I’m going to install a gasoline fueled heater. I would like to understand more of the Lazy Daze floor construction before I start making holes in it. How thick is it to the underside metal plate? Are there structural ribs in it? Any insulation I can deal with.
If I can’t find the info I’ll just start drilling, small holes first but it would be nice to know ahead of time.
Forty two gallons of useable fuel would equal 50 gallons of propane which would equal five full propane tanks. I should be able to survive a Texas freeze!
My extra compartments are full of batteries and such but I have found a location. The propane furnace stays.
Will let you know how it goes. Will take a few months as heaters are back ordered.
Gasoline heaters have maintenance issues and not as reliable as propane (carbon deposits) but I am willing to deal with them. I’m tired of chasing propane in the winter.
Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner. I took a pic but forgot to post.
https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=603
edit....different link to the album
Looks like 1.5 inches ;)
Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner. I took a pic but forgot to post.
https://www.lazydazeowners.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=4454
Looks like 1.5 inches ;)
Please note that I’m unable to view your album. Have you made it public?
Having issues making the album public....
The screws at the 12 or 12 inch mark can be seen in the exposed pics.
Thank you. 1.5 inches of solid wood. Compliments on the major reconstruction in progress.
Not any interest here in a gasoline heater but I’ll report when I get it done. Heater back ordered but everything else ready to go. Won’t begin till it arrives.
Harry-
Here are two solutions to "chasing propane."
1) Install a Camco Extend-a-Stay adapter between the tank valve and the regulator, then use portable propane cylinders, rather than the built-in propane tank. Other manufacturers make an equivalent adapter.
2) Contact the local propane supplier to place a 100-gallon cylinder and connect it to the built-in propane tank's inlet.
I use the first solution, and have read posts on the second.
Many years ago I had a friend whose car caught fire due to a gasoline heater leak. So, I don't trust them.
Mark H.
Not any interest here in a gasoline heater but I’ll report when I get it done. Heater back ordered but everything else ready to go. Won’t begin till it arrives.
I’m interested in your project BUT I’m also slightly more than terrified to use a gasoline heater. I’d much prefer a propane heater, a wood burning stove, more clothes, hot water bottles than messing around with gasoline. But that’s just us.
I’m interested in your project BUT I’m also slightly more than terrified to use a gasoline heater. I’d much prefer a propane heater, a wood burning stove, more clothes, hot water bottles than messing around with gasoline. But that’s just us.
I can’t defend it because I don’t have one yet. A lot of class B’s use them and semi truck sleepers use the diesel version as do diesel pushers. I’ll T off the generator fuel line. Propane lines are copper, generator fuel lines are not. Fuel pressure and volume is trivial. There will be no explosions but the possibility of a leak and fire are real, but less than the probability of a propane leak and boom. The downside is it is an added risk, not in place of.
Propane is probably inherently more dangerous. I have no interest in carrying around a portable propane bottle. I do have the Extend-a-Stay type fitting.
Webasto is the brand. Haven’t heard of any Webasto fires yet but the plastic fuel line has got my attention. Even if I use copper the fittings are not threaded. If I smoke it you will be the second to know!
Sorry, that pic is a little misleading, The floor is NOT solid. Most of it is 1/2 Oriented Strand Board - OSB with insulation down to the metal. There are 2x2 (1.5x1.5 actual) cross beams and a frame. Here is a pic from when I removed the battery compartment due to rot and installed solar and more batteries underneath.
Thanks, I’ll need to probe to miss the ribs. I need a 4” hole. Your project is amazing. Nearly done.
I’ll line the 4” hole with a metal tube and insulate the exhaust pipe to keep things from torching off.
We had a local couple using a motorhome in the winter. They passed away peacefully from carbon monoxide poisoning because the generator exhaust pipe was broken off and didn't extend past the edge of the motorhome. Surrounding snow banks prevented good air circulation under the rig.The news article didn't say the age or brand of motorhome. If there are any 'through floor' holes that aren't sealed really well, CO can accumulate underneath, penetrate and rise up into the rig.
My wifes old Corvair had a gasoline based heater in the front trunk. (Rear engine). We used it but trust was a concern. Webasto is a good brand, as far as I've heard.
I'm interested in how this turns out. A good electrical connection, shore power, sounds a lot more practical to me. RonB
I'm interested in how this turns out. A good electrical connection, shore power, sounds a lot more practical to me. RonB
I signed off of RV parks when the rates passed $50/night. Haven’t been in one in three years. I can pay the higher rates but now prefer the off grid camping. No reservations, no signing in, leave when I want and I have become addicted to free. Each location has it’s issues. Sometimes it is water, sometimes it is propane, sometimes it is trash, sometimes cell service. TV is the KVH A9 phased array antenna.
I signed up for Starlink even tho their RV antenna is not out yet. Moab will open up for service by the end of the year, they said.
I use a heated mattress pad for nighttime heating and just need something to get from 40F to 70F in the morning. Gasoline ought to do the trick. A gasoline furnace is safer than a propane furnace but in this case it is an additional risk, not instead of.
Will let you know how it goes. Not thrilled about the plastic fuel line but it T’s into the generator rubber fuel line which is no better and it isn’t under pressure like propane. Might replace it with or put it inside copper.
"My wifes old Corvair had a gasoline based heater in the front trunk. (Rear engine). We used it but trust was a concern."
This was GM's attempt to remedy a serious problem with early Corvairs (including the van versions): unlike water-cooled cars that run hot engine coolant through an internal heater core, the Corvairs' air-cooled engines used an exhaust-system heat exchanger to heat the cabin... and if it leaked, which was reportedly common, it bled exhaust gases into the cabin.
(VW Beetles, also air-cooled, used a similar system, but apparently it was better engineered, so CO leakage was uncommon. VW offered a gasoline-fired auxiliary heater in some models; I don't know how safe it was, but it was reportedly not a popular choice.)
The Corvair CO leakage issue led to a number of lawsuits after some owners were permanently brain-damaged due to chronic CO inhalation. It was worst for small mobile business owners, some of whom drove the vans more or less all day, five days a week. GM settled in most cases, with a non-disclosure provision that prevented owners from talking about their cases or what they were paid to keep silent. (Does this sound like a conspiracy theory? Unfortunately, it isn't. That kind of nondisclosure-contingent settlement is common in product liability cases.)
I had a VW Karman Ghia "sports" car with a gasoline heater mounted in the front trunk. It always made me a little nervous, but living in upstate NY, it was a necessity at times.
I use a Mr. Buddy heater with the small bottles. Then I refill the small bottles with a 25lbs tank. Filling the bottle up half way gives it just the amount of run time for me to take the edge off and not use the RV tank. Good luck with the 4 inch hole. I drilled a 1.5 inch hole and conduit to get the 4/0 cables and water fill through the floor for the added battery capacity as I don't have a generator.
I use a Mr. Buddy heater with the small bottles. Then I refill the small bottles with a 25lbs tank. Filling the bottle up half way gives it just the amount of run time for me to take the edge off and not use the RV tank. Good luck with the 4 inch hole. I drilled a 1.5 inch hole and conduit to get the 4/0 cables and water fill through the floor for the added battery capacity as I don't have a generator.
I noticed your water line. I’ve got all parts and tools ready to go. All I need is the unit. $700 from Russia, $1600 from the US or UK. Only the US unit has a warranty. They are all back ordered for some reason. No one has explained the $900 difference in price. $1600 is just too much for such a small furnace. China sells copies for $200 that some have had good results with. I’m just not willing to go there.
We all solve our problems in different ways. I have a Wave 6 catalytic heater. For handy nothing can beat the Mr. Buddy with the small bottles. Move it into place and light it off. I tried the generator and the Pelonis, not enough BTUs and rude to use the generator sometimes. Not sure the Webasto 2000 is big enough (6800 BTU) but I expect it is as I’m only dealing with mild freezing conditions. Not trying to cope with a Texas freeze. They have a 5500 version with the same mounting footprint so I’ll make sure there is room for it.
We use a Mr. Buddy and love it. We loaned it to friends whose RV was colder than ours last week and they bought one the next day.
I use a Webasto diesel furnace in our boat and it is excellent and trouble free.
I used to own a Corvair Spyder, a turbocharged death-trap. In addition to the inherent stability problems, at high rpm's the turbocharger would blow excessive boost which would leak past the tired rings, positively pressurize the crankcase, causing oil to blow out the dipstick hole. This oil would then flow down over the cylinders cooling fins and smoke. When I turned on the heater and the defroster, it would blow burned oil smoke all over the inside of the windshield and into the passenger compartment. Unsafe at any speed?
Fortunately for me, our local Hell's Angels neighbors at that time stole the car, stripped it, and shot it full of holes. I bought another car and moved to another neighborhood.
I'd treat a gasoline furnace with caution.
Harold
I'd treat a gasoline furnace with caution.
The heaters are safe. Diesel is a safer fuel than gasoline. The only vulnerability is the fuel line so put the pump close to the heater and armor the fuel line and all should be well. Fuel pressure is very low and is delivered in pulses. Most of the fuel line is under negative pressure which is why deteriorating generator fuel lines don’t cause fires.
I find no reports of Webasto fires, diesel or gasoline. Post if you find any. Propane fires and booms, of course, are another matter.
Like I said, if I smoke it you will be the second to know.
LD floor construction is 3/8 OSB with some framing and sheet metal on the bottom as the other person said.
I just kissed some framing. It is better to be lucky than smart!
Thanks for the pictures. Good to see a modicum of floor insulation. At least psychologically that will help us stay warmer this winter😄
We have heat! I realize people won’t be interested in this unless propane goes to $12 a gallon so won’t start a new thread. Exterior exhaust system and internal duct work yet to complete but it passed the smoke test.
No problems at startup. Fuel pump primed itself and lit off on the first try.
As you can tell it is placed between the water tank and behind the edge of the couch on a rear bath. One more picture or two when I get it all put back together.
Absolutely no use of otherwise usable space. Gonna beat the functionality of a Wave 6 by far. Don’t even have to store it. It will require more maintenance.
This is an interesting project. It is outside the conventional wisdom and adds a novel idea to the conversations. Thanks for sharing it and including photos.
Harold
The opening is used to attach the insulated ducting to the furnace. I didn’t order the “smart controller” with the furnace. A mistake. I also need more exhaust piping.
The controller will be placed at the head of the overhead bunk viewable from below.
The latest “smart controller”, I’m told, will not work with the Russian version of the furnace. I have since ordered the smart controller from Russia, to be sure it is compatible, and it is coming by snail express. The furnace was shipped DHL air.
The install process was a major PIA. Many trips to the hardware store. I would not recommend it to be professionally installed where you have to pay for them to learn the process. Parts to install came from VMACS, in Virginia, Heatso in the UK and Heat4you in Russia. No one sells an install kit that has everything you need.
They do have complete install kits for the Ford Transit, Mercedes Sprinter, and Chrysler Promaster. The LD requires longer ducting, longer exhaust pipe, protected 4” hole through the wood floor and a T to tap into the generator fuel line. I did add a one way check valve between the fuel T and the generator. Don’t know if it is necessary but think it is.
Install complete. Looks like 1.5 amps full bore with 3-6 amps or so at startup and shutdown. Probably quieter than the Suburban inside but outside it just roars. Installed the muffler today.
In the middle of it all the catalytic converter took a walk. Note the painted converter with the CatCage in the background.
Hi Hbn7hj; So by 'took a walk' you mean someone stole your converter? So the paint is for someone else to identify it faster the next time it gets stolen? How does the cat cage stack up to other methods of preservation? I was going to have my welder friend do some extra welding on my catalytic converter assembly, while he is visiting here in a few weeks.
And I'm very impressed with your installation of a gasoline heater. I think my fix, if I ever needed more heat, would just be an extra propane tank. Or to replace my eight gallon tank with a 15 gallon, like the 27' LD's have. Also I don't have as large a gasoline tank either, with just the 37 gallon vs. the 55 gallon most of you have. RonB
Hi Hbn7hj; So by 'took a walk' you mean someone stole your converter? So the paint is for someone else to identify it faster the next time it gets stolen? How does the cat cage stack up to other methods of preservation? I was going to have my welder friend do some extra welding on my catalytic converter assembly, while he is visiting here in a few weeks.
Yep, stole it. If I had more time I would have put in the Cat Strap, which I have on order. I usually keep the LD in the backyard but a water leak saturated the ground. It is so easy to steal a cat from an E450. No jack required. I needed it fixed ASAP and didn’t want it in the driveway without some protection. The Cat Cage is ugly. We will see if it works.
Midas seemed to think painting it and putting on the VIN number offers a lot of protection. I don’t see it but maybe so. Supposedly they can’t sell a painted and marked cat and therefore will leave it alone.
And I'm very impressed with your installation of a gasoline heater. I think my fix, if I ever needed more heat, would just be an extra propane tank. Or to replace my eight gallon tank with a 15 gallon, like the 27' LD's have. Also I don't have as large a gasoline tank either, with just the 37 gallon vs. the 55 gallon most of you have. RonB
If I was moving every few days propane wouldn’t be a problem but I don’t. I carry water in containers, use the black tank sparingly, dump the gray water when no one is looking, and dump the trash on my errands. Moving to get propane every two weeks due to the furnace was a major inconvenience. One place I frequent the propane place never answers the phone or mans the pump. They do deliver to dispersed camping but you have to leave a message and wait. I just solved it my way.
Looks like the furnace will be the same as a Wave 6 without the hassle. Just reach over and turn
it on in the morning and wait till things warm up to get out of bed. Hot air is better than radiant heat anyhow. It is a bit of a hassle to start a Wave 6 when it is 35F inside and no more storage and setup hassle. Will let you know how it works in March.
I didn’t realize it but the Webasto furnace is variable output. It gets to temp, throttles down and purrs along at low output. Blower speed is variable and the flame fed by a variable pulse rate fuel pump. Much better than the on/off style of the Suburban.
The Propane Suburban has been outclassed!
Looks like the heated mattress pad is not needed anymore! Low 30’sF. Furnace set around 60F. It just hums away all night long using half the power of the Suburban or half the power of the mattress pad. No clue how much fuel it used but with a 55 gallon tank (42 usable) don’t really care. No on off, just constant warm air all night long.
Had some trouble with the ducting I can fix. Pretty happy with it. Nice to wake up to a warm house and a full propane tank.
Spent two weeks in Borrego Springs with nighttime temps in the 30’s, now at Grand Canyon with nighttime temps in the 20’s.
It looks like gasoline use is about 5 gallons per week with about an hour’s generator use per day and the furnace. That permits an ability to go without energy resupply of two months, longer than I will ever use. The fridge will run two months on the propane tank.
No longer any need to put a blanket up to isolate the cab. Really happy with it. The 1/3rd the cost purchase option is no longer available with Russia being the source.
What I don’t understand is why the Webasto, with half the BTU rating of the Suburban, is doing a better job keeping the coach warm in cold temperatures. Maybe it has something to do with trying to conserve propane. I don’t care how much gasoline is used.
It appears that 20-25F is the lower limit that the gasoline furnace can maintain 70F in the coach without insulation efforts such as blanket over the cab entry or window covers.
Three and a half weeks of 30s night time temps used 27 gallons of gasoline and 8 gallons of propane. The furnace uses 8AH of electrical power overnight. Generator runs were 1-2 hours per day. Internal temp was 69F all night.
Works very well though I was surprised at the gasoline use. I don’t have any way to separate generator fuel use from furnace fuel use.
Bottom line is the gasoline furnace works very well and hasn’t burned the place down.