from that plant.
The real question is will the mother-ship survives long enough to see the happy days of no more chip shortage or supply chain disruptions, I think. I certainly hope so and pray for them.
FYI -- looks like Ford E-Series have been falling for years
https://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-motor-company-sales-numbers/ford-sales-numbers/ford-e-series-sales-numbers/
glen
The reason E series volume dropped from 2015 was Ford stopped the E series vans at that time and replaced them with the Transit, only chassis cabs (cutaways) are counted in the later years.
great list of items which I'm glad I upgraded on our '94, so almost to par with a '21!
while the mother ship doesn't have cutaways, why not just adapt and start making pull trailers which don't depend on a Ford chasis? Not sure if trailer chasis are out of stock too, but they do seem easier to build and no chips are required...
great list of items which I'm glad I upgraded on our '94, so almost to par with a '21!
while the mother ship doesn't have cutaways, why not just adapt and start making pull trailers which don't depend on a Ford chassis? Not sure if trailer chassis are out of stock too, but they do seem easier to build and no chips are required...
It's complicated, consuming lots of time and money to design a completely new RV, LD has done it in the past a few times, but I seriously doubt Steve would be willing to start over again. He isn't a young man and no one working for him has the technical design skills.
Larry
I agree, Larry. I don't think there has been any succession planning at Lazy Daze and I'm afraid the end may be near. If so, my hope is they will focus on their repair business going forward.
Who knows what Steve’s plans are, but he’s worked very hard for a long time and is sitting on a large piece of real estate that could fund a very nice retirement. Of course, for a workaholic, retirement might not be in the cards. We’ll just have to wait and see. — Jon
Who knows what Steve’s plans are, but he’s worked very hard for a long time and is sitting on a large piece of real estate that could fund a very nice retirement. Of course, for a workaholic, retirement might not be in the cards. We’ll just have to wait and see. — Jon
My plan is to hope, wait and see.
I would keep my eye out for a good used one how many years have gone by already time is to short.
Jody
I would keep my eye out for a good used one how many years have gone by already time is to short.
Jody
I agree; however, newer good-used LDs are tough to find.
I want to thank TEDEBOY for the original list of upgraded items he shared on his newer LD.
After an extended time on the infamous waiting list and age slowing me down a bit, I've decided to order a Winnebago Travato and give it a try. The price is a little painful but I think it will fill my needs as my active years slowly wind down. I think Winnebago, and others , have done a good job with this Dodge Ram van. Just have to make a "few" adjustments to live in this smaller space. I'm not going with their big, expensive lithium battery because I think I can do fine without it. My significant other will be willing to take over as relief driver which is a major issue. So, that appears to be my future as I fade into the sunset. If you notice an older gentleman in a class B honking at your LD, don't be concerned. It's just me.
Frank
After an extended time on the infamous waiting list and age slowing me down a bit, I've decided to order a Winnebago Travato and give it a try. The price is a little painful but I think it will fill my needs as my active years slowly wind down.
The Travato does look nice once you get beyond the $153K price. I agree, the solar/lithium option is way too pricey at an extra $33K.
Would have been in your shoes too had I not been lucky finding my 2017 TK.
After an extended time on the infamous waiting list and age slowing me down a bit, I've decided to order a Winnebago Travato and give it a try. The price is a little painful but I think it will fill my needs as my active years slowly wind down.
Frank…I seriously doubt you’re alone in your decision. Please consider updating the LDO Forum with pictures and comments.
Safe travels.
plan B?
Born Free do not make motorhome any more but I think they still make the truck camper and what I hear and saw in few campgrounds they are keeping the quality.
Coach house not sure how they are pricing now but when I bought LD they were at least 20-25% more but then it reflect on their one piece coach shell and perhaps more marine grade components or perhaps just market hype.
How about Tiger? their design have issue going from front to back but I think quality is comparable or better then LD but of course price is high but then you will get four wheel drive and more ground clearence.
Just giving ideas instead of just waiting and hoping.
My plan is to hope, wait and see.
Not to make light of the situation but hopefully to bring a smile while you're waiting. I think she is singing about a Lazy Daze? :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAoOeXC2Sg
After an extended time on the infamous waiting list and age slowing me down a bit, I've decided to order a Winnebago Travato and give it a try.
Frank
Frank, we also ended up with a Travato, but via a slightly more circuitous route. We sold our Midbath to buy a 35 foot Tiffin Class A because we were doing mission work at the time and staying several weeks at the same place. Having the extra room, as well as having a place where the whole team could meet was the primary reason for the change. Then, while working at a children's home, I came down with 1 of 3 autoimmune disorders (the other 2 followed a few months later) and ended our mission work. Joyce didn't like driving the Class A (not really a lot of fun, as you can imagine). Our solution was to trade the class A in and get the Travato, which would still allow us to travel and it's _really_ easy to drive. There will be compromises, as you would expect. Ours is the K model and has a generator. We didn't want the lithium batteries at the time either, especially for the price. Ours is a 2020 on a 2019 chassis. At the time, no one was paying list price for one. Hopefully, that's still the case. If we can answer any questions, let us know.
Ken
Former 2009 MB
I take it you're reasonably happy with it. Thanks - I may have some questions once I get it in late June. Frank
Yes, reasonably happy. But, it definitely is not a LD. Two things I would note for you when you take delivery.
1) Ours came with XM radio (I think... maybe Sirius) with supposedly a 1 year free subscription. XM claimed that we were not the "original purchaser" (Winnebago obviously had to buy it first) so did not honor the 1 free year. We dropped that like a lead balloon when XM asked us to pay for a subscription.
2) The on-board GPS is a Tom-Tom brand. It's OK, but you have to pay to upgrade the maps and it can _NOT_ be used while in motion. So, If Joyce is driving and I want to change the destination, it can't be done. (We name our GPSs... that one is Miss Informed). So, we continue to use our stand alone Garmin (Miss Direction), which has free map updates. Just say'n. You may really like Tom-Tom GPSs. I've always wondered if the dealer could override the "in motion" lockout. That would make it much more usable for us.
Ken
Well yes; Even cars won't let the passenger reprogram the GPS while you are in motion. But they will let you talk on the phone, and you can look at the GPS screen, but my newest car won't even let me direct it by voice. Usually I just want it to stop 'guiding' me when it is hopelessly lost, or I've decided to stop short of its programmed goal. I'm not a fan of built in GPS's since they often can't be upgraded with newer maps, even if you were willing to pay the exorbitant charges from a dealer.
Did you explain to SiriusXM that of course you were the original purchaser. If you got an upgraded radio from (Walmart, Crutchfield, et. al.) an installer that they aren't the original purchaser either. I have XM on two of my cars and a Roadie that has a lifetime free subscription (bet they regret that!) for the motorhome or my other cars. I've always had good service from the reps at XM. RonB
Ron, I agree with your criticism of built-in navigation systems. The ones I've seen (in several late-model Subarus and Ford trucks) have been notably inferior to either Apple's CarPlay or Google's Android Auto. I can't speak from experience with the Google product, but I use CarPlay frequently, and it responds well to voice commands, allowing rerouting while driving and obeying the spoken command "Cancel route." If you haven't tried one of these smartphone-based navigation systems, you might want to give it a whirl.
The built-in nav systems (at least the ones I've seen) do have one advantage: their map databases are self-contained, and don't require an internet connection. On rare occasions when I've been driving in an area with no cell signal and Apple Maps can no longer display my location on a map, I've resorted to the car's nav system, because its maps are always there. But I can count those occasions on my thumbs. :-)
Well yes; Even cars won't let the passenger reprogram the GPS while you are in motion. But they will let you talk on the phone, and you can look at the GPS screen, but my newest car won't even let me direct it by voice. Usually I just want it to stop 'guiding' me when it is hopelessly lost, or I've decided to stop short of its programmed goal. I'm not a fan of built in GPS's since they often can't be upgraded with newer maps, even if you were willing to pay the exorbitant charges from a dealer.
Did you explain to SiriusXM that of course you were the original purchaser. If you got an upgraded radio from (Walmart, Crutchfield, et. al.) an installer that they aren't the original purchaser either. I have XM on two of my cars and a Roadie that has a lifetime free subscription (bet they regret that!) for the motorhome or my other cars. I've always had good service from the reps at XM. RonB
Yep. Unfortunately, it appeared their ears were in deaf mode. ;)
Ken
After an extended time on the infamous waiting list and age slowing me down a bit, I've decided to order a Winnebago Travato and give it a try. The price is a little painful but I think it will fill my needs as my active years slowly wind down. I think Winnebago, and others , have done a good job with this Dodge Ram van. Just have to make a "few" adjustments to live in this smaller space. I'm not going with their big, expensive lithium battery because I think I can do fine without it. My significant other will be willing to take over as relief driver which is a major issue. So, that appears to be my future as I fade into the sunset. If you notice an older gentleman in a class B honking at your LD, don't be concerned. It's just me.
Frank
One considerable caution would be the O.C.C.C. of the Travato. An overweight rig is straightforward to obtain but very dangerous to operate.
One considerable caution would be the O.C.C.C. of the Travato. An overweight rig is straightforward to obtain but very dangerous to operate.
Frank, these folks have had a couple of Travatos and have made major refinements to them: Technomadia - Technology Enabled Nomads (https://www.technomadia.com)
Chris
plan B?
How about Tiger? their design have issue going from front to back but I think quality is comparable or better then LD but of course price is high but then you will get four wheel drive and more ground clearence.
Besides the website, A Breed Apart - Tiger Adventure Vehicles (https://www.tigervehicles.com), does anyone have more knowledge of Tiger Class C RVs?
Besides the website, A Breed Apart - Tiger Adventure Vehicles (https://www.tigervehicles.com), does anyone have any more knowledge of Tiger Class C RVs?
Well, here is somewhat of an answer:
https://www.rvtravel.com/tiger-adventure-vehicles-the-bengal/
Before I knew about the Lazy Daze units, I happened upon a Sandtana (https://toyotasandtana.wordpress.com/) in the late 70's, and that was it for me! I knew from that moment on that an RV was going to be in my life forever. It seemed just like having a playhouse all to oneself that was portable. What more could a girl want out of life? ;->
I had a 1977 full-sized GMC Jimmy, and in Colorado there was a company who made a Chalet to slide into the back after having removed the fiberglass back part. Long story short - I never managed to get one. Boo-hoo!
Fast forward over a lot of memories and anguish . . . I collected the literature for about dozens of rigs, and we owned a 1978 Volkswagen Campmobile and a 1987 Volkswagen Westfalia before finding out about the Adventurewagens, and then the plum of all - the Lazy Daze. Swoon!
Decades later, there are still some literature bits that I collected from that era in my file drawer - The Tiger, Adverturewagen, Sportsmobile, and Lazy Daze brochures all sleep happily in there. I keep them for nostalgia's sake!
The Tiger has evolved quite a lot over these decades, and is so very sleek now. I dread to think of the cost of a new one at this point.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Before I knew about the Lazy Daze units, I happened upon a Sandtana (https://toyotasandtana.wordpress.com/) in the late 70's, and that was it for me! I knew from that moment on that an RV was going to be in my life forever. It seemed just like having a playhouse all to oneself that was portable. What more could a girl want out of life? ;->
I had a 1977 full-sized GMC Jimmy, and in Colorado there was a company who made a Chalet to slide into the back after having removed the fiberglass back part. Long story short - I never managed to get one. Boo-hoo!
Fast forward over a lot of memories and anguish . . . I collected the literature for about dozens of rigs, and we owned a 1978 Volkswagen Campmobile and a 1987 Volkswagen Westfalia before finding out about the Adventurewagens, and then the plum of all - the Lazy Daze. Swoon!
Decades later, there are still some literature bits that I collected from that era in my file drawer - The Tiger, Adverturewagen, Sportsmobile, and Lazy Daze brochures all sleep happily in there. I keep them for nostalgia's sake!
The Tiger has evolved quite a lot over these decades, and is so very sleek now. I dread to think of the cost of a new one at this point.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Thank you for the information you provided!
I did a little more research, and here is what I discovered:
The cost is around 160-165K for a new build. Tiger only manufactures one model: Bengals.
If a customer provides the truck (Tiger recommends the Ford F550) the cost would be 100K.
Tiger Adventure Vehicles also retain their value similarly to Lazy Daze.
you can customize to some extent ... for example yuo can dictate if you want propane or just batteries and which type ....
Edit: for me bigger issue was able to get from front seat to back first there is a console in the center and opening from front to back does not work with my back. As for sleepng I will have to go up which was also an issue. We could have made it work but for our need LD was better fit. So far I am not missing not having 4 wheel drive.
And I realize I am promoted to senior member !!!! I need to learn a lot from this group seeing senior with my name on camping site ! Be well
Thank you for the information you provided!
I did a little more research, and here is what I discovered:
The cost is around 160-165K for a new build. Tiger only manufactures one model: Bengals.
If a customer provides the truck (Tiger recommends the Ford F550) the cost would be 100K.
Tiger Adventure Vehicles also retain their value similarly to Lazy Daze.
Muhammad-
Thank you for your response. Perhaps one of the moderators could give me advice:
Should a new post be started with the title, "Tiger Adventure Vehicle Plan B if Lazy Daze decides to stop production?"
Or should we continue to change Tedeboy's original post?
In the past I was advised to start new thread for new topic but starting a thread here for Tiger does not make much sense. You may not get enough information. There is a simlar form for Tiger owners, not as active as this one but very loyal customers. Join ther and in few days you will know more then you want to .... I also spent lot of time talking to the owner of the Tiger company (Proven I guess). I will have no problem working with him only issue I had at that time was that he was part time teaching in Colorado and partime at East coast factory and couple of owners did mention his part time absense impacting the quality. Hope you understand the issue with console between passenger and driver seat and impact it will have going back with a small opening.
Beside looking at Tiger I looked at Coach House better quality but you pay for quality and plus I think profit margin is bit higher for that company. They are targeting specific segment of the market and are happy with their sales. It is not four wheel drive but it is closer to LD compared to Tiger as far as product is concerned. There are more of B+ and you do loose some storage space but I must admit it look better quality product.
Another one I spend looooooot of time was on 24ft Sprinter based SportsMobile ..... beside space issue for months long trip, carrying capacity does not allow enough water and battery. Talking to folks in campground I am happy to be stayed away from Sprinter chasis but this was limite sample. Another issue when I was look few years ago was availability of four wheel drive of 24ft chasis. Line seemed to be longer compared to LD and it was not moving.
Not sure what your use case would be but if you are planning on getting off the paved roads and do not want to pay Global expedition or EarthRoamer price then EarhCruiser is a happy medium. With cabover design off Mistsubishi truck you can get enough space on smaller size.
Good luck
Muhammad-
Thank you for your response. Perhaps one of the moderators could give me advice:
Should a new post be started with the title, "Tiger Adventure Vehicle Plan B if Lazy Daze decides to stop production?"
Or should we continue to change Tedeboy's original post?
FROM: Sam Wingersky
"Thank you for your response. Perhaps one of the moderators could give me advice:
Should a new post be started with the title, "Tiger Adventure Vehicle Plan B if Lazy Daze decides to stop production?"
Or should we continue to change Tedeboy's original post?"
********************************************************************
Regarding a new topic heading for discussion of the Tiger RV . . . it looks like the pertinent information may have already been offered. However, please start a new topic if the Tiger, or other alternative configuration, conversation continues.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Moderator hat = "ON"
has anyone with a later model put their spare tire in the rear though? I feel like that's one of the biggest downsides of a newer LD. I have my back storage full, can't believe some have the spare tire in it. I figured if I get a newer model that would be the first modification I would make.... make 2021 be more 1995
HI Tom; I think only the mid bath has the tire stored in the rear passenger side storage compartment. My '99 TK has the tire stored under the bustle, and so does the 27RB. If I upgrade to a MB, I would put the tire and wheel underneath. Tedeboy has a '21 but I haven't had a chance yet to look at it with my welder friend. Other brands do store it outside underneath, and hoists and such similar to what you would find on pickup trucks are available. RonB
(Sort of swerving back into the original topic)
Or you can mount the spare in front, as I and others have done, freeing up that rear storage bin.
(Sort of swerving back into the original topic)
Sorry about the "rabbit trail," which is mainly my fault.
Or you can mount the spare in front, as I and others have done, freeing up that rear storage bin.
ahhh that's pretty neat!! guess it doesn't interfere much with the airflow to the radiator if everyone is doing it.
with this modification or having the tire go underneath (although weight distribution), I would consider the other mod of having a minisplit on the rear like Thomas did: https://youtu.be/arj2ioF8z9o
ahhh that's pretty neat!! guess it doesn't interfere much with the airflow to the radiator if everyone is doing it.
with this modification or having the tire go underneath (although weight distribution), I would consider the other mod of having a minisplit on the rear like Thomas did: https://youtu.be/arj2ioF8z9o
Very few owners mount the spare tire on the front bumper, besides looking terrible, it will block the radiator airflow, a definite consideration for those who tow. IMO, the Factory spare tire location is the most convenient spot to store it.
It may be possible to hang the spare under the rear floor but it will be tough to install. If a flat occurs, removing the spare will be even more difficult. Try dragging the spare over pavement or ground to get an idea of how hard it will be to move in or out
Installing the spare under the rear floor will significantly decrease the already limited ground clearance.
Not a recommended or practical solution.
Installing a mini-split, that is able to run on battery power overnight will require several lithium batteries, the Twin/Kings have few places to mount extra batteries. See Ron's recent posting on how he upgraded to 400-amp hours of lithium and a large inverter in his Twin/King. His installation was very time consumptive.
If you are thinking of having the batteries and solar upgraded, see Dave Katelman's recent posting on how much his upgrade is costing.
.
There isn't enough available roof space for enough solar panels to recharge the drained batteries in a day. In addition to the solar, many hours of daily generator run time will be required to recharge such a huge battery pack.
Installing a mini-split will be a complicated, expensive project when the electrical side of the project is included.
Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should.
Larry
"Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should."
Aw, one of my favorite sayings, Larry!
Regarding the spare tire storage issue in the MB, I have considered relocating it but the options are few and somewhat complicated, as Larry mentioned. While the extra storage space would be welcomed, I still have more storage in the MB than I ever did in the TK. Figuring out what you really need to bring on a trip and then maximizing space by organizing things is one good solution. I know several of our members (not me so much) are really good at that!
Very few owners mount the spare tire on the front bumper, besides looking terrible, it will block the radiator airflow, a definite consideration for those who tow. IMO, the Factory spare tire location is the most convenient spot to store it.
Not a recommended or practical solution.
Larry
Another consideration is the potential damage that could occur to the undercarriage if the tire were to come loose and bounce around under the rig while driving.
"guess it doesn't interfere much with the airflow to the radiator if everyone is doing it."
Not "everyone" is doing it, but a few of us have. While I held off from front mounting for years due to concerns about blocking airflow and overheating, in practice I found no significant difference in temperature--and this was in all climates including desert and mountains, while towing a Subaru Forester. A friend with a similar setup on an older E350 motorhome (also towing a car) reports the same.
As you can see from the photo, the tire is spaced well ahead of the grill. The mount is very secure, consisting of a frame-mounted 2" front hitch receiver and a tire carrier that fits into it. There's no chance of it coming off. It's not for everybody, but it is a viable solution.
I still have more storage in the MB than I ever did in the TK. Figuring out what you really need to bring on a trip and then maximizing space by organizing things is one good solution. I know several of our members (not me so much) are really good at it!
Still in sloppy adding stuff mode myself. I’m still 2000 pounds under capacity, suspect I will run out of space before capacity in a TK.
Given my expected new solar (850) and battery (400) capacity, an efficient mini split is tempting, but cannot afford to lose more storage.