Here is my our new project and intro to the Lazy Daze lifestyle. My girlfriend and I have been looking for a vintage rv under 22 feet to do some traveling in around the state and to see our kids in the surrounding states. I've always like the lazy daze line and after see many other brands of this era, we decided on this one. Its a '73 year model. Very dirty from sitting for the past year next to a farm field but overall in good condition. Low miles and little wear. I will post more pics upon getting it home this weekend.
Very cool, can't wait to see it.
Welcome to the forum!
Steve
good luck, Wiley. Frank
Thanks Frank.... I'm hoping to get thru it as my winter project for early spring.
Here are a few more pics after hauling it out of the field and getting it to my shop. Its in need of a lot of work but I am a wooden boat builder by trade so the variance in platforms will be a welcome change for a few months. I wanted a project that was all original, complete and mostly intact except for the generator door on the passenger rear panel. This will be a winter rainy season project for early spring use. More to come as progress is made.
I look forward to seeing your progress! Good for you for tackling this old girl, I'm sure somehow you will make her proud.
Kristin in Alaska
Hi Wiley; Congratulations on your new project. Those white blotchy lumps on the outside wall are places where water has gotten in behind and corroded the aluminum from the back. Electrolysis. So Bondo and repainting can cover that up, but of course, with a wooden framework no telling what the insides would be like. Take pictures please as we follow along with the renovation. Sweat equity for sure! RonB
Hi Ron, thanks for the reply. I have seen this before on a few aluminium boats I've taken in. The only real way to remedy it is to replace the skinned aluminum with new and I realized that was the direction I'd go before I committed to take it on.
As for the interior wood panels, I have a stack of 4'×8' sheets of birdseye maple ply left over from an earlier boat interior build this year that I will be using to replace all of the original darker panels that were used when it was built as new that will also lighten the interior up a bit. I like things custom but to look as though it were designed and manufactured that way originally. I'm looking forward to the build/renovation of this one 😂
It's refreshing to see someone take on a project like this and know/understand what they're getting into. We see too many who have no idea....
Good luck on the project, and please share your progress!
Rich
Thanks Rich....will do 👍
Looking forward to following your progress. I noticed CA plates. Is that where you are? There is a place in your profile to show where you might be. Wherever you are, there will be get togethers (GTG) after the pandemic that you can join and show off your handywork. Welcome to the FOLD (Fraternal Order of LazyDaze).
See you down the road,
Joel
Thanks Joel, yes San Diego area.
Hi Wiley; Me too, R. PQ RonB
Hey RonB, I used to live in R.B. and still frequently visit friends in P.Q. Nice rig you have there. I really like that color pattern.
Welcome aboard.
I always enjoy watch folks bring an old LD back to life. Good luck and please keep us in the loop.
My guess is you'll have to strip the LD to the bone, replace the timbers and skin. I'm also guessing the engine is a bit worn out. I believe its a GM. I'd be interested on how you find parts for it.
glen
Hi Glen, thanks for the reply.
The engine is a 360 dodge motor. It only has 66,000 original miles on it and starts, runs & drives pretty smoothly as of yesterday's first try with a new battery. Obviously belts, hoses, all rubbers and fluids will be exchanged but I am not planning on doing much mechanically except freshen things up a bit.
As for the rest, as mentioned earlier I am a boat builder by trade so I am used to making what I need when it comes to parts and supplies as no two boats or sides of oak boat are created identically equal so for the outer skins I will cut and roll the panels out of new sheets of aluminum myself in the shop and for the interior bits they will all be milled to fit with radius' accordingly as well. Items such as the LD factory plastic trim, material coverings and hinges & hardware will all be replaced with marine grade hardware and custom edge moldings where originally plastic was used.
The goal long term for this is to have something that compliments my yachting lifestyle when on land or traveling to see family or friends but be every bit as comfortable as my floating home is at sea. I don't normally like production values on mass produced items such as cars, boats, trains etc. so making my own structural and fit out items is something I'm use to doing in my trade anyways. If you have any questions, please feel free to etc me know. Thanks again.
Wiley, you may already have thought of this, but I'd recommend replacing all the electrics with marine-grade parts while you're at it. RV electrical wiring is of poor quality; and RV wiring that was done in 1973 and has been sitting out in a field for years...
Hi Andy thank for the reply.
I was thinking that as well since I already have spools of tinned marine grade wiring and since the wiring is all coming out anyways when replacing the siding, cabinetry and interior lumber. I will likely be replacing the head with a new "AirHead" composting toilet since I already have a new one at my disposal. The 19' rv is such a small compact space that's it's just easier to do it all at one time since everything's coming apart anyways. 👍
"I was thinking that as well since I already have spools of tinned marine grade wiring..."
Yup, you've got the right idea. On all three of my RVs I ended up redoing most of the wiring using Ancor tinned wire, Blue Sea electrical parts, FTZ Crimp 'n' Seal lugs, and so on.
You're speaking my language in hardware!
Having a background as an electronics technician, I thought I knew how to do things. That was until I made friends with people who had worked on boats. From them I learned how to do things right. I won't claim that my rigs (an Airstream and a Trillium fiberglass trailer) are fully up to ABYC standards, but I try to get as close as I can.
👍
While we're on the subject, let me put in a plug for using the right lugs (and butt splices, etc.). This is one of the things I learned from my boater friends.
The first photo here shows a couple of typical crimped-on lugs. There are three things wrong here. First, there's copper showing. That should never happen, but it's common with these lugs because the sleeves are so short. Second, there's no strain relief. In an application such as an RV or boat where motion and vibration are frequent, connections like these are likely to exhibit broken strands over time as the wires flex. Third, the insulation doesn't seal to the wire. That means air and moisture can enter the end of the wire, eventually leading to corrosion. If you've ever taken apart a connection to find that the last inch or so of wire is black with oxidation, you know what I mean.*
The second photo shows an FTZ Crimp 'n' Seal lug (https://www.fisheriessupply.com/sitesearch.aspx?keyword=ftz%20%20crimp%20n%20seal&sitesearch=true). Note how the insulation extends well back onto the wire. This provides strain relief, helping to avoid broken strands. And the insulation is not only heat-shrunk onto the wire, but also lined with hot glue (you can see a tiny ring of it squeezed out at the end of the insulation sleeve). This guarantees a gas-tight, watertight seal to the wire. You won’t have wire oxidizing over time and turning black or green as moisture creeps in at the ends.
You don’t need special training or a two-hundred-dollar crimper to do this; you just need the right lugs (https://www.fisheriessupply.com/sitesearch.aspx?keyword=ftz%20%20crimp%20n%20seal&sitesearch=true). (And a lighter or heat gun to shrink them.) They're not super-expensive, either. I highly recommend them.
* Using marine-grade tinned wire will minimize the chances of this happening, but still...
As a boat builder ancor tinned is all I use. Great minds think alike 👍
Andy, thanks for the info - translating marine to rv. You link had something I had wished for but not found (3 & 4 way butt splices).
Jane
I've seen those 3- and 4-way butt splices, and there are times when I could have used them, but I was always put off by the fact that the junction point is not insulated (see photo).
So when I need to make a 3-way connection, I step up to the next larger size butt connector (from pink to blue, or from blue to yellow) and crimp two wires into one end. Then I strip the third wire twice as far as usual, fold the stripped portion back over itself to make it bulkier, and crimp that into the other end. This may be inelegant, but it works and provides a completely insulated connection.
This method is easier with FTZ's step-down butts (https://www.fisheriessupply.com/ftz-industries-step-down-butt-splice). These look like regular butt splices, but take a different range of wire gauges in each end. They're available in 22-18 x 16-14, 16-14 x 12-10, and 12-10 x 8 gauge. They're pricey, though--a buck apiece or more. But I split an order with a friend, so I could keep some on hand.
ABYC? Oh my, a new rabbit hole I never heard of!
American Boat and Yacht Council (https://abycinc.org/) , Another great thing about the FOLD. :)
Marine-grade tinned wire? Will have to look into that.
Joel
ABYC? Oh my, a new rabbit hole I never heard of!
American Boat and Yacht Council (https://abycinc.org/) , Another great thing about the FOLD.
Joel, for your next trip to the Morro Bay GTG, you can join up. Ahoy, matey!
Morro Bay Yacht Club | 541 Embarcadero, Morro Bay, CA 93442 • (805) 772-3981 (https://www.mbyc.net/)
Joel, for your next trip to the Morro Bay GTG, you can join up. Ahoy, matey!
Morro Bay Yacht Club | 541 Embarcadero, Morro Bay, CA 93442 • (805) 772-3981 (https://www.mbyc.net/)
I may go for this one and see if they have reciprocity: Quartzite Yacht Club (http://www.quartzsiteyachtclub.com/)
But I don't think they're in the same sphere as the ABYC.
I think I need to look into marine-tinned wire before I build my first ham radio system.
If you're going to take the Titanic, you may as well go first class.
joel
I have made my own 3-ways. That way I can mix sizes. All you need is a short bolt and nut to assemble.
Andy - I agree with the exposed part of the 3 & 4 way connectors. I wondered if some shrink wrap portions could be taken off another item and applied at that junction but likely it would not stick at all.
Ok - this is where I get stuck, and once again this week this is coming up as an issue.
In our 89 TK, there is often 3-4 thick pieces of wire (likely 12 gauge stranded but I am guessing) that needs to be connected.
The largest butt splices I have found are 10-12.
But I need to put 2 of the 12 gauge wires in each end.
Examples (what I am doing this week)
Light middle of back lounge area ceiling has 4 large stranded plus the thin wire from the light - for the white wires. It has 3 large stranded plus the thin wire from the red/black wires.
This is common in our LD - large numbers of thick wire, connected with a wire nut.
There is no way to make a good connection putting 2 thicker wires into one end of a 10-12 gauge butt splice. A 10-12 gauge 4 way would work but electrical tape over the raw metal part in the middle would not last long (maybe 5 years). I don’t have enough experience with the more robust 3M electrical tape that Larry referred to in a another post to know If it would last longer - though it should.
That said, I have been amazed that 30 year old wire nuts have held up very well. Put on properly of course.
I should note that there were no gang boxes anywhere, not even for 120v (these are rated so that if the wires came undone and rested against the Inside of the box it would not start a fire - whereas if the wire rested against against wood etc., a fire could start).
I have put in gang boxes for all 120v locations (outlets and where wires are wire nutted together) including when it is inside a wood chase (large area of wood framing).
I have not yet done that for all 12v connections (I did one place that had many 12v connectors in one spot (the switch at the doorway) because that was vertical and gravity plus bouncing made it more likely to shake loose a wire.
So how do boat people handle spots with wires too big to go into 10-12 butt splices (eg 2 12 gauge wires in each end). Or is there some secret source for larger ones I have not yet found?
Jane
Jane, isn't there a closed end crimp connector that comes in varying sizes. It's more permanent than a wire nut but would also give the same result. Laze Daze sure likes their red wire nuts. One size fits all.
Amazon.com: 100 PCS Closed End Crimp Terminal, Nylon Wire Connector,... (https://www.amazon.com/Closed-Crimp-Terminal-Connector-Aluminum/dp/B01MV1IDN8/ref=asc_df_B01MV1IDN8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242022044358&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16412130858663589168&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1020899&hvtargid=pla-588890259992&psc=1)
Jon
"So how do boat people handle spots with wires too big to go into 10-12 butt splices (eg 2 12 gauge wires in each end)."
You could solder the wires together prior to connecting with the wire nut, if you are adept at that skill. ::)
Hi Jane; When I was replacing fixtures in my ceiling I would find Lazy Daze supplied connections of two, sometimes three 12 gauge stranded wires and the fixture maybe a 16 gauge wire joined in a wire nut, then taped with vinyl electrical tape. I would redo them if I added wires. I usually use a tywrap (trimmed) at the base to keep the wires together, before re-wrapping. This helps later in pulling out the junction without pulling the wire, from the fixture, out of the wire nut. If the wire nut was too full, I would add a junction wire to the original bundle, about 3-4" long and start another wire nut group. I don't expect to ever have any problems with corrosion, loosening or bad connections. Extensive wire mods and additions to my old '79 motorhome have been good when talking to the fellow worker I sold my old motorhome to in 2000. It was still on the road at 37 years, the last time I saw it.
I don't like ring terminals/nuts because they leave metal protusions sticking out that can rub and chafe, although in a wood structure, not so bad. Wire nuts are lumpy too, but plastic. If I'm really concerned about a connection, I shrink wrap the taped wirenut, pinch the part above the wire nut with pliers while it's hot, and add another tywrap over the shrinked tubing to keep the wire from tearing the tubing. Like if you were pulling the bundle out of the ceiling for access.
120 Vac romex should never have a joint not inside a box. Clamps on the wires going in and out of the box. Wirenuts inside the box. In a motorhome I use tape on the wirenuts for moisture protection. I'm 'brutal' with wire nuts. Very ,very tight. There has to be a 'gas tight' deformation of the copper to ensure a lasting low resistance junction. I can't imagine a properly done wirenut ever coming apart. I trust them more than crimped connections.
Heat shrink tubing is available in two layer versions where the inside layer is 'flowable' to seal better. Amazon.com: Dual Wall Heat Shrink KIT - 85 Pieces - 3:1 Shrink Ratio - Size... (https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Wall-Heat-Shrink-KIT/dp/B00RC36FWA?th=1)
and you could paint the junction with liquid electrical tape, let it dry, then heatshrink over the glob. RonB
I should add that I avoid 'cheap' wire nuts. Some are better than others.
As a general rule and ABYC guidelines wire nuts are never used on boats as they are not sealed connections. Splices also are not used on boats, rather one long run from connection point "A" to connection point "B". When you get into larger diameter cables, lugs are used with high quality shrink tube used to seal the lug to cable connections.
Obviously most people aren't going to go to that level when making a temporary repair to get home (but should) but for long term success without risk of failure or fire these methods are recommended.
Additionally joining 2-3 wires from different accessories together to get to + or - points is not a good idea as each component needs it's own fused protection and isolation from each and every circuit.
This helps later in pulling out the junction without pulling the wire, from the fixture, out of the wire nut. If the wire nut was too full, I would add a junction wire to the original bundle, about 3-4" long and start another wire nut group. I don't expect to ever have any problems with corrosion, loosening or bad connections. I can't imagine a properly done wirenut ever coming apart. RonB
When I added my Weboost to the lite outside the closet I ended up connecting to the original with a length of wire and then added the wires I needed. The wires were too short coming out of ceiling. I have faith in wire nuts. I was an Electrician for 13 years and got really good at it. They have stay on in cars for as long as I had the car, some over 10 years. I also got good at crimp on connectors. We use to use wire nuts on motors in an industrial environment. In boats corrosion is an issue, so I can see that.
Jon - those are rated for up to 12 gauge. It doesn’t say how many (eg typically wire nuts say min 2 14 gauge and max 3 10 gauge - I made that up but it gives you an idea).
I am suspicious this is designed to take one wire only since it is called a terminal (eg terminates the line):
I looked at the company for more information or if there were ones that took larger wire but I didnt see anything.
I would need ones that stated that they took 3 (and ones for 4) 12 gauge wires (equivalent to the yellow and red wire nuts).
Lazybones - it is the shrink wrapping I am looking for - protects any bits of wire that might be exposed. I agree with Ron, a good solid connection can be made with soldering, crimping, or twisting as long as it is done right. Since my hand tighten often has to be undone with a wrench by much younger men, I know my Twist is a very secure connection (I twist it till it can’t move anymore).
Wiley - that makes sense for a more robust electrical layout. And moisture protection is critical in a boat (though an RV that can get leaks is close). However Lazydaze didn’t do a one wire to one connection (I honestly don’t know why they did what they did in some areas) - they tended to do whatever the workers were used to with no set format for people to follow and more along house wiring techniques.
Ron - I agree. I was shocked to see not only no Gangboxes for our 120V but also not securely fastened (outlet fastened to cover, cover fastened to ceiling - not outlet securely fastened to a solid part of the LD). It sounds like newer LDs did Use gangboxes which is nice to know. In our 89 they did fasten wire down at the normal household intervals.
I had seen the sheathes but have not used them. The liquid electrical tape sounds good - I am assuming this does not dry up but stays flexible forever? Putting some of this inside the wire nut and down onto the wire would give a good watertight seal. West marine locally was out but Home Depot has it and even has a spray on product.
Thanks everyone for the info.
Jane
I should add I did a search for 8 gauge butt splices - some were really 18, but there was some 8 gauge but I didn’t see any shrink ones.
Jane
Steve and Jill,
IMO we also need to be concerned about moisture/water in our LDs. Electrical is located in the ceiling and walls and that is where leaks happen. By the time anyone sees a leak there has been much more water in the LD structure (eg water gets into the roof or walls and it takes more water to come out into the LD, so often water has been coming in at lower amounts for a while.
A reason we should all do regular inspections of our LDs and also our sticks and bricks homes.
Jane
Jane and Scott
Understood.....however, rv's are more similar to boats than houses on wiring and standards as houses are not subject to constant movement (except in earthquakes or tornadoes) likes rv's and boats are and on the contrary, I've seen many rv's when taken apart that have more water damage inside than most boats I restore on the inside. Home depot or big box store wiring and supplies are best left for houses. Generally the wiring and supplies purchased there are not tinned, have thinner sheathing and are generally purchased and used under/oversized to match the current flow requirements and heat ratings for the length of run and component specs that are required. I have seen rv's, boats, cars and planes burnt to the ground due to inaccurate wiring and/or connector selection. Just be cautious when taking on a wiring repair or replacement by only using the appropriate grade of material and sealing protection. 😊
Wiley,
I agree RVs are closer to boats than houses.
And I consider the entire RV a wet zone between potential outside leaks and spills on the inside.
Regular Preventative maintenance on the coach as well as the chassis makes a difference.
I would love to take an RV and strip it all they way down and redo it - the way I want it to be but that doesn’t look like it is in the plans at all, at least for 10 years.
Andy, you said you redid your wiring. I know you redid your power center, did you redo wiring throughout? Ripping up walls or fishing wires? Only 120V or 12v also?
Jane
When connecting multiple wires together, I prefer to use a marine terminal block, with each wire having its own crimped fitting.
Many terminal blocks have plastic covers to protect against shorting. Check with several marine suppliers, there are many variations of terminal blocks.
Terminal Blocks | Bus Bars | Studs | Marine Grade | New Wire Marine (https://newwiremarine.com/terminal-blocks-and-bus-bars/)
IMO, you can not go wrong using marine-grade electrical components, 95% of my electrical jobs have used marine grade parts, if it is good enough to withstand a saltwater environment, it will work great in a motorhome.
Larry
I had plenty of experience soldering in non-RV/non-boating situations, so I was initially inclined to go that route. But ABYC recommends against soldering connections on boats, and their reasoning applies equally to RVs or any mobile application. The reason is that solder stiffens the end of the wire, and that can lead to metal fatigue and breakage when there's vibration and flexing. They recommend crimped connections.
For large gauge wire, big crimp sleeves are available. These Ancor heavy-duty butts (https://www.fisheriessupply.com/ancor-heavy-duty-butt-connectors-non-insulated) are available in sizes from AWG 8 to AWG 2/0. (I use FTZ "Power Splice" butts, which I believe are heavier-duty than the Ancor ones, but I can't find them on Fisheries' website at the moment. However, they are available on eBay.
Of course you'll also need big lugs. I use FTZ power lugs (https://www.fisheriessupply.com/ftz-industries-heavy-duty-power-lugs), which are heavy-gauge plated copper. Don't make the mistake of using cheaper "battery lugs," which are less durable.
For large wire gauges, you will need a bigger crimper. There are three ways to go. In order of increasing cost, they are hammer crimpers, hydraulic crimpers, and long-handled compound crimpers. Hammer crimpers don't do the best job, but they're cheap--twenty bucks or so. They can be dangerous if you don't keep both hands clear! I saw Mike Sylvester, a very experienced technician, go to the hospital after crushing a finger using one of these. If you must use one, get one that can be screwed down to a board that you can stand on, or mounted to a workbench.
I don't have experience with hydraulic crimpers. I've read that there are some bad ones out there--bad meaning the dies are the wrong sizes--but that's all I know. Hopefully somebody here has experience with this type, and can recommend a good one.
Because I have had to work with cables up to 4/0 in the past, I use an FTZ 94284 "Correct Crimp" compound crimper (https://www.amazon.com/FTZ-Correct-Crimp-Heavy-Duty/dp/B01CRZ465K). It has handles about 18" long--believe me, for large wire gauges you need all the leverage you can get! It handles wire gauges from AWG 6 up to 4/0. It sells for about $150, and believe it or not, that is about the least expensive compound crimper you can find for these large wire gauges. $300 and up is more typical.
If you want to know about connections from A to Z, I highly recommend two articles on the Marine How To website. The first, "Marine Wire Termination," (https://marinehowto.com/marine-wire-termination/) covers smaller, everyday crimping. The second, "Making Your Own Battery Cables," (https://marinehowto.com/making-your-own-battery-cables/) covers the big stuff. The writer, Rod Collins, is an ABYC Certified Marine Electrical Systems Specialist (whew) of long experience, and the whole site is full of solid, authoritative information.
Larry,
Bus bars on 120 V absolutely.
However, do you do that with 12v also? That is where I see the multiple wires. It means making a hole in the ceilings / walls (at lights/fans etc.) to contain the box with the bus bar and create enough room in the opening to secure that box solidly to the structure (e.g. stud or plywood). Then cover the space back up (including access to that box).
Andy, that would work with the spots with multiple wires, adding a heat shrink sheath on top. Thanks.
Jane
I should add a ps, that I need to join a group that gives me access to the ABYC codes, that information would give clear guidelines.
The one site I found didn't have anything like an associates membership, their least costly one was for professionals who worked on boats.
Jane
You can get an ABYC wiring codes guide through any West Marine or thru Ancor Marine via their websites. A hard copy guide can be purchased through either outlet.
"Andy, you said you redid your wiring. I know you redid your power center, did you redo wiring throughout? Ripping up walls or fishing wires? Only 120V or 12v also?"
I've redone wiring on three rigs to date: my 2003 Lazy Daze midbath, my 2017 Airstream 27FB, and my 2014 13' Trillium.
In the LD, I replaced as much of the 120 VAC and 12 VDC wiring as I could get to, but that was probably only about 20%. That included replacing the Romex-type wiring that fed the air conditioner and the microwave. I also replaced the Parallax power center with separate Blue Sea breaker panels for AC and DC circuits. The AC panel was mounted under the counter extension by the sink, and the DC panel was mounted in the lower part of the cabinet between the sink and stove. Having experienced several failures of the power center's automatic transfer switch (ATS), I replaced that with physically locked-out breakers--the top two pairs seen on the AC panel n the photo. A sliding guard prevents activating both at once. Yes, it's no longer automatic--but it's completely reliable.
I also upgraded the batteries (four 125 Ah GPL-31XT Lifeline AGMs) and charger (proSINE 2.0 2,000 W inverter/100 A charger) and added 600 W of solar panels (sacrificing both TV antennas) and Victron solar controller, etc.
I did much the same to the Airstream, but used a pair of Victron 160 Ah LiFePO4 batteries instead of AGMs. I didn't replace much actual wiring, but did the same kind of job of replacing the power center as I'd done on the LD. 600 W of solar on the roof, etc., etc.
In the much smaller Trillium, I installed a Blue Sea panel for AC breakers, but used Blue Sea fuse blocks for the DC wiring. I replaced almost all of the AC and DC wiring, as well completely replacing the propane and water plumbing. (Both water and propane setups were already pretty basic, and I minimized them still further by eliminating the furnace, water heater and water pump. I installed a Wave 3 catalytic heater, and a Whale foot pump for water to the sink.)
The Trillium sports a 160 Ah Victron LiFePO4 battery, Victron solar controller, etc., and a 140 W solar panel that one of these days I'll get around to mounting on the roof, but right now is lying on the ground.
I sincerely hope I never have to do this kind of renovation again. ;-)
Here's a link directly to the ABYC for the guide.
https://abycinc.org/store/default.aspx
"Bus bars on 120 V absolutely. However, do you do that with 12v also?"
Don't know about Larry, but I sure do. My 2003 LD came with a scary blob of a dozen or so assorted-size wires all tied together--they were grounds--which I replaced with a Blue Sea covered busbar. I also use busbars for positive 12 V connections, where appropriate.
Another possibility for multiple-wire connections, if you don't have more than three or four, is a Blue Sea PowerPost (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=blue+sea+powerpost&i=tools&ref=nb_sb_noss).
Additionally joining 2-3 wires from different accessories together to get to + or - points is not a good idea as each component needs it's own fused protection and isolation from each and every circuit.
Generally speaking, the fuses/breakers are there to protect the wiring, not the components connected to the wire. Some components, like air conditioners, will have a dedicated breaker, but some breakers will have multiple devices connected to them. Those will have their own fuses if protection is required, because the fuse/breaker at the power source will be too large and too slow to protect it.
Wiley my hats off to you. I built my own house with trees I logged off my land and lumber manufactured in my own sawmill but I would never take on the project you have! It will be interesting to watch your progress and I hope for lots of pics.
We have someone in here that rebuilt their whole rear end due to rot which was fun and informative to follow. Your project will be worthy of a book or blog anyway.
"the fuses/breakers are there to protect the wiring, not the components connected to the wire."
Right. Here's how I learned to think of it. Imagine a simple circuit consisting of a car battery and a light bulb, connected by a few feet of wire.
Suppose you put a fuse near the light bulb. What happens if there's a short in the connecting wires? The wire between the short and the battery will heat up and catch fire. The fuse will do nothing.
Now suppose you put a fuse next to the battery. What happens if there's a short in the connecting wires? The fuse will blow, protecting the wires. As Eric said, that's what fuses/breakers are for: to protect the wiring.
It follows that in general, fuses or breakers should be placed as close as possible to the power source.
Larry,
Bus bars on 120 V absolutely.
However, do you do that with 12v also?
Definitely, most boats have 12-volt systems.
Larry
I had plenty of experience soldering in non-RV/non-boating situations, so I was initially inclined to go that route. But ABYC recommends against soldering connections on boats, and their reasoning applies equally to RVs or any mobile application. The reason is that solder stiffens the end of the wire, and that can lead to metal fatigue and breakage when there's vibration and flexing. They recommend crimped connections.
For large wire gauges, you will need a bigger crimper. There are three ways to go. In order of increasing cost, they are hammer crimpers, hydraulic crimpers, and long-handled compound crimpers. Hammer crimpers don't do the best job, but they're cheap--twenty bucks or so.
I don't have experience with hydraulic crimpers. I've read that there are some bad ones out there--bad meaning the dies are the wrong sizes--but that's all I know.
Because I have had to work with cables up to 4/0 in the past, I use an FTZ 94284 "Correct Crimp" compound crimper (https://www.amazon.com/FTZ-Correct-Crimp-Heavy-Duty/dp/B01CRZ465K). It has handles about 18" long--believe me, for large wire gauges you need all the leverage you can get! It handles wire gauges from AWG 6 up to 4/0. It sells for about $150, and believe it or not, that is about the least expensive compound crimper you can find for these large wire gauges. $300 and up is more typical.
You will never find soldered connections on aircraft, off-road equipment and any other equipment subjection to vibrations.
Well done crimped connections work well as long as they are secured to prevent movement.
I used a hammer crimper for years at work, primarily for field repairs. The connections do not last as long as a compound crimper. I tried hand hydraulic crimpers and was disappointed in the results, now I use a pro-grade, FTZ 94285 crimper, along with a large cable cutter that cuts 4-0 cable cleanly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/5620/21453059523_ee3c6fcbf1_w.jpg)
Larry
I was lucky enough when I was making 4/0 battery cables, to be able to take parts to work and use a table mounted hydraulic crimper (electrically powered). Really miss that machine! RonB
Ok, maybe we are hitting the issues in an older RV vs newer RV.
As I said, I was surprised there is no gangboxes (none, nada, zip) in our 89 TK, and that includes 120V for outlets. There might be an exception in the refrigerator one, I would have to double check this to confirm.
While I don't think LD did any splices (with wirenuts) in the walls, I have not torn off all the walls to confirm. They did (where I have checked) to proper attaching to the structure at the regular intervals.
In our LD, there is a TV area in the back of the lounge with 120 V wiring exposed in the cabinet - again no gang boxes so live wires in that cabinet that could have come lose/in contact with whatever was stored in that cabinet, but that could have been installed after purchase - it didn't look like the typical LD work style in the rest of the RV.
Ron alluded to this - if I read between the lines correctly, but if someone can confirm...
Do the newer LDs have gangboxes? For 120V? For 12V (e.g. lights, fans, etc where the fixture does not have a gangbox included)? I have to say when we shopped for new lights (to move to LED and change the look from the very old lights), there are few RV light fixtures (if any) that have a proper gangbox built into the light (e.g. that would withstand a loose wire touching whatever is close by).
It is a lot of work to place a new gangbox for all the 12V spots where there is just a few wires like lights, it would mean make a hole in the ceiling large enough for a shallow box, and create an appropriate cover. It is easier when it is inside the cabinets and one of our ceiling light wires actually came thru a stud just to throw another wrench in the works.
Using butt splices and fusion tape is easier and a big improvement above the wirenuts, which I was surprised to find were in very good condition after 30 years and 100,000+ miles (though I don't know how much was smooth roads vs rough off road bouncing).
Again, this may all be old RV vs new RV issues.
Jane
Ok - I take some of that back.
I checked and our refrigerator outlet (inside the outside refrigerator bin) does have a gangbox. I took the cover off the 120v outlets (in wall) by the entry door and it had a gangbox. I didn’t check the one by the sink (bottom of a cabinet).
The only other one, in the rear lounge cabinet does not have a gangboxes. It is inside that open area between the bottom shelf and the bottom of the cabinet (chase area) that is the only one 120V I had touched previously. There was some additional 120V that was in the cabinet - not in a gangbox, for a TV I think, again that might be after purchase and not done by Lazydaze.
None of the 12v has been in a gangbox (I have worked on the switch inside the door, I think all the lights, and one of the fans. They are either in chases, or Just resting inside the light fixture (no gangbox in the fixtures).
Jane
As I said, I was surprised there is no gangboxes (none, nada, zip) in our 89 TK, and that includes 120V for outlets. There might be an exception in the refrigerator one, I would have to double check this to confirm.
Jane
A side note. In the 80's in my great Aunts new single wide mobile in a senior park in RI the outlets and switches didn't have a box. They were special made in a manner where boxes weren't needed. Of course, no wire nuts used either.
US Hardware Mobile Home/RV Duplex Receptacle 1 9/16" x 4 1/4" - Electrical... (https://www.amazon.com/Hardware-Mobile-Home-Duplex-Receptacle/dp/B000BPEPRS)
Here's something I should have mentioned earlier when talking about heavy-gauge cables: if you just need a few, and you don't want to buy the Power Lugs and FTZ crimper needed to do a good job--not to mention heavy cable in what are usually 25-foot minimum lengths--you can have cables custom-made for you by GenuinedealZ (https://www.genuinedealz.com/collections/custom-cables). Despite the bargain-basement sounding name, this is a respectable marine electrical supplies seller.
Their website has an ordering page that makes it easy to specify exactly what you want--gauge, color, lug style, etc. Once when I was traveling and didn't have my big FTZ crimper with me, I used this GenuinedealZ service to make the cables I needed, and the quality was fine--tinned marine grade wire and heavy lugs, properly crimped and sealed with dual-layer heat shrink tubing. And the prices, as I recall, were reasonable.
So if the cost of tools and supplies is deterring you from making heavy cables for battery connections and the like, GenuinedealZ is a viable alternative.
P.S.--They also sell marine-rated cable by the foot.
Here is my our new project and intro to the Lazy Daze lifestyle. My girlfriend and I have been looking for a vintage rv under 22 feet to do some traveling in around the state and to see our kids in the surrounding states. I've always like the lazy daze line and after see many other brands of this era, we decided on this one. Its a '73 year model. Very dirty from sitting for the past year next to a farm field but overall in good condition. Low miles and little wear. I will post more pics upon getting it home this weekend.
I hope you're not a renovation/carpentry newbie, though. This is an awesome, but advanced project I suspect.
I look forward to your before and after photos, too! Thank you for sharing.
Kat