Lazy Daze Owners' Group

Hasn’t arrived yet, ship date is 11/12-18. Believe it when I see it.

Rather than fight putting one more wire down the roof port I installed another one. Not nearly as well sealed as LD’s but it will work. The antenna will have to be installed and taken down at each location. I think it can be done through the escape hatch.

Was very surprised to see the roof panel is less than 1/8” plywood under the aluminum. The ceiling seems to be closer to 1/8”. Anyhow, thinner than expected.

LD did a better seal job. I used a sink drain stopper to seal the hole as it will have to be opened and closed. Would like to have reinforced it with some PVC but couldn’t find some to match my hole saws and drain stopper so will live with the way it is for awhile. More later.

Harry and All,

I am sure I am not the only one .... LD is working perfectly fine and I will not risk it by making a hole on the roof ...  is there any possibility of putting startlink receiver inside the motorhome perhaps glue it on the windshield somehow or some window? I will also be fine putting it outside while we are parked but I do understand it is a small piece of hardware and keeping it outside may be risky.

Thanks

Adding new holes in the roof is OK as long as it is done right. The Mothership cuts multiple holes in every LD's roof, not to mention poking hundreds of screws through it. Properly sealing the holes is crucial, using a long-lasting, high-performance sealant.
The use of plumbing vents for wire and cable entry is a common way of adding access as long as none of the roof joists are cut or damaged.
The marine world has the same need for thru-hull plumbing and electrical fittings. Marine distributors carry several types of fittings that can be used successfully on LDs.
This fitting, made by Blue Sea, is one of my favorites. Bedded in 3M 5200 FC, it has remained watertight for over 15 years.
Camera mounted on LD | Shown with water proof deck fitting w… | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/1416465334/in/album-72157602095131020/)

Larry

Harry and All,

I am sure I am not the only one .... LD is working perfectly fine and I will not risk it by making a hole on the roof ...  is there any possibility of putting startlink receiver inside the motorhome perhaps glue it on the windshield somehow or some window? I will also be fine putting it outside while we are parked but I do understand it is a small piece of hardware and keeping it outside may be risky.

Starlink at present is a 23” satellite dish that requires a 100 degree unobstructed view of the sky. One hundred degrees is a bunch. Anything mounting inside is impossible. The new flat panel mobile antenna has yet to be released. No one has even seen a picture of it. The present antenna must be removed for travel. Since there is no connector at the antenna the 100ft antenna lead must be removed and opening closed. The plumbing vent is perfect and won’t turn to powder in the sun. Fortunately I didn’t hit any framing.

I intend to put a connector in the 100ft lead to shorten the wiring and be able to use the remainder when placing the antenna on the ground. Just don’t want to cut anything till it works. It won’t be too difficult to thread 100ft of cable through the plumbing vent and remove it a time or two.

Starlink ship date just moved to November 17-23. At least my gasoline furnace is on it’s way.

Larry and Harry,

Obviously we are on different tiers .... I was on bed for rest of the day after winterization in am .... leg muscles do work fine and I can walk for miles (most of the days with pain pump remote control in my pocket) but rest of the body is very weak ....

I saw my wife miserable when she was not able to communicate with kids for days due to cell signals. In 2022 we are planning to be in RV for 9+ months. I want to make it as easier as possible for my wife. I need to find a portable dish or something comparable which I can put outside when we park. I will not mind paying somebody doing the work on motorhome but my yet two encounters to motorhome technician does not give me any comfort or confidence and it was more of anxiety instead of happiness of improvements. We are making Lazy Daze our own by making updates but they are very small and slow. I work on Lazy Daze to have fun and but keep getting reminders of reality on when to stop :-) and please no sympathy at all, I am having time of my life. In less then a year we saw more natural beauty in US then 99% of folks see in their life time ....

Cheers

Starlink in general, and particularly in a RV is still a ways away from being a consumer level service.

Right now it's best for early adopters.  People who enjoy being on the frontiers of technology, with all of the costs and hassles and tinkering that go along with that.

If you're looking for reliable internet that works more often than not, in as many places as possible, cellular is still the best bet. 

I think these folks give solid advice about staying connected while traveling: Internet for RV & Boats - Mobile Internet Resource Center (https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/)

This is what they use: Our Mobile Internet Setup for RV & Boat - Cellular, WiFi & Satellite |... (https://www.technomadia.com/2019/02/our-mobile-internet-setup-for-rv-and-boat-how-weve-kept-online-for-13-years-of-technomadic-travel/)

Rich

Thanks Rich.

My son work for SpaceX and he asked me to wait but then he also told me that service is available for NJ .... I worked for Bell Labs and do understand technology and do not mind taking some chances. I think I do have 7-8 months before I need to move, will see where we stand at that time.

Thanks again for input.

Starlink antenna is now rectangular. Starlink.com listed dimensions as 19” by 12”.

New antenna has a removable cable which will make things easier.

I’m impressed with anyone that worked at Bell Labs. Invented the transistor and the cell phone. Motorola made it work ‘cause the government for monopoly reasons wouldn’t let ATT do it.

Great Harry. I was looking at permanent installation pictures on buildings on their website and failed to pay attention the picture of antenna with a base. Encouraging information and need little more research hearing from folks who use the system the with portable dish/antenna instead of permanent installation.  Will be meeting with my son during Christmas and if he does not have more information I am sure there will be more information on internet very soon or perhaps I will call sales team directly. I hear they are expecting lot of demand and manufacturing the antenna is on the critical path (I thought putting the low orbit satellite would be an issue). I have experience with sister company Tesla for home solar panel/battery system and installation was smooth and system is working for over a year without any hiccup.

Thanks again.

Starlink to arrive Wednesday according to FedEx. Will let you know if it is the round one or the new rectangle one.

It is the round one. Shipping weight 30 lbs.

will be interested hearing your experience .... thx

system ordering page need a physical address, is there a different antenna/dish for mobile/RV and stationary/home use? They are using low orbiting satellites and and I have no idea if they will have enough number of satellites initially to reliably handoff from one satellite to other satellite as we are driving. We do accept cell signal drop offs but satellite service will have higher expectations (user will not care about high orbit and low orbit satellite they will expect reliable service) ... will be interesting to see how long it take to have reliable service.

and did you say 30 lb!?

will be interested hearing your experience .... thx

system ordering page need a physical address, is there a different antenna/dish for mobile/RV and stationary/home use? They are using low orbiting satellites and and I have no idea if they will have enough number of satellites initially to reliably handoff from one satellite to other satellite as we are driving. We do accept cell signal drop offs but satellite service will have higher expectations (user will not care about high orbit and low orbit satellite they will expect reliable service) ... will be interesting to see how long it take to have reliable service.

and did you say 30 lb!?

Mobile antenna is not being sold yet.  Only a moveable antenna and it has drop outs due to not enough satellites.

Thx

We will wait and it is worth it ….

This type of service was out of reach and I feel lucky ….

Starlink Dishy arrived. Use in the LD will be over Christmas so will report at that time.

We have ours onboard. Still haven't found a zip that works where we are (Florida's Emerald Coast). Also requires line of sight...no trees.

We'll report back as well once we get the hook up.

Good luck!

Greetings through Starlink. Looks like 8 amps of 12 volt DC

so you get data connection everywhere? how about connection speed, can you stream videos? power consumption remind me of cell phones of 90s where batteries were the bottlenecks ... i will wait little longer to get mobile antenna but this is not bad for emergency connection, perhaps a 15-30 minute connection can download 24 hour messages. looking closely progress in this area.

Greetings through Starlink. Looks like 8 amps of 12 volt DC

No. Data connection only at one location. Watched Sunday Night Football with no problems. Youtube no problem. The lack of location flexibility is the problem which should improve over the year. If it does not improve you will likely be paying for no service when you move.

With one lithium battery and one regular battery and a generator all is well. It helps to be able to run the generator when you please be it midnight or noon.

l probably will not be able to use it again till March when I return as it is not available where I am going.

Thx

Based on your input, I think I will be better off with multiple phones from different carriers for now.

No. Data connection only at one location. Watched Sunday Night Football with no problems. Youtube no problem. The lack of location flexibility is the problem which should improve over the year. If it does not improve you will likely be paying for no service when you move.

With one lithium battery and one regular battery and a generator all is well. It helps to be able to run the generator when you please be it midnight or noon.

l probably will not be able to use it again till March when I return as it is not available where I am going.

Thx

Based on your input, I think I will be better off with multiple phones from different carriers for now.

Correct

Correct

Or, consider millenicom.com, which offers a router that will switch between Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile, using the one with best signal. The data plans looked good enough, I considered replacing my home internet with the unit. Here's an example:

Purple Plan
From $69.99/month
for 25GB upgradable to 800GB
• Works exclusively with our Skyroam router
• Works simultaneously over all three carriers
• Connects automatically to the strongest signal

50GB was $75, 100GB was $100.

"Or, consider millenicom.com,..."

Are they back again? Should I believe in resurrection? I had them years ago and it worked fairly well. At that time they were exclusively a Verizon reseller. But then they went belly up and forced me elsewhere. We now have a Verizon 'Hot Spot' unlimited for $65mo.   ;D

Yeah, I got that email from Millenicom a couple of days ago. I didn't take it seriously. Here's why.

Quite a few years ago, Millenicom popped up with a fancy, professional-looking website offering a very attractive (for the time) mobile data plan. I and many RVers I knew jumped on that bandwagon. All went well for a couple years, until boom! We were suddenly notified that the service was ending immediately.

It turned out that what was passing itself off as a legitimate wireless reseller was actually a couple of guys at a small private school who were buying data "in bulk" at educational discounts--intended only for students and teachers--and reselling it to non-educational individuals like us RVers. When the carrier (Verizon, as I recall) found out, they shut down the scam, leaving users to scramble for another data plan.

A few years later another school-based group tried the same thing, with the same result. And more recently, an outfit called "Island Wi-Fi" tried reselling unlimited AT&T bandwidth... that turned out to be intended for firefighters, EMTs, and law enforcement people. They were shut down as soon as AT&T got wise, and again, users were left holding the bag.

Now, I don't know whether this outfit that's now calling itself Millenicom is the original group, or just somebody who bought the brand name... but in general my experience with too-good-to-be-true wireless deals is that they are just that. If anybody wants to sign up for this Millenicom deal, I won't say no, but just be aware that it may be shut down without warning.

One legitimate alternative is AT&T's new 100 GB per month/$55 per month data plan--55 cents per gigabyte. It's one of the Technomads' (https://www.technomadia.com) top picks, and they usually know their stuff. I just signed up for that one. If your data needs are smaller, they have a 20 GB per month plan for $300 per year (in advance)--$1.25 per gigabyte.

These plans are not "unlimited"--when you use up your data, they simply stop connecting until the next billing period begins--but I prefer that to the more typical plans that claim to be unlimited, but then throttle you down to unusable speeds, or start hitting you with steep overage charges. At least AT&T is honest about what you get. (If you do use up all your data for the month, you can buy 5 GB "Add-Ons" for ten bucks apiece to get you through.)

AT&T's coverage is not as good as Verizon's, but it has improved quite a bit in the past few years... and as it happens, in some places where I often camp, they actually have a better signal. Both these plans are shown on this page of AT&T's website (https://www.att.com/prepaid/mobile-hotspot-tablet/). (The Technomads' Coverage? app (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coverage/id388815949) for iOS or Android is a good way to check on whether a particular service is available in your destination area.)

I have not looked at Verizon's offerings lately, so they may have similar plans. Check the Technomadia website (https://www.technomadia.com) for the most up-to-date information.

Copied from Quora.

Starlink update

Steve Baker
Blogger at LetsRunWithIt.com (2013–present)Dec 1

Does SpaceX really risk bankruptcy with the Raptor crisis or is Elon Musk being over dramatic?
Originally Answered: Does SpaceX really risk bankruptcy with the raptor crisis or is Elon Musk being over dramatic (https://spaceexplored.com/2021/11/29...ptor-crisis/)?
I think it would be a very long/slow death for the company - and it would be somewhat avoidable - but I don’t think Elon is exaggerating much.

SpaceX are spending a TON of money on the StarShip program - and have commitments to NASA and to the #DearMoon project to complete it…and (of course) Elon Musk is determined to start a Mars colony.

The money to pay for that cannot come from SpaceX’s Falcon-9/Heavy launch profits…there simply isn’t enough money to cover the eye-watering costs of this rapid pace of development.

Hence the StarLink (satellite internet) service is an essential part of StarShip development…it’s “a license to print money”…but that money is what pays to get to Mars.

STARLINK - THE CASH COW:

However, StarLink is at a crisis point. They’ve launched enough Mk 1 satellites (aboard Falcon-9’s) to prove that it’ll work and to get enough customers to show that there is interest in it.

However, Mk 1’s can only talk to ground stations - so if you live someplace under the flight path of the Mk 1 satellites - and you want to (say) visit Quora.com then you send a request to the nearest satellite which has to relay that message to a ground station which sends the message off to download Quora’s front page. When the response comes back, it has to go to the ground station which then sends the data up to the satellite - which then relays it back to your dish.

But for this to work, the satellite has to be able to “see” both your StarLink dish AND the ground station. Although the satellite is 350 miles up above the Earth, it can only see ground stations within a couple of hundred miles.

This means that SpaceX have to build a massive number of ground stations - which is expensive - and if you live too far from a ground station, you can’t buy service.

THE MK II STARLINK:

However, all of this messing around with ground stations is NOT the long-term plan.

Enter the Mk II StarLink satellite.

This version is larger and heavier than the MK I and has equipment on board to send and receive data from other MK II’s via a laser link.

So now - no matter where you live - you send a message to the nearest satellite - it figures out which other satellite is closest to Quora headquarters - and sends the message from one satellite to the next until it reaches the right place and THEN sends the message to the ground station.

This means that SpaceX don’t need many ground stations - in fact, just one ground station could (theoretically) service the entire world.

But the snag here is that while you can fit 60 Mk I StarLinks into a Falcon-9, you can’t get anywhere near that number of the larger/heavier Mk II’s.

This means that SpaceX can’t get ahead on StarLink without having StarShip working.

StarShip could probably launch 400 StarLink’s at a time (!!) - so the Mk II network could be launched amazingly quickly - and much money earned.

CHICKEN AND EGG SITUATIONS:

So SpaceX are in a bind.

To get StarLink to full profitability, they need to be able to launch StarShip to orbit - and to get to the 12,000 satellites they need - they’ll need 30 StarShip launches to orbit.
But to get StarShip launching on a regular basis, they need a ton of money…which means that they need StarLink to be earning money.
Elon Musk isn’t stupid - he has a degree in economics - so I’m quite sure he figured this out…get JUST enough money from StarLink to pay for JUST a couple of StarShip launches…which earns more StarLink money…which pays for more StarShips.

However, THREE simultaneous problems are biting him:

The FAA decided to do a major audit of the SpaceX facility in Boca Chica - which has tossed a wrench into the StarShip testing program. They’ve been refusing to grant launch permits for many months now.
The “chip shortage” has limited the number of StarLink dishes that can be made - and for some customers (myself included) the shipping date for the dish has slipped an entire YEAR.
Evidently, something very bad has been happening at the SpaceX Raptor rocket motor factory. We’re not sure what it is - but it resulted in several senior managers being fired - and accusations that they were hiding production problems from Elon. (HINT: DO NOT PISS OFF ELON!).
THE PERFECT STORM:

A shortage of rocket motors when doing sub-orbital testing of StarShip wasn’t too serious.

They could test launch with just three of the six motors on StarShip (because three of them are “vacuum optimised” and not needed at low altitudes).

But now they are ready for orbital testing, they’ll need 28 motors for the SuperHeavy and all 6 motors for the StarShip.

And until they manage to stick a landing with SuperHeavy - they’re going to waste all of those engines with every single test flight.

This wouldn’t have been so bad because even if they couldn’t stick a landing (which is the hard part) - just getting a StarShip up to orbital speed would be enough to allow each test flight to launch hundreds of Mk II StarLinks - more than enough to pay for the destruction of another StarShip+Superheavy.

But to do that, the planned manufacturing rate of Raptor engines was supposed to reach one engine per day…allowing them to do a test launch (with 400 MkII StarLinks) about once a month until they became able to re-use SuperHeavy.

With SuperHeavy sticking it’s landings, StarShip could fly once a week - even if it couldn’t land.

But until they can get the complicated “capture” landing system working, any slowdown in rocket motor production will have a direct impact on StarShip orbital flights.

Add to this the enforced delay from the FAA - and things start to look very bad for SpaceX.

SO WOULD THIS AMOUNT TO “BANKRUPTCY”?

I don’t think it would be THAT bad.

If Raptor engine production failed - and StarShip failed - and StarLink (Mk II) didn’t get completed - the “core business” of SpaceX is still in it’s Falcon-9/Heavy launches.

So they could possibly kill StarShip - not do more than modest ground station growth with Mk I StarLinks - and make enough money to weather the storm.

CONCLUSION:

From Elon Musk’s perspective - this is **DEATH** to the goals of SpaceX (to become a multiplanetary species).

But from the perspective of the rest of the world, the market for Falcon-9 launches will keep the company afloat - and SpaceX is STILL the biggest launch company in all of history.

So we can only hope that he can figure out the problems with the Raptor factory - and that the FAA get their act together and start licensing launches.

But without understanding precisely WHAT is going on with Raptor engine manufacturing and WHY the management at the factory were (allegedly) covering it up…it’s very hard to make predictions.
48.4K viewsView 724 upvotesView 3 shares
Logan Greger

Starlink installation complete except for VHB tape mounting the antenna base. The antenna lead is 100ft. I will cut it to something more manageable next summer. I have the special tools but it is very easy to mess up an ethernet RJ45 connector. Will post a picture of the antenna in action when it happens.

What a contrast to the complex DataStorm dish of years past.

Just watch out for cats:

https://www.rvtravel.com/starlink-kitty-problem-satellite-dishes-rvt-1034b/

Just watch out for cats:

https://www.rvtravel.com/starlink-kitty-problem-satellite-dishes-rvt-1034b/

They are heated to melt snow.

That raises some questions. Assuming separate heaters are used (that is, not just the waste heat of the electronics in the dish), how much of the system's 100W power consumption is due to the heaters? Are the heaters on all the time, or thermostatically controlled? Has anybody monitored power consumption as temperatures drop to see whether there's a spike when the heaters turn on?

As for the photograph shown in the article, I'm thinking that sitting on top of a 4 W microwave transmitter is probably not a healthy thing for a cat. And from the transmitter's point of view, the five cats shown are probably attenuating microwaves a lot more than a few inches of snow, because they are much more dense. (Snow is about 10% water, whereas a mammal is about 90% water.) Finally, five cats would weigh about 40 to 60 pounds altogether, which is probably much more of a load than the dish is designed to support.

Mind, I can understand why StarLink felt the heaters were necessary. I experienced internet dropouts during snowstorms several times when I was using HughesNet satellite internet. I remember one blizzard during which I had to go out every hour or so and sweep the accumulated snow off the dish in order to stay online. I could do this because my dish was on a tripod. If the dish had been roof-mounted, as many smaller satellite dishes are, keeping it clear would have been a real problem--a problem the StarLink heaters are designed to solve.

More of an explanation.

If I Fits, I Sits: Starlink's Self-Heating Internet Satellite Dishes Are... (https://gizmodo.com/if-i-fits-i-sits-starlinks-self-heating-internet-sate-1848327155)

As I understand it the dish does not have a heater. Problems with the signal increases the normal heat output of the dish.

When I used it on a frosty morning it was covered in an array of perfectly spaced water droplets and working well. Should have taken a picture. It was off during the night and covered in frost. The heat comes from the phased array transmitting elements.

Picked up on the net that Starlink location restrictions were coming off in a month or so. Hope it is true.

Interesting article, although it doesn't explain what "Snow Melt Mode" is, exactly. If it can be turned on and off, that suggests a separate heater, but doesn't prove it. In any case, I'd still like to know what happens to the system's power consumption when "Snow Melt Mode" is on vs. when it's off.

"all those furry butts parked on top of the dish succeeded in slowing down the service’s performance and interrupting movie live streams but didn’t cut off service completely."

'S what I thought.

"Ookla, the company behind one of the most widely used internet speed tests, demonstrated it was much faster than other satellite internet services like HughesNet and Viasat..."

It would not be hard to beat HughesNet, if my experience some years back is any guide. But in those days, I was grateful to have any connection at all... even with a huge, clunky surveyor's-tripod-mounted dish that took infinite care to aim.

Interesting side note: I read today that StarLink just launched 49 more satellites, but due to bad solar weather, 40 of them are either coming right back down, or have already. :-( Unusually high solar emissions heat up Earth's atmosphere; it expands; and the resulting increased drag brings these very low Earth orbit birds spiraling down. Very unfortunate.

Interesting article, although it doesn't explain what "Snow Melt Mode" is, exactly. If it can be turned on and off, that suggests a separate heater, but doesn't prove it. In any case, I'd still like to know what happens to the system's power consumption when "Snow Melt Mode" is on vs. when it's off.

Not really clear. On youtube you can see someone throw away $500 and tear apart the first version of the dish. They found nothing that could pass as a heater element. They are on version 3 now and the software allows you to turn snow melt mode on and the power draw increases. No one has said it has a heater element.

One person reported the current draw with snow melt mode on. I can’t remember the number. Maybe 100 watts more.

Search “Dishy teardown” on youtube.

"the software allows you to turn snow melt mode on and the power draw increases. No one has said it has a heater element."

Wonder how they do it, then? Just jack up the transmitter power?

Those interested in the details of Starlink will probably find this interesting - an interview with a former Starlink manager at SpaceX. 

Of particular interest to me is the capacity limits for a city-sized area:

And it turns out, with the current satellite design, roughly approximating here, for an area the size of like Seattle or Toronto, that large of a surface area, you can really only put like 300 to 600 users. So, this isn't, as you've said, honestly, that big of a competitive threat to like raw servicing of highly dense areas, it's a spatial play.

This tells me that starlink could easily get overcrowded in a place like Quartzite, or Yellowstone, or any place where RVers tend to gather in large numbers (assuming roaming issues get worked out).

The 300-600 limit could be expanded, but not by that much.

Former Manager of Starlink Gateways at SpaceX
That's correct. Yes, and it will go up. I think it will go up. It basically goes up as a function of the aperture of the antenna, like the aperture diameter of the antenna on orbit. That means, basically, you have a smaller beam size and a smaller service zone per beam from the satellite so you can fit more users in a given area without breaking the FCC rules.
But it's not like this cornucopia of solutions where you're going to have the exact same competitive user density threat as a telecom traditional terrestrial provider would have, it's going to maybe get better by like at most a factor of 10 or something like that.

Full interview:
Tegus (https://app.tegus.co/guest/view/8Y247zVsJbuTv1SNpoNEtquSWTRdCUZLi9ccDiVYtob6kmvJc9sXrnrtUbF9)

Rich

The heater element as such isn't a cartridge, but probably an oxide film over the entire (back) surface.  DC riding on the RF connector like in the Winegard Sensar antenna.  RonB

"the software allows you to turn snow melt mode on and the power draw increases. No one has said it has a heater element."

Wonder how they do it, then? Just jack up the transmitter power?

Yes.

In version one the story was that the increase in heat production with signal problems just happened. The marketing folks turned the bug into a feature. I have version 2 and it turned the morning frost into a perfectly spaced array of water droplets which tells me it is not a resistive layer but still related to transmitter power. I’ll take a picture next time I see it. Version 3, the rectangular one, may be different.

Starlink users are reporting the ability to roam and the Ellie in Space you tube channel said location restrictions were coming off in a month or so.

I won’t be able to verify till I move from Utah to Colorado in May. Just thought you would be interested in the latest developments.

Starlink users are reporting the ability to roam and the Ellie in Space you tube channel said location restrictions were coming off in a month or so.

I won’t be able to verify till I move from Utah to Colorado in May. Just thought you would be interested in the latest developments.

I wasn't sure what Ellie in Space was:

" My name is Eliana and you may recognize me as your Starlink news source. I love to keep you up to date, not only with Starlink news, but also what's new in the world of SpaceX. I have over 6 years in the journalism industry and keeping viewers up to date is what I do best."

Chris

"I wasn't sure what Ellie in Space was:..."

Nor was I! But according to a recent news report Starlink just lost a bunch of birds due to a solar storm. You can watch the debris shower down if you've got the right angle.  :o  Looks like they may have to speed up their launches to account for attrition!  ::)

Just an FYI,
More and more Starlink customers are reporting the ability to roam with looser location restrictions.

I won’t have personal experience with that till June.

Still no word on a permanently mounted mobile antenna. RVs are using the one meant for stationary structure mounting and removing it for travel. They have a roof mount that makes it easy to do.

More and more Starlink users are reporting the ability to roam without changing your service address. One person even removed the motors from the dish, mounted it flat on his roof, and has functionality while driving. More later when I can experience things first hand.

Wow

More and more Starlink users are reporting the ability to roam without changing your service address. One person even removed the motors from the dish, mounted it flat on his roof, and has functionality while driving. More later when I can experience things first hand.

This about says it all. Starlink is here, roaming enabled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PDVURcvWeg

Since this thread deals with Starlink I thought I'd inject a news report I heard this morning... it seems that if it were not for Starlink many Ukrainians would be without Internet and a means to communicate. Sad situation there!   :(

Starlink up an running. Many report roaming is enabled but I’m at my service address and won’t know till I move.

I don’t know enough to report speeds but Youtube videos play very well.

Starlink up an running. Many report roaming is enabled but I’m at my service address and won’t know till I move.

I don’t know enough to report speeds but Youtube videos play very well.

Google speedtest.

Starlink has it’s own app but I was seeing such low numbers I figured there was an error somewhere. A few minutes ago it was 150mps down which is what others were reporting.

High winds today but it doesn’t seem to have bothered my antenna mount VHB taped to the roof, yet. Not real happy with it because the aluminum under it is not attached to anything and flexes. Seems to work for now.

Gonna be cold tonight so will give a final report on the gasoline furnace which no one is interested in. So far a very good mod.

Two of my four Battleborn batteries seem to have problems after five years. I have two banks of two so will report on that after I get it figured out. I just cut them out of the system for now.

Sounds like I should put off installing a cell booster like WeBoost this summer.

Sounds like I should put off installing a cell booster like WeBoost this summer.

They each have their moments. A tree lined campground will be useless to Starlink.

This may answer some quuestions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdvpEwx7xos

The good folks at Technomedia have a recently updated comprehensive discussion of Starlink that might be of interest:  Starlink Satellite Internet for Mobile RV and Boat Use - Mobile Internet... (https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/guides/starlink-rv-boat/)
— Jon

since in the RV world, dish is not installed permanently (I am sure mobile dish will be available in future) there will be work involved in moving the dish and running the wires etc. etc. for each setup and teardown. For our style of travelling it will be on average of 2.5 days (need to learn to slow down). In this rapid setup and teardown cycle setup need to be as simple as possible.  I am planning to use the stand which come with the kit but if height become an issue,  I can easily find heavy duty tripod from any hardware store while on the road which pose another issue of storing more stuff.

as for power consumption I did not think about it before ordering the kit but I doubt it would have stopped me .....

Just watched a class C with the Starlink square antenna permanently mounted on the roof with the Starlink provided tripod. It was behind the A/C for a little wind break. I won’t do that but each to his own.

Power consumption adds up at 4 amps. I find with sharing with friends I need to run it 24/7. With my dual lead acid/lithium battery system I can start the generator without bringing down Starlink as the generator runs off the lead acid battery.

With a normal battery system starting the generator will turn Starlink off.

if simple solution I have for installation does not work I like the picture Larry W shared about telescopic pole clamped with the ladder, I think I should get Startlink pipe connector just in case, rest of the hardware is easily available ... lets see if aspirin works before we can think about surgery  ... other idea may be to get Startlink short wall mount and somehow screw it to the highest point on the ladder or perhaps attach wall mount on a clamp which can screw on the ladder, not sure what ladder clamps are available. Many options beside putting the dish on the roof. For the folks who have not seen Starlink accessories here is the link Starlink (https://shop.starlink.com/)

Power consumption information is informative hope 4amp at 12V and not 120V :-) with 12V, power consumption is 48W. Let say we use the system for 3 hrs, we we will need around 150Wh/day (will be downloading lot of stuff for off load study or entertainment). I do have couple of 500W small lithium battery bank, I use one for bipap machine and second can be used for Starlink. Battery bank will last for 3 days and if I use the portable solar panels with the battery bank we can extend the use for 4-5 days I also have small inverter which I can use with the coach battery, our coach battery hardly goes below 90%.  In last 18 months of motorhome I never have to run the generator to charge battery but I was surprised that generator put only about 20-25 amp in battery and in similar condition alternator put in 10 amp more .... I need to find ways to charge the battery bank using the alternator when RV is moving, it has c type of connector which can takes 60W input for charging and guess 5amp will not trigger any fuse breaker.

Reading posts here and as soon as I found out that roaming is turned on, I knew it is time to try .... we will be on cruise for few months early next year for South America and Antartia and dish is coming with me ... I know cruise folks will have lot of issues with it but I do not have to announce. I also noticed that not all the countries are not turned on but I don't know how Starlink can stop a legit dish accessing to passing by satellite.

Business case for this expense was my wife's connivence but guess I am getting real excited with new technology. This used to be very expensive technology and satellite telephone were pretty big and expensive and of course service was out of my league before now. It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow and I will be busy couple of days playing :-)

Just watched a class C with the Starlink square antenna permanently mounted on the roof with the Starlink provided tripod. It was behind the A/C for a little wind break. I won’t do that but each to his own.

Power consumption adds up at 4 amps. I find with sharing with friends I need to run it 24/7. With my dual lead acid/lithium battery system I can start the generator without bringing down Starlink as the generator runs off the lead acid battery.

With a normal battery system starting the generator will turn Starlink off.

"I was surprised that generator put only about 20-25 amp in battery"

The generator puts out lots of power... but it feeds the converter, which in turn charges the battery. The converter is the bottleneck: its DC power output doesn't take advantage of all that generator power. If you want faster charging from the generator, you could replace the converter with one that has higher output (making sure the DC wiring is large enough)... and/or go to LiFePO4 batteries, which charge much faster than lead-acid ones, because they don't have a long tapering absorb cycle.

"I know cruise folks will have lot of issues with it but I do not have to announce."

Since the dish must be out in the open to work, you'd have to mount it on deck somehow. It's going to be obvious, in other words.

Also, bear in mind that Starlink is currently limited to latitudes between 57° north and 57° south, so it won't work in Antartica. It also won't work in some oceanic locations, until Starlink launches a lot more satellites.

Andy,
I think both of us worked in the same environment and first lesson was getting permission is difficult compared to saying sorry.  ... I am using bipap for 22 years and now cruise crew are relaxed about it but initially their engineer will come to the room to make sure that it is not a fire hazard and will not strain their electric system and extension cord has correct gauge etc. .... I can use disk in the balcony and if they have issue it will go back to the box. They cannot throw me in the water ....

As for north and south I understand, no satellites no service. There are number of countries do not have Starlink service according to the map on the website. If my memory is correct non of the South American country is in the list. New satellites do not required ground infrastructure, what switches/routers were doing in past these satellites are doing the same routing functionality by talking to each other wirelessly which make ground infrastructure redundant but there are still older model satellites in the mix which do need to use ground routers. There is no logic to restrict any country. We are starting in Ft. Lauderdale and after around 3 months will come back to Ft. Lauderdale and it will  be interesting to see how they can block a country. If satellites have to be moving above them to make the circle they should support legit disks. unless they need ground support.  More of the curiosity then anything else .... I am out of this field for 12 years perhaps there are few things I do not get anymore.

Regards,

"I know cruise folks will have lot of issues with it but I do not have to announce."

Since the dish must be out in the open to work, you'd have to mount it on deck somehow. It's going to be obvious, in other words.

Also, bear in mind that Starlink is currently limited to latitudes between 57° north and 57° south, so it won't work in Antartica. It also won't work in some oceanic locations, until Starlink launches a lot more satellites.

Andy,

Got it. Thanks.

Right now stock batteries and converter along with two additional batteries are good enough for us but good to know why I was not seeing more current going into the battery. I thought it was due to some programming issues for stage charging. I am very happy with LD's well thought design and will hesitate to modify it unless absolutely needed. I know putting in Lithium batteries will help me but who in NJ will touch LD? and I am in no physical shape to do it on my own. I am still struggling with Ford to fix safety recall. Story for some other time ....

After Alaska trip I am not sure what will be our next move, if health does not deteriorate and we enjoy Alaska trip and continue to talk to each other few weeks after coming back (while in the cruise) my wife may bring up next step (and if she does not I will) and I am getting ready for that talk .... been looking at Patagonia model from Global Expedition vehicle, beside knowing the company and model I have no idea what which truck I will go with .... still at least two years in future, if we ever reach to that point and stock do not loose too much steam. With this in mind, we are doing minor modifications in LD to make our life little easy like hydraulic levelers, additional batteries, ceramic coating and few more cosmetic changes but not investing any serious time on other modification. But then I see folks here happy with LD for years after years and US has so much variety that buying an expensive truck to go out of country does not make much sense. My name and place of birth is another issue, I am stopped at least 5-6 borders in last few years. Apparently there are 11 folks in interpole wanted list whose names are similar to mine and were born in the same city (folks do not realize that 90% folks in Pakistan has either first or second name Muhammad). This is future but right now I am enjoying the present .....

Regards,

"I was surprised that generator put only about 20-25 amp in battery"

The generator puts out lots of power... but it feeds the converter, which in turn charges the battery. The converter is the bottleneck: its DC power output doesn't take advantage of all that generator power. If you want faster charging from the generator, you could replace the converter with one that has higher output (making sure the DC wiring is large enough)... and/or go to LiFePO4 batteries, which charge much faster than lead-acid ones, because they don't have a long tapering absorb cycle.

Starlink runs on AC. If you cannot run a 300 watt inverter from your flooded lead acid (FLA) battery bank without it screaming (I cannot) you will not be able to run Starlink. My FLA bank has a voltage drop I have never found, probably in the cut off switch.

The power supply can be modified to run on 12 volts but it is not a trivial mod. Don’t expect a problem free Starlink startup. Starlink will not have problems but your power source might.

Thanks for the heads up.

I have two small portable 500W battery bank, small units with lithium batteries (50 ah battery I believe), chargers and inverter bundled in one unit and couple of different outlets (12V, 120V, usb, c, etc.).  Based on calculation posted here 500W should last for 3-4 days for 3 hour/day usage. I don't think withdrawing 4 amp from them for 3-4 hours continuously will be a problem but these are cheap units and I do not have them for long enough to have any confidence. They are advertised 10+K discharge and charge cycles though.

I am expecting Starlink hardware delivery today and I have few weeks to play with it .... potential power issue was not even on my radar screen, and without your messages  I would not even have paid attention and just used home outlet during the testing period .. Not ready to go for lithium conversion yet, if need be I know I can buy 2K or 3K battery pack but it will be too heavy for me to handle. I am glad you are giving me advance notice and I will be ready before the trip.

Regards,

Starlink runs on AC. If you cannot run a 300 watt inverter from your flooded lead acid (FLA) battery bank without it screaming (I cannot) you will not be able to run Starlink. My FLA bank has a voltage drop I have never found, probably in the cut off switch.

The power supply can be modified to run on 12 volts but it is not a trivial mod. Don’t expect a problem free Starlink startup. Starlink will not have problems but your power source might.

Starlink needs at least a 300 watt inverter. My 200 watt inverter fails. Presently I am running it on a 1500 watt inverter.

I have seen it draw up to 9 amps at 13.3 volts as the power draw varies a good bit. The 45 watt number comes from those that averaged the power draw over time. In addition to that you have the inverter parasitic loss.

Don’t expect it to be trouble free if you don’t have excess power to play with. Just an FYI.

Thanks again and got it. I am not dropping my cell service nor am I dropping home internet service. I know early technology adaptors pain quite well and am ready, I do not know much about LD or camping but I do have some background on this technology .... I checked amazon this am after reading your messages and portable power station prices are in free fall going to that route will have the problem of charging them .... right now we are set to survive without any electrical supply for weeks and weeks and I like it that way if getting bigger portable power station means I will have to plug them every few days then it will be a serious restriction unless they can be charged fast from alternator while car is going from point a to point b .... first thing first, lets see if Starlink work in our scenario of moving every second or third day and if it work then I am willing to make few adjustments. I was expecting Startlink hw to be delivered today and of course it is delayed, at this point I am not even 100% sure if it will work at my home. At the time of ordering, I was busy booking one of the Utah national park campground and used it as service area to accelerate HW delivery. Yes risky but I am not getting Statlink for home use anyway, I have adequate speed at fraction of the cost at home it has to work while we are travelling in remote areas.
Thanks again and I am taking your input very seriously.

Starlink needs at least a 300 watt inverter. My 200 watt inverter fails. Presently I am running it on a 1500 watt inverter.

I have seen it draw up to 9 amps at 13.3 volts as the power draw varies a good bit. The 45 watt number comes from those that averaged the power draw over time. In addition to that you have the inverter parasitic loss.

Don’t expect it to be trouble free if you don’t have excess power to play with. Just an FYI.

The LD generator should charge your power station very quickly. Forget about the alternator.

"The LD generator should charge your power station very quickly. Forget about the alternator."

The 2021 E450 chassis in Muhammad's rig includes a 210 amp alternator. Lazy Daze builds in a 55 amp converter, which is the limiting factor when  charging with the generator. Of course not all of the alternator's power is available to charge the house batteries. But I'd be very surprised if the generator/converter combination outperformed an alternator with four times the raw power.

"The LD generator should charge your power station very quickly. Forget about the alternator."

The 2021 E450 chassis in Muhammad's rig includes a 210 amp alternator. Lazy Daze builds in a 55 amp converter, which is the limiting factor when  charging with the generator. Of course not all of the alternator's power is available to charge the house batteries. But I'd be very surprised if the generator/converter combination outperformed an alternator with four times the raw power.

I use a separate AC charger, 100-200 amps. The problem with the alternator is getting a charging voltage of 14+ volts to match the lithium in the power centers. It can be done but I haven’t tried. The AC charger works very well.

He will figure it out.

"I use a separate AC charger, 100-200 amps."

I guess I missed the part where you informed Muhammad that in order for your "forget the alternator" statement to be true, he'd need to buy a separate 100-200 amp charger, wire it in, and use it for charging instead of his built-in converter.

if getting a bigger portable power station means I will have to plug them every few days then it will be a serious restriction unless they can be charged fast from the alternator while the car is going from point a to point b .

Every portable power station I have seen has a built-in charger and the better ones have lithium batteries. If you have several power stations that need charging, the generator can provide up to 4000-watts, and plenty of power for charging all your power stations at once. The lithium batteries charge very quickly, reducing generator run time.

As hbn7hj pointed out, the problem charging off the alternator is low voltage. To fully charge lithiums, 14.4-14.6 volts are needed. Alternators tend to have their output voltage drop as they heat up and as the starting battery becomes fully charged.
In modern vehicles, the alternator's voltage is controlled by the engine's computer and cannot be adjusted, AFAIK.

An alternative to generator use is to install a big inverter and use it to charge the power stations while the engine is running.

Larry

Harry, Larry and Andy,
Thanks a bunch. This is new information for me, but there is enough here for me absorb, understand and act on it.

Harry,
I apologize, from very beginning you been trying to educate me and I continue to miss it. If you get a chance to post what you are using, I will simply get it otherwise I will look for options on amazon.

Regards,

As Larry said those 'power packs' have their own charging systems.  You could charge using the type of DC to DC converter that I have.     12V 60A DC to DC On-Board Battery Charger | Renogy Solar (https://www.renogy.com/12v-60a-dc-to-dc-battery-charger/)    It can charge lead/acid or LiFePO4 and accepts what ever voltage the engine alternator provides. It up converts to the higher voltage that the LiF batteries use.  It can also be controlled by the D+ input to not load the alternator if it is using power for other items, (i.e. electric leveler retracting),  and the  LC+ input to limit current demand from the alternator.  
    Rather than fool with the individual boxes, converting to LiF is the easiest long term solution. My inverter isn't big enough to run the air conditioner, but a MB could have one. 450-500 Watts of solar is the best for the present R3000i solar controller. My R3000i was easy to program for a higher voltage to accommodate the LiF batteries. Our 24' rigs are harder to put more solar PV panels than that anyway.  The 27' and longer can fit more panels and more batteries.  With my two SOK and 5 kw of power available (without damaging the batteries) I can go a long time without running out of power.   RonB

Just trying to understand ... I am looking at specs for Globas power station (Amazon.com : GOLABS Portable Power Station R500, 518Wh LiFePO4 Battery... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09GLHH18J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)) which I have two of them, this power pack has a 100W charger built in even if I ignore all the looses, I can get 100/12 ~ 8 amp for charging when I connect to 12 volt or even if I turn on the generator and connect it to a 110V socket I will get less then one amp input (100/120). If I put a more powerful charger (100/200 amp0 between build in charger and say 110 socket when I run the generator, will it really help? I did not pay much for this power pack and it reflect on cheap low capacity charger. Is there a way to bypass built in charger in the box?

Will DC to DC charger bypass built in charger?

As Larry said those 'power packs' have their own charging systems.  You could charge using the type of DC to DC converter that I have.     12V 60A DC to DC On-Board Battery Charger | Renogy Solar (https://www.renogy.com/12v-60a-dc-to-dc-battery-charger/)    It can charge lead/acid or LiFePO4 and accepts what ever voltage the engine alternator provides. It up converts to the higher voltage that the LiF batteries use.  It can also be controlled by the D+ input to not load the alternator if it is using power for other items, (i.e. electric leveler retracting),  and the  LC+ input to limit current demand from the alternator.  
    Rather than fool with the individual boxes, converting to LiF is the easiest long term solution. My inverter isn't big enough to run the air conditioner, but a MB could have one. 450-500 Watts of solar is the best for the present R3000i solar controller. My R3000i was easy to program for a higher voltage to accommodate the LiF batteries. Our 24' rigs are harder to put more solar PV panels than that anyway.  The 27' and longer can fit more panels and more batteries.  With my two SOK and 5 kw of power available (without damaging the batteries) I can go a long time without running out of power.   RonB

Harry, Larry and Andy,
Thanks a bunch. This is new information for me, but there is enough here for me absorb, understand and act on it.

Harry,
I apologize, from very beginning you been trying to educate me and I continue to miss it. If you get a chance to post what you are using, I will simply get it otherwise I will look for options on amazon.

Just use what you have. If it falls short, make changes.

I have 400AH of lithium battery and 100-200 amps of AC charger. That is much more than you need. At the moment 200AH of battery is not working correctly so I have removed it temporarily from the system. I have 200 amps of AC chargers, 1 80 amp and two 60 amp. They are smart chargers and do not work well together. I was supposed to call Progressive dynamics technical to find out if I could make a modification to get the full 200 amps. I never did. The most I have seen is 120 amps at 14 volts.

I am running Starlink 24/7 with this setup. The generator runs less than an hour a day to keep up. I do have a trivial 200 watts of solar.

Were I just starting I would first see if your FLA system will run a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter for a reasonable amount of time. Mine will not. If it does then you are good to go. I have run mine on a Samlex 300 watt pure sine wave inverter.

If that fails I would try to run it on one of your power blocks or whatever they are called. I expect it to work.

If that doesn’t work I would get a Bogart battery monitor, a 100AH Battleborn lithium battery a 300 watt inverter and a Progressive Dynamics 60 amp AC charger. I’m not hung up on Battleborn, any brand should work.

Start small and let’s work through it. My Roadtrek has run it on one Battleborn battery. Worked very well. The Bogart battery monitor lets you know when you need to run the generator.

This posting is through Starlink in the wilds of eastern Utah.

The other folks in this thread know what they are talking about.

Good advice and this is my line of thought as well .... I will try to use what I have and modify as needed. DC to DC charger need more more wiring then I am able or willing to do and 200 amp ac charger you mentioned is more then I need and at this point I am not even sure it will help with the baby battery packs I have. In the process I did learn few new things in last few days and always good to know your limitation in advance. I think easiest way for me will be to get a bigger batter pack paying attention to charging capability but I will not rush to collect more junk unless I really need it.

Thanks for sharing all the information and have all the intention of using Startlink in the middle of nowhere. Little experience give me the appreciation of difficulty of getting the required components while on the road.

Be well Harry

Just use what you have. If it falls short, make changes.

I have 400AH of lithium battery and 100-200 amps of AC charger. That is much more than you need. At the moment 200AH of battery is not working correctly so I have removed it temporarily from the system. I have 200 amps of AC chargers, 1 80 amp and two 60 amp. They are smart chargers and do not work well together. I was supposed to call Progressive dynamics technical to find out if I could make a modification to get the full 200 amps. I never did. The most I have seen is 120 amps at 14 volts.

I am running Starlink 24/7 with this setup. The generator runs less than an hour a day to keep up. I do have a trivial 200 watts of solar.

Were I just starting I would first see if your FLA system will run a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter for a reasonable amount of time. Mine will not. If it does then you are good to go. I have run mine on a Samlex 300 watt pure sine wave inverter.

If that fails I would try to run it on one of your power blocks or whatever they are called. I expect it to work.

If that doesn’t work I would get a Bogart battery monitor, a 100AH Battleborn lithium battery a 300 watt inverter and a Progressive Dynamics 60 amp AC charger. I’m not hung up on Battleborn, any brand should work.

Start small and let’s work through it. My Roadtrek has run it on one Battleborn battery. Worked very well. The Bogart battery monitor lets you know when you need to run the generator.

This posting is through Starlink in the wilds of eastern Utah.

The other folks in this thread know what they are talking about.

I agree with Harry's advice to start small and work through it, upgrading only as necessary. That said...

"Rather than fool with the individual boxes, converting to LiF is the easiest long term solution." -- RonB

I agree. Your Lazy Daze already has a well-integrated electrical system: alternator, generator, converter, solar panels, batteries, fuse panel, and of course wiring throughout the coach. If you need more input power, it makes sense to upgrade the 55 amp converter/charger to a more powerful one, and/or add more solar panels. Similarly, if you need more storage for that power, it makes sense either to add more batteries like the ones you already have, or (as Ron suggests) switch to LiFePO4 batteries that can hold more power.

These upgrades will take full advantage of the electrical system that you paid for when you bought your rig. Own the other hand, with a "power station" such as the GoLabs unit you mentioned, you have a second system, partially duplicating the LD electrical system but much more limited, and which must be charged and managed separately. It's not tied into the LD system, so you can only charge it as fast as its internal circuitry will allow--and that's not very fast.

GoLabs' supplied AC adapter, for example, only provides 3 amps at 15 volts. You can plug in a solar panel, but it must not be larger than 100 watts--that's about 5.5 amps at 18 volts. These are very small charging currents compared to what your Lazy Daze's built-in electrical system can provide to your house batteries. And once it's charged, you don't have the advantage of power that's available to every 12V socket in your RV. (Yes, these power stations give you an inverter... but inverters are easy to find these days. For example, Bestek makes a 1,000 watt pure sine wave inverter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XYR1BS3?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) the size of a lunchbox.)

My point is that as Ron said, for most RVers it makes more sense to upgrade one or more components of your rig's existing electrical system than to buy one or more separate "power stations" and then juggle multiple independent power systems that don't work together. In your case, better house batteries and perhaps a good inverter make more sense than multiple "boxes."

Thank Andy.

Current system is adequate for our need. I was gung-ho on lithium upgrade and adding couple of additional panel and also lined up same vendor Ken used. Additional two batteries under the fridge were supposed to be temporary solution. I read that coach batteries do not last for more then 12 months. It turn out that I was too pessimist. System is going very strong and I do not see any weakness and at this point I don't know electrical upgrade will come first or rig change will happen first.

Issue at hand is power need for Startlink and I still have difficulty digesting the facts that it will take around 50W (about twice as much as tv). I am sure Harry has turn off snow melting feature and perhaps there are few other features I do not need. Even with 50W need, my little power pack should last 10 hrs or 3 days and I put both of them on work we are set for about a week. Lets see how it goes ... our coach battery never go beyond 90% it may be the time to get them to use as well, I do have a small inverter which I thought we will use to charge cell phones but they get charged while we drive. I will see the rating of inverter I have and perhaps I do need a bigger inverter but not sure. It is good that amazon and ebay keep a good history of our purchases :-)
 
And you are right about charging portable solar panels ...  efficiency of portable panels is pathetic, even in ideal condition I have never seen working better then 50%. As for two systems, yes it is not ideal situation but not much pain in the back either.

I took of time from experts on this topic but in the process I got better understanding of weak points of existing electrical system. I am sure LD will update a component now that chassis has better alternator but all of us know they take their time. I have no complain and my reluctance to make any changes is the reflection on their solid design.

Edit: I checked and I already have 300W inverter which can be used to power Starlink but I will be keeping more closer eye on my house batteries. I do remember Larry W. advice to not go beyond 80% on regular basis.

Regards,

"efficiency of portable panels is pathetic, even in ideal condition I have never seen working better then 50%."

Depends upon the panels. The fold-away panels sold with some of the power stations/"solar generators" may not be that great; I haven't tried them. I have been using a pair of Renogy Eclipse 100 watt panels on the ground for the past six months or so, and I've seen more than 200 watts peak output, although 180 watts is more typical (and that's in the middle of the day). I have the panels tilted at 30°, and move them a couple of times each day to face the sun.

I've connected the panels in series for 35 V output, and am feeding a Victron MPPT solar charging controller via a 20-foot 10 gauge cable. The higher voltage cuts the voltage drop in the cable in half--important when I need to get the panels twenty feet away from the rig to avoid shadows. And the MPPT controller works more efficiently with a higher input voltage.

I'm actually planning to make my own "solar suitcase" by hinging a couple of 100 W panels together and adding a handle, just for convenience. It will be a lot less expensive than commercially sold 200 watt suitcases, because I won't be including a solar controller on the panels. (The controllers on most suitcases I've seen are not MPPT, and so are not very efficient. That's something to look for if you're shopping for a solar suitcase system.)

The charging limitation with the power stations that I referred to is not so much an issue with the charging source (AC adapter or solar panel) as it is with the internal circuitry of the power station itself. Most of these are just not built to accept high charging currents.

Andy,
Thanks
I will be in Moab for 5-6 days in late fall and I think there are quality RV modification shops there. Hope I can find a shop or a person who can put 2-4 additional panels on the roof. I will remember your input and will ask for the best available panels but I do believe LD roof is reinforced to accomodate factory installed panels at specific points. I will have to look for lighter  perhaps flexible ones and who knows I can find a technician to help me in replacing converter/charger as  well .... you are putting panels in parallel to increase the voltage and decreasing the current. I understand less lost due to less current but does it also mean I do not have to worry about wire gauge and continue to  use factory installed wire (really do not want to mess this one)? Is Solar controller is smart enough to sense the incoming voltage and adjust itself or is there any programming involved, this should be trivial but then I must be dreaming. Different panels have different efficiencies does it mess up the system ?
 
PS: I will finally get the Startlink HW today and am looking to have fun few day. I think I will also need to get apple tv to change dump rv tv into smart tv Chromecast is another option and decision will be based on power consumption and if outside power is required and socket is present. So far I was streaming by hardwiring cell phone to tv but apple tv will make life little easy. Just trying to have familiar programs and NEWS at regular time to reduce home sickness. We are taking months long trip for last few years but better half still miss home around one month mark though towards the end we are planning the next adventure.

Thanks a lot, I learnt a lot in last few days and sure most of it will surfaced when time come to execute.

Regards,

An update from the folks at RVTravel:

https://www.rvtravel.com/starlink-mobile-broadband-news-rvers-1049b/

"I will have to look for lighter  perhaps flexible ones"

Today's solar panels don't weigh that much (15 pounds/6.8 kilograms in the case of the 100 W Renogy Eclipse panels I mostly use), and I've never had a problem placing panels anywhere it suited me on the roof of a Lazy Daze or Airstream. I wouldn't worry about that.

However, I would definitely avoid flexible panels. For one thing, they are much less durable than rigid panels. Manufacturers know this, and it's reflected in the warranties. Typical rigid panels are warranted for ten years or more. Most flexible panels are warranted for one or two years, if that. I've tried flexible panels in the past, as has a friend of mine, and we saw them fail within a year or so.

Second, solar panels get hot--very hot. In full sunlight, the underside of a solar panel is almost too hot to touch. With a rigid panel, you have an inch or two of air space between the panel and the roof, so air flow can carry away much of that heat. With a flexible panel mounted flat on the roof, the heat is transmitted directly to the coach's interior. It's exactly like painting large areas of your roof black.

"you are putting panels in parallel to increase the voltage and decreasing the current."

No, I'm putting them in series to increase voltage and decrease current.

"does it also mean I do not have to worry about wire gauge and continue to  use factory installed wire"

If your panels on the roof are connected in series, or more likely in series-parallel pairs, you may be able to use the factory-installed wiring. This is something that you'll need to calculate (https://www.nooutage.com//vdrop.htm). There are tradeoffs between series and parallel solar panel connections; they've been discussed elsewhere in this forum and I won't go into them here. Most people put all panels in parallel, and this is what most installers are likely to be familiar with. But in that case it's easy to have so much current that the factory wiring creates serious voltage drop, meaning wasted power. I don't know what the limit is for your rig; you'll have to check before deciding which way to go.

‘Different panels have different efficiencies does it mess up the system ?”

Efficiencies? No. But in a parallel hookup, differing voltages (Vmp) are to be avoided. For example, if you put a 19V panel in parallel with a 16.7 V panel, you’ll get about 16.7 V out. It’s a “lowest common denominator” situation. For series-connected panels, it's the reverse: you want to match current outputs, but voltages can vary.

"Is Solar controller is smart enough to sense the incoming voltage and adjust itself...?"

I don't know what solar controller Lazy Daze installed on your rig, but I wouldn't bet on it. That's something you need to find out. If it's not an MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) controller, the answer is definitely no. For example, if it's described as a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) controller, that means it's not MPPT, and hence is inefficient. In that case, you should replace it.

If it is an MPPT controller, then it will adjust to a range of incoming voltages, but there is an upper limit. For example, I'm currently using a Victron Smart Solar 100/30. It can accept input voltages up to 100 volts, and currents up to 30 amps.

"Just trying to have familiar programs and NEWS at regular time to reduce home sickness."

Understood. At the risk of sounding old-fashioned, there's always shortwave radio (https://www.radioheritage.com/shortwave-stations-in-pakistan/). :-) I don't know what reception is like, but it might be worth a try. Otherwise, streaming seems like the way to go.

Andy, Ron, Larry and other folks who have contributed.

After reading all the valuable input bottom line for me is to first check the Starlink power consumption and if I can manage it with current systems my life will be easy (of course I am assuming that Starlink will work, I already ordered telescopic pole and starlink adaptor and some clamps). If Starlink require more power then current system can support. I think I have enough know how to put one 200ah battery in a Tupperware and wire it with inverter, converter/charger and dc to dc charger. I will just charge it from generator or when motorhome is driven or when we have shore power. If need be I can get bigger or two batteries ....

I hijacked this thread and do apologize for that ... coming back to Starlink good NEWS is I got the Starlink box few minutes ago and no matter how much I want to open it right now, it will be iftar (time to break the fast) soon and last few days of Ramadan are for special prayers and Starlink has to wait for couple of days ...

Take care,

I will be in Moab for 5-6 days in late fall and I think there are quality RV modification shops there. Hope I can find a shop or a person who can put 2-4 additional panels on the roof. I will remember your input and will ask for the best available panels but I do believe LD roof is reinforced to accommodate factory installed panels at specific points. I will have to look for lighter  perhaps flexible ones
Just trying to have familiar programs and NEWS at a regular time to reduce home sickness. We are taking months long trip for the last few years but better half still miss home around one month mark though towards the end we are planning the next adventure.

Avoid flexible panels, they have short lives.
I have installed dozen of solar panels on LDs. There is no need for any roof reinforcement, as Andy pointed out, today's panels are very light. I recently removed two 80-watt panels (one was cracked), installed 18 years ago, replacing them with 100-watt panels. The new panels weigh almost half as much as the old ones and are smaller in size too.

Solar panels can be mounted anywhere there is room.  Bed the panel's feet into polyurethane, and screw them down with short stainless steel sheet metal screws. I use 1"X #8 screws. The screws get a polyurethane topping. Lots of information about this is in the archives.

If adding two to four more panels, you will need to upgrade the lead-in cables, coming down from the roof to the controller and then down to the battery. If not done, much of the extra power will be lost as heat.
The alternative is to go to a higher voltage solar controller and wire the panels in series or series parallel. If LD is still installing Sky Blue 3000i, it should accommodate using 60-cell panels, limited to 22-amps total input.
https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/SB3000i-manual.pdf

When traveling, we stream the same radio programs as we do at home. Sirius-XM also provides some continuity.
And there is always the LDOF online if looking for something familiar.

Larry
 

Thanks Larry. After Andy's message it was pretty clear what need to be done. I still have to make a first hole in the roof though I know after that it will be easy :-) I took your idea of setting the telescopic pole next to ladder. I might be taking Starlink antenna out every time we move .... will see ... making progress.

Apart from kidding ... sitting in the evening together at regular time and having tea and some cookie just like home and  watching NPR does help ..... I continue to deposit, I know I will be withdrawing big time if and when we make the next move.

And I was ready with sleeves up but it simply start working. Still changing direction to find optimum direction but got the connection. Next test test I guess will be 1) speed test in an hour when it is settled 2) more importantly power it from small battery pack to see how long 500w last.

Again, beside wiring connection and naming the Wi-Fi I do not have to do anything. Just keeping it on the corner of the deck which I know is not optimum.

More updates after I check power consumption

Thanks Larry. After Andy's message it was pretty clear what need to be done. I still have to make a first hole in the roof though I know after that it will be easy :-) I took your idea of setting the telescopic pole next to ladder. I might be taking Starlink antenna out every time we move .... will see ... making progress.

Apart from kidding ... sitting in the evening together at regular time and having tea and some cookie just like home and  watching NPR does help ..... I continue to deposit, I know I will be withdrawing big time if and when we make the next move.

Just trying to add a picture first time. Not sure if pic will show up

[attach type=thumb]28727[/attach]

Just trying to add a picture first time. Not sure if pic will show up

Just want to confirm that second generation of starlink use 40W. Much more then I was expecting and need to think how I can mange it with existing resources. Last thing I need is more stuff in limited space but I think I can store solar panel Andy mentioned. Battery bank I have will be good for 2 days if we are careful but it take only about 100W for charging. Oh well … spices of life …. I never charged battery bank with usb c from citrate lighter while driving  time to check that option as well along with efficient solar panel and more panels on roof if/when I find a person/shop to do it properly.
Starlink is holding up pretty good over about 24 hrs. I turned off home router and everything at home is channeling thru starlink without any hickup. I will continue using starlink for few weeks till it is time to pack. II will call it a success with an open issue of power management and will move forward.
Thanks team.

Not important but your Starlink is the third generation. There were two versions of the round antenna.

Right now stock batteries and converter along with two additional batteries are good enough for us
our coach battery hardly goes below 90%.

If I understand correctly, your LD has four deep cycle batteries, a 440-amp/hour battery pack.
Why are you not using its large capacity and instead buying several small portable batteries when you have so much battery power already installed and paid for?

Larry

Larry,

Reason for two smaller battery pack was plan B for bipap and for low watt outside 120V lights. At that time starlink was not in the picture. Two instead of one was to manage weight and space.

I did not forget Andy bring up inverter earlier. I have 300 watt inverter which I will definitely try to use. As for 440ah battery I have 88ah on regular basis (80% as per your directions and assuming solar generate enough to top off battery each day). Our average power consumption is about 44 ah per day which leave 44 ah for starlink which translate to 528W. Good enough for 13 hour use. You are absolutely right, no need to worry .... there are certain assumptions here about solar topping up coach battery on daily basis which happen very rarely and for that weak assumption I do have 1.5 battery bank (leaving half for bipap) which will give me about 750 watt close to 9 additional hours of starlink. I am good.

Andy mentioned pure sine wave converter Amazon.com: BESTEK 1000W Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter DC 12V to 110V AC Car... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XYR1BS3?ie=UTF8&tag=scmcldo-20) and I do have Amazon.com: BESTEK 300W Power Inverter DC 12V to 110V AC Car Inverter with... (https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-300W-Power-Inverter-Adapter/dp/B004MDXS0U/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2JOZEEJ0C1DN1&keywords=BESTEK+300W+Car+Power+Inverter+DC+12V+to+AC+110V+Converter+Outlet+USB+Charger&qid=1651353064&smid=AWZ3LXPHZK09&sprefix=bestek+300w+car+power+inverter+dc+12v+to+ac+110v+converter+outlet+usb+charger%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-5)  I know wattage rating is fine but do anybody know if starlink is sensitive enough to get pure since wave inverter?

If I understand correctly, your LD has four deep cycle batteries, a 440-amp/hour battery pack.
Why are you not using its large capacity and instead buying several small portable batteries when you have so much battery power already installed and paid for?

Larry

Not important but your Starlink is the third generation. There were two versions of the round antenna.

Oh … another reason to feel happy … you warned me to be ready for surprises, so far so good. Are you predicting any bump? This is really a frog leap in our life style and I am glad you shared information here.

 As for 440ah battery I have 88ah on regular basis (80% as per your directions and assuming solar generates enough to top off battery each day).

Andy mentioned a pure sine wave converter Does anybody know if Starlink is sensitive enough to get pure sine wave inverter?

If I said to keep the battery level always at or above 80% of capacity (20% Depth of Discharge), then I was wrong.

You can use 50% of your capacity without excessive long-term damage. Your LD has 180-220-amp-hours of usable capacity.
That should be enough capacity to last for a few cloudy days.
Upgrading to a large converter(100+ amps) would greatly reduce the generator run time when needed. Your 440-amp hour battery can be charged at a much higher rate than what the Factory converter can provide.

Most electronics are happier with a pure sine wave inverter, some electronics do not care, and others will not operate at all.
Smaller pure-sine wave inverters have become more affordable in the last few years, it may be worthwhile upgrading.

Larry

Larry,

As for converter, perhaps now I will appreciate an upgrade ... Is there any converter which easily fit in existing converter space? I know it is a tight space but if converter is the same size and same design perhaps it will be straight forward to replace it. I am finding YouTube to be a good teacher. As for 50%, I like it and as for who mentioned  it, really does not matter. I do trust experts on this forum and perhaps person who mentioned is more conservative.

As for inverter, we have solar at home and Starlink has no issue with pure sine inverter. I really do not want to collect more stuff then I really have to. In few days I will be receiving telescopic pole and clamps and will be working on creating a space for disk on RV. At that time perhaps I can see if existing inverter work in RV and if not I have seen pure sine inverter in Walmart and you are  right electronics is not very expensive.

Regards,

"I use a separate AC charger, 100-200 amps."

I guess I missed the part where you informed Muhammad that in order for your "forget the alternator" statement to be true, he'd need to buy a separate 100-200 amp charger, wire it in, and use it for charging instead of his built-in converter.

suggestion is to keep a separate charger next to existing charger (in MB, next to water pump)?

As for wiring, any pointer to document? Hope there are just two wires from generator and two wires going to battery.

I will not mind spending some extra money to save on labor and make it easier on me .... will it be easier to just take out existing charger and put a big charger and just move the connections from older charger to new one ...  this is what I gather from  from Larry's message.

We will be leaving for a pretty long trip in about four weeks, there is no short trip before then .... If solution need any tricky installation I will not take the risk right now but will take notes and will execute in future.

Regards,

suggestion is to keep a separate charger next to existing charger (in MB, next to water pump)?

As for wiring, any pointer to document? Hope there are just two wires from generator and two wires going to battery.

I will not mind spending some extra money to save on labor and make it easier on me .... will it be easier to just take out existing charger and put a big charger and just move the connections from older charger to new one ...  this is what I gather from  from Larry's message.

We will be leaving for a pretty long trip in about four weeks, there is no short trip before then .... If solution need any tricky installation I will not take the risk right now but will take notes and will execute in future.

Regards,

If you do not have a large lithium battery bank you don’t need a a large AC lithium charger.

If you do not have a large lithium battery bank you don’t need a a large AC lithium charger.

Thanks

In that case, I will wait till electric technology refresh time or perhaps use newly acquired knowledge to ask right question if we decide to upgrade, in any case thanks for educating me… now that I know we can discharge 40-50%, we will be fine with the additional load of Starlink. Not an emergency but whenever I get chance I will simply add more solars which will definitely help. We do not stay long at one place but trend is changing slowly and I see week+ stay at national parks. Although Ron mentioned DC-DC charger but I do notice batteries do get charged very fast during driving. We might already have DC-DC charger though not as high capacity as Ron suggested.

Although Ron mentioned DC-DC charger but I do notice batteries do get charged very fast during driving. We might already have DC-DC charger though not as high capacity as Ron suggested.

The coach battery is charged when the engine is running, there is an isolation relay under the hood on the driver's side that connects the engine's alternator to the coach battery, when the engine is running.

Larry

Isolation  relay is dc-dc charger? I think I understand reason for isolation but not sure what additional function dc-dc charge provide beside connecting coach battery with alternator/engine battery and perhaps right size fuse. Was Ron alluding to getting right size isolation relay to match bigger alternator?

Thanks Larry. And last question, promise …

The coach battery is charged when the engine is running, there is an isolation relay under the hood on the driver's side that connects the engine's alternator to the coach battery, when the engine is running.

Larry

Hi Mohammed;  The DC to DC converter I referred to is best used to pump watts into a LiFePO4 battery. If you have lead acid, that matches the chassis battery, so with the isolation relay connecting all of the batteries in parallel, (while the engine is running), then the charging profiles will match.  RonB

In other words, the isolation relay is not a DC-to-DC charger. It's just a switch.

Andy and Ron, thanks for educating me. Got it pretty well now.

Not an emergency but as soon as I get the opportunity I will get additional solar on the roof. My power need, I think should be fulfilled by current setup and if not, I have enough knowledge to make the right decision.

Regards

In other words, the isolation relay is not a DC-to-DC charger. It's just a switch.

An LD with AGMs and an isolation relay will fully charge the battery, with enough drive time.

A DC to DC charger is normally used with lithium batteries and will provide the proper voltage needed for a full charge.
Without one, the alternator may not be able to fully charge a lithium house battery.

Larry

Roaming or in Starlink world portability is official now and is a additional $25/month option. For my use for at least a year, it is well worth it but if I am stationary, perhaps $50/month Verizon instead of $150/month Starlink may not fly. Just FYI

Roaming or in Starlink world portability is official now and is a additional $25/month option. For my use for at least a year, it is well worth it but if I am stationary, perhaps $50/month Verizon instead of $150/month Starlink may not fly. Just FYI

Muhammad,

Here is a link to an RV Mobile Internet article StarLink Portability (https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/starlink-portability-is-here-enabling-roaming-across-north-america-for-a-price/) that explains in detail about StarLink’s new policy.  There was an earlier article that came out a few hours before this one that kind of misfired.  The one I linked is the later article and goes into roaming on the same continent and prioritizing network speed.  According to this article, it doesn’t look like you will be able to roam outside of North America with a US account.  Hopefully this policy will change before your South America and Antarctica cruise.

- John

Thanks John,

Not even thinking about SA/Antartica right now, preparing for Alaska trip full time. We took long cruises before and they do not take much of preparation compared to DIY road trip, a dedicated professional team is doing every thing and we just get fat with pampering. If Starlink will not be useful for me in six seven months I will simply stop the service. For now I am not turning off home internet and my cell service anyway. I don't think I signed any long term contract with the Starlink, only investment is initial hardware which I know is subsidized anyway.

I hope Starlink definition of North America include Canada. I was going to look for alternative to our Visible cell service as in Canada we can get the calls but cannot initiate calls. I was not aware that we can change the sim card in iPhone but now I am hearing eSim and will be looking at it, that will be plan C now and one thing more on my to do list.

Starlink moved from $90/month to $110 and now $135 and if it works and we continue to travel at the current pace I think it is worth it much more at least for us.  I just wounder why government is not getting involved in providing this type of services, they helped with the internet and GPS .... 

Thanks again John, Starlink is just a tool and I will not pay more attention to their policies as long as it helps I am happy. I must say  crazy founder is very focused on vision and execution and I am very impressed ... Startlink was just the proof of concept that satellites can communicate with each other for long term Mars project and now it seems like it may fund Mars project ...

Regards,

Muhammad,

Here is a link to an RV Mobile Internet article StarLink Portability (https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/starlink-portability-is-here-enabling-roaming-across-north-america-for-a-price/) that explains in detail about StarLink’s new policy.  There was an earlier article that came out a few hours before this one that kind of misfired.  The one I linked is the later article and goes into roaming on the same continent and prioritizing network speed.  According to this article, it doesn’t look like you will be able to roam outside of North America with a US account.  Hopefully this policy will change before your South America and Antarctica cruise.

- John

I hope Starlink definition of North America include Canada.

Yes, both Canada and Mexico are considered part of North America.  According to the linked article: Portability enables use in a different country for 2 months within the same continent as your Service Address, but to permanently move to a different country, you must create a new Starlink account.  So you should be good for your Alaska trip.

- John

Thanks

There are still no satellites over Alaska. Load the Starlink watch app.

Here it is without the app:

Live Starlink Satellite and Coverage Map (https://satellitemap.space/)

There are still no satellites over Alaska. Load the Starlink watch app.

Here it is without the app:

Live Starlink Satellite and Coverage Map (https://satellitemap.space/)

I noticed and better half knows the reality but Alaska is part of US and hoping Visible will work at least in populated areas and if not I am sure there are other options as well in terms of buying pay as you go service ... one of the reason to go for MB instead of TK was hoping for kids to come and join us for few days and it seems like we may get some visitors as well at different part of the trips thanks to remote work arrangements :-) and in that case need for connectivity will diminish.

Starlink is the bonus on top of what we already have and I will take whatever it will offer ... I have high hopes for the potential it has ... I am 62 and if health permit hope we have 10 more years of travelling (we may slowly switch to different mode of easy/pampering travelling style) and I am seeing Starlink as a real game changer to stay in touch while on the road. Our adult kids are happy that we are travelling but I do see worry on their face  whenever we go for long trip and staying in touch release some of the stress. I was in the same situation when my Dad was travelling and do understand the anxiety.

I worked in telecommunication for quite sometime and am fascinated by what Starlink has accomplished in last two years and have some visibility in their plans  .... In late 80s I think it was Motorola which put few satellites in higher orbit with big fanfare and common person like me never saw any benefit from it. My previous employer had big dreams but most of them never go beyond fancy presentations, we never recovered from utility/monopoly mind set and were selling long term plans for short term shareholder gain (and management bonus). Since I left the workforce S&P has jumped up 200+% compared to this my previous employer lost 25% of it's value (means my dreams for cashing on options are just the dreams).

Sorry long answer ... got carried away as usual.

Take care,

"In late 80s I think it was Motorola which put few satellites in higher orbit with big fanfare and common person like me never saw any benefit from it."

You may be thinking of the Iridium satellite constellation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_Communications). It was a commercial failure at the time (too expensive and too limited), but it has since become a useful resource for emergency communication. We talked about it recently in the thread "Sad story (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=37651.msg241697#msg241697)".

Thanks Andy.

Good information in the thread and I will use this information when Starlink is not allowed or will not work .. I was not aware of high orbit satellites are still alive and working after 30 years.

When we go with a group land tour we do have to buy travel insurance and tour company will dictate policy terms and I do not recall a single instance when they do not insist on evacuation/air lift clause. Not happy with travel insurance price tag and I also know it will keep going up with the age. I can complain about the price but I have see it in action many many times during our six month long cruise around the world. Ship can accomodate around 600 passenger and out of 600 about 200 were around the world passengers and rest will change after each segment (trip was divided into six or seven segments). Average age of around the world traveler was 78 years, this is few years ago and we were one of the youngest couple !!!!! Ship will not announce any person passing away (latter I found out that they keep dead body in basement in the same fridge where they store flowers which we see on the table each day). On each port we will see ambulance and folks leaving in stretcher. I was on disabled room right next to the ship clinic and saw perhaps more then I should, lot of older folks falling in the ship and having serious issues.

"In late 80s I think it was Motorola which put few satellites in higher orbit with big fanfare and common person like me never saw any benefit from it."

You may be thinking of the Iridium satellite constellation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_Communications). It was a commercial failure at the time (too expensive and too limited), but it has since become a useful resource for emergency communication. We talked about it recently in the thread "Sad story (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=37651.msg241697#msg241697)".

I have moved from my service address, activated the portability feature, and all is well. It took a few minutes. It would not work without “portability.”

Larry, Andy, Ron and othe experts,
If you have some time I want to pick your brain on this topic ...
I am looking at 175W Monocrystalline Solar Panel | Renogy (https://www.renogy.com/175-watt-monocrystalline-solar-panel/?gclid=CjwKCAjwve2TBhByEiwAaktM1JQEfa9V97zyEFVSBXVSpguCvJLnUQCMKcAO5j975hH-2lri-td1lBoCbq4QAvD_BwE) and hopefully there is enough space to put one and if there is enough space why not two. If you know better flexible panels please let me know, I will be putting lot of time installing them and will not mind spending some extra money getting a better product.

I understand short life span of flexible pannel but they are cheap enough that I will call a victory if they last for 3-5 years and we are able to benefit during that time. When motorhome is not on the road, it is under the cover at home .... we discussed me being scary cat of screwing anything on the roof and woundering if I can use valcro or yet better 3M 5400 fast sealent to afix solar pannel to the roof? In the worst case these panels will loosen away or fly away and as long as they do not hurt anybody I am fine taking that risk (please understand that I called number of places in Elkhart, IN and I kept driving short while in that area to get solar installation done but guess folks are too busy for this small job. I do not want to goto any shop which do not have enough google reviews.
I am not sure what type of wiring is done on the roof (never been there, so far, better half took charge of cleaning the rood while I am working on the walls) but based on your input I think I do need to keep make new solar panels connection in paralle with existing panels (my voltmeter survived) (negative to negative and positive to positive) and solar pannel will do rest of the trick. Is there any wires or special solar connection hardware or tools I will need? I used to have lot of tools but while I was sick lot of folks were coming in and out of the home to take care of basement flooding issue and I noticed most of tools keep walking away slowly. Now I am keeping a very close eyes and buying tools as I need them.

This may not be an elegent or best solution from your point of view but at this point either I have it or nothing additional on top of stock 240W stock pannels. Hope you will understand. Based on the input here I will see if I have enough time to complete the job before leaving in little over two weeks and if not at least I will have soalr pannel at hand and will work on actual installation dring our travel.
Regards,

Avoid flexible panels, they have short lives.
I have installed dozen of solar panels on LDs. There is no need for any roof reinforcement, as Andy pointed out, today's panels are very light. I recently removed two 80-watt panels (one was cracked), installed 18 years ago, replacing them with 100-watt panels. The new panels weigh almost half as much as the old ones and are smaller in size too.

Solar panels can be mounted anywhere there is room.  Bed the panel's feet into polyurethane, and screw them down with short stainless steel sheet metal screws. I use 1"X #8 screws. The screws get a polyurethane topping. Lots of information about this is in the archives.

If adding two to four more panels, you will need to upgrade the lead-in cables, coming down from the roof to the controller and then down to the battery. If not done, much of the extra power will be lost as heat.
The alternative is to go to a higher voltage solar controller and wire the panels in series or series parallel. If LD is still installing Sky Blue 3000i, it should accommodate using 60-cell panels, limited to 22-amps total input.
https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/SB3000i-manual.pdf

When traveling, we stream the same radio programs as we do at home. Sirius-XM also provides some continuity.
And there is always the LDOF online if looking for something familiar.

Larry
 

My suggestion is to make a diagram of your room and find where various size panels will fit.
I have used Renergy panels many times, they seem to work fine. I see no advantage to using flexible panels on a flat roof.

The panels can be glued down without screws, using a 3M 5200 product or 3M VHS  but the result is better with the screws, IMO. AM Solar used 3M VHB double-side tape at one time but has since gone to adhesive and screws.
Screws and 3M 5200 are fine as long as the roof surface is clean and the panel's mounting feet and screws are well bedded in the polyurethane. if you have not noticed, your LD's roof has dozens of screw holes, all well sealed.

To get maximum efficiency, the lead-in cables from the roof should be upsized or the system run at a higher voltage.

Renogy panels
50-watt
Amazon.com : Renogy 50 Watt 12 Volt Monocrystalline Solar Panel (Compact... (https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocrystalline-Efficiency-Charging-Applications/dp/B07GTH79JP/ref=sr_1_31?crid=AO3DKNCR3TSH&keywords=solar%2Bpanels%2B100%2Bwatt&qid=1652281357&refinements=p_89%3ARenogy&rnid=2528832011&s=lawn-garden&sprefix=solar%2Bpanels%2Caps%2C127&sr=1-31&th=1)
100-watt
Amazon.com : Renogy Solar Panel, Single : Patio, Lawn & Garden (https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Monocrystalline-Solar-Panel/dp/B009Z6CW7O/ref=sr_1_25?crid=AO3DKNCR3TSH&keywords=solar+panels+100+watt&qid=1652281357&refinements=p_89%3ARenogy&rnid=2528832011&s=lawn-garden&sprefix=solar+panels%2Caps%2C127&sr=1-25)
175-watt
Amazon.com: Renogy 175 Watt 12 Volt Monocrystalline Off Grid Large System... (https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-175-Watt-Volt-Monocrystalline/dp/B08CMCZV9J/ref=asc_df_B08CMCZV9J?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80058307912324&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583657836104051&th=1)
200-watt
Renogy 200W Watt 12V Volt Monocrystalline Solar Panel PV Power High Efficienc... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/203841311215?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1gl-e3tMOTEa1wWvdJPiAYA15&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=203841311215&targetid=4580702891777577&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=418640321&mkgroupid=1233652283797640&rlsatarget=pla-4580702891777577&abcId=9300602&merchantid=51291&msclkid=05b25a72b02e19a3a5343809637fd6b0)

Larry

Muhammad,

Here is a link to AM Solar. Solar Power Parts & Supplies, Solar Panel Products & Kits: AM Solar (https://amsolar.com/products)

Looking through their product listings you will find their available “mounting hardware” listings.

When they installed my system, they did not screw through my LD roof but instead glued everything to the roof. Nearly 800 watts of combined panels in total. Fit nicely. Two 190 watt panels, two 90 watt panels, two 115 watt panels on the roof. No screws and the ability to set each on an angle if I desire. Your available roof space may be a bit different than mine.

Flexible panels get hot and reduce their ability to produce energy. Perhaps a suitcase array may work. I’m not sure how practical it would be to set one up on the roof (weights on their legs?) my portable suitcase system is 230 watts. Weighs under 50 pounds and I store it in the overhead while traveling.

Here’s a pic of my roof.

Kent

I agree with others that flexible panels are a bad idea. But the 175 watt Renogy panel that Muhammad mentioned is not a flexible panel, as the illustrations on Renogy's product page show.

Larry's suggestion to make a diagram of your roof is a good one. If you or someone you know has a drone that's capable of pointing its camera straight down, fly it directly above your rig and shoot a photo of the roof to help with your planning.



Another thing you can do is to get some large cardboard cartons (https://www.homedepot.com/s/carton?NCNI-5) (available at hardware stores) and use them as material to make life-sized flat pieces the size of the solar panels you plan to install. You can place these on the roof (you can make just one and move it around) to check where the panels will best fit.

"woundering if I can use valcro or yet better 3M 5400 fast sealent to afix solar pannel to the roof?"

Don't even think about attaching solar panels with Velcro. When you're driving down the road at 55-65 mph, the wind will get under the panel and lift it right off.

"In the worst case these panels will loosen away or fly away and as long as they do not hurt anybody I am fine taking that risk"

You should not be. A rigid solar panel that flies off your roof at highway speed could easily kill the occupants of the vehicle behind you. And if you think flexible panels (which are actually semi-rigid) are harmless, imagine yourself driving down the road when the vehicle ahead of you sheds a two foot by four foot black object that comes flying at your windshield. Your probable reaction: panic, swerve, crash.

Ken, Larry, Andy and rest of the team,

You are keeping me straight .... and thank you. We will be passing with in 5 miles from AM Solars on our way  back while going from Seattle to Crator lake. Instead of screwing up the system let me call and see if they can accomodate me .. unfortunately we will be pressing for time due to Crator Lake NP season ending  but lets see if with right homework AM Solars can design the system in advance and just install it in matter of hours (may be I am dreaming but who knows). In the mean time I will keep my eyes open for other reputable shops on our way.

There are few other issues I am been seeking this teams input and insight:

I screwed up generator few days ago, it is fixed now. I found an efficient Cumin sales service center not very far away from home. They prepared me for the worst case senatio but it end up just the nut/bold issue. What surprise me is that service center did not have this bolt in the stock and it took them two days to get it but no complains at all. Been a while since I screwed up this much.

Other issue was getting a Ford dealership to fix safety recall. After playing nice and getting polite run around for four weeks, I end up calling chain of command and also wrote not a very nice review on google. I was not expecting much and thought I will find a Ford dealer on my way but to my surprise I got a call two days after writing the review and magically they are able to accomodate me. Hope issue will be fixed tomorrow.

I do take few controlled meds ... some of them are in the pump and it last for six months. Getting oral meds will be an issue and I will be fighting the issue while travelling. While in other countries finding the replcement without prescription is very cheap and easy but in US ... we will find out. I hope these chain phamacies and mail order phamacy will talk to each other almost in real time.

Life is good and looking forward to start life long dream in two weeks but before that celebrating the youngest ones graduation. No more tuition and boarding bills, Yaaaaa

Cheers

Muhammad, if CVS is an option for you, I’ve had good luck in the past getting my prescriptions filled across the country. They will contact my “home” CVS and temporarily transfer the prescription for filling. Good luck!  — Jon

Muhammad, if CVS is an option for you, I’ve had good luck in the past getting my prescriptions filled across the country. They will contact my “home” CVS and temporarily transfer the prescription for filling. Good luck!  — Jon

Jon & Loni,
Do prescriptions refill work the same way in Canada as in US? I will be in YellowStone for six days and hoping to get refills before crossing the border but guess for few medications pharmacist do not want to refill a day before they are due. One of the doctor will not allow refill and everytime I will have to call and this is university hospital and turn around is not very great. Sometime they just foget that I do have the entire reservoir of hydromorphone inside my skin in case I want to abuse ....

Plan is to keep all the prescriptions at the mail in pharmacy and if I need a refill I will goto closet retail chain parmacy and ask them to call mail in pharmacy and get just one refill authorization. Mail in pharmacy gave me a telephone number just for this reaon. Fortunately all the systems are linked now, when I goto mail in pharmacy web site, I also see the medications I received from local pharmacy.

Fortunately I do not have to worry about all the medications.  I checked and I do have enough meds for six months for all the meds except for three or four.

Thanks

Starlink for RVs now available with the ability to pause service.

Immediate delivery.

Just an FYI