Yesterday for the first time I tried my hand at winterizing our LD. I found that, when blowing out the lines, nothing happens when the cold is turned off and the hot turned on: no water or air to be heard or felt coming out through the faucet. Is that a problem? What is the fix? #newbie #allthumbs
Yesterday for the first time I tried my hand at winterizing our LD. I found that, when blowing out the lines, nothing happens when the cold is turned off and the hot turned on: no water or air to be heard or felt coming out through the faucet. Is that a problem? What is the fix? #newbie #allthumbs
What year and model LD do you have?
Chris
Is the plug out on your water heater? If so, no air would come out the faucets.
Jon
Jon, yes, thank you (duh). So, re-plug the hot water heater and try again.
Chris: 2001, 26 ft, mid bath
Jon, yes, thank you (duh). So, re-plug the hot water heater and try again.
Also, quick tip - something I learned the "wet" way on my first winterizing attempt with air - relieve pressure on the water system BEFORE pulling the plug on the water heater - otherwise, you may get wet...
The first time I tried blowing my system, I forgot to drain the water heater, so the first hot water tap I tried kept running water instead of clearing. I realized I still had a full hot water tank, so figured I'd drain that quickly then continue, forgetting the system was still charged. When the plug came out, it drained quickly all right. I got soaked! Lesson learned.
Ken
Ken, that was a classic "The next time I do that it will be a mistake" ;)
Some winterizing tips:
FMCA Tech Tip: RV Storage - Some Do’s and Don’ts - RV Trader Blog (https://blog.rvtrader.com/2020/11/fmca-tech-tip-rv-storage-some-dos-and.html)
Also, quick tip - something I learned the "wet" way on my first winterizing attempt with air - relieve pressure on the water system BEFORE pulling the plug on the water heater - otherwise, you may get wet...
The first time I tried blowing my system, I forgot to drain the water heater, so the first hot water tap I tried kept running water instead of clearing. I realized I still had a full hot water tank, so figured I'd drain that quickly then continue, forgetting the system was still charged. When the plug came out, it drained quickly all right. I got soaked! Lesson learned.
Ken
I think most of us have been there done that. :D
Started the winterizing process today using the blowout method spelled out in the LD manual. When I got to the part for the water pump, it says to remove the plastic strainer bowl from the pump housing and clean out the stainless steel strainer. I was surprised to find this when I did. Any idea where these plastic shavings came from? Maybe as a result of the manufacturing process?
Started the winterizing process today using the blowout method spelled out in the LD manual. When I got to the part for the water pump, it says to remove the plastic strainer bowl from the pump housing and clean out the stainless steel strainer. I was surprised to find this when I did. Any idea where these plastic shavings came from? Maybe as a result of the manufacturing process?
It could be left over from when the output fitting on the water tank was installed.
The filter did its job.
Larry
Hi Greg; never have checked the strainer in my TK. Guess now I will have to look. Wish I had a shutoff valve now, so there goes 48 gallons. Maybe a good time to install a shut off valve. RonB
I’m waiting parts for the next step in the winterizing process which requires access to the rear of the water pump. Underneath the blue plastic bag is the converter/charger unit (I covered it while disconnecting the pump’s outlet side connector in the rear of the pump). As you can see, access to the rear of the pump is quite limited by the converter sticking into the cabinet. Can I loosen the mounting screws for the converter and push it out a little to gain more room to work? Are there any electrical concerns, if so? I do have the battery disconnect switch on the coach batteries.
Hi Greg; never have checked the strainer in my TK. Guess now I will have to look. Wish I had a shutoff valve now, so there goes 48 gallons. Maybe a good time to install a shut off valve. RonB
My I suggest something like this
Amazon.com: Steck Manufacturing 20085 EZ Pull Plier: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/Steck-Manufacturing-20085-Pull-Plier/dp/B0015DQH44/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=3.5+in+pliers&qid=1607818455&sr=8-15)
Put this on the intake side so you don't have to dump water.
glen
ps learned this the hard way when I had to replace a water pump when we were boondocking.
Making slow progress on my winterizing. Just got the blowout hose yesterday but now I need to adapt from the fitting on the hose to the fitting on the water pump. Does anyone know what size the water pump fittings are? Looks like a trip to Home Depot.
The fitting on the pump has a threaded female collar to match the threaded male fitting on the hose; you should be able to fit the one to the other, no add'l parts necessary.
Sean, I'm trying to adapt from the blowout hose that I purchased on Amazon to the water pump outlet so I can blow the lines out. See photo.
Hi Greg, you still need to blow out the pump, the strainer cracked from residual water in the strainer in at least one persons post here in the past. You don't need to pressurize the house water lines very much, so you could tape it together for now. If I ever needed to 'winterize' where I store my LD (driveway) I would blow it out, then pump antifreeze from the fresh water tank, throughout and into the traps and black/gray tanks. Then drain the extra 5+ gallons of antifreeze back into jugs for use again.
I guess that David in Florida didn't require a bypass kit on the water heater. RonB
Does anyone know what size the water pump fittings are? Looks like a trip to Home Depot.
Following the lead of Andy, I’ve found that driving the project (RV) to Home Depot and assembling the fittings in the parking lot cuts down on the number of trips.
Rich
I've installed a bypass valve between the water tank outlet and the pump inlet. It lets me suck antifreeze into the system and through the pump. I also have a bypass on the water heater then I just pump anti freeze through the system. Just not enough room in that pump area for me to work.
Jon
Hey Gregg,
Looks like you have a lot going on with your new "toy". I don't use the blow out winterizing method so I'm not well versed in all the intricacies. But I seem to remember reading somewhere that the compressor you use should be an "oil free" compressor. I am not sure if you were aware of this or not.
Happy trails,
Steve K.
Does anyone know what size the water pump fittings are? Looks like a trip to Home Depot.
Greg,
1/2" FPT fits onto the male water pump connections.. I used a 30" toilet water connection pipe that I got at Lowes, although afterwards I saw that they had a 1/2" FPT to 1/2" barb adapter. I think the toilet connection is going back and I'll get that adapter and about 5 feet of vinyl tubing. 30" was a bit short to easily suck the antifreeze.
Linda
And does anyone know an easy way to get to the back of the water heater in a RB to install a bypass? It's crammed in there behind the furnace and the circuit board.
Linda
Thanks, everyone! After a trip to Home Depot to get the necessary parts, I was able to complete the blow out method as per the Lazy Daze manual. I had used the non-toxic antifreeze method on a previous RV, which was easy since there was already a water heater bypass installed, but wanted to use the blow out method on the LD since we hope to use it during the winter on a monthly basis. Dewinterizing using the blowout method appears to be relatively simple and quick.
The hardest part was reaching the back of the water pump, which was made easier by moving the converter/charger unit out of that space to get more room. The funny thing was, as I was working on the LD this afternoon, it started snowing so I guess I got it done just in time! And yes, Steve, I did use an oil free compressor- an important reminder for those that use this method!
Here are some photos of the process.
By the way, does anyone know what the copper wire is (on the left side in the photo) coming out of the top of the converter? Is it a ground?
I'm curious about the stand up mount for the water pump that seems designed to make replacement very easy. Is that a factory feature now? Does anyone know if there is a practical reason for the pump to be oriented with the inlet/outlet at the top?
I'm still on my original water pump and I've been considering a preemptive replacement. Way back when (2003), the mothership was still screwing pumps directly to the floor.
Rich
Your copper wire is ground probably off the 120v ground buss. A quick thing to think about, when you are using steel fittings on the plastic, cross threading is a real possibility. Use caution. Removing the converter sure makes it a workable space.
Jon
Your copper wire is ground probably off the 120v ground buss. A quick thing to think about, when you are using steel fittings on the plastic, cross threading is a real possibility. Use caution. Removing the converter sure makes it a workable space.
Good point, Jon. I should probably switch that nipple out to plastic.
Greg,
That bare copper wire has to be a ground (or it could cause big problems).
Easiest way to figure out what it is for is to check the installation manual where you should find wiring diagrams.
OR you can try to see where it actually connects (maybe inside the main electrical panel if you take that cover off) and see if that spot is labeled, trying to confirm it is that wire by tracing it back to that entry spot (and confirming only one bare wire anywhere).
Jane
As suggested by a forum member, I would like to find an easier way to blow out the water lines when winterizing using the air method. This is the section of line I’m thinking of modifying to accomplish that and is attached to the outlet side of the water pump. Since it’s attached to the rear of the pump, it’s somewhat difficult to get to without sliding the converter out. Any suggestions on a good way to add a tee or some other fitting in the hose assembly?
Hi Greg. Do you blow air through your water pump? This valve can be placed between the fresh water tank and your pump. When switched from 'tank' to the other line hooked to your air compressor, air could be run to your coach through the pump, while blocking off the water tank line. Instead of air, pink antifreeze could be sucked by your pump and run through the coach.
Valve: Joywayus 3 Way Shut Off Ball Valve 1/2" Hose Barb T Shaped Brass Fitting One... (https://www.amazon.com/Joywayus-Valve-Shaped-Fitting-Switch/dp/B08DRBB9V3/ref=pd_day0_1?pd_rd_w=T7Uz0&pf_rd_p=8ca997d7-1ea0-4c8f-9e14-a6d756b83e30&pf_rd_r=AT6WBH22TDDD7BA4TJPM&pd_rd_r=0bbffd1c-4788-4f71-ba81-b92641e45424&pd_rd_wg=iqXkv&pd_rd_i=B08DRBB9V3&psc=1). RonB
edit: The description is almost unintelligible. Translated by a non native english writer. It doesn't specify 'lead free' which you want for a water line component that is always there. Also it could restrict the maximum water flow, but then again, in an RV that might not be an issue.
..... This valve can be placed between the fresh water tank and your pump. ...
I understand pumping pink stuff with this setup but using the pressure air for winterizing, shouldn't connection be done on the other side of the pump. I know what water pump does but never seen unassembled pump, I think it would not let air pass unless somebody take the risk with dry run water pump. I don't know anything on this topic but if Ron's suggestion work, I will simply put in Camco winterizing kit mentioned few days go and use if for both pink and air winterization depending on the situation and need.
Regards,
I hadn’t considered blowing through from the suction side of the pump so thanks for that idea. That would be better as long as it doesn’t harm the pump which it shouldn’t as long as the air pressure is regulated down to 50-55 psi. I’ll take a look at that possibility when things warm up. I did the pink stuff on my last RV and would prefer to use air instead as I plan on camping on and off during the winter months.
Hi Greg, Muhammed; You can run the pump dry without harm, for a while at least. (thats what they say)
But as a routine, empty the fresh water tank, and run the pump to get as much water out as possible. Then I would pressurize the house water system from the outside water connection to blow water out of the faucets. I would then switch that valve (installed before the pump), to put pink antifreeze into all of the plumbing and traps. Opening that three way valve just a little would suck remaining water from the hose that comes from the water tank.
Bypass valves at the water heater could save a few gallons, if they were easy to install and operate. Draining the water heater tank first during the air blow out would get most of the water out of it. RonB
Ron, when you say “outside water connection”, are you referring to the city water connection?
Hi Greg; Yes. That provides a direct connection into the line going to the house plumbing. The water pump acts like the one way check valve to prevent water flow into the tank. In this case air is prevented running into the (empty fresh water tank). Keep that air pressure down to 25-30 psi. It is the volume of flow that pushes water out of the faucets. Water from the pipes will end up in the HWH, but the air will clean out the faucets, toilet etc.. Then drain that tank. Much easier with a valve.
That gets water out of the city water connection hose. Then run the pump to clean out the line from the HWH tank, strainer and pump. Then if you missed any water, the 3 way valve will let you introduce antifreeze through the strainer/pump into the house, fill the heater, out the faucets into the traps.
I worked on a friends 2001 MB in 2017. I planned to put 3 way plastic valves in the lines under the sink going to the outdoor shower, to facilitate emptying those hoses and shower while leaving water to the house on. Didn't have time, don't know if they followed through with the winterizing. It is sitting in Mass. now. Gauranteed to be below freezing.
Non brass valves: The Home Depot Logo (https://www.homedepot.com/p/PEXLock-1-2-in-Plastic-PEX-Barb-x-Barb-x-Barb-3-Way-90-Degree-Bypass-Valve-with-Clamps-30910/308745536)
RonB
Hi Greg; Yes. That provides a direct connection into the line going to the house plumbing. The water pump acts like the one way check valve to prevent water flow into the tank. In this case air is prevented running into the (empty fresh water tank). Keep that air pressure down to 25-30 psi. It is the volume of flow that pushes water out of the faucets. Water from the pipes will end up in the HWH, but the air will clean out the faucets, toilet etc.. Then drain that tank. Much easier with a valve.
That gets water out of the city water connection hose. Then run the pump to clean out the line from the HWH tank, strainer and pump. Then if you missed any water, the 3 way valve will let you introduce antifreeze through the strainer/pump into the house, fill the heater, out the faucets into the traps.
I worked on a friends 2001 MB in 2017. I planned to put 3 way plastic valves in the lines under the sink going to the outdoor shower, to facilitate emptying those hoses and shower while leaving water to the house on. Didn't have time, don't know if they followed through with the winterizing. It is sitting in Mass. now. Gauranteed to be below freezing.
Non brass valves: The Home Depot Logo (https://www.homedepot.com/p/PEXLock-1-2-in-Plastic-PEX-Barb-x-Barb-x-Barb-3-Way-90-Degree-Bypass-Valve-with-Clamps-30910/308745536)
RonB
Your excellent instructions notwithstanding, Ron, just a reminder to folks that the LD manual has specific instructions for either using antifreeze or air for winterizing. Even though I've blown the lines many times over the years, I still refer to the manual every time I winterize or dewinterize, just to make sure I don't miss a step.
Chris
Your excellent instructions notwithstanding, Ron, just a reminder to folks that the LD manual has specific instructions for either using antifreeze or air for winterizing. Even though I've blown the lines many times over the years, I still refer to the manual every time I winterize or dewinterize, just to make sure I don't miss a step.
The instructions in the manual (air method) is what I’ve been using. What I’m trying to achieve is an easier way to hook up the air hose. Unbolting the converter and sliding it out of the cabinet makes it easier but since I will be going through the process several times a winter, it’s not something I want to be doing. This last time I winterized, I left the converter as is but it’s difficult to disconnect the output side of the water pump because of tight quarters.
I like the idea of blowing out the lines, and the water pump itself, from the suction side because of easier access. If it’s ok to blow through the water pump from the suction side, that would be best, I think. Using Ron’s suggestion to blow through the city water connection sounds good also but the water pump would need to be dealt with separately, right?
Still debating the best way to blow air through the lines. Would it be detrimental to blow through the water pump and strainer assembly from the suction side (see photo)?
I know old post and saw it when you posted and we also talked about three way valve ..... these pictures are very helpful. I tried winterization yesterday and realized that blow out I have was wrong size, I took the easy way out and called LazyDaze and hopefully it is on its way. I was hoping hose in front of me was outbound but of course I was wrong and was wondering how I will access other side of the pump ... guess I will follow your lead and take four screws and move converter a bit .... I also toyed with buying 10 gallons of antifreeze and do it easy way but we will be using LD in couple of months and using the air will make it easy .....
Edit: went in with all the tools but found that opening and accessing the other side of the pipe is easy. Not sure about tightening the nut without seeing other side of pump may be a challenge and I do have pictures if I do get stuck. There is not enough space to drain pipes from tank and clean the mess, if I blowout incoming pipe, water will simply go back in the water tank and drain outside, right? I never connected directly with city water and always fill tank, that part of piping should be fine but will unscrew inlet anyway. This will avoid spilling water on tight and difficult space to reach. After blowout and tightening the nut if I fill out plastic cup with winterizer and run the pump, some of the winterizer may stay in pump and dilute residual water in the pump, right? Of course I will iterate few times.
Will find out soon, getting cold here and blowout arrive soon.
Thx
Thanks, everyone! After a trip to Home Depot to get the necessary parts, I was able to complete the blow out method as per the Lazy Daze manual. I had used the non-toxic antifreeze method on a previous RV, which was easy since there was already a water heater bypass installed, but wanted to use the blow out method on the LD since we hope to use it during the winter on a monthly basis. Dewinterizing using the blowout method appears to be relatively simple and quick.
The hardest part was reaching the back of the water pump, which was made easier by moving the converter/charger unit out of that space to get more room. The funny thing was, as I was working on the LD this afternoon, it started snowing so I guess I got it done just in time! And yes, Steve, I did use an oil free compressor- an important reminder for those that use this method!
Here are some photos of the process.
For new folks who will follow me ....
Winterization Time:
Worrying: 3 days
Execution: 1.5 hours (this include all the setup and moving few items from-to between basement to LD enclosure which is on the corner of the backyard and lubrication of grey wand blank tank outlet as well) of my time and about 30 minutes from my wife. With my back condition, I was able to do all the work by just lying on my back on kitchen floor facing pump. I have two additional batteries under the fridge which accelerated compressor setup quick. Talking of additional batteries, if I do it again I will simply get solar power generator (which I am getting anyway).
I have 27 MB and followed the manual directions strictly except for last to next step where it discuss getting water out of p-trap, I just flashed and put some anti freeze in all p-traps. I have outside shower and also have toilet bidet
Parts used 1) Viair compressor 2) air regulator (I think it is cheap one but did the job just fine) 3) blowup pipe from LD (I bought one from amazon even before delivery but I needed some piece to fit it to the water connection. It was much easier for me to call LD instead of going to home depot (I got the piece in three days after the call).
I was worried about tight space under kitchen sink and this email string did not help either but wearing light on my head I saw all the pieces clearly and decided not to touch converter/charger. I also ordered Telescoping Lighted Inspection Mirror，Telescoping LED Lighted Flexible... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071P4YR7K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) in case I am not able to put in pipe back in the pump (I thought it will not be visible I was able to see threads) but this part is not delivered yet and I did not need it either.
Motorhome is in enclose structure and there is no airflow (even with windows open). Propane detector triggered after I pump antifreeze in the water pump (of course some of antifreeze fell in the floor). I was sure it was due to antifreeze but it was a good chance to practice newly acquired propane detector and sure enough there was no propane. I just put the fan close to detector and detector was fine in few minutes.
Hope this write-up will hep some newbie like me in future ....
I am still out of stove and hope shop will receive the part from the vendor before my next week schedule. I will hate to cancel or postpone FL trip ...
Cheers
I know old post and saw it when you posted and we also talked about three way valve ..... these pictures are very helpful. I tried winterization yesterday and realized that blow out I have was wrong size, I took the easy way out and called LazyDaze and hopefully it is on its way. I was hoping hose in front of me was outbound but of course I was wrong and was wondering how I will access other side of the pump ... guess I will follow your lead and take four screws and move converter a bit .... I also toyed with buying 10 gallons of antifreeze and do it easy way but we will be using LD in couple of months and using the air will make it easy .....
Edit: went in with all the tools but found that opening and accessing the other side of the pipe is easy. Not sure about tightening the nut without seeing other side of pump may be a challenge and I do have pictures if I do get stuck. There is not enough space to drain pipes from tank and clean the mess, if I blowout incoming pipe, water will simply go back in the water tank and drain outside, right? I never connected directly with city water and always fill tank, that part of piping should be fine but will unscrew inlet anyway. This will avoid spilling water on tight and difficult space to reach. After blowout and tightening the nut if I fill out plastic cup with winterizer and run the pump, some of the winterizer may stay in pump and dilute residual water in the pump, right? Of course I will iterate few times.
Will find out soon, getting cold here and blowout arrive soon.
Thx