My generator starts and runs fine however it's not switching to AC power nor are the batteries being charged.
I checked the circuit breakers and they aren't flipped.
Shore power works and charges batteries.
What should I check next?
The circuit breaker on the generator.
The transfer switch on the back of the converter unit.
Steve
Electrical path is Generator-->Automatic Transfer Switch-->Coach Power Center
Check the breaker on the generator, and then do your best to determine where the 120v power is and isn't.
If the generator breaker is on, I would be reaching for a non-contact voltage tester and checking the wires along the path for voltage.
https://youtu.be/wmeuTpZ1e0I?t=207
ATS: The Lazy Daze Companion: Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) (https://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2011/03/automatic-transfer-switch-ats.html)
Rich
The circuit breaker on the generator.
That was it.
It immediately switches to off when it tries to power on.
It is a 1995.
Could it be the breaker age rather than a short in the system considering shore power works fine?
😥
That was it.
It immediately switches to off when it tries to power on.
It is a 1995.
Could it be the breaker age rather than a short in the system considering shore power works fine?
😥
Mine did it as well a few weeks back. Didn’t know about the circuit breaker on the generator until I read through the manual. Just ran the generator again yesterday and it switched over fine so it may just be something you need to check on occasion.
Mine did it as well a few weeks back. Didn’t know about the circuit breaker on the generator until I read through the manual. Just ran the generator again yesterday and it switched over fine so it may just be something you need to check on occasion.
The generator AC circuit breaker switch won't stay on.
Gotta be an easy (cheap) fix. Either the circuit breaker is faulty or the line is shorted to ground, possibly within the transfer switch.
Gotta be an easy (cheap) fix. Either the circuit breaker is faulty or the line is shorted to ground, possibly within the transfer switch.
Thanks.
I have a Progressive Dynamics converter in it now. I assume it must have a transfer switch?
I think I'll start by replacing the circuit breaker.
Tede, you will probably find the transfer switch on the back of the power panel.
One BIG caution - do NOT EVER try to hold the breaker closed. That is a really good way to start a fire. Second big caution, do not try working on the ATS with power in the system.
Ken F in NM
Tede, you will probably find the transfer switch on the back of the power panel.
One BIG caution - do NOT EVER try to hold the breaker closed. That is a really good way to start a fire. Second big caution, do not try working on the ATS with power in the system.
Ken F in NM
Thanks for those safety tips Ken.
I got the switch out.
I had the battery disconnected and the shore power unhooked.
Onan part #320-1323
Thanks for those safety tips Ken.
I got the switch out.
I had the battery disconnected and the shore power unhooked.
Onan part #320-1323
Great, let us know if it solves the problem!
Great, let us know if it solves the problem!
I will.
While your at it, with all the power off and the breaker disconnected check the leads with an ohm meter and make sure nothing reads to ground.
Jon
While your at it, with all the power off and the breaker disconnected check the leads with an ohm meter and make sure nothing reads to ground.
Jon
A hooked the batteries up.
Should I disconnect them first?
(https://i.postimg.cc/FFVcztvK/20210205-162847.jpg)
Hi Ted; There is a load relay in the converter that switches the 12 VDC part of the house to converter supply, instead of battery 12v. This only switches when the converter is connected to 120 VAC, and is producing 12Vdc. (really about 13.2VDC.) This relay doesn't switch 120VAC, and isn't the bus transfer relay. The Bus transfer relay, normally connected to shore power, has the time delay and switches to generator power, when the generator is producing 120VAC. You can leave the batteries connected to the coach. They aren't involved in 120VAC circuitry. The PD converter's only involvement with AC is to take it from the bus transfer relay if it is available. If the generator isn't running, and shore power isn't connected, there isn't any 120VAC.
If you have a whole house inverter, many times they can back charge the batteries when 120 Vac is available. It gets a lot more complicated. Unless you have a whole house inverter installed, it isn't likely to be a hazard.
One way to test that Onan breaker is to hook it in series with the 'hot' black wire of a line cord, and see if it will stay on with a load like a table lamp. If it doesn't, it is faulty. If it does stay on, then likely there is a short between 'hot' and neutral or ground, running to the bus transfer relay. The bus transfer relay could also have a problem. Do you have a 'surge protector' wired in somewhere? RonB
....
One way to test that Onan breaker is to hook it in series with the 'hot' black wire of a line cord, and see if it will stay on with a load like a table lamp. If it doesn't, it is faulty. If it does stay on, then likely there is a short between 'hot' and neutral or ground, running to the bus transfer relay. The bus transfer relay could also have a problem. Do you have a 'surge protector' wired in somewhere? RonB
No inverter and no wired in surge protector.
There are two black wires going to the breaker switch I removed. Not sure what you mean "hook it in series".
Thanks for the help RonB.
Hi Ted, well after 25 years, that breaker might be faulty, so you could just replace it first. In my experience, a bad breaker wouldn't turn on or stay on at all, even with no power applied. That it trips immediately, tells me there is a wiring problem somewhere on the way to the automatic bus transfer relay. Thanks for that picture. That breaker is rated for 30 Amps continuous duty. It is set to trip at 37.5 Amps.
Digital Multi-Meters (DMM) are useful tools, and could pinpoint the problem more quickly. I would check around the vicinty of the transfer relay for loose or disconnected wires. Especially if you recently had the distribution panel out when you replaced the Parallax converter with the PD converter. RonB
Digital Multi-Meters (DMM) are useful tools, and could pinpoint the problem more quickly. I would check around the vicinty of the transfer relay for loose or disconnected wires. Especially if you recently had the distribution panel out when you replaced the Parallax converter with the PD converter. RonB
I changed the converter out about 8 years ago.
I do have a DMM. Any tips on where to attach it and what settings and readings I should get would be helpful. Electricity isn't my "specialty" 😂
Again, many thanks.
Hi Ted. One of the black wires removed from the breaker, comes from the generator. With the generator running, see if the meter detects 110VAC on that wire. With the genset off, (no shore power) see if the resistance of the other black wire to ground is near zero ohms. In this location, ground is essentially the same as neutral. You might read 100 ohms or so for the winding on the relay. A 'dead' short of the order of under 10 ohms would indicate a wiring issue, or a problem with the switching relay. Rats have been very active with all the rain last year in the San Diego area. Look around for wiring damage near the generator. Hope that it is just a worn out breaker. RonB
Hi Ted. One of the black wires removed from the breaker, comes from the generator. With the generator running, see if the meter detects 110VAC on that wire. With the genset off, (no shore power) see if the resistance of the other black wire to ground is near zero ohms. In this location, ground is essentially the same as neutral. You might read 100 ohms or so for the winding on the relay. A 'dead' short of the order of under 10 ohms would indicate a wiring issue, or a problem with the switching relay. Rats have been very active with all the rain last year in the San Diego area. Look around for wiring damage near the generator. Hope that it is just a worn out breaker. RonB
I tested the leads.
One produced about 170 volts AC (fluctuating).
The other read .266 on the ohms.
I assume your reading is to ground, that isn't much resistance. We were looking for a dead short. If it was mine, I'd put the breaker in and try it. The 170 Volts on the line side is kind of concerning though. I'm not really up on generators, it might need a load to bring the voltage into line. I have dealt with that kind of breaker in the past and they do go bad.
Jon
I assume your reading is to ground, that isn't much resistance. We were looking for a dead short. If it was mine, I'd put the breaker in and try it. The 170 Volts on the line side is kind of concerning though. I'm not really up on generators, it might need a load to bring the voltage into line. I have dealt with that kind of breaker in the past and they do go bad.
Jon
Thanks Jon. I have one on order.
"The other read .266 on the ohms."
Thanks for posting that screenshot. .266 ohms would be a dead short, or near enough as makes no difference. But reading the "fine print" on your meter's display, it says .266 kilohms, or 266 ohms.
"The other read .266 on the ohms."
Thanks for posting that screenshot. .266 ohms would be a dead short, or near enough as makes no difference. But reading the "fine print" on your meter's display, it says .266 kilohms, or 266 ohms.
Thank you Andy.
So no short?
Hi Ted; No short. That it indicates some ohms, means it isn't open either. So the breaker looks to be bad. The 170 ACvolts out of the generator is probably ok. Open circuit is usually high. When presented with a load, the voltage regulator will work better, and it should settle down near 125 VAC. It is good that it is generating some power. RonB
Well. No go.
I replaced the breaker and it still trips.
😥
I will add:
With every breaker off on the converter the genset breaker trips off after about an 8 second delay.
Hi Ted; Next step is to disconnect the generator output from the bus transfer relay. If the breaker still trips, it is probably something wrong in the wire feed from the generator, or the generator itself. RonB
I think Steve was on the right track when he suggested the automatic transfer switch has a problem.
Larry
This Onan Microquiet 4000 service manual (PDF) might be of use:
http://www.rvwithtito.com/download/Onan4000MaintenanceManual.pdf
I think Steve was on the right track when he suggested the automatic transfer switch has a problem.
Larry
Is this switch part of the converter?
Is this switch part of the converter?
From the Companion (with a picture of one):
The Lazy Daze Companion: Automatic Transfer Switch (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/search/label/Automatic%20Transfer%20Switch)
The Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) the ATS is a relay used to switch power automatically to either shore power or generator power. It's most important function is to prevent generator power from being back through the shore power line, a potentially deadly situation for a linesman working on a line that he thinks is dead. The ATS is a small metal box mounted on the back of your converter/charger.
Rich
Would a bad ATS cause the generator breaker to trip?
It could, but you're quickly getting to the point where it takes a person with a multimeter and some knowledge to figure things out. Poking around without understanding can lead to hurting yourself.
There is a diagram showing how the ATS is wired on the Lazy Daze Companion site.
This video shows a different brand of RV ATS, but the troubleshooting ideas are the same:
https://youtu.be/7xxWagd-Q8Q?t=575
Rich
Hi Ted; Next step is to disconnect the generator output from the bus transfer relay. If the breaker still trips, it is probably something wrong in the wire feed from the generator, or the generator itself. RonB
Are saying to pull the generator leads from the ATS and start the generator to see?
Also, I've been told that 170VAC is way too high. Should I check the regulator and how is that done?
Thanks
Hi Ted. Yes to see if the circuit breaker will stay on, with the generator only supplying power to a disconnected wire at the ATS relay. That checks the integrity of the wiring in the conduit (gray flex tubing) frpm the generator up through the floor. I'm hoping that with a load, the 170VAC will drop down to normal. Digital meters can sometimes give 'odd' readings with a generator capable of four kilowatts, that doesn't have any loads.
Quite likely there may be something seriously wrong with the generator half of your generator. How many hours do you have on it? Have you regularly run it for maintenance purposes? The voltage regulator part could be a small fix, but I've never worked on that part of an RV genset. RonB
...
Quite likely there may be something seriously wrong with the generator half of your generator. How many hours do you have on it? Have you regularly run it for maintenance purposes? The voltage regulator part could be a small fix, but I've never worked on that part of an RV genset. RonB
Admittedly I don't run it as often as I should. We take long trips since 2014 and I've ran out a lot then.
It has 330 hours and that isn't much for a 1995.
Sidenote: in order to replace the little automatic choke coil mechanism I'd need buy the entire carburetor. Onan told me that. Ugh.
Hi Ted, if the generator engine starts and runs normally, especially if at 60 hertz, then the choke mechanism is working fine. The voltage output is controlled by a voltage regulator, which doesnt control the engine speed. RonB
Hi Ted, if the generator engine starts and runs normally, especially if at 60 hertz, then the choke mechanism is working fine. The voltage output is controlled by a voltage regulator, which doesnt control the engine speed. RonB
Good news I think.
I unhooked the ATS and the generator breaker stayed on.
My next question is...If the generator output is indeed 170VAC as it tests, could that voltage harm the ATS?
The running RPM of the generator does not appear to run any higher than normal.
Here's a pic of the wires to the ATS.
I'm not sure how I'll ever keep the wiring straight and also I see no way of physically removing the ATS.
Maybe time to call my mobile RV repair guy.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2jv3dnZV/20210219-125342.jpg)
First, get roll of white electrical tape and a sharpie - label each of the wires before disconnecting them and record where they went. There should be a couple of screws on the outside of the ATS housing bolting it to the converter.
Just to add to your day that ATS switch is no longer made.
It is a Parallax Power Supply Auto Gen Transfer Switch ATS 301 30amp 120VAC.
You may be able to find one. I did. The circuit breakers may have to be removed to get to the attaching screws.
I would transfer the new switch to the old box, I think.
Here is one. It says 37 in stock!
Parallax ATS301 30 Amp 120 Volt Automatic Line/generator Transfer Switch -... (https://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/parallax-ats301-30-amp-120-volt-automatic-line-generator-transfer-switch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4L2BBhCvARIsAO0SBdZRJKluiIylIvF2Z9rG_4WNbIFFmrO2xw3hvwtknCLEuXEqlKCI1_YaAspJEALw_wcB)
It is possible that the switch you get won’t match your’s but the picture does.
Amazon’s picture does not. Might be a bit of a crapshoot. Worst case transfer the new parts to the old box.
Here is another.
RV Generator Switch | 55-7275 | PPL Motor Homes since 1972 (https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/electrical-plumbing-lp-gas/rv-electrical-systems-and-accessories/transfer-switches/rv-generator-switch_55-7275)
Just to add to your day that ATS switch is no longer made.
It is a Parallax Power Supply Auto Gen Transfer Switch ATS 301 30amp 120VAC.
You may be able to find one. I did. The circuit breakers may have to be removed to get to the attaching screws.
I would transfer the new switch to the old box, I think.
Here is one. It says 37 in stock!
Parallax ATS301 30 Amp 120 Volt Automatic Line/generator Transfer Switch -... (https://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/parallax-ats301-30-amp-120-volt-automatic-line-generator-transfer-switch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4L2BBhCvARIsAO0SBdZRJKluiIylIvF2Z9rG_4WNbIFFmrO2xw3hvwtknCLEuXEqlKCI1_YaAspJEALw_wcB)
It is possible that the switch you get won’t match your’s but the picture does.
Amazon’s picture does not. Might be a bit of a crapshoot. Worst case transfer the new parts to the old box.
I think I need to solve the issue of why the generator outputting 170 VAC first. I tested it at the circuit breaker on the generator itself.
I want to figure out how to test the voltage regulator now (part 305-0809-01).
This sounds probable to me.
My generator will start with a higher than normal voltage (not 170, but there is some load on it) and doesn't really 'settle in' until I get at least 2-3Amps of load going.
I'm hoping that with a load, the 170VAC will drop down to normal. Digital meters can sometimes give 'odd' readings with a generator capable of four kilowatts, that doesn't have any loads.
Rich
I think I need to solve the issue of why the generator outputting 170 VAC first. I tested it at the circuit breaker on the generator itself.
I want to figure out how to test the voltage regulator now (part 305-0809-01).
You are correct. First you need a frequency meter to set the governor at 60hz. If the voltage is still out then replace the voltage regulator. Along the way test the resistance through the brushes and slip rings. If it is high it will blow out a new voltage regulator.
You are correct. First you need a frequency meter to set the governor at 60hz. If the voltage is still out then replace the voltage regulator. Along the way test the resistance through the brushes and slip rings. If it is high it will blow out a new voltage regulator.
I assume of the brushes and slip rings are bad then the generator is a loss?
How are those tested?
I assume of the brushes and slip rings are bad then the generator is a loss?
How are those tested?
With an ohm meter. The Flight Safety trouble shooting document will tell you how to test them. If high resistance then clean the surface up, think burnish is the word. It is involved to get to them (flywheel puller). Take it to a small engine repair place, generator repair place, or even an Onan service center and get it fixed. The generator is not a total loss. Don’t run it producing 170 volts.
With an ohm meter. The Flight Safety trouble shooting document will tell you how to test them. If high resistance then clean the surface up, think burnish is the word. It is involved to get to them (flywheel puller). Take it to a small engine repair place, generator repair place, or even an Onan service center and get it fixed. The generator is not a total loss. Don’t run it producing 170 volts.
Onan service center wants $550 to just diagnose the problem.
Yikes.
You can learn a lot yourself for $550. Start with a voltmeter that measures frequency. Adjust the governor per the service manual and go from there. If you still have a problem look for a small engine repair place or generator repair place that does not have RV or Onan in the name. Failing that get a flywheel puller and take a look at the slip rings if they measure high resistance. If they don’t then replace the voltage regulator and you will be good to go.
Something else to consider: it's possible you may have a "peak reading voltmeter". 120 volts that we normally associate with our "normal" ac readings is an RMS value, RMS meaning root meas square. It just so happens that RMS times the square root of 2 equal peak value. In this case 120 x 1.414 = 169.95 (or something like that). My suggestion would be to read the voltage with another meter, just to confirm the RMS value is actually 170 volts. You may actually have nothing to fix.
Ken
On 2/19/2021 5:49 PM, tedeboy via LDO wrote:
On: Fri Feb 19, 2021 hbn7hj Wrote:
Just to add to your day that ATS switch is no longer made.
It is a Parallax Power Supply Auto Gen Transfer Switch ATS 301 30amp 120VAC.
You may be able to find one. I did. The circuit breakers may have to be removed to get to the attaching screws.
I would transfer the new switch to the old box, I think.
Here is one. It says 37 in stock!
[Parallax ATS301 30 Amp 120 Volt Automatic Line/generator Transfer Switch -...](Froxlor Server Management Panel (http://www.boatandrvaccessories) .com/products/parallax-ats301-30-amp-120-volt-automatic-line-generator-transfer-switch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4L2BBhCvARIsAO0SBdZRJKluiIylIvF2Z9rG_4WNbIFFmrO2xw3hvwtknCLEuXEqlKCI1_YaAspJEALw_wcB)
It is possible that the switch you get won't match your's but the picture does.
Amazon's picture does not. Might be a bit of a crapshoot. Worst case transfer the new parts to the old box.
I think I need to solve the issue of why the generator outputting 170 VAC first. I tested it at the circuit breaker on the generator itself.
I want to figure out how to test the voltage regulator now (part 305-0809-01).
1995 23.5 Twin King
Something else to consider: it's possible you may have a "peak reading voltmeter". 120 volts that we normally associate with our "normal" ac readings is an RMS value, RMS meaning root meas square. It just so happens that RMS times the square root of 2 equal peak value. In this case 120 x 1.414 = 169.95 (or something like that). My suggestion would be to read the voltage with another meter, just to confirm the RMS value is actually 170 volts. You may actually have nothing to fix.
Ken
On 2/19/2021 5:49 PM, tedeboy via LDO wrote:
I think I need to solve the issue of why the generator outputting 170 VAC first. I tested it at the circuit breaker on the generator itself.
I want to figure out how to test the voltage regulator now (part 305-0809-01).
1995 23.5 Twin King
I did confirm the accuracy of my meter.
I wish it measured frequency.
Hi Ted; I went to Flight Systems for help. https://www.flightsystems.com/pdf/onan-rv-troubleshooting-guide.pdf On page 6 midway, they have frequent questions/ answers concerning too high a voltage. They say that the regulator board could be bad, but first check connections, especially pin 2. Sounds like that is worth a try. RonB
Hi Ted; I went to Flight Systems for help. https://www.flightsystems.com/pdf/onan-rv-troubleshooting-guide.pdf On page 6 midway, they have frequent questions/ answers concerning too high a voltage. They say that the regulator board could be bad, but first check connections, especially pin 2. Sounds like that is worth a try. RonB
Thank you.
I also sent them an email with my issue.
UPDATE
I followed this video for testing.
MEASURING YOUR GENERATOR WINDINGS (https://youtu.be/sUJxYqTJW1A)
I then called Flight Systems with the results.
They are so helpful.
Pins 9 and 10 test was not good.
I've got new brushes and springs coming plus I need to shine up the rings.
Chances are my regulator is damaged they said by the fluctuations from the brushes not making good contact.
That video is very helpful.
Normally, monthly generator runs are all it takes to keep the slip rings clean, the spring-loaded brushes rub the slip rings and remove minor surface contamination.
If me, I would be tempted to let the generator run for a long period, an hour or more, and then remeasure the resistance.
This may be enough to eliminate the problem, it doesn't cost much to do, other than the fuel used.
I can't see where this would cause any more damage.
Cleaning the slip rings and replacing the brushes will require dropping the generator, a big task unless you are equipped to do such work. I suggest using a transmission jack to lower the genset.
Larry
Cleaning the slip rings and replacing the brushes will require dropping the generator, a big task unless you are equipped to do such work. I suggest using a transmission jack to lower the genset.
Larry
Fortunately I got to my brush assembly and removed it without dropping the generator (or one of the mounting screws LOL). This also exposed the rings for which I have a Flight Systems "Slick Stick" in order to shine them up with.
Fortunately I got to my brush assembly and removed it without dropping the generator (or one of the mounting screws LOL). This also exposed the rings for which I have a Flight Systems "Slick Stick" in order to shine them up with.
I guess the Emerald generators have better access than the newer Onans.
Glad it is simpler than I thought.
Larry
I guess the Emerald generators have better access than the newer Onans.
Glad it is simpler than I thought.
Larry
I removed the air filter housing and there it was.
The most nerve racking part was being careful to not drop one of the mounting screws. 😅
(https://i.postimg.cc/L5KGSD2Q/20210223-151812.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/66nD0kfk/20210223-151818.jpg)
Update:
Replaced brushes and springs.
Shined the rings.
That brought my stationary ohm reading into tolerance on the 9/10 pins at 25 ohms.
Problem is during spinning the ohms flucuate from 0.00 to OL at those same pins.
I think I have a short in the rotor.
Hi Ted; That may be normal; I'm not sure that you are using the ohm meter in it's most sensitive range. You should at least be reading about 1-2 ohms for the resistance of the meter leads. A shorted rotor would never generate 170 V AC. The pin 9 to pin 10 resistance, if that is across the rotor winding, fits the 25 ohm spec. If the slip rings and brushes are connecting well, then the reading shouldn't fluctuate much.
What happens when you try running it now? And the voltage regulator is suspect; it controls how much current flows in the rotor, which determines the voltage output of the stator. The stator provides the 4 KW output to the coach. ( and the 'excitation' voltage to the rotor).
The rotor could have damaged insulation or connections inside the rotor that move, or hit the stator iron laminations during rotation. Always a chance to pick up rocks with the fan during motion of the RV. RonB
Hi Ted; That may be normal; I'm not sure that you are using the ohm meter in it's most sensitive range. You should at least be reading about 1-2 ohms for the resistance of the meter leads. A shorted rotor would never generate 170 V AC. The pin 9 to pin 10 resistance, if that is across the rotor winding, fits the 25 ohm spec. If the slip rings and brushes are connecting well, then the reading shouldn't fluctuate much.
What happens when you try running it now? ...
I am in touch with Tyler at Flight Systems. He said that ohm reading shouldn't fluctuate much during rotation. They say if it does drop then bad windings or short in the rotor.
My goal is to make sure everything before the voltage regulator tests good prior to installing a new regulator. I want to make sure I don't ruin a new regulator.
Measuring Generator Windings (https://youtu.be/sUJxYqTJW1A)
Hi Ted; Thanks for that Flight Systems video link. Before the repair price gets too high, you could upgrade to the newer MicroQuiet that newer LD's have. RV GENERATOR-ONAN MICROQUIET 4000 WATTS-GAS|55-0050 (https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-appliances/generator/permanent-generators/rv-generators-permanent/onan-generator-microquiet_55-0050). I would expect that it would fit in the same space. The muffler is internal, and re-selling your '95 TK might be easier if or when your new MB arrives. We live in the same climate, and have about the same age Emeralds +, with similar hours. (mine has about 140 hours). RonB
Hi Ted; Thanks for that Flight Systems video link. Before the repair price gets too high, you could upgrade to the newer MicroQuiet that newer LD's have. RV GENERATOR-ONAN MICROQUIET 4000 WATTS-GAS|55-0050 (https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-appliances/generator/permanent-generators/rv-generators-permanent/onan-generator-microquiet_55-0050). I would expect that it would fit in the same space. The muffler is internal, and re-selling your '95 TK might be easier if or when your new MB arrives. We live in the same climate, and have about the same age Emeralds +, with similar hours. (mine has about 140 hours). RonB
Very good point Ron.
My repair costs need to be factored in for sure. Anything over a certain amount and new is preferred.
I'm tempted to replace the entire generator anyway.
Very good point Ron.
My repair costs need to be factored in for sure. Anything over a certain amount and new is preferred.
I'm tempted to replace the entire generator anyway.
I hate to open this can of worms, but here goes something to think about.
If I didn't already have a working generator, and was looking at the cost of buying a new one, I would at least consider spending the same money on solar plus lithium batteries plus inverter.
I'm not sure that the answer would be the same for everyone, but I think technology and prices are approaching the point where not having a generator could be the right answer for some.
This is based on a price of $4000-$5000 for a new Onan 4000 installed. There are cheaper options out there for sure.
Rich
Very good point Ron.
My repair costs need to be factored in for sure. Anything over a certain amount and new is preferred.
I'm tempted to replace the entire generator anyway.
Don't you have new LD on order?
I think you will hesitate when you see how much installing a newer generator is going to cost. The old Emeralds are not available anymore, requiring a newer model that fits very differently.
Something to research.
Larry
Don't you have new LD on order?
I think you will hesitate when you see how much installing a newer generator is going to cost. The old Emeralds are not available anymore, requiring a newer model that fits very differently.
Something to research.
Larry
We haven't gotten "the call" but we are in the list. I want this TK to be in good working order before she goes to market.
By all indications I have a "flying short" in the rotor. Just talked with Flight Systems and another repair guy.
I'll need to drop and replace the rotor. Unfortunately I don't have the
jack to do this nor the strength by myself. I'll need to find a way.
Rotor plus the new circuit breaker plus a new voltage regulator and I'm close to $1,000 or more so far.
Such is the life of a motorhome owner.
We haven't gotten "the call" but we are in the list. I want this TK to be in good working order before she goes to market.
By all indications, I have a "flying short" in the rotor. Just talked with Flight Systems and another repair guy.
I'll need to drop and replace the rotor.
Rotor plus the new circuit breaker plus a new voltage regulator and I'm close to $1,000 or more so far.
it will be cheaper to repair than to replace.
A transmission jack is handy for removing generators. An equipped generator shop can drop it in just a few minutes.
Larry
it will be cheaper to repair than to replace.
A transmission jack is handy for removing generators. An equipped generator shop can drop it in just a few minutes.
Larry
I got a quote from Quality RV in El Cajon, CA.
$800 new rotor windings.
$163 per hour @ 4 hours.
$300 new regulator.
It'll be $2,000 at least.
But yes, cheaper.
Rich,
I’ve only had my solar system with 800+ watts of solar and 5 Battleborns for a short time but I soon realized that the generator still plays an important role in keeping the batteries charged during low angled sun and cloudy days.
That being said it takes less generator time to go from 40% charge to 100%.
I kinda cringe when I hear that RVers have dumped the genny because they increased their solar/battery capacity.
I prefer to cover all my bases. That’s just me.
Kent
Rich,
I’ve only had my solar system with 800+ watts of solar and 5 Battleborns for a short time but I soon realized that the generator still plays an important role in keeping the batteries charged during low angled sun and cloudy days.
That being said it takes less generator time to go from 40% charge to 100%.
I kinda cringe when I hear that RVers have dumped the genny because they increased their solar/battery capacity.
I prefer to cover all my bases. That’s just me.
Kent
Agree. It depends on your usage.
I'm curious to know which one you would choose if you had $5k to spend and only wanted to pick only one due to either space or budget limits.
I've thought about the question in terms of building a trailer and outfitting it from scratch, but having a failed generator puts you in a similar situation.
Rich
Agree. It depends on your usage.
I'm curious to know which one you would choose if you had $5k to spend and only wanted to pick only one due to either space or budget limits.
I've thought about the question in terms of building a trailer and outfitting it from scratch, but having a failed generator puts you in a similar situation.
Rich
We were in a hot wind storm at Lake Powell. I'm thankful we had a generator for the A/C. I'm not sure what we would have done. I guess we'd would have been forced to leave.
I’ve only had my solar system with 800+ watts of solar and 5 Battleborns for a short time but I soon realized that the generator still plays an important role in keeping the batteries charged during low angled sun and cloudy days.
That being said it takes less generator time to go from 40% charge to 100%.
I kinda cringe when I hear that RVers have dumped the genny because they increased their solar/battery capacity.
I prefer to cover all my bases. That’s just me
Short, winter days, cloudy days, or trees all can restrict or eliminate any solar gains, sometimes for days. Last summer, while camped at Mammoth, the combination of some tree and cloudy days eliminated much or any solar gain. After a few days, a generator run is a necessity.
Our 1983 LD did not have a generator and it was a real problem when dry camping for more than a couple of days. The 1983 LD only had a 120-watt of solar and it was in the pre-LED days. If the coach battery was deeply discharged, running the engine was the only way to recharge it quickly, moving every two to three days became our way of traveling.
More battery capacity and increased solar extend the days you can camp in no solar gain places.
With the adaption of lithium batteries, a 120-VAC battery charger that can fully utilize the generator's 30-amp output would be a good addition to minimize generator fun time, if and when they are available.
Larry
Hi Ted. That RV place in El Cajon probably shops it out to a generator repair place. An advantage you have, is that you can go to where the repair place is. There are repaired ones available, but of unknown age and overall condition. Cummins Onan Emerald GenSet 4000 Watt RV Generator 4 kW | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-Onan-Emerald-GenSet-4000-Watt-RV-Generator-4-kW/274690039988?hash=item3ff4cd60b4:g:kCsAAOSw69Ff1rn~)
The $2k is sounding better for hassle factor. I'd shop around in the industrial L.A. region. Arizona, Nevada might be worth the trip there. RonB
The $2k is sounding better for hassle factor. I'd shop around in the industrial L.A. region. Arizona, Nevada might be worth the trip there. RonB
I've been informed that Quality RV and the Onan/Cummins dealer in San Diego County are the two best in town.
Quality RV isn't as expensive and get better reviews for what that is worth.
I'm not dropping this thing.
It's looking like I'm going to bite the bullet and take it in.
I’m a huge fan of “take it in”. Keeps me from screwing things up & it supports the economy.
Kent
Rich,
Solar can be an inexpensive addition to an RV. Panel prices have dropped along with the cost of inverters and controllers. AM Solar has DIY kits and offer assistance for installation.
For a simple system, golf cart batteries do just fine for storage. Upgrade as time and $ allow. No need to spend a fortune right away.
For $5,000 I might split the cash between a reliable portable generator (if one does not already exist in the rig) and a solar kit. Five grand is a lot of money for a DIY system. I’ve seen some systems made for much less. The addition of a generator would help in eliminating power short falls. It all comes down to putting all your eggs in one basket. When one part of the equation fails, you still have a back up.
Just a thought.
Kent
Hi Ted; thanks for doing the research. Let us know how it goes, and I'm wishing that it goes well for you. RonB
Hi Ted; thanks for doing the research. Let us know how it goes, and I'm wishing that it goes well for you. RonB
Thanks for the help Ron.
It's at the stage where it needs to be dropped. This will be a good opportunity for the shop to go over it thoroughly.
I was hoping I could fix this but it's at the point where it's impractical for me to remove it.
I have the same generator in our 94 and I have studied how a guy drops it, I think you made the right decision. While your at it, have them change the back spark plug.
Jon
I have the same generator in our 94 and I have studied how a guy drops it, I think you made the right decision. While your at it, have them change the back spark plug.
Jon
I changed the plugs a couple of years ago. There is an access port on the back wall. Very handy!
I had a bad fuel pump that I changed out and I looked for an access hole for the rear plug then and didn't see one. I'm gonna look again now. Thanks.
Jon
I had a bad fuel pump that I changed out and I looked for an access hole for the rear plug then and didn't see one. I'm gonna look again now. Thanks.
Jon
My 95 has access.
I typed up a sheet for the generator repair guy.
Would you add anything?
Thanks.
Generator issues from start of symptoms to now
• No power to the motorhome with generator running.
• Noticed generator breaker was tripped off.
• Replaced breaker but breaker still tripped off.
• Tested lead at the breaker while running and it was 170 VAC.
• Unhooked the Automatic Transfer Switch, started the generator, and the breaker stayed on.
• Tested 9 and 10 pins at plug to regulator at 70 ohms.
• Started generator and tested 9 and 10 pins. Ohms all over the place.
• Replaced brushes and shined up rings
• Static tested 9 and 10 pins at plug to regulator at a steady 24 ohms.
• Started generator and tested 9 and 10 pins. Ohms still all over the place.
With this diagnostics I have been told that the rotor has a “flying short” in it.
I am also concerned that the ATS has been damaged inside the motorhome.
I didn’t get a regulator for fear of ruining it.
I wanted to find out the deeper issues first.
Hi Ted; I'd reference that the generator engine was running, but the regulator was unplugged, when you tested the ohms of the brush/slip rings fluctuating while the rotor was turning. I'd also reference 'Flight Systems" as the source of the diagnosis of a 'flying short' in the wiring of the rotor. The RV dealer in El Cajon may already know about Flight Systems. RonB
Hi Ted; I'd reference that the generator engine was running, but the regulator was unplugged, when you tested the ohms of the brush/slip rings fluctuating while the rotor was turning. I'd also reference 'Flight Systems" as the source of the diagnosis of a 'flying short' in the wiring of the rotor. The RV dealer in El Cajon may already know about Flight Systems. RonB
Good advice Ron.
Thanks
Update:
Quality RV in El Cajon, CA dropped the generator.
It needs a new carburetor (choke) and voltage regulator plus an oil change and general going overall for a lot less than I thought.
Jerry at Quality RV has been great to work with. I recommend him for generator work.
It still needs an AT Switch. The 170v ruined it. They just do generator work at Quality RV so I'll be calling other shops about replacing the ATS.
I've been suggested Sonrise RV in Oceanside, CA and I know a mobile repair guy also.
I've been suggested Sonrise RV in Oceanside, CA and I know a mobile repair guy also.
Sonrise RV is in Escondido, CA Sonrise RV (https://www.sonriserv.com/contact-us)
If you decide to use them let us know how it goes.
Charles
Sonrise RV is in Escondido, CA Sonrise RV (https://www.sonriserv.com/contact-us)
If you decide to use them let us know how it goes.
Charles
They are booked out for a month. I am looking into installing the ATS myself or having my mobile repair guy do it.
They are booked out for a month.
Same story almost everywhere around here.
Charles
New carb, new voltage regulator, plugs, oil change, and it now runs better than it ever has.
Quality RV did a good job.
I just need to replace the ATS and I'm good to go!
ON EDIT:
I asked Jerry at Quality RV how often the generator should be ran for maintaining it and his answer surprised me.
"2 hours every 30 days under the heaviest possible load."
😯
New carb, new voltage regulator, plugs, oil change, and it now runs better than it ever has.
Quality RV did a good job.
I just need to replace the ATS and I'm good to go!
ON EDIT:
I asked Jerry at Quality RV how often the generator should be ran for maintaining it and his answer surprised me.
"2 hours every 30 days under the heaviest possible load."
😯
I've heard this also but usually don't have the patience for much more that 30-45 minutes.
Chris
I asked Jerry at Quality RV how often the generator should be ran for maintaining it and his answer surprised me.
"2 hours every 30 days under the heaviest possible load."
😯
I was under the impression it was only one hour until I got a copy of the Onan manual which states to run it for two hours under load.
Time for a good book or crosswords puzzle
I run ours for about a half hour at about 3,000 watts load. That's going to have to be good enough.
Jon
I was under the impression it was only one hour until I got a copy of the Onan manual which states to run it for two hours under load.
I'm wondering if 1/2 hour per week is good or does it need to be ran for 2 hours all at once?
The objective is to bring the oil temp high enough, long enough, to remove all the moisture and let the brushes remove the oxidation from the slip rings. Thirty minutes probably does it in Arizona, maybe not in Florida.
If you drain the carburetor after running clogged jets may not be an issue.
I run my genny twice a month. Each time for one hour with either the roof AC or Roof Heater running.
That’s pretty much the norm from what I understand. Five years with our ‘15 RB and the genny has started every time.
Except for an adjustment for altitude, all has been trouble free.
Kent
Got the auto transfer switch out.
A new one is on the way!
This one smells burnt.
I double checked the generator voltage at the leads coming into the ATS and the testing was 120.
So much better than 170 😳😂
(https://i.postimg.cc/g2LQ04T3/20210320-130948.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qM5W0Wjk/20210320-130957.jpg)
Somebody through the years relocated ours in the cupboard under the sink. Much easier to access I think.
Jon
I'm wondering if 1/2 hour per week is good or does it need to be ran for 2 hours all at once?
The time needed to get the generator up to operating temperature and hold it for 10-15 minutes is primarily based on the ambient temperature.
In warm climates a half-hour may be enough, in artic conditions, two hours may not be enough.
When running monthly, put as heavy a load on it as possible.
Larry
A happy ending.
I just installed a new ATS plus my batteries that needed replacing are 5 years old.
All the parts, labor, and batteries came to about $1,500.
It runs great.
Like new.
😊
(https://i.postimg.cc/2y2ZzGmv/20210324-174718.jpg)
Thought so. My 1988 had a similar kind of symptoms. It only took the generator stalling a few times under Air Conditioning inrush start loads to cause mine to fail.