And then there was a LEAK!
So we took the LD out for the weekend and it poured on Saturday morning. Within a few hours of heavy rain there was water dripping from the ceiling seam directly behind the cab. If I pushed on the seam it would ooze out all along the seam. I took a butter knife and pushed it a little bit into the seam to channel the water out - placed an empty open cooler underneath to contain the drips.
I looked and felt all the interior of the front cab-over entertainment system and upper side cupboards and didnt see any other wet / damp areas.
My primary question is - where do I start to identify the source of the leak? What are my first steps for resolution?
And, did I cause this? Recently - i replaced the cracked brittle round orange running lights on the front of the cabover, installed or reinstalled stick on 3m gutter, "tested" (cranked up) the tv antenna for the first time since our purchase in April, removed the maxxair vent cover to clean inside and replaced it after cleaning (I didnt think I distrubed any of the sealer as it was basically sitting / secured on top of the seal line).
Also, this is the first time the rig has been truly level in a heavy rain so there was a bit of pooling on the roof when I went up to inspect. So perhaps there was a potential leak the whole time and it didnt show itself.
The roof was entirely resealed at the mothership in 2015. The camper is back in storage and I dont have the paperwork home with me - but I think I remember a note on the LD receipt that said the owner requested the tv antenna not be resealed. (not sure why this would have been the case).
Also of note - a few hours after the leak was detected I noticed the #9 fuse was popped for the "tv, water heater, monitor panel" - not sure if the leak caused a short that made this pop. I do know the fuse was good earlier in the day because the TV worked. Curious if anyone can tell me what "monitor panel" this refers to - the fresh, grey, black lpg monitor above the stove?
I attached some pictures of the current condition of the eternabond and sealant (I assume its dicor).
Please and thank you as always!! Looking for suggestions for where to start / what to do. The camper is in indoor storage right now so not an emergency situation.
I did take a look at many of the other threads and the companion - just not sure of first step(s) - goop on more dicor at most likely intrusion points, scrape and start over, do a whole roof reseal - ugh...
Thanks all!!
Jodi
The best way to know where a leak is coming from is to use a thermal camera, if you are willing to buy one or can borrow one.
Several forum users, including myself, use a Flir camera which attaches to your iphone/android and saves you money using your phone screen. The regular one, not the pro, is good enough.
They are a little funny to read - giving you relative heat/cold (recently it showed hot for me but there was nothing hot to the touch at that spot), so play with it a little. You need to much with them some to learn how to interpret what you are seeing (e.g. a seam like where you are leaking often shows cooler because the air is cooler there, not necessarily because there is a water leak there). But it can show you the path of water so you can see where it comes from - yes, you need an active leak for this (you could put water up on your roof to emulate a heavy rain).
Second best, check all the possible places water could come in. Anyplace water can get under or thru sealant is a good place to reseals. I have heard where people put dicor on the edge of the eternabond especially at the short end, to make sure that is sealed tight. I would definitely redo the sealant around your antenna - there are a lot of cracks and you only need one to let water inside.
The area around your vent is difficult to tell of the "cracks" we see are letting water in or just where one layer met another layer but with a good seal.
Water travels - it comes in a spot and then follows the internal structure (following gravity going in the path of least resistance) finding places big enough to let a trickle of water go thru, until it either finds a crack to fall inside the LD (or sticks and bricks structure) or it pools up inside the ceiling/walls not dripping into the LD (or sticks and bricks structure). I have seen it travel 10s of feet in a house before it comes out someplace visible. And if you are seeing water come out during a heavy rain, it is very likely that with a lighter rain water is getting into the LD (ceiling in your case) but there is not enough water for it to accumulate at that seam to be dripping.
With an entertainment center, I don't know if you can get to the inside of the LD everywhere over the cab or if there is places you can't get to. If you have TV wiring in that entertainment center, it is very possible that wiring did get wet. Again a concern as there could be a leak up in that area you can't check that happens with lighter rains, but it only gets to where you can see it with a very heavy rain. In using my flir, I can't always see thru the cabinets, but it would get you the the edge of the cabinet where the leak was coming in, and you can use it inside the cabinet to see clearer also.
In your pictures, it looks like a crack beside the eternabond (going to the outside edge of the LD) in each picture (driver/passenger). Any crack will let water come in so I would seal those.
If you can't :
1) use a thermal camera or
2) can't find anything obvious outside and simulate a heavy rainfall to confirm you found the correct spot,
Then you are left with taking off some ceiling where you see the leak and expanding that area in the direction where you find signs of water damage (this can be just discolored but still solid wood - it is not necessarily rotted wood) until you see where it is coming in. It can be less destructive and more direct if you have a good idea where the actual leak is.
Jane
If it were mine: I'd plan to carefully remove a portion of the ceiling in the area where the leak showed up for 2 reasons. (1) You need to dry out the wood and insulation and whatever else is in there. (2) Since you have to remove a section to dry things out, it will also help you find the leak.
I wouldn't wait for the drying out part. Bring some fans and dehumidifier if you have one. Water can run some distance from the original entry point to where the leak shows up inside the coach.
Rich
Hi Jodi,
I am sorry you have this problem. While I don't have any answers for you about finding the leak, I am fairly certain your roof WAS NOT RESEALED at the Lazy Daze factory! The reason I feel safe staying this is they absolutely abhor Eternabond!! My understanding is they won't touch a roof that was resealed with Eternabond. If it was resealed at the LD factory, it looks as though someone used Eternabond after the factory reseal (maybe the owner was trying to fix the leak?)
Your photo of the front corner seam on the passenger side is confusing to me. It looks like some bare wood along the side? Is there bare wood showing? And your antenna area looks suspect to me.
It would make sense that the popped "fuse #9" is for the TV and the monitor that is in the stove hood.
Good luck,
Steve K
Jodi, you've receives some good troubleshooting suggestions, and I agree with Steve K's comments re: a factory seal job. The factory would not use Eternabond, and even if they did, they would not use several overlapping strips, leave seams apparently unsealed (what looks like bare wood?), or not seal around vents and antennas.
Leaks can be very difficult and frustrating to trace; I hope you're able to locate the source(s) with a lot of diligent scrutiny on all possible entry points and repair them successfully. One specific area that I'd suggest checking carefully is the seam between the fiberglass front cap and the aluminum roof sheeting; this seam was very poorly sealed on my 2003. Fortunately, I noticed the bubbling in the line of sealant very shortly after taking delivery; peeled out the sealant to find dirt, water, and "algae" in the seam! (This mess had not penetrated into the rig, fortunately, but only because I caught it early.) I stripped out all the goop, cleaned and dried the seam, filled it with polyurethane (what was used at the time; now, I'd use 5200 FC), and Eternabonded over the seam.
Good luck.
"Several forum users, including myself, use a Flir camera which attaches to your iphone/android and saves you money using your phone screen. The regular one, not the pro, is good enough."
A thermal camera can be very hand for diagnosing leaks (as well as for finding places where heat is leaking in or out of your rig or house due to drafts or poor insulation). The one most folks use, because as Jane said, it's affordable and "good enough," is the FLIR One (https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-One-Thermal-Imager-For/dp/B0728C7KND/ref=sr_1_4).
I've attached a couple examples of how it works. The thermal image shows the path of the leaking water, which is cooler than the dry ceiling. The second photo shows what it looked like after I took down the ceiling paneling in that area: soaked insulation. The leak was coming from the overcab corner next to the fridge, and when I went up on the roof I could see that it was originating at the (former) FM antenna mount, whose sealant had badly deteriorated over the years.
Looking at your pictures, that TV antenna looks pretty suspect to me. I would assume the wood looking stuff is your plastic gutter. 3M 5200 fast cure is the ticket for those two seams. While your at it, look at the windows and everything else.
Jon
Thanks for the conversations about this issue. I am so disappointed and overwhelmed at the thought of another big project.
I am not sure why the picture looks like exposed wood. Thankfully it is definitely not :) The orangish area to the right is the old weathered gutter. And to the left of that I think might be some weird shadow or reflection. However in that same picture there is a seam that I was thinking should be sealed with 5200 ( I was thinking of doing that seam when we did the windows last month but it didnt look like it had ever been sealed so I thought that was they way it was supposed to be.
I will see what I can do about getting my hands on a thermal image camera. Thanks for the link!!
Joan - the seam between the fiberglass endcap and aluminum roof I assume is at the very front edge where the flat part of the roof starts to dip right in front of the winegard. I attached a picture for clarification.
Sealing around tv antenna - should I scrape off all of the old sealer and start over. Should I use dicor?
Trying to figure out what these other antenna are for and if I even need them. I have a radio and a CB radio inside the cab but there appears to be an "extra" antenna.
I did just order a new shower dome cover that is on its way from the mothership so I should be able to replace and seal it down with these project materials.
I dont have my file folder with me - its in the camper 2 hours away - but if I remember the receipts correctly - I think all the vents / max airs were replaced and resealed in 2015 with the roof re-seal.
Possibly could get this project started this weekend if I have supplies - suggestions on what I should get from Amazon would be great!
Thanks!!
Maybe the other owner who had the work done decided to put the eternabond over the seam seals as precaution or because he new of a problem. hmmmm...
"My understanding is they won't touch a roof that was resealed with Eternabond."
I heartily agree with Steve K concerning LDs aversion to working on an Eternabond sealed roof. I was told flat out that they would NOT touch mine. They did agree to reseal all other areas where the original factory sealing had been previously used.
Glad to see that you are using the 3M rain gutters... rest assured they have nothing to do with your current problem (The LEAK). :(
Looking at your pictures, that TV antenna looks pretty suspect to me. I would assume the wood looking stuff is your plastic gutter. 3M 5200 fast cure is the ticket for those two seams. While your at it, look at the windows and everything else.
Jon
I agree TV antenna looks like it needs reseal leaking now or not. Perhaps the entire roof needs new caulking before any more leaks develop. That is what I did to my SOB RV last winter after repairing a roof leak. Rich’s idea of assessing Buried water damage might be the best place to start
Trying to figure out what these other antenna are for and if I even need them. I have a radio and a CB radio inside the cab but there appears to be an "extra" antenna.
The “extra” antenna looks like a Wilson 12” 3G & 4G Antenna (https://www.wilsonamplifiers.com/12-inch-magnet-mount-antenna-12ft-sma-male-311125/). Funny thing is, from the shape of the base that’s under the sealant, it looks like the magnetic base version. Did the LD come with a cellular signal booster or can you see where there once was a booster installed? If that is truly what it is, I can’t imagine it would work very well. That type of antenna needs a ground plain and gluing down a magnetic base on an aluminum roof is not going to work very well. If you must use a magnetic base cellular antenna, then use some adhesive to glue down a 8” x 8” or larger galvanized steel plate to the roof and place the magnetic base on that.
Good luck on resolving your leak.
- John
"That type of antenna needs a ground plain and gluing down a magnetic base on an aluminum roof is not going to work very well."
Why would that not work? The aluminum roof is a huge ground plane, and my understanding has always been that electrical contact is not needed between antenna and ground plane--that's why so many magnet-mount antennas have rubber or plastic base gaskets to prevent marring painted vehicle surfaces. So as long as the antenna base is only a fraction of an inch separated from the aluminum roof, all should be well. Am I mistaken?
Hi Andy; The ground plane doesn't have to be electrically connected. It is capacitively connected. And you can just glue the magnet base onto the roof. Now if you ever wanted to swap out the antenna, then glue on the aforementioned steel plate, and the magnet will keep it in place. Taller antennas can be knocked over by branches, etc. RonB
I’m not trying to hijack this thread but I would like to explain my previous statements. Yes, the LD’s aluminum roof makes for a good ground plane, but all that is needed is a 1/4 wavelength radius at the antennas lowest frequency. At 700 MHz, that’s about 4.2 inches or a 8.4 inch steel plate. A larger plane doesn’t hurt but it doesn’t add much either. Magnetic mounts are capacitively coupled to the ground plane but they are not as efficient as mounts that are electrically connected. This is probably my bias being exposed here and others may have a different view, but it is backed by real world measurement. The possible application of an adhesive of unknown thickness under the mount just adds to the inefficiencies. If you can’t tell, I’m not a big fan of magnetic mounts. So good or bad, that is my reasoning... and now back to our regular scheduled programming.
- John
Maybe the other owner who had the work done decided to put the eternabond over the seam seals as precaution or because he new of a problem. hmmmm...
Or perhaps the previous owner was not exactly forthright with you? Definitely not a factory reseal, I’m afraid.
Thanks for the explanations, Ron and John.
Jodi,
I'm skeptical that your roof was resealed at the factory. We had ours done there in May, 2016 and they used a method that I suspect was in use in 2015, the same method they were then using on new motorhomes.
The new method involves a different sealant, applied cold and mounded up so as to create a ridge around the edge of the roof. The older method involved a sealant applied hot that flowed onto the roof and thus was fairly flat. I don't see any evidence of the new "mounded" sealant under your Eternabond. In fact it looks very much like the old flat sealant under the Eternabond.
If we assume that the seller was at least trying to be honest with you and something was resealed at the factory I would say that the owner himself or someone similar applied the Eternabond and then had the factory reseal the vents and other items that penetrate the roof.
The reason I think this is important is that if your only reseal is with Eternabond over the old original hot sealant then you are potentially dealing with one of the concerns the factory has about Eternabond, which is that if it is not applied carefully water can get under it and flow to a point where it might enter the coach, a situation made more likely if there is old sealant under the Eternabond that might have failed here and there.
On the other hand, there is ample evidence on this site that Eternabond works well when applied well, even over old sealant.
You might want to check with the factory to see if they have any record of your roof being resealed there, perhaps before the change to the new method or with only a partial job. Or you could retrieve the reseal records from your coach, scan them and post them here to see what folks think. In my experience though, LD records are often a bit cryptic.
Given the location of your leak it seems to me that its source is toward the front of the coach. If the coach is level and given that most LD roofs slope toward their center it is likely that the leak is flowing from somewhere forward or to the side of where the water appeared. From your photos this would seem to mean the Eternabond sealed areas at the front or front sides of the roof or from the satellite dish or the other antennas.
My suggestion would be to first try to find someone locally who is experienced with Eternabond and have them check its installation on your coach. If that person thinks it is OK then I'd move on to the antennas. As to those you should determine what they're for and if you don't use them you might want to remove them and then reseal any holes that are left. I'd consult with LD about how best to do that.
The antenna to the far left (driver's side) is likely either for the AM-FM radio or for a CB radio if you have one. The other two antennas that seem to be connected may be for some sort of cell phone booster. We don't use one of those so I'm not familiar with their merits but my experience is that cell phone reception is much improved with modern phones and towers and that boosters aren't necessarily needed these days, especially in areas like the east with dense cell phone coverage.
But if I had to take a guess my suspicions would fall on your satellite dish. I doubt that was installed by Lazy Daze and given who does market and sell that kind of stuff it was likely installed by someone who knew nothing about LD motorhomes or much cared about the result. It also looks heavy to me. That seam between the fiberglass nose cone and the aluminum roof is a known weak point in some LD construction. If LD was mounting a satellite dish there LD would have installed some sort of reinforcement under the roof to anchor the satellite dish to. I doubt that exists in your motorhome. And if the dish is not securely mounted then it is going to "work" against its mountings as it goes down the road, endures the wind both up or down and is raised and lowered, eventually weakening its mounting and thus perhaps creating leaks.
I would send photos of your dish installation to LD to see what they make of it and if they have any recommendations. I know these sorts of dishes that get you all possible channels and find the satellites automatically and all that can be very seductive. But my experience is that television has become less and less important to us the longer we've been RVing, to the point where we rarely take our satellite receiver with us anymore. If I was buying a coach today I'd probably skip satellite TV. That doesn't mean you should. But I would say that avoiding leaks should be more important that watching TV. So LD might recommend a simpler, lighter solution for satellite reception, maybe even one of the portable "Tailgater" units available today, that don't mount on the motorhome and thus don't penetrate the roof.
It's also possible that this leak has nothing to do with sealing or sealant. Our one leak in our LD, early on, was from a problem internal to our over the air batwing TV antenna. A new part for that, not any resealing, was the solution. That satellite dish looks somewhat complex. Might it have some leak in its mechanisms or wiring?
After evaluating the various antennas and deciding which to keep you could then progress to determining whether they are the source of your leak and what to do about that. But if you decide you're going to get rid of one or more of them why not do that first, deal with sealing the resulting holes in the roof in a manner recommended by LD and then see where you stand with your leak?
Thanks again for all the ideas and suggestions.
I would LOVE to see what the ideal sealant situation looks like - mounded or flat.
I will definitely send a scan of the LD sealing receipt when I get to the RV. It's hand written on a tear out invoice and there's an associated detail list on a sheet of loose leaf paper.
I will check out the antennas. I am thinking they may be outdated and not much use to me. We don't have cable at home and download/ stream and tv shows. Internet will be more priority then tv. :)
Hi Jodi,
You've been getting some good ideas and advice. I wanted to offer a couple of observations and offer up what I would do if I were dealing with this.
First off, based on the photos you have posted, your rig looked well maintained. Whoever applied the Eternabond looks to have done a thorough job. And based on the ceiling photo where there is a drip, it doesn't look like there is any evidence of previous water damage/mildew/mold. We can't tell if there are any soft spots which would reveal a long term leak.
I think Terry made some great observations about the antennas and satellite dish.
What I would do is see if there are any indications the satellite dish mount has loosened. Same with the air conditioner. There have been posts about the air conditioner needing snugged down. I would definitely cover that tv antenna mount with fresh Dicor self leveling sealant. Then I would get that rig level at home, use a hose and see if the leak is still there. (There have been a few times I had water drip in our rig that was coming in around the escape hatch and all I needed to do was replace the weather stripping. I would not start ripping out that ceiling unless I KNEW I needed to do that.
I think it would be interesting to see if the leak is still there IF the rig is NOT level. The drips I had through the escape hatch only occurred when I was perfectly level.
Also, were you using the air conditioning while camped in that rainstorm? Maybe the drain is blocked and the water was from the AC.
Good luck with this. That rig looks too nice for it to be a neglected money pit.
Steve K
Our one leak in our LD, early on, was from a problem internal to our over the air batwing TV antenna. A new part for that, not any resealing, was the solution.
Terry - can you elaborate on this batwing TV antenna problem. What was the replacement part. I have a feeling this antenna is the culprit and its suspect the leak was detected after moving it for the first time. This was potentially the first time it had been moved in quite some time. The owner previous to me traveled minimally and mainly used the LD in his driveway as he was remodeling his house. I think that he probably had a cable line to the driveway and didnt use the antenna.
Another question -- how many of you use and pay for a satellite TV service that would require a subscription such as the Windgard. I don't think I will ever use it myself and just wondering if down the road it would effect resale if I pull it off the roof. I also think the technology would be obsolete by then anyhow...
Re: air conditioner - I actually have never used the air conditioner except to turn on the fan once to see if it worked. When I turned it on it blew a bit of black dust out. yuk! and I havent had time to tackle cleaning the filters etc. I was actually thinking of replacing it since its looks to be original. The AC shroud on the roof looks newer but the part I can see on the coach ceiling is yellowing and appears dated. I havent investigated an RV repair place near me that I would trust to work on it yet. Any suggestions in WI for a repair shop would be appreciated. Also - if I do go the route of a new air conditioner - suggestions as to a good replacement?
The rig was inspected by two separate places before I agreed to buy it. I know the history (as much as one can) and all the owners (3 before me) seem to have cared for it well. The person that had it the majority of its life was a forum member and is known to a few of the folks on here. I guess he graduated into a big class A. The guy who had it most recently seemed to take good care of it as far as maintenance is concerned but didnt put a lot of miles or money into it. Fingers crossed its not a money pit and I am staying optimistic that this is a fixable issue :D
Jodi,
As I think more about my old antenna leak to attempt to answer your question I think our leak was more likely from our Winegard satellite dish, which is not like the satellite dish on your LD, and not from our batwing over the air antenna. We have a much simpler manual dish that just receives one satellite at a time. Water was essentially dripping from the handle on the interior of the motorhome that we use to raise the dish. My recollection is that I was able to get some information about that type of leak off the internet as it wasn't an uncommon problem. The solution was to replace a part in the dish handle or raising mechanism. But that was a long time ago and I actually remember little about it.
Some Googling now does show that Winegard calls for some routine maintenance of its antenna mechanisms (something I've never done). If you don't have the manuals for your antennas you might call Winegard to see about getting some. You can also find some videos and instructions online by Googling something to the effect of "Winegard Sensor batwing antenna leak and maintenance." Or change "Sensor batwing" to "Traveller satellite dish" for your gray antenna on the front of the motorhome.
I think we had a different problem than you have because our leak was from the dish antenna handle and yours is from the ceiling. So before you get involved in disassembling and reassembling the antenna you might want to run some water over the antenna to see if that causes your leak to reappear.
Sorry I can't be of more help. As I said, this was a long time ago.
Working on the roof today.
I was not able to recreate the leak by dumping a few gallons of water on the roof. The Flir camera images looked the same before and after the watering of the roof.
To start somewhere - I scraped the sealant off the batwing antenna. I am assuming its dicor - its pliable and gummy. I wasnt able to get it all off but did get most of it off. Planning to clean it with paint thinner or acetone and then re-apply the dicor tomorrow.
Observations - a few of the screws that were covered by the sealant were rusty when I exposed them by peeling off the goo. Before peeling the goo off I dried the water I had dumped on the roof - after peeling it off there seemed to be water (very clean water) oozing slightly from under the antenna pad that is on the roof. Also, the plastic coated wire that looks like it goes into the roof from the antenna has a pliable rubber collar that isn't super tight to the wire.
One question I thought of is - Is there a gasket under the round part of the antenna (the part that rotates slightly) and over the pad that sits on the roof? If so, does that gasket get brittle and leak? How my holes are in the roof under this? I am assuming - 1 for each screw and 1 for the wire?
I did pull my receipt from the factory and y'all are right - apparently the seams were not sealed by LD. The receipt is attached for interpretation. Now I am wondering when they were done and if I should do them again or take a wider Eternabond and go over the existing seam?
Thanks as always!!
Jodi
Water inside the after you took off the sealant suspicious. Long rains show leaks more - a couple gallons was enough to get inside but not enough to travel to the ceiling and leak inside.
It could be the water came in the wire and then around/under the plate. The sealant might not have been water right against the wire.
Can you tell what direction the water came from (eg Water on X side of the antenna but wasn’t on the opposite side).
Or water might have come from a seam uphill of the antenna. A digital level like this one https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-10-in-Multi-Function-Standard-Digital-Level-THD9403/205999357 is great to show even slight slopes.
Jane
Bear in mind, there is a literal lake that forms on the roof towards the front of the coach during rains and that antenna could be right in the middle of it. Our old Tioga had an antenna that leaked, I took it off and patched the roof. Our current one could be in for the same fate at the first sign of troubles.
Jon
Raised the winegard satellite receiver to clean and reseal. Discovered the joint with 4 bolts had been in contact with the roof and worn a hole thru to bare wood.
Would like to uninstall the whole dish. Is this overreacting? It was installed by camping world so the entire install ( as was mentioned by another member on this thread ) is probably suspect. Ugh.
So uninstall and patch the roof. Is this overreacting? I won't ever use satellite tv.
Here's some pictures.
I won't ever use satellite tv.
That being said, I would remove it. No need having it up there if it isn't going to be used.
Consider if the sattalite would add value and how long you plan to use the LD. You could store it if it has value but you don’t want to use it. Any wire connectors remove in a ways that someone else could reattach to it - with the saved sattalite or a more modern replacement.
When you repair the roof I suggest using J-B-Weld for aluminum (https://www.homedepot.com/p/J-B-Weld-8-oz-ClearWeld-Pro-50240H/310832218), Scott works in aviation and that is what they use. Use it like wood putty and do layers if the spot you are patching is deep (label talks about depths).
Jane
As Colin Fletcher said in The Complete Walker (https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Walker-IV-Colin-Fletcher/dp/0375703233), mind the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves. Arguments for removal: 1) it is damaging the rig, 2) you do not/will not use it, 3) it is extra weight as high above the center of gravity as possible, 4) it makes a lousy dog toy. Arguments for retention . . . . uh, can I get back to you on that?
Weight is always a consideration with my 31' and project it is on the mind of everyone with a 30 or 31'. Think of an equivalent weight of Lincoln treats/toys that an unused antenna offsets?
Just one dog person's opinion, take if for what it's worth. ;)
joel
Hi Jodi; At least you found your leak! The weight penalty, non aerodynamic placement, and likelyhood of being obsolete; it sure looks to me like a candidate for removal. A large piece of thick aluminum to cover all of the damage, including its footprint, and wiring entry. RonB
As Colin Fletcher said in The Complete Walker (https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Walker-IV-Colin-Fletcher/dp/0375703233), mind the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves.
Not sure I've ever found anyone else in the past several decades who read this - my bible when I started backpacking!
Steve
"Colin Fletcher"
Now there's a name I haven't seen in years!
LazyBones2 has been trying to divest ourselves of three lightly used rigid frame Kelty backpacks that have been hanging in the garage for quite some time. Old technology, yes, but they've still got a few miles on them. :) ;)
Jodi,
I'd remove it. Don't store it. Sell it if you can or junk it, unless you like having junk lying around. It will be subject to obsolescence at some point, probably before you sell you LD. If you or someone else wants satellite TV down the road buy one of the portable units like the Tailgater.
I'm glad you found your leak but am sorry that your rig was damaged by incompetent installation of the dish.
Once you have everything removed I suggest you send some photos to LD to see if they have any advice about how best to remedy the damage.
Congrats on some good sleuthing and your willingness to tackle this job quickly.
Jodi,
Great news on you finding the leak! My vote would be for its removal! If I recall correctly, the LD factory places reinforcement up in the roof area when you order a factory installation of the satellite dish. If you attempt to add one later after taking delivery, you are placing added weight to an area on your roof that has not been reinforced. That added weight above the center of gravity is likely going to be rocking back and forth especially when deployed during wind storms, etc. Adding to your problem, your dish was placed by "the experts at CW" so it was preordained to fail at some point.
I know the previous owner added the satellite, but this should be an advisory to us all to be careful which additions we all choose to add to the factory product and whether or not reinforcement is needed. Hopefully you will not find any significant water damage to your rig and you will be back in business!
Best,
Gary
I'm with everyone else, she's gotta go. I patched our old one with a piece of aluminum, 3M 5200 FC and eternabond to really seal it up. Never leaked again. Remember, that is right in the middle of the lake so what ever you use has got to be good.
Jon
Not sure I've ever found anyone else in the past several decades who read this - my bible when I started backpacking!
Steve
I first heard of it from a guy that drilled holes in his toothbrush handle !
The Complete Walker looks like this, these days. :D
Drive Medical Nitro Euro Style Rollator Rolling Walker, Red - Walmart.com -... (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Drive-Medical-Nitro-Euro-Style-Rollator-Rolling-Walker-Red/687353000?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222222338378977&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=74835637109133&wl4=pla-4578435174598392:aud-808054962&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&%20wl10=Walmart&wl12=687353000_0&wl14=custom%20walker&veh=sem&msclkid=b03eaf61df2f12b32b5ff0586d1f7d05)
Definitely remove it, it’s obsolete.
The is a big hole under the dish that needs sealing. Most home centers sell pieces of sheet aluminum in squares that should fit. Look in the roofing section. Buy the thickest possible. Also buy a tube of polyurethane sealant, 3M 5200 FC is my favorite, along with a package of #8 X 1” stainless steel sheet metal screws.
After removing the dish, clean the surface well and lightly sand. Pre drill pilot holes in the aluminum square. Liberally apply the sealant around the holes and screw it down. Cover the screws and around the perimeter of the square with sealant.
Reseal the TV antenna while you are at it.
Glad you found the leak and it is an easy repair.
Larry
In the much cooler Sierras
Thank you all so so much for your advice and encouragement. I was getting so very frustrated and overwhelmed!! Then login to see all this positive posts that I'm headed in the right direction.
I took off the satellite and batwing. Or course they had to put the wire bracket for the satellite wires over the front seam eternabond so now that needs to be redone too. Smh!
Thinking about getting a portable for local channels if needed. If I'm patching this roof up I'm really just going to go for the big guns. I think I'll keep the cb and radio antenna. I like being able to listen to the truckers for entertainment and have gotten out of some sticky traffic situations by having the CB.
The repair is going to happen in a month or so as I'm on call for the next few weekends. That will give me time to get supplies referenced above together.
Thanks again!! I'm sure I'll be asking more questions as this project progresses!!
My dad is going to try to sell the satellite dish on fb marketplace or craigslist and the batwing is going in the trash.
Suggestions or advice on portable local channel antennas welcome. I attached a photo of a popular one from Amazon in addition to the post removal pictures.
Love you guys!! Helping me stay semi-sane!!
Hi Jodi; You got off pretty easy, after removing that old satellite antenna. As far as that King Omni antenna, It looks like it is ready to grab a branch at it's first opportunity!
I think the old bat-wing sensar is still one of the best at bringing in local stations. I upgraded mine, using the same mast and crank up mechanism, with a new King amplifier head. King Jack OA8300 White Replacement RV Antenna Head - Walmart.com - Walmart.com (https://www.walmart.com/ip/King-Jack-OA8300-White-Replacement-RV-Antenna-Head/833574719) I also got the electronic signal finder. The output jack from the new head points straight down, which is rough on the wire attached when the head is lowered. So I put in a right angle adaptor to lessen the strain. https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-106775-Female-Adapter-Plated/dp/B0069LY4KG/ref=pd_lpo_23_img_0/132-8281299-0629826?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0069LY4KG&pd_rd_r=4f570b21-2b8f-42c4-b527-224886acd187&pd_rd_w=m1LIp&pd_rd_wg=szuSr&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=AA3KY7JNC8XM8J2C142R&psc=1&refRID=AA3KY7JNC8XM8J2C142R
While I had it apart, I also upgraded to RG-6U cable and replaced the part out in the sunlight. It was in bad shape. RonB
Sorry about that. I wasn't very clear. Thinking about a portable ( not roof mounted ) antenna.
:)
The work stretch is over so now its time to get back to work on this roof.
Thanks again for all the suggestions thus far. I think Ive got a grip on what to do with the large access holes that were created in the aluminum roof. Looking for some other clarification....
See pic: The footprint of the satellite base surround has screw holes every few inches where the base was attached to the roof. There is no large hole to cover in this area. Do I need to cover this whole footprint with a sheet of aluminum or is there another solution? Wondering if I can fill the holes with 3m 5200 fast cure - then eternabond over that?
Also, the hole to top right of picture is where the cords from the satellite went into the overhead cab. I believe this hole is in the fiberglass. Whats the solution for patching this? Aluminum sheeting on this too?
Hi Jodi; After scraping all of that caulking off to bare aluminum, just around each screw hole, I would just fill each hole with some sealant and put in a slightly larger stainless steel screw. Then prep it and paint over it. Probably spray paint.
The hole in the fiberglass, first clean the edge of the hole with acetone. Careful, that stuff will damage the paint. Then I would pack it with fiberglass insulation until the hole was about 3/4" deep, then use Bondo (liquid polyester resin with glass fibers) to fill it. Have you worked with Bondo before? Hope you have. Some experience is good before a project like this.
Keep an eye on it for a year or so to make sure the Bondo plug doesn't work loose from temperature swings or flexing of the front nose cap. It is durable stuff. There are plenty of cars out there with patches that no one ever knows about.
Then time to repair what looks like Eternabond on the seam from roof to cap. RonB
I think I've got a grip on what to do with the large access holes that were created in the aluminum roof. Looking for some other clarification....
ith 3M 5200 fast cure - then Eternabond over that?
Also, the hole to top right of picture is where the cords from the satellite went into the overhead cab. I believe this hole is in the fiberglass. Whats the solution for patching this? Aluminum sheeting on this too?
For the small holes, I would fill them with 3M 5200-FC and then apply a square of Eternabond tape over each hole. The bigger holes could be patched this way but I would prefer to cover them with sheet aluminum patch, glued to the roof with 5200, and secured during curing with some short stainless steel sheet metal screws.
With the bigger holes, it wouldn't be hard to accidentally punch through Eternabond, causing another leak, a sheet aluminum patch would provide better protection
A big square of sheet aluminum could also be used to cover the whole area. Using 5200 and Eternabond tape will be the easiest fix. Either way, if done right, will be a permanent cure.
The hole near the front cap can be sealed the same way, with 5200 and Eternabond.
Larry
I'm with Larry on the small stuff, the big hole in the fiberglass I think I'd clean it up well ( careful with the Eternabond already installed ) seal it well with 5200 and then Eternabond over the top of the hole area . I wouldn't want to get tangled up with the front seam if I didn't have to. I ran a bead of 5200 on the leading edge of my Eternabond just to seal against the oncoming wind. On the other 4 holes, I'd go the plate of aluminum route with 5200 and eternabond over the top fill the holes with 5200 before you cover them.
Jon
Wow!! Getting all that dicor or whatever it was off and to clean bare aluminum was no joke. Took two of us two hours (4 labor hours) to do these couple small areas!
We weren't able to get the front part of the satellite base and access plate clean without compromising the eternabond. Decided to cut a line through the enternabond and clean it up the best we could. Next weekend is the patching and sealing up of all the holes - big and little. Here is a pic of our cleaned up front seam - hoping once patched I can put eternabond over this "gap" in the front seam and call it a day - thoughts? Worried I need to redo the whole front seam (right to left)- the gap is about 12" wide - wish I would've taken a better picture. The red box in the second pic is the amount of Eternabond we had to remove.
Would be great if I had unlimited time and access to to do this all at once instead of stops and starts.
Thankfully its in covered storage - would add another level of stress if we were still outside!!
You need to do a complete reseal in my opinion....one leak means they probably did not prep the surface well enough before applying the eternabond.
Start fresh, do alot of research...i did mine and worked on it for about 4 hours a day till i got it done....my old sealant was in great shape so i did not remove it( 04 mb was garage kept by origi al owners) but nowyou will need to remove the eternabond plus the old sealant....clean...clean and prep it properly tape off the areas using the blue painters tape.....now is the time to replace old fans ....covers, caps etc.
I watched a video on how to remove eternabond....heat it up and slowly pull it off....this is why no one wants to work on anything where eternabond was installed....labor intensive....$$$$$
Eternabond when applied properly is a good way to seal things....but if done wrong it ends of making the job 10 times worse....
Research how to do it....dont use any sealants that are permanent such as the marine sealant 5200...this is used to secure hardware on boats that are never ment to be removed...such as cleats..etc. if you have to replace a fan you will tear it apart trying to remove it.....
Call the mothership and ask what they recomended...i did and it worked great.
Research...research....take your time and do it right the first time...i posted some pictures on mine....and many others have to.
I have to disagree about 3M 5200 FastCure.
I have used it for four decades and, IMO, it is the best adhesive/sealant available and has an extremely long lifespan.
During the ten years I worked on LDs, it was what I used 90% of the time when I wanted a permanent repair, end caps for an example.
Do make sure the surface is properly prepared for best results.
Larry
Key word is permanent.....i would not want it around a maxxfan...fantastic....
Also if you have to replace one of the cap rails....and you secured it with 5200....that is going to be a difficult repair.
Marine 5200 has it uses.....
Key word is permanent.....i would not want it around a maxxfan...fantastic....
Also if you have to replace one of the cap rails....and you secured it with 5200....that is going to be a difficult repair.
Marine 5200 has it uses.....
3M 5200 works fine for fans and other roof penetrations, all of our LD’s vents have been sealed with it for over ten years, plus a lot of other LDs have had the same treatment without issues.
How much long-term experience do you have using 3M 5200?
I have been using it for almost 40 years for a wide range of applications on LDs and for other professional uses.
3M 5200 is my ‘go-to’ adhesive sealant when working on LDs, I have used other sealants and been disappointed in the long-term results.
Retired LD tech and professional industrial mechanic.
Larry