Following in the footsteps of the Lazy Daze masters, I installed the Camco Olympian Wave 3 catalytic heater in our 2019 MidBath. I was fortunate to have help from a friend with the expertise and tools to check my work generally, but especially for potential LPG leaks, ie; don’t try this project without the right expertise and tools!
I used MD Sturgis’ LPG hose and Quick Disconnect fitting with ball valve - 3/8" Ball Valve Quick Connect Natural Gas Connector Kit | MB Sturgis (https://mbsturgis.com/products/3-8-ball-valve-quick-connect-natural-gas-connector-kit/) I like the MD Sturgis hose for its flexibility and the ball valve because the design features a round, plastic knob that is unlikely to catch on pants or other objects (as opposed to a metal lever). The valve also has a feature that prevents the QD from releasing the hose with the valve in the on position - a good safety feature. I've listed the rest of the hardware at the end of the post.
Before starting this project, LPG gas supply is turned off at the tank and the remaining gas in the lines is removed by burning the stove burners until the flame goes out. The coach was also kept well ventilated at all times during the project.
The Dometic cooktop/oven was removed by first sliding the stove-top forward and lifting it off. Next, four screws fastening the oven to the sides of the counter top were removed, as well as two screws at the base of the oven fastening it to the cabinet. The LPG tube was disconnected from the gas inlet and the oven then removed by sliding it forward. The oven was set onto the lowered dinette table which was protected by a thick blanket.
The LPG tube supplying the oven was disconnected from factory blocking, as well as the counter-top. Next, the PLG line was cut with a pipe cutting tool directly across from the location where the QD valve would be mounted to the cabinet. Using tube cutter, de-burring tool, and flaring tool, a 3/8” "T" union was installed at this location but not tightened.
Next, a 5/8" hole (the outer diameter of the pipe nipple that transits the cabinet and blocking), was carefully cut in a piece of wood blocking (1”x2”x4”), and in the cabinet front where the QD Valve will be mounted. The supplemental blocking was mounted with glue and screws to existing blocking and framework as shown in photos, below. The QD Valve, 90 degree fitting, 2” nipple, NPT to flare adapter, (QD valve assembly), loosely installed through the cabinet and supplemental blocking. A grommet or washers were required to enable to the assembly to clamp tight against blocking and cabinet material (I don't have a 3D printer so I used rubber washers).
With both the T union and QD valve assembly loosely installed, a length of 3/8” copper tube of the right length to join the two was cut. One end of the copper tube was flared and tube length double checked (hint: buy extra tube in case you make a mistake). Two flare nuts are added to the tube before the second end is flared. Dimensions are checked and all connections are tightened. Before reinstalling the oven/cooktop, the LPG tube that will be connected to the stove is plugged and all connections tested with leak detector solution. It is recommended to hire an LPG professional to test the assembly with a manometer for safety’s sake! Once connections are found to be free of leaks, the stove can be reinstalled.
Thanks again to my friend, and to those that have done this before me and shared their experience/advice!
Warren
Other hardware used: 3/8", 3-way "T" fitting, 3/8" NPT nipple (2" length), 3/8" male flare to 3/8" female NPT connector, 90 degree 3/8" female NPT to 3/8 3/8" female NPT, four 3/8" flare nuts, 10' roll of 3/8" copper tube, LPG rated thread tape.
Special tools used: Flare tool, pipe de-burring tool, leak detection solution.
Nice job, Warren, and thanks for posting your install! A few questions:
1. How heavy is the oven? I liked your idea of lowering the dinette to place it on after removal.
2. Is that the top of the FW tank under the oven (the white part)?
3. It’s not clear to me how the hose is run from the new tee to the QD. Can you explain?
I’ve been looking at doing this modification towards the rear of the coach, tapping into the propane line near the water heater but it’s pretty tight in that location. This looks like it may be easier.
Greg,
1. The oven probably weighs 25 - 30 Lbs. You could probably slide it out yourself. I had a friend which made it easy.
2. Yes, the White object is the water tank. As Art (Older Fossil), suggested, with the stove out one can easily access the tank sensors, as well as the side of the battery box (for battery monitor wire routing, for example).
3. The part sequence from the “T” to the Wave 3 is as follows (all are 3/8” size): (T: Flare - Flare - Flare), (Coupling: Male Flare - Female NPT), (2” long nipple, NPT - NPT), (90degree Elbow: Female NPT - Male NPT), (Quick Disconnect fitting with Ball Valve: Female NPT - QD), (LPG Hose: QD - Female Flare), (Camco LPG Swivel: Male Flare - Female Flare), (Wave 3 Heater - Male Flare).
As for the rear of the coach comment…. I chose to install the heater with a 10’ LPG hose so that we can place the heater just rearward of the bathroom when we are in the lounge. If we decide we want two heaters or shorter hose, I will install a second QD fitting near the furnace/water heater.
Having a “Pro” there to help/supervise was a key factor for me, both to ensure a neat installation, as well as for safety. I encourage you to do the same, Greg.
Warren,
Thanks for a great write-up. Your installation looks very clean. This job is on my list.
How did you get behind the panel/cabinet front where the quick disconnect ball valve is mounted?
Harold
Harold
Sliding the stove unit out provides plenty of access to the under counter area for this job, as well as service to water tank, wire run projects and others.
Warren
Thanks Warren,
I've been wondering how to access this space.
Harold
Thanks Warren,
I've been wondering how to access this space.
Do this yourself only if you already know how to make a gas-tight flare in 3/8” copper tubing. If not, have a professional do it.
We don’t want anyone burning their rig, getting hurt or worse. Propane is potentially dangerous tuff.
Testng for leaks with a high grade leak detector is mandatory. Testing with a manometer is also an accepted way to determine if leaks are present, best done after using a leak fluid, if finding no leaks. It’s good to verify the leak-free condition using a manometer, do this before the stove is put back in, just in case., This is also a good time to make sure the propane regulator’s is set correctly.
Amazon.com: PerfectPrime AR1890 Professional Digital Air Pressure Meter &... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3PPZZY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
To pressure test with a manometer, before replacing the stove, use a 3/8” male flare-plugto temprarily cap off the stove’s gas supply.
LASCO 17-3931 3/8-Inch Brass Flare Plug - Pipe Fittings - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/LASCO-17-3931-8-Inch-Brass-Flare/dp/B008E5C77W)
I like the quick disconnect valve Warren used.
Larry
Excellent information, Warren, and a very neat job. Thanks for posting all the details1
I would only make one suggestion: If it were me, I'd add a support block near the "elbow" in that propane line. Lazy Daze left far too much pipe hanging loosely, where it can flex and flap while on the road.
“ I'd add a support block near the "elbow" in that propane line.”
Thanks Andy, we actually ran the 2” long nipple through a support block, then through the cabinet wall to the elbow. The support block was attached to the existing cabinet blocking and aluminum frame with both Gorilla Glue and screws. The screws were set downward, through predrilled holes in the frame and then through the factory blocking and finally into the supplemental block. The yellow Torx screw heads can be seen in one of the top-view photos.
Warren
Greg,
1. The oven probably weighs 25 - 30 Lbs. You could probably slide it out yourself. I had a friend which made it easy.
2. Yes, the White object is the water tank. As Art (Older Fossil), suggested, with the stove out one can easily access the tank sensors, as well as the side of the battery box (for battery monitor wire routing, for example).
3. The part sequence from the “T” to the Wave 3 is as follows (all are 3/8” size): (T: Flare - Flare - Flare), (Coupling: Male Flare - Female NPT), (2” long nipple, NPT - NPT), (90degree Elbow: Female NPT - Male NPT), (Quick Disconnect fitting with Ball Valve: Female NPT - QD), (LPG Hose: QD - Female Flare), (Camco LPG Swivel: Male Flare - Female Flare), (Wave 3 Heater - Male Flare).
As for the rear of the coach comment…. I chose to install the heater with a 10’ LPG hose so that we can place the heater just rearward of the bathroom when we are in the lounge. If we decide we want two heaters or shorter hose, I will install a second QD fitting near the furnace/water heater.
Having a “Pro” there to help/supervise was a key factor for me, both to ensure a neat installation, as well as for safety. I encourage you to do the same, Greg.
Thanks, Warren. I guess my question (#3) is what route does the hose take from the tee to the QD. Does is just lay on top of the FW tank, then drop down to the QD?
I worked as a pipefitter in the past so feel confident in tackling this job myself. Hopefully not famous last words! 😁
Andy,
I’m a bit slow… I now realize that you were referring to the 90 degree bend in the copper tube between the T and the oven. Good point - Thanks!
Warren
Warren,
Like Greg, I am also curious about the tubing run from the T to the QD.
Harold
Greg, Harold,
The tube from T to QD Assembly is several inches above the water tank. It is an unsupported, ~20” run. I suppose one could insert a foam block between the tank and tube for support. However, given the blocking on both ends of the run I felt it to be adequate without such support.
Perhaps Larry or Andy can weigh in on this.
Warren
Our Wave3 installation was very similar to Warren's. I used copper tubing from where I teed off the stove propane line near where it came through the wall from the fridge area. Our QD was also below the stove just to the left of the drawer under the fridge, with a shut-off valve on the back of the QD. The shut-off valve was accessible with the drawer pulled out. The only flexible hose was between the QD and the Wave3.
Art
Greg, Harold,
The tube from T to QD Assembly is several inches above the water tank. It is an unsupported, ~20” run. I suppose one could insert a foam block between the tank and tube for support. However, given the blocking on both ends of the run I felt it to be adequate without such support.
Perhaps Larry or Andy can weigh in on this.
The propane supply line is secured to the block on the wall and also to the counter top, this is how LD normally secures the propane line running to the stove.
In Warren’s installation, the quick-disconnect is rigidly mounted and so is the connection at the stove. Once everything is reassembled and the stove is back in and connected, the new propane line is adequately supported.
Once the copper tubing is installed and all the connections tightened, it becomes very rigid and not subject to moving or bouncing. The new supply to the quick-disconnect is rigid and shows no signs of needing support.
The water tank can be used for a support but its top can move upward if the water tank is overfilled, causing it to bulge and flexing the tubing. The horizonal run is not long, copper tubing is structually capable of making a short spans, it’s done throughout the rig.
Enjoy the heat Warren.
Larry
Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I'm not comfortable with a 20" unsupported run with a 90° bend in the middle. If I can easily deflect it with a fingertip, I want better support.
Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I'm not comfortable with a 20" unsupported run with a 90° bend in the middle. If I can easily deflect it with a fingertip, I want better support.
The photos are incomplete and do not show the added tubing from the tee to the cabinet wall and quick-disconnect
When all the connections and supports are tight and secure, the added tubing is very ridgid and adds strength to the original tubing run.
The stock tubing's two tie-downs (one on the wall and the other at deck level) are what LD originally installed and considered adequate. If anything, the added tubing is now more secure and ridgid.
Larry
"The photos are incomplete and do not show the added tubing from the tee to the cabinet wall and quick-disconnect"
Understood; that adds some strength to the run.
"The stock tubing's two tie-downs (one on the wall and the other at deck level) are what LD originally installed and considered adequate."
Nevertheless, I disagree with them.
I’m inclined to leave as-is. The tubing is now supported well from three points: existing blocking, existing counter fastener, and the new QD valve assembly fastened to the lower, front cabinet.
That said, I suppose one can not be too safe with propane line… Were I to add supplemental blocking adjacent the “elbow”, I suppose I would look for a stud with a finder. Anyone know whether Lazy Daze uses as a standard, 12”, 18” or some other dimension between stud centers?
One other question: does anyone know why the factory encases the gas line in black plastic electrical conduit from just above the elbow to just beyond the counter fastener? I thought perhaps it would guard against stove top chafing. However, the stove top terminates two or three inches in front of the counter so there is little chance of chafing.
Thanks all for the support,
W
Three years later, I'm finally gearing up to tackle this project. Just purchased a Wave 3 heater and now need to get all the fittings and accessories. Just wanted to confirm that since the propane supply is tapped off the internal RV system, there is no need for a supplemental pressure regulator, correct?
. Just wanted to confirm that since the propane supply is tapped off the internal RV system, there is no need for a supplemental pressure regulator, correct?
That is correct, the propane lines inside have regulated pressure.
Checking the set pressure of the regulator with a manometer periodically is recommended.
"...there is no need for a supplemental pressure regulator, correct?"
There are appliances that require high pressure and there are those that need low pressure (about 15lbs.). So it depends on what you are fueling!
As to what the Wave 3 requires, I haven't a clue! ::)
Larry is correct, as usual. The RV's propane system supplies gas at a regulated pressure equal to 11 inches of water, which is 0.4 PSI. Many RV stoves have their own regulators, as an added safety feature.
There are no built-in RV appliances, including stoves, furnaces, refrigerators, and heaters like the Wave 3, that require 15 psi. 15 PSI is 415 inches of water! Such a high pressure would damage RV appliances and could be extremely dangerous.
(Here is a useful PSI to inches H2O converter (https://www.convertunits.com/from/psi/to/inch%20water).)
"The RV's propane system supplies gas at a regulated pressure equal to 11 inches of water,..."
And, as usual Andy is correct! The LP pressure at the output of the RV regulator going to the on-board appliances is 11 inches!
However, in my case my 15lb regulator is ahead of the LD regulator and delivers a lower pressure to my Napoleon BBQ grill on the passenger side where I (formerly) did my cooking. That system has been in place for several years without a hiccup! ;)
That's why I specified "built-in RV appliances." :-) Items such as your barbecue, "Buddy" type heaters (if fitted with regulators), flame pits, and so on are built to deal with higher gas pressures than built-in appliances.
Of all the potentially dangerous things in an RV, propane is the most dangerous.
Propane is explosive at a relatively low level of 2.1% of the local atmosphere.
Gases - Explosion and Flammability Concentration Limits (https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/explosive-concentration-limits-d_423.html)
As Andy pointed out, the propane tank’s pressure is many times more than what the LD’s appliances require. A full propane tank, at 70 degrees Fahrenheit sits at about 145 pounds per square inch, 300 times more than what is used by the appliances.
How much pressure is in a propane tank? | Ferrellgas | Fuel Life Simply (https://www.ferrellgas.com/tank-talk/blog-articles/how-much-pressure-is-in-a-propane-tank/)
Maintaining the propane system is important with so little propane needed to become explosive.
The propane regulator will eventually fail with enough time. The fiber diaphragm inside the regulator can develop holes or the valve assembly can jam. allowing the propane’s output pressure to exceed the regulator's setting of 11’-H2O. A failed regulator’s excessive output can turn a stove’s pilot light into a blow torch or a burner into a conflagration.
On the other hand, a regulator can jam and reduce the output pressure, resulting in a poorly performing appliance. Checking the output periodically with a manometer can spot problems before they become big issues.
Propane pressure testing | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157667936301036/with/26481917891/)
Check the propane system’s plumbing periodically is also a good idea, you may smell it in the daytime but not if you are sleeping. soapy water or a specialized leak detector fluid can be used.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-8-oz-All-Purpose-Leak-Detector-302092/100151681
Propane regulators come preset and many are factory-sealed and cannot be adjusted, requiring replacement if the setting is out of range. For safety's sake, it’s best to have a professional adjust the regulator.
The reading of 11’-H2O is the desired pressure with two propane-burning appliances running at the same time.
Larry
Great information... for most of you who do it yourself.
But for me, who also did this about 13 years ago, it was best (and much easier) to hire it done by someone who knew what they were doing! I'm glad to have it, and also happy when I don't need it!
Still traveling, and living, in LD comfort!
Kristin
Just received the Wave 3. My first inclination was to purchase the larger Wave 6 or 8, based on the manufacturer’s square footage specs. but folks here on the forum suggested going smaller as the larger units tend to put out too much heat.
Hope to tackle the install after our upcoming Montana De Oro campout this month.
Hi Greg; I could have mentioned this earlier, but maybe this would be useful to others. My T/K is a much tighter space and smaller volume to heat. With the Lithium conversion there was no reason to even consider a Wave propane heater. A larger propane tank would be more useful, but with the solar assist I can run the provided space heater as long as I want. Noise is minimal.
Your MB may benefit more, and you have the space for the additional (backup) heater that I don't. RonB
Getting my parts together for the install. After teeing into the stove supply copper tubing, wondering if using something like this, instead of hard tubing, would be easier? It would allow two less flares to be made as you could run it directly to a shut-off valve or quick connect fitting, and is more flexible. Thoughts?
Amazon.com: NQN Upgraded 12Feet High Pressure Braided Propane Hose Extension... (https://www.amazon.com/NQN-Upgraded-Pressure-Extension-Conversion/dp/B0BK566SYM/ref=sr_1_2?crid=U9PJ3DI8YV4I&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.CgseJE3QOdkSsJ5pvHoYW9Yxj_0UWdmSvRU6Yrd-P-lb0yw0cQbuH5zGgDawIg2VTmQ41trd7jV3qOhvvMtBfkmIX6A7B2r3gRTiiI0WrNwF0Ljd6Ol5XQbJ7j3RvMPFBdSzIdOgxnweYMUrXz6Sg11H_J8wo-3wnLV97MzkjjP2G4DRQNXlc3RFvEIKclj7n_j1xpX9SVfCYV04sxkNCgjqfM3Aw9JZ7aQ32vjSW4I.1Ax7x1o-r001fmlaKoPg8Srxd8Jf_E3E0p-UEHvJlYw&dib_tag=se&keywords=Upgraded+12Feet+High+Pressure+Braided+Propane+Hose+Extension+with+Conversion+Coupling&qid=1728273969&sprefix=upgraded+12feet+high+pressure+braided+propane+hose+extension+with+conversion+coupling+%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-2)
"...wondering if using something like this, instead of hard tubing, would be easier?"
Wow, wish I had seen this before I installed my gas BBQ! :o I would have used the stainless flex in lieu of what I had. ::)
Bear in mine that this is not a stainless steel gas hose. It's a rubber hose with a braided (and definitely not leak-proof) stainless steel anti-chafe sleeve. If the rubber tubing inside cracks, there's no way to detect that by visual inspection, and the sleeve will do nothing to stop a leak.
Bear in mine that this is not a stainless steel gas hose. It's a rubber hose with a braided (and definitely not leak-proof) stainless steel anti-chafe sleeve. If the rubber tubing inside cracks, there's no way to detect that by visual inspection, and the sleeve will do nothing to stop a leak.
Good point to consider, thanks Andy!
Mind you, I say that having recently bought a pair of stainless-braid-covered 12" pigtail hoses for my Airstream's propane locker. A friend pointed out the disadvantages, and now I wish I'd gone for plain rubber instead of being seduced by that shiny silver jacket.
We started with a Wave 6 but found out that was way to much heat in our 98~MB and now have a Wave 3. We move the heater from in the kitchen to the back lounge depending where we are. We still connect to a 20lb Propane cylinder to run the Wave 3. We use an Emergency Propane Shut-Off valve on the tank in case something catastrophic happens to the propane line. We set the 20lb tank in the front driving area and run the hose on the floor to the heater. If we move the bathroom door to close off the front from the rear lounge the hose runs conveniently under the door. We like using the 20lb tanks because we can have them filled easily. We find in the winter time that it is more difficult to have our LD tank filled in many places. We always have a tank which we carry in our bathroom shower wedged between the wall and short wall. When we bring a second tank in the winter, we leave it on the floor in the bathroom while traveling. We have have been looking for a better solution for places to carry our tanks in our 98~LD. Has anyone come up with a solution? I have worked with Gas and Propane a lot over the years in homes, mobile homes and some in RVs. As mentioned here on LDO Propane can be dangerous especially when it leaks out. Does anyone else run their Wave heaters from Propane Portable Tanks? What Safety procedures do you follow?
Karen~Liam
98 ~ MB
NinA
Emergency Propane Shut-Off -
https://www.lazydazeowners.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=4613
Bear in mine that this is not a stainless steel gas hose. It's a rubber hose with a braided (and definitely not leak-proof) stainless steel anti-chafe sleeve. If the rubber tubing inside cracks, there's no way to detect that by visual inspection, and the sleeve will do nothing to stop a leak.
Braided stainless steel covered hoses are most appropriate in environments where the hose is subject to rubbing or impacts, often seen on construction tractors. Hot rodders dress up their engine compartments with stainless steel covered hoses because they look good, but not for any practical reason.
If installing the propane connection yourself, buy a length of copper tubing and practice making several flares until you get the hang of it. Your life may depend on it.
Below is the propane disconnect and valve I used for several years when installing propane connections. In MB. I located them at floor level, under the stove.
Amazon.com: Camco Propane Quick Connect Kit - Valve & Full Flow Plug,... (https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Propane-Quick-Connect-Kit/dp/B007HG7TFO/ref=asc_df_B007HG7TFO?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79989526348823&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583589111037012&psc=1)
A Wave 8 is too big for your MB, and many MB owners feel a Wave 6 is too big, preferring a Wave 3 connected to a 5 foot hose, allowing moving it around the rig as needed.
The larger Waves require sitting a good distance away from them, catalytic heaters heat the objects in front of them, not the air.
Larry
Karen and Liam,
I also carry a 20-lb propane tank and can hook it to the Wave 3 or BBQ or firepit outside. I keep it in the trunk of my tow car, along with the firepit and so on. I never trusted keeping or using one inside a building or the RV (famously not safe in Alaska!). But with my OLD vintage Airstream in Alaska, I do carry a 20-lb propane tank inside the trailer until I'm camping.
Kristin
I know we have a couple of experienced HVAC folks on the forum so my question is about copper tubing for the segment that will be teed in from the existing stove line to the quick connect fitting that the heater hose plugs into.
I found 10’ of tubing on clearance sale (under $6 so I couldn’t resist) at Lowe’s so I purchased it but am unsure of it’s application for LPG use. The type is UT (utility?) and I’m unable to find any info on it. I did a couple of test flares on it and it seems fine. Has anyone used this type before?
The 3/8’ copper tubing shown should be fine for your project. The package indicates it can be used for making flares.
Larry
Thanks, Larry. One last question. Can any old quick connect fitting be used for LPG or is a special type required?
Greg copper tube comes in wall thickness, something designed for AC&R would be best but what you have is good. Your flares look good just make sure they spin free on the flare nut. Lube the tubing just a bit when you tighten everything up it'll make up better. I'm sure your going to need propane specific quick connects.
Jon
I'm sure you're going to need propane specific quick connects.
The Camco Quick Disconnect kit is made for propane use.
Larry
Thanks, Larry, I'll get the Camco QD.
Hi Jon, and thanks for your input. What lubricant should be used to make up the joint connection?
Finally completed this project today! Went pretty smoothly except one of my flares had a slight leak. Redid it and all is well. The Wave 3 heater works great!
Wasn’t really happy with the way the fittings/hose stuck out (Warren had it right for his install), so removed the stove again and installed an elbow so that the QD points down, instead of outward. Last thing to do is install a support hanger so the QD doesn’t move, although it’s fairly stable as is.