We have a 1 3/4 year old 2019 LD 27' Mid Bath. The bathroom sink has 6 cracks in it. At least one is leaking through a little. The only time we put the stopper in, and water in it, is to rinse a washcloth twice a day. Otherwise we use it to brush teeth and wash hands. The sink did clog up once and we put boiling dish soapy water in it to clear the clog which worked. It is also is a little rougher, like it is wearing the finish off, up to the level where the water is put to rinse the washcloth. The water to rinse the washcloth is warm but never very hot. We don't care too much about looks, just want the sink to work. Does anyone have any suggestions on fixing the leaks? I see fiberglass repair kits, but we cannot get to the bottom of the sink without removing the sink and are hoping we can repair it just from the top. I am also a little concerned about the safety of us sanding down the cracks on top and repairing it with a fiberglass kit. I attached a picture of the larger cracks.
Has anyone else had this problem with their fiberglass sink? Any suggestions?
Thank you!
Your rig is nearly new, Bonnie, and the problem is certainly covered under warranty. I'd say your first move should be to call the factory.
We did call the factory, but the warranty is one year. So far they suggested flexseal but I am not sure if it will really work, and concerned about washing our face with water that was in flexseal coating.
How disappointing. This should not happen with such a new sink. Can you use the flex seal on the bottom side? I’d have to do some research, I don’t know if there is anything toxic in flexseal. Personally, I like marine adhesives, I think they are better quality and longer lasting. I would look for a clear sealant myself if using on the top side. You may also be able to fix the cracks with an epoxy, then paint the sink with a marine top coat paint...it may look new again.
Update: Flexseal is not safe for potable water. I would be leery using it inside my sink, but that’s my opinion.
“According to FDA regulations, the typical clear finishes that dry to a hard film, including polyurethane, are considered food safe. Wait to use the surface until the finish is completely dried, and clean it before allowing food contact. ... However, you will not have any problem applying polyurethane over the shellac.” Google
We did call the factory, but the warranty is one year. So far they suggested flexseal but I am not sure if it will really work, and concerned about washing our face with water that was in flexseal coating.
I should think the manufacturer of the sink would provide a longer warranty than 1 year. Were I you, I'd press them for replacement and raise some heck if they resist. Dometic replaced my toilet bowl 9 years and 11 months into a 10 year warranty when I sent them photos of a hairline-cracked bowl.
Chris
We only contacted LD, not the sink manufacturer. We will explore contacting the sink manufacturer with LD.
So the actual material is important. Mine is acrylic. If it is fiberglass for your sink, then it would be a 'sprayed into the form' gelcoat. That is usually a styrene monomer. Bondo would be the choice for a repair, a polyester resin. Dig out a crack slightly, fill it with catalyzed resin. It hardens fast. Sand level and paint with an acrylic paint. An epoxy paint might be more durable.
While the surface could probably be temperature proof to boiling water, I could see where thermal shock could separate the layers used to make fiberglass. So that could be the problem. If you have a clog in the plumbing, flexible plastic tools are safer to use.
Something like this Amazon.com: 7Pack Drain Clog Remover Tool,20Inch Hair Drain Clog Tool(6PCS)+1... (https://www.amazon.com/Remover-Stainless-Flexible-Bathroom-Cleaning/dp/B08YWNG61S/ref=asc_df_B08YWNG61S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=507755833368&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9022351979927567752&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061201&hvtargid=pla-1251904893248&psc=1) RonB
I would definitely coat the underneath of the bowl completely with a waterproof sealant, such as 3M 5200 FC, but still sand and seal the cracks in the top surface of the bowl as needed to avoid bacterial growth.
Steve
That sink should not have failed with normal use. I’d press the factory once more for a replacement. If you are relatively close to the factory, ask if they will at least inspect the sink for a manufacturing flaw. If that’s a dead end I’d follow up with the suggestion above and contact the manufacturer for relief.
If the factory and manufacturer refuses all assistance, ask if you can at least buy a replacement at cost.
Finally, some DIY LD owners have replaced the entire BR sink and shelf with a piece of hardwood and a drop-in sink. Frankly that will last longer and look better than a patch job on on the sink that should NOT have failed.
Hope this helps.
Leaks should be sealed from the side with the liquid, not from the outside, to do so will trap water inside the sink material.
If the sink will not be replaced under warranty, I would use a clear penetrating sealer, the type used on grout and stone countertops, applied from the inside of the sink. It may take several applications to totally seal the cracks but should result in a next to invisible repair. These sealers are food-safe, made for use in kitchens
Since the sink is not used for food preparation, a penetrating sealer such as Loctite 290 could also be used, a product I have used for years to seal tiny leaks and porosity in all sorts of solid materials.
Having cracks in such a new sink is not common, LD should do something about this or help you get satisfaction from the manufacturer. BTW, the sinks can be very difficult to remove, depending on how much adhesive was used.
Avoid pouring boiling water down any plastic sink, I wouldn't mention doing this when trying to get it replaced under warranty.
Larry
IF you search amazon, there are patch kits for fiberglass tubs/sinks. This is the same thing the "pros" use when they come do a patch (often before painting the tub/sink). It is a 2 part, mix, then apply fairly smooth, then sand .. application. Made for sinks so should be good for potable water but check. Made for exactly what you are doing.
Here are a couple:
one fiberglass patch kit (https://www.amazon.com/Repair-Acrylic-Porcelain-Fiberglass-Countertop/dp/B07X35ZJYQ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=tub+patch&qid=1622253335&sr=8-3)
Here is another one that includes the ability to color match (but look at the reviews, not so easy sometimes) Fiberglass patch with color matching (https://www.amazon.com/Fiberglass-Porcelain-Biscuit-Odorless-Bathtub/dp/B07VR1RR86/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=tub+patch&qid=1622253335&sr=8-1)
These products are not end all be all, drop only soft things on them or they can crack/chip.
I have used the paint products with great success for shower stall bottoms (the plastic like molded non smooth ones).
I am about to try out the product above but I won't know how well it works for another 6 months or so.
Jane
We only contacted LD, not the sink manufacturer. We will explore contacting the sink manufacturer with LD.
Sorry that you are having to deal with such an issue. Best of luck with contacting the manufacture, and I hope you can get the problem addressed. Please let the group know of the outcome.
At this point we are talking with LD and with the bathroom sink manufacturer (there is a little conflict between them. LD has switched manufacturer). They both seem to be trying to help us. They both say this should not have happened. LD said they have never seen this before. LD is going to check more and get back with us next week. The sink manufacturer is going to contact someone who could repair the sink that is near where we are (they called the cracks "blisters"). LD at this point is saying fix it don't replace it, because fixing is easier and a better option, because it is more complicated to replace it. We drove by a fiberglass repair place today and he said he could fix it for about $500, or it would cost about the same for him to put the new sink in if LD sent one. He was leaning toward replace not fix. The fiberglass repair place today said probably when they were making the sink it got water in it and caused the problem.
My concern is what if they fix it and it cracks more. But we are leaning toward doing what they recommend to protect ourselves a little more. We have been bouncing back and forth on what to do. Really appreciate everyone putting in their 2cents worth. We pondered replacing it with wood and a stainless sink, but also sounds like finding a sink might be tricky. And since we are not handy in this area sounds like it could be costly (We talked to a RV place that said they would put in a corian counter and sink for about $1500-$1700, but he said finding a sink might be tricky.)
Once we get more information and make a decision I will give an update. In the meantime appreciate anything anyone has to say.
Thanks!!
Thanks for the update, Bonnie. Keep us posted on how it goes.
If a new sink is available, changing it will be the best long-term option...no matter who pays or it.
Removing the old sink can be a chore. I would cover the whole countertop in a minimum of two layers of masking tape, for protection, Use a 1' wide thin, flexible putty knife, sharpened to a sharp edge, to cut under the sink's lip, working round and round until it is cut free.
It will take time, LD glued the sink so it would never loosen on its own.
Larry
The sink may have a manufacturing defect or, as has been suggested, the boiling water used to unclog the sink drain may have caused the cracks.
You might want to prevent clogs by using stainless steel mesh sink drain strainers; this is one example. The strainers are available at Home Depot and several other places in addition to Amazon.
4pcs Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Slop Basket Filter Trap, 2.75" Top / 1" Mesh... (https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Strainer-Perfect-Kitchen-Bathroom/dp/B08YMWR9T1/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+sink+strainer&qid=1622309080&sr=8-15)
Cleaning the sink drains with a "blast" of white vinegar and baking soda is very effective; shake a few tablespoons of baking soda into the drain, then pour about 1/2 cup of white vinegar over the baking soda. The resulting "foam up" dislodges crud and build-up; repeat if necessary.
The mesh screens keep food particles and whatnot out of the grey tank, and help to prevent any buildup of nasty stuff in the drains and tank. Cleaning the screens is simple; tap the screen against the inside of the trash can to remove collected bits. Scrub the screens with an old toothbrush when needed.
If you don't already do this, I suggest scraping your dishes and pots and pans with a rubber/silicone spatula and wiping out any additional food residue with paper towels before washing the dishes; this will go a long way to keeping drains and sinks working properly. (And, I'm sure you know not to pour grease down the sink drain; if I have grease to dispose of, I make a "cup" of aluminum foil, pour in any oil or grease, fold over the top of the cup, and put it in the trash. Or, if you have a can handy, pour the grease into that for disposal.)
Additionally, acrylic or fiberglass sinks are best "scrubbed" with a very mild abrasive cleaner; I've used Bon Ami for many years, and recommend it.
YMMV, as always.
"...if I have grease to dispose of..."
This is an item I have used to great advantage for several years, both in the Lazy Daze and at home! Doesn't take up much space and keeps everything neat and tidy. Recommend it highly. ;)
Amazon.com: Fat Trapper System/Grease Storage Container with TWELVE Disposabl... (https://www.amazon.com/Trapper-System-Storage-Container-Disposable/dp/B07F2P49WV/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=1332608657072418&dchild=1&hvadid=83288111960272&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=43604&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83288383284968%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=15247_10678044&keywords=fat+trapper&qid=1622311341&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE4U1dESkdCQ1ZHS0wmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA1NTgwMjgxNlNPN0lFSk9YU1VaJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwMzAyODhKQVQ2QVEwT0YzNDgmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl)
Our bathroom sink was replaced a month ago. Todd from Lazy Daze talked to the owner and he said replacing it was better than fixing it. They sent us a replacement sink/counter like the old one (slightly different color). Cost $200 which included shipping. He indicated he was giving us a discount and paying the shipping. We had Dave & LJ’s RV Furniture in Woodland Washington install it ($300) We talked to several people about it and everyone indicated it was probably a manufacturing issue. The new sink has mesh on the bottom of it, which the old sink did not. The new sink looks more durable. I was hoping to replace it with a wood counter and a stainless steel sink but Dave & LJ's indicated there was not a stainless steel sink that small.
The sink drain would get something strange down below the bottom of the sink plug that acted like the spray foam that expands. It would grow and I would knock it out a few times and I think that is what plugged the drain. It was brown, and like a glob of rubbery mass. It was below the drain so it could only go down. It has not done it since we got the new sink. It was strange, I could never figure out what it was. We never put grease or anything down either of the sinks. In the kitchen, I always wipe off dishes really well before washing them. The bathroom sink that had the problem only gets toothpaste, mouth wash and hand washing soap put down it. So I don't have a clue about the brown gunk. At this point the sink issue is done and we are moving on to the next issues of life. :-)
Thank you all for your feedback.
I’ve heard positive reports of the products and services provided by Dave and LJ’s; were you satisfied with their work?
We are very satisfied with Dave & LJ's work. We were there about 3 hours for the work. They were able to do it quickly, where other places were to busy. My husband noticed their ad in Motorhome Magazine for years.
Thank you Bonnie for following up with this information. It's always nice to hear about a good result and IMO, it's very polite to "close out" a topic. So thank you.
drain would get something strange down below the bottom of the sink plug that acted like the spray foam that expands. It would grow and I would knock it out a few times and I think that is what plugged the drain. It was brown, and like a glob of rubbery mass. It was below the drain so it could only go down. It has not done it since we got the new sink. It was strange, I could never figure out what it was. We never put grease or anything down either of the sinks.
I have no idea what the blockage was but have a way to keep the drains clean besides using a drain strainer to keep as much as possible out of the drains and tank.
While servicing the rig at home, I blow the sinks and shower drain out using a hose and pistol nozzle, aiming the nozzle down each drain and blasting it, a little blowback is always possible. It does a good job of keeping the drains clear.
Shower drains should be checked occasionally for hair build-up, my wife's long hair produces ropes in the drain.
Larry
White vinegar and baking soda make an effective “boil up” drain cleaner for an RV bathroom and kitchen sink and shower.
Using stainless steel mesh strainers in the drains helps to keep yucky stuff out of the pipes and tanks.
Thank you Bonnie for the follow-through. I’ve read your story with interest as it unfolded. And, I’m glad that the matter is resolved, even if not covered under warranty.
I also wish to thank Joan for the steel mesh strainer suggestion. We began using them in our shower and sink drains after reading one of Joan’s posts a few years ago. We’ve also followed the oft suggested “wipe out your dishes before washing” routine (to prevent introducing oil/grease into the gray plumbing system). Touching wood, we’ve had no drain issues to date.
Warren
We are really bummed. Our 6 week old, new bathroom sink has a crack starting in it that I can feel when I run my fingers around the sink. We are struggling to figure out why this is happening again. We only brush teeth, rinse with mouthwash, hand wash, and my husband pours in water that is at or below 120 degrees. So at this point we are trying to figure out if he cannot pour 120 degree water in the sink. He generally heats 3 cups of water and pours it over his face cloth that is in the sink, to wash his face in the morning and evening - sometimes he adds a little cold water in the sink before or after pouring the warm water in. That is the only thing we can figure out that is causing the sink to crack. He put a thermometer in the water last night to see how warm he makes it - it was 119 degrees. He is sensitive to hot water (as well as cold) so I am certain he does not go above 120. We generally only run the hot water heater when we take showers, so he heats the water in the microwave or a kettle for washing his face.
My question is: Does anyone out there have a fiberglass sink and you pour water that is about 120 degrees in it?
Since we got the sink the temperature in the RV has never gone below 60 degrees. So is 120 degrees and/or that temperature difference (60-120) enough to make a fiberglass sink crack. We are so disappointed and frustrated that this is happening again.
Then secondly we are trying to figure out if we can fix it with some resin in the tiny cracks and just never rinse is face cloth in the sink again. There are 2 very tiny cracks that can just be felt so it is so small that I am not sure if resin will get in it. But from our past experience I think the cracks will just grow. The cracks do not feel like straight cracks but in the shape of an X or Y. They are not leaking through yet and I suspect it will be a while before they do, since last time it was only one bigger crack that started leaking.
Never had this happen in either our '83 over 19 years, nor in our '04 since 2012. Like you, we boil water and keep in a thermos for daily washing chores, but when adding to the sink, I always have cold water in first. I add the boiling hot water until comfortable to my hand. Perhaps pouring it just onto a wet washcloth is the problem, keeping the heat from escaping. 120 degrees may be too hot. I also insulated the underside of our sink for camping in colder weather, to keep the bowl contents comfortable.
For washing dishes, we use a separate container on the counter for the hot, soapy water, rinsing in the sink.
Steve
In 26 years of owning two LDs, none of the sinks have developed cracking and a lot of very hot water has gone down them.
I will not pour boiling water into the drain but have no issues using the 120-degree water produced by the heater. It is something we never think about.
My guess is LD acquired a run of defective sinks and you have been unlucky enough to get two of them. It's not a common problem, I can't remember anyone with a fairy new LD having this issue before.
Have you contacted the Mothership?
Atwood makes an adjustable thermostat that can be set as low as around 105 degrees, it's fine for showers but too cold for proper rinsing of dishes.
Larry
"My guess is LD acquired a run of defective sinks and you have been unlucky enough to get two of them."
----
Bonnie mentioned that LD had changed manufacturers of the bathroom sinks; this could be a red flag due to complaints/issues with the sinks from the previous manufacturer, or the manufacturer switch could be a simple price point decision.
If the new sink that was provided by LD is from the previous manufacturer, it does seem likely that both sinks were from a defective run. Like others who have reported, the "washbowl" in my 2003 has had no issues in almost 18 years of use.
I'm sure this is disappointing and frustrating, and I hope it can be satisfactorily resolved.
We use water in the bathroom sink that has just recently come off a boil in the teakettle. BUT, I first run a cup or less of cold tap water into the (stoppered) bowl before slowly adding the hot to mix to the desired temp for washing with a cloth. Loni does it a bit differently. She puts her cloth in the basin, runs cold onto it to thoroughly soak, then dribbles hot onto it from the kettle. This has worked fine for 15 years. Perhaps 120 degrees is still too hot for a room temp bowl. Dunno. — Jon
Hi Bonnie; re-reading the entire thread, that brown mass you found growing was indeed growing. I've had similar masses grow in drains before. A simple fungus similar to a mushroom. Direct chlorine treatment would have stopped that. While the possibility of trapped air bubbles in the fiberglass, that would expand and burst (or at least crack into the surface) could cause this; I expect that it is a totality of the entire sink expanding from temperature change, and squeezing out at the slightest weak point. Anybody that has worked with Bondo knows about bubbles!
As far as cutting out the sink portion from the counter and putting in a stainless sink, it is very doable. Your advisors obviously haven't worked on boats before. My TK sink is smaller than your midbath sink. My TK sink is oval 12" x 8" x 6" deep. This stainless sink is similar to that, and came up on Amazon at a reasonable price. Amazon.com: Ambassador Marine Oval Stainless Steel Round Bottom Ultra Mirror... (https://www.amazon.com/Ambassador-Marine-Stainless-Bottom-Polished/dp/B00G6JEMYY/ref=pd_di_sccai_1/132-9920985-0535559?pd_rd_w=2JGsm&pf_rd_p=c9443270-b914-4430-a90b-72e3e7e784e0&pf_rd_r=H47KZMCRCK0A5J87Y3EC&pd_rd_r=4a13aebe-8dc1-4edb-8dea-d1dd546ec291&pd_rd_wg=wwfQE&pd_rd_i=B00GZH5EO4&psc=1)
While I would do this repair myself, you might want to outsource this.
Your MB may have a bigger counter top size. If it is big enough, this one, also Amazon, might fit. It is longer.
Houzer CS-1105-1 Club Series Undermount Stainless Steel Compact Bar/Prep... (https://www.amazon.com/Houzer-CS-1105-1-Undermount-Stainless-Compact/dp/B0011YHVN8/ref=pd_di_sccai_15/132-9920985-0535559?pd_rd_w=2JGsm&pf_rd_p=c9443270-b914-4430-a90b-72e3e7e784e0&pf_rd_r=H47KZMCRCK0A5J87Y3EC&pd_rd_r=4a13aebe-8dc1-4edb-8dea-d1dd546ec291&pd_rd_wg=wwfQE&pd_rd_i=B0011YHVN8&psc=1)
This is just Amazon. Marine parts stores may have a more sinks that would also fit. Hope this helps. RonB
Hi Bonnie; It would be helpful if I knew more about the actual size of your sink, inside dimensions. RonB
Ron,
I measure it as: 12" x 8.5" by 6 1/2" deep. Since it curves down slowly it is tricky to get an exact measurement. I am attaching pictures. Seems very close to the size of yours. Can you attach a picture of yours?
I emailed one of the sink manufactures that Lazy Dazy no longer uses, and he said what we are doing with the water would not cause an issue. I just cannot figure out why we have had this issue twice and NO ONE else seems to have had the issue.
Can anyone run their fingers along the inside of their sink and see if you can feel any slight cracks anywhere?
This is what the ex-sink manufacturer said:
Bonnie,
Heat and cold shock is not the problem in my opinion. Without pictures it is hard to determine a cause. Sometimes crack are generated when the parts are remove from the mold that do not show up until dirt get into them over time. Sometime crack can be created upon installation, again that don’t become visible right away. Your sink will not leak. RV are earthquakes running down the road and the moving may cause issues like this. Sorry you are having problem with my previous customers product.
I am asking him what he meant when he said "Your sink will not leak." Since our old sink did start leaking through one of the cracks.
Thank you all!!!
Most larger cities have shops that fabricate custom countertops, made out of different materials, including acrylic and man-made stone.
Might be better to find a shop with a good reputation and have one made.
Larry
Before we replaced the sink with the one sent from Lazy Daze, we called a place who redid RVs. (I cannot remember the name of the company- might have been West Coast Custom Coachworks) They said they would put in a Corian counter and it would cost $1500.
How unfortunate it happened again. And during the pandemic our options in product is less each day, with supply chain issues. A stainless sink might be an option. This is a photo on the internet.
Nadine
Hi Bonnie; Working with fiberglass resin requires care, and attention to detail. Room humidity, temperature of the mold, the resin, styrene monomer gel coat, air pressure for the 'chopper gun' are all critical. Cleanliness and freshness of chemicals is important, along with timing. If someone new to the process isn't fast enough, or mixes too much hardener (the catalyst), all kinds of things can negatively affect the end product. Internal stresses caused by overheating of the chemical reaction can cause a 'sink/countertop' to look good after it cures, but still wouldn't age well. That is what this is sounding like to me. I still can't believe that your two sinks are the only ones affected, but maybe the hot/cold stresses are just the right aggravating factors for a poorly made (vendor) product.
If you get the stainless sink insert (self rimming from the top) you just get a saber saw and cut out the old sink oval, the right size, in place. The whole counter top stays in place. A little filing and sanding and you glue (3M5200) the new sink in. In extreme care, I would make a router guide of plywood and double stick tape it down, and use that to finish the hole to the right size. The plumbing underneath would have to change. The complicating factor might be the faucet, but with the pictures you provided, it appears to not be in the way. A bit messy, and exacting. The end result would look good, be very durable, and it wouldn't happen again. RonB
Looking at your photo I wouldn't do anything until it gets worse, I really can't see the problem as it is now.
Bonnie, I am sorry for this problem that you are having. I want to add that this thread has a lot of valuable information as to the situation with both sinks in the LD’s. I was not comfortable with my ‘03 drain baskets because they showed aging and build up. I have replaced both in the kitchen sink, not without issues.
I would like to add my experiences in hoping to help others.
First I want to say that it is really difficult to find a replacement Kitchen sink that will fit without modifications. I read about other’s experiences on this site and scoured companies that make sinks. I couldn’t find one that would work for me. I would really have preferred one large sink as opposed to 2 small ones. The area is tight and particular and I was afraid this was going to become a situation of one purchase after another one. Getting the old drain baskets out was a nightmare. In my case the metal was so fatigued that it broke while using a tool for removal. The left side was a little easier than the right side. I ended up with my new drain baskets and a few marks on the sink on the right. I fixed the boo boo’s in the sink from the underside and used some touch up paint to cover the blemishes that were made. I am still not sure if I will change out the kitchen faucet. That idea is still on the drawing board.
As far as my original sink in the bathroom— I took the P trap out and cleaned it up. I took out the old faucet. Replacing the drain basket was out of the question. I think I would have cracked the bathroom sink for sure. It is in perfect condition, the drain basket is showing signs of wear but I cleaned it up, in place, and replaced the faucet with the exact same style. There are only 2 holes in the fiberglass sink for the faucet replacement and it was not worth trying to drill a 3rd hole or inventing a new wheel.
I am happy with my changes and my clean up and I understand my system better than ever....
My feeling about my Lazy Daze is that it has held up very well for 18 years and I have to concede to most of the original designs because most are working.
The problems that these good folks are experiencing with their 2019 offers me an eye opener into another reason why I am happily repairing or satisfied with my 18 yr young LD and trying not to remove items that are in working order and only replacing what is a demanding need.
I may change the Kitchen faucet out for a higher one which may or may not make washing dishes easier.
Mar