has any body had their foggy windows repaired? If so by who and where.
has anybody had their foggy windows repaired? i have been unable to find anyone to do the repairs.
Some have, and many have talked about it. Searching the archives should yield some good information.
Here's one thread: Rear WIndow Fog repair (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=30549.msg176045#msg176045)
Unfortunately, IMO there hasn't been anyone who has reported a great experience getting windows unfogged with their Lazy Daze and so there isn't a go-to recommendation.
There have been a few reports of less than great experiences, mostly because companies aren't prepared for the windows to be quite that hard to get out of the coach. I guess it's easier to pop them out with other RV manufacturers. The re-install typically doesn't recreate the what came from the factory either.
Sorry I can't offer a clearer (pun intended) solution.
Perhaps others have had good experiences and I'm not aware of them. I know many people would be interested to hear about it!
Rich
'03 MB in NC
has any body had their foggy windows repaired? If so by who and where.
What year/model LD do you own?
Chris
Hi Rich. I have removed windows from a different brand than my TK LD. My previous coach, a Skyline 'Lindy', once you removed the framework screws inside, you better have someone waiting to catch the window outside. They literally fall out!!. Mine had a dried up strip of that gray butylene goo holding the window in. I can say the same for my parents Tioga '78, and a friends 'Honey' that I helped catch windows for. A repairman expecting that, would find LDs to be incomprehensible. A previous review from somone who had their windows done, said they damaged the paint, aluminum sidewall, and charged extra because the windows were so difficult to remove. They also didn't reinstall them properly either. I can't find that review at the moment. Fortunately I don't have the air gap windows. RonB
RV Glass Experts has shops in Coburg, OR, and Phoenix, AZ:
Expert Nationwide RV Windshield and Window Replacement | RV Glass Solutions (https://www.rvglassexperts.com/)
One might also check Redlands Truck and RV in Redlands, CA; they apparently work with a company called "Reliable Glass", which does several types of window repairs and replacements. (Note: there are several companies in a variety of locations which are called "Reliable Glass".)
The factory does replace fogged windows (expensive), but doesn't repair them, i.e., remove the sealant between the panes and clean the "fog". If the windows have been fogged for a while, they may be etched and not cleanable.
How can one prevent them from getting foggy? My 99's still look good. I want to keep it that way
"How can one prevent them from getting foggy?"
----
Your 1999 model does not have dual-pane windows; LD first used dual pane windows in 2003 models, as far as I know. Be happy that you have single pane windows.
In 1999 Lazy Daze advertised 'dual' pane because they were two pieces of glass bonded with plastic, standard safety glass. But no air space between, so not much R-value. Still thicker and quieter than my previous motorhome which had single thickness glass, and I'm sure saved some weight. RonB Glad I can't have that expensive 'fogging' problem.
In 1999 Lazy Daze advertised 'dual' pane because they were two pieces of glass bonded with plastic, standard safety glass. But no air space between, so not much R-value. Still thicker and quieter than my previous motorhome which had single thickness glass, and I'm sure saved some weight. RonB Glad I can't have that expensive 'fogging' problem.
Yeah, but . . . That will change if you buy a new LD, Ron! 😉
And I lose two cylinders of engine, and one cylinder of generator! RonB
I think my fogged windows contribute a nice diffused magical look to the great out doors:^)
In my limited experience, it seems that those of us who have experienced this with our windows had the Bilstein shocks installed at purchase with the thought that the heavier duty shocks would improve handling.
BIG MISTAKE!! They simply make the ride hard and IIMHO increase the chance of the windows losing their seals and fogging! I'm stubborn so after spending extra for the shocks I kept them until all but one window had lost it's seal. Replaced with NAPA RV shocks finally. What a change!! The ride improved 100% and I see no loss of control.
It would be interesting to know if there is some correlation between the stiffer Bilstien shocks and fogged windows. Since the windows are one of the best features of a Lazy Daze, fogged ones would be unacceptable to me.
Like Ron, my ‘85 did not have an air gap so weren’t a problem.
I am thinking of deleting The Companion. It really chaps me to see questions like this one repeatedly asked when the answers have been posted for years on The Companion.
I not picking on vandenboschlou who is a newbie and shares nothing about himself or his rig on his profile. He is typical of the newer users of this forum who ask first, rather than going to Larry's wealth of information or The Companion.
Research first, then ask questions. There is nothing new under the sun.
Just making new friends here.
PS, Found under Foggy Windows
The Lazy Daze Companion: Fogged Windows (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/search/label/Fogged%20Windows)
If Oregon or Arizona are not convenient locations for you, you are likely out of luck. Removing the windows is not trivial due to the fine adhesive the Mothership uses. Better to DIY than let someone damage your windows with force.
I am thinking of deleting The Companion. It really chaps me to see questions like this one repeatedly asked when the answers have been posted for years on The Companion.
I not picking on vandenboschlou who is a newbie and shares nothing about himself or his rig on his profile. He is typical of the newer users of this forum who ask first, rather than going to Larry's wealth of information or The Companion.
Research first, then ask questions. There is nothing new under the sun.
Just making new friends here.
PS, Found under Foggy Windows
The Lazy Daze Companion: Fogged Windows (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/search/label/Fogged%20Windows)
If Oregon or Arizona are not convenient locations for you, you are likely out of luck. Removing the windows is not trivial due to the fine adhesive the Mothership uses. Better to DIY than let someone damage your windows with force.
For those of you who are new or newer to the Lazy Daze Owners' Group, and perhaps not familiar with the Lazy Daze Companion, please familiarize yourselves with its content. Don and some other members spent a bunch of time compiling this valuable source of mostly Lazy Daze specific information. Don, in particular, contributed many hours in organizing The Companion and is, as you can see, proud and protective of it.
LDOG members are happy to answer your questions but do encourage you to check out the search function which is part of this platform and The Companion to see if your particular issue has been addressed in the past. Over the past 20 years or so, many issues have been addressed. Feel free to continue to share your issues with us.
Chris
Chris, IMHO this needs to posted on the entry page and/or in the response to new member signup and approval.
Charles
Chris, IMHO this needs to posted on the entry page and/or in the response to new member signup and approval.
Charles
Charles, this is a good suggestion and will be given attention.
Chris
"...some correlation between the stiffer Bilstien shocks and fogged windows."
---
IMO, the fact that a rig may have Bilsteins or any "stiff" shock installed is irrelevant to whether the dual pane windows fog, particularly older dual pane windows with less effective sealants; if there is hard evidence that only rigs with stiff shocks experience fogged windows, I haven't seen it.
Motorhomes, no matter what shocks or suspensions they have, are subject to major stresses; dual pane windows are only one of the many components which are rattled and banged, torqued and "whumped", during normal driving. It's a wonder that stuff is not flying off the LD when going down the road; in poorly-built RVs, stuff is!
The inherent weakness of dual pane windows is the sealant "block" between the panes; if it's compromised from drying out, cracking, or shrinking, moisture gets in and condensation occurs between the panes. If the condensation is left for a period of time without the window being taken apart, cleaned, and re-sealed, the condensation etches into the glass and the window will remain "fogged".
YMMV, of course.
On the other hand, in spite of the companion this thread probably was a good idea. Maybe someone has new ideas or a new shop that did it right.
I'd like to point out that fogged windows are also a problem in 'sticks and bricks' houses. A friend just spent a lot to fix several windows in her house. None subject to extreme temperatures, (San Diego) some not in much sunlight, some never opened, etc., and not all that old either. I think the degree of insulation gained isn't worth as much as the degree of sound attenuation in my experience. I avoid extremes of temperature when possible, some snow is good to look at. RonB
The dual pane, insulated windows are the biggest disappointment in our LD , all of our main windows suffer from some degree of fogging. And we have two windows at home with the same issue.,
In the LD, pas Ron pointed out, we noticed little thermal insulation, the main benefit is the noise reduction. All things considered, The older windows are preferable, IMO.
Larry
I’ve probably asked this before but do other class C brands have the foggy window issue?
A couple of observations on selection bias
(1) For every person who comes and asks a question that has been covered again and again in the Companion, there are many more we never hear from because they find the information without asking. It has been an invaluable resource for me.
(2) Replacing any old shocks (like Bilsteins) with new shocks (like NAPA) is going to be a big improvement. It's practically impossible to separate the old/new from the brand switch.
Rich
'03 MB in NC
I was very disappointed when LD went to the dual pane windows. I think they should have at least offered them as an option as many RV companies do. I would never option for them in an RV and most of the time they are an extra cost item. The added temperature insulation is minimal as most have stated, and the noise factor doesn't make much difference during the day with either windows open or the air conditioner running. Nights are usually quiet unless you are parked in a truck stop or Wal-Mart with truck noise, in which case maybe they have some redeeming value.
Rich - Birch Bay, WA
"The dual pane, insulated windows are the biggest disappointment in our LD"
---
Maybe not the biggest annoyance in my 2003 TK, but certainly in the top three! The rear window was replaced at the factory; one rear side window is also fogged, but it will not be replaced. The dual panes do offer some sound insulation, but do little or nothing to insulate against heat and/or cold.
Both of our Class C's had single pane windows, which was comfortable during the warm months, but made sitting near a window chilly and uncomfortable during colder months (below 50 F). I installed a 0.09" thick acrylic sheet (standard stuff from Home Depot) on the inside of each window frame, held in place with little wire clips on the window frame screws. What an amazing difference! The cold sheet of air sliding down each window was no longer there, so sitting near a window was comfortable again, even in sub-freezing weather, and an infamous week at 10 F in North Dakota one Thanksgiving.
I remove the panels in Spring when the cold weather is over, clean them, and store them for the Fall; sometimes, I just leave them on in the summer if they are still clean between the glass and plastic. That means we can't open a window, but that's not a problem for us, as we don't ventilate with the windows, preferring to use our Turbkool to bring in fresh air. Portions of one or two windows may fog in really cold weather, but that's temporary. We haven't noticed any sound deadening with them, though inside glass storm windows did deaden the sounds in our home.
My theory, and that's all it is, that the flexing of the rig even moderate as when transitioning from the road to say a gas station ramp, is what breaks the seal after all the things Joan mentioned have happened. The inherent weakness of dual pane windows is the sealant "block" between the panes; if it's compromised from drying out, cracking, or shrinking, moisture gets in and condensation occurs between the panes. If the condensation is left for a period of time without the window being taken apart, cleaned, and re-sealed, the condensation etches into the glass and the window will remain "fogged
Yes, other rigs get fogged. At the place in Florida where they damaged my windows, the lot had about a dozen rigs waiting to be serviced. They do about a dozen every day. Others are done quickly as a minimum of sealant is used.
Yes, other rigs get fogged. At the place in Florida where they damaged my windows, the lot had about a dozen rigs waiting to be serviced. They do about a dozen every day. Others are done quickly as a minimum of sealant is used.
If one is capable, partial removable before having the windows de-fogged may advisable.
Applying layers of masking and then duct around the window frame can help reduce damage when removing the window .
Larry
When we lived in CO, I talked to several Window manufacturers and basically if the window was made outside of the Denver area (e.g. at a lower altitude), when it was transported to Denver (up over the mountains, most came from the west), it lost the "special" air between the windows.
At that time, there was only one window manufacturer in the area (e.g. at the same elevation).
From what I have seen, double pane windows in houses typically started fogging about year 25, + - 5 years. I am sure there are exceptions (aren't there always :D ). And yes, these are houses not in earthquake country, the seals just fail after time.
I agree that an RV that creates more flexes in the windows, so I would expect to fail sooner.
I do not know if preventative maintenance sealant where the window panes connect to the frame would delay/prevent the fogging.
They make inserts for single pane house windows, to temporarily turn it into a double pane, to reduce cold during the winter. I would have doubts if some could be found that would fit our LD single pane windows.
However Eric's idea lets you DIY.
PS, windows designed to reduce sound (e.g. near a busy street / loud neighborhood), had two different thickness of window pane as this reduce the sound that got thru both panes. So adding acrylic panels - different material and likely thickness, should help with that also.
Jane
I think my fogged windows contribute a nice diffused magical look to the great out doors:^)
I think you're attitude is fantastic. Like an LSD trip through nature without the need for substances.
Thanks Howard, adjusting attitude can have positive effects! Kind of like my tinnitus. That constant ringing in my ears reminds me I'm still alive!
Steve
has anybody had their foggy windows repaired? i have been unable to find anyone to do the repairs.
I had all of my windows except the small ones all pulled, cleaned, defogger, revealed, and reinstalled by these folks. Window De-fogging | RV Window Repair Specialists in Hudson, FL (https://suncoastdesigners.com/rv-services/defog/)
They did a great job. Pulled into their lot on Wednesday (can't remember the exact day), they pulled out the windows and sealed up the open holes (cardboard and tape). The next morning they brought the windows out and reinstalled them. They have hookups available right where the RVs park. I was able to stay in the RV like normal.
"I am thinking of deleting The Companion. It really chaps me to see questions like this one repeatedly asked..."
If you delete the Lazy Daze Companion (https://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com), that will guarantee that questions like this one will be repeatedly asked. Is that what you want?
I had all of my windows except the small ones all pulled, cleaned, defogger, revealed, and reinstalled by these folks. Window De-fogging | RV Window Repair Specialists in Hudson, FL (https://suncoastdesigners.com/rv-services/defog/)
They did a great job. Pulled into their lot on Wednesday (can't remember the exact day), they pulled out the windows and sealed up the open holes (cardboard and tape). The next morning they brought the windows out and reinstalled them. They have hookups available right where the RVs park. I was able to stay in the RV like normal.
WARNING: This is the same place that scratched the paint and bent two frames because the boss said they were going too slow. Plus I had to have one of the windows done again a few months later in AZ. Use them at your own risk.
I'm interested in this too. When you look back over the old postings, it appears there are very few window installers who can work on an LD without tearing it up. I think there's one in the Pacific Northwest and one in Arizona. (How's THAT for specificity?) The vendor that the mothership used to recommend near the factory is no longer available. Sorry I can't remember any of these names off the top of my head, I had pretty much made up my mind I was going to have to go back to the Mothership if I want this work done.
Fogging windows is something every LD owner can look forward to if they keep their rig long enough.
Few shops specialize in repairing or replacing fogged glass.
I know no one who has a successful repair that has lasted or didn't suffer damage to the paint around the window. This doesn't mean that a satisfactory repair can't be made, I know of no positive examples.
If any member has had a good experience, lets us know. We also have fogged windows that need repair.
The windows can be removed without damage if care is taken to mask around the perimeter of the window frames with multiple layers of masking or duct tape. It takes time to get one free without damage.
Your choices are to use a shop that does the entire job or remove the window yourself and send it to a shop.
The glass can be defogged or a replacement insulated glass panel fabricated.
https://www.coachspecialists.com/blog/rv-window-repair-options-for-fogged-or-frosted-rv-windows/https://rvglassrepairservices.com
RV Glass & Windshield Repair, RV Glass Replacement | Lazydays (https://www.lazydays.com/rv-service/rv-glass-and-windshield-repair)
RV Glass Replacement & Repair | Olympia | D.K. Boos Glass (https://www.dkboosglass.com/auto-glass/rv-glass-replacement-repair/)
Expert Nationwide RV Windshield and Window Replacement | RV Glass Solutions (https://www.rvglassexperts.com/)
Lazy Daze can replace most complete window, it's an expensive alternative.
Here's kit to clean the glass in place. I have no idea how well it works.
(DIY) Foggy Window Repair Kits, Fix Broken Glass Seal, United States & Canada (https://foggywindowrepairkits.com/foggy-window-seal-repair-kit/)
Larry
"Lazy Daze can replace most complete window, it's an expensive alternative."
---
Replacing the large rear window in my 2003 TK was about $1300. One side window is also fogged; I figure I can just look out the other one. ;)
What year was your window replaced, Joan?
Hi Larry; without going out and looking at my LD, I know the framework inside can be removed by removing the screws around the perimeter. Other brands you risk the window and glass falling outside, but LD is glued in securely, hence the risk to the outside aluminum and paint. Can the slider glass (with frame), and stationary glass (with frame) be removed from the framework without removing the glued in window frame? I'm guessing not. Not having double, argon gap windows, I won't have to actually consider this problem until I upgrade. RonB
The rear window was replaced on October 21, 2016. The cost of the window itself was $845.00; the $1300 window replacement figure is a rough estimate broken out from item listings and labor charges on the invoice for incidentals and/or replacements of other items that were done at the same time. I have no doubt that the cost of replacing the windows now would be higher, possibly much higher, but one would have to get specific pricing information from the factory.
has any body had their foggy windows repaired? If so by who and where.
Yes, vandenboschlou
Perhaps your name is Lou Vandenbosch?
Like several dozen topics, this is covered in The Companion which should always be your first stop.
The Lazy Daze Companion: Fogged Windows (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/search/label/Fogged%20Windows)
Here's kit to clean the glass in place. I have no idea how well it works.
(DIY) Foggy Window Repair Kits, Fix Broken Glass Seal, United States & Canada (https://foggywindowrepairkits.com/foggy-window-seal-repair-kit/)
Larry
Highly skeptical of the DIY kit. The facilities we used put both panes flat on a "washing machine" to clean all four sides.
I have read all the waaay back discussions on fogged windows, & these folks have been recommended. I see that they now have Indiana and Florida locations in addition to Coburg Oregon and Phoenix Arizona. Has anybody used the Indiana location where they are somewhat less likely to be familiar with LDs than the OR or AZ shops?? Contact Your RV Windshield and Glass Experts | RV Glass Solutions (https://www.rvglassexperts.com/contact_us.html#locations)
posted this over in another forum topic..maybe it's better here since it is about repairing Foggy Windows. previous post in Window Cleaner and Window Repair Recommendations (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=34274.0)
FOUND A GREAT SOLUTION!!!!!! HEAR YE HEAR YE!!
So after fielding a few comments discerning the merits of procrastination and the potential abysmal outcome, I dug in and decided to get her done. Many more phone calls, chat rooms and discussions with every window "defogging" outfit and customer i could find. Up front, short of taking a trip to Arizona, where there was at least one positive note, the options seemed pretty grim. No more procrastinating or lectures.
I could find more information on who was doing the repairs on the Hehr windows and high end coaches than I could find for the Lazy Daze. That brought me to the door step of "ProRV" in Colleyville, Texas. Colleyville is a North Suburb of Dallas about 5 miles from the DFW airport. Actually, I was referred to ProRV by more than one source, including here in an earlier post recommending Coach Specialist. As I wrote earlier, Coach Specialist and other local Dallas Dealerships do the removal, but send the window repair, cleaning defogging to ProRV. So I drove to Colleyville, Tx, some 700 miles away and ProRV completed the whole process; removal, cleaning and installation.
Let's cut to the chase for those who do not want to read everything. ProRV was "AWESOME". I rarely use that term. I am over the top OCD and build "Show Cars" that have won trophies and accolades across the South East. I would recommend them to any Lazy Daze owner. Was it easy, NO! Had they done many Lazy Daze in the past, no, only one before me. Is getting your windows pulled out a risk, Oh Yeah! They are like glued in with a hidden sealant(maybe PL1) and most reputable shops will no longer touch them after a few failed attempts. I will write up much more later on the process and discoveries, but wanted to get this out there for those contemplating doing this before the winter sets in. The business is family owned and operated. I had the privilege to get to know many of the family members and there is absolutely nothing they won't do to make you comfortable and assist you in any way. They are honest, open and very very reasonably priced. They are the kind of folks my parents and grandparents before them, taught us kids how to be. Love your neighbor, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you....you get the message. I'll go into more detail of this great experience, but first let's post some photos.
ps. I never knew the windows had such a lovely dark blue-green hue like the Rayban sunglasses.
Technical Discussion on the ProRV Removal, Cleaning and Installation of the Windows. and a few other details.
Every window in the coach was foggy, however, the wife and I decided to only do the 3 panoramic windows in the rear and the one over the dinette. As for the remaining windows our reasoning for not doing; bathroom we didn't particularly want it easier to see in/out and while sitting you are faced opposite of the window anyway. 8) , the window over the kitchen counter requires anyone over 5ft. 5 to bend over just to see out and the wife keeps the blinds closed anyway there, and finally the two windows in the cab-over area are never used, even by the kiddo.
Trip details.... Arrived on Sunday Night around 8:30. Dawn Cass, the manager over the Window Repair area provided me a code to open the main gate and I hooked up to an electrical outlet for the night. I talked with her at length as well as the Lead Technician, Jesus (pronounced Heysoos, not Jesus, our Lord and Savior). I was more than anxious and concerned about the potential damage extracting the windows. We started on Monday morning 9am and finished Thursday evening. Basically, Jesus and one assistant. I headed home on Friday morning. I stayed in a hotel about 4 miles away and rented a car. Dawn also has a small rental fleet of RVs and will be setting up a costing model for staying in one of those or renting one while you get your windows done. This is not a Suncoast drive through with a small army unscrewing and yanking the window out....damaging your coach in the process kind of deal.
Window Removal...This is and should be the topic of any LD owner to contemplate. Is it worth the risk? For me, as a perfectionist, it had to be done or sell the LD immediately. I stayed with the coach for a period of time while this was underway. When talking with Dawn and Jesus prior to arrival, I told them others in the LD world would be very interested and I would be documenting the experience for all to see. Plus, this was the first older LD with the Large windows in the rear and they welcomed my information on how they were double sealed and what to expect. Honestly, they were being nice to me understanding my anxiety of having someone else work on the coach and "Show Car" mentality. I am restoring this coach back to like new condition.. The techs were able to remove the inside rail without removing all the window dressing. Then we started with the outside seal(s). The original neoprene/foam gasket was hardened on the outside edges between the window and aluminum side. Jesus has a trick up his sleeve with heating the edge of a painters tool and pushing it up through the seal till it hit the bottom of the frame. Carefully doing this for a 12" area and placing a pry bar with a wood board between it and the aluminum coach side, he carefully starting trying to pull the window frame away from the side of the coach. The side and the frame flexed just enough to get a razor blade knife to get to the inside PL1 seal. Now where that seal material was between the frame and the window opening is a mystery and was inconsistent. You cannot see up in there, nor is there a razor blade device that can turn 90 degrees between the frame and the coach side. So this was a very very slow process, requiring lots of patience. Balancing how much force to avoid bending the frame or the coach side just enough to cut away the inner seal was the hardest thing to accomplish. LD did not plan for those windows to ever come out. So carefully repeating this process and keeping a board between the window frame and side area and moving to the next 12 inches repeating the process, inching the window out was painstaking. Did we bend the exterior window frame a fraction as it was flexing, only visible to the eye of a painter or someone who does sheetrock, maybe. But no major bending or frame twisting or any damage. ;D More importantly, no damage to the window opening (wood inner frame) and no dents or dings to the aluminum siding. The first window took almost 3 hours to get out. On to the rear window... feeling a bit more confident, understanding what to expect, it still took 2.5 hours...big window and 3 people to handle to avoid the window being damaged or falling out. It was very heavy.... on to the next... Now a few words about LD construction. I understand what they hoped to gain by putting the inner seal of PL1, but how it appeared to be applied in random amounts and there not being any sealant between the inner window frame and aluminum skin is questionable and a good topic for discussion. I've built many cars, restored homes, and I've helped build airplanes with aluminum skins and there are better water-proofing methods and a few subtle things that could be done to protect the wood or prevent a leak in the advent of a broken outer seal. Even with the inner seal water could have gotten onto the window frame if the outer seal failed. Another topic for another day.
Cleaning, Repairing and Defogging.... Here is a bit of mystery, as I was not allowed into this area. But there are a couple of photos showing what the windows looked like. I include one of those earlier.... The tech did say it was like cleaning most other windows. Since they do window repair work for Newmar, who also uses Hehr windows, the size and thickness were not unusual.
Installation... Installation was a bit straight forward with 3 of us handling the window... I ordered the window seal material from LD, who assisted in getting this shipped 2 day express. 80 ft. at $1.50/ft plus shipping. What was shipped and what was we pulled off the window was different. So I imagine what they use has changed in the past 16 years. After putting the LD seal on the window, we applied a 1/2" bead of PL1 between the seal and the inner angle of the metal frame where it makes the 90 bend. That should evenly apply the inner sealant between the window metal frame and coach window opening edges. Now as controversial as this may sound, I don't agree that this is foolproof for sealing the window and never having or obtaining water damage. So, I applied a 3rd seal on the outer edge, using white PL1 on the upper and side edges where the paint is white and using black silicone on the bottom edge. I'm guessing that should protect it from just about any good ole' southern thunderstorm but possibly fail in a hurricane, Cat 3 or greater or a tornado.
All for now... questions? ...If you decide to have your windows done, I can not guarantee what your outcome will be, since I do not know the condition of your coach. If you have water damage soft spot near the windows, it would be pretty much impossible to pry the windows out without issues. None the less, I don't think anyone else in the whole country would take any better care of you than these folks. Tell them Robby referred you and you just might get a discount or charged more. :D I am in no way affiliated with or work for anyone, except NASA. I will for the sake of conversation offer $1 for anyone who can guess where I am in the picture of my profile and $5 to the first person to guess correctly. Private messages only, please. Offer good for 48 hours.. Let's get started... now winners but close...
ANSWER... ACTUAL BORON Spacecraft Baikonur, Kazakhstan Cosmodrone...not a simulator. There are two, however the rockets and some instrumentation was been removed many years ago.
I am in no way affiliated with or work for anyone, except NASA. I will for the sake of conversation offer $1 for anyone who can guess where I am in the picture of my profile and $5 to the first person.
Since you work for NASA, a prototype space craft of some sort is possible but would expect more switches, lights, monitors and circuit breakers.
From the looks of the cab, a locomotive driver's seat is my guess.
Larry
My guess is a Space Shuttle simulator. Thanks for the detailed write-up. That's what makes this forum so valuable!
No correct answer yet, but close, to keep the thread clean of irrelevant info, I'd request folks send their guess via messages. I agree, this is a great forum to get information. I read quite a bit and did a lot of research before I bought mine and well before I signed up to the forum. Like others, I spent quite a bit of time looking. I had narrowed my search down to very specific models in the LD, Bigfoot and Born Free. I've only seen one other LD in my area and only one other while out camping. I've owned 6 MHs over the past 30 years; three I restored and 3 just used. I kept missing the good ones over the past year, by a day or two, it's unbelievable...caught this one the very minute it was posted. Although it is/was in pretty good shape all around for the age and had good documentation, I decided to restore it to like new condition. In some ways it will be better when I finish. I'm about to start Phase III.
ANSWER..... BORON Spaceship Baikonur, Kazakhstan. Cosmodrone..
Hi everybody, I am contemplating this too -- have learned that the RV Glass Solutions folks who have been tagged with positive reviews in the past on LDO (operations in OR and AZ) now have a service location in Elkhart and another in FL. Here's the link to all 4 of their detailed addresses: Contact Your RV Windshield and Glass Experts | RV Glass Solutions (https://www.rvglassexperts.com/contact_us.html)
Who knows how many LD's the FL and IN locations have serviced? (compared to the west coast locations)
I live near the Michigan/Ohio line, and I have emailed the Elkhart folks to see if I can run down there and get a quote for cleaning or replacement. Have also written to Hehr glass (source for these double panes we have in the 2003 and few years following LDs, mine is an 05) which is near Saginaw to see if they would supply me with the glass and I could carry it down to Elkhart for installation.... yes would be a PITA, but not as big a PITA as running 2200 miles to LA for the factory to install a whole new window. My big fear, tho, in NOT going to the factory is that IF there has been moisture damage to the rear wall -- and it's discovered by the glass contractor -- THEN what??? I have no indication that I have a problem, but you know, there ARE surprises in life. I am thinking it would give me a pretty breezy ride to LA....
Well, we'll see what responses I get from these folks. I'll keep you advised.
MJB
I worked in the insulated glass industry for a few years. The window units are 2 pieces of glass heat sealed to either an aluminum frame or a reinforced foam frame. When those units are stressed the seal will fail. The fogging that you are seeing is moisture stains on the inside of glass panels from vapor that has infiltrated the seal. Just because the glass is fogged does not mean that there is a leak around the window.
If you suspect a leak around the window a simple moisture meter can let you know if there is any moisture in your walls. They are available from Amazon for under $50.00 or any big box lumberyard will have them.
I just had mine done at ProRV right outside Dallas Texas. I posted a lengthy description of the process and experience. I would recommend them to any LD owner. I considered going the RV Glass Solution route in Florida, but it took the main office 3 days just to answer the question if they can do them. I had to send them pics for obtaining estimates. They basically have expanded and bought out some local operators in Florida and other states. I'm not so sure those places will provide the same level of service as the original Cogburn or Phoenix facitilites. I would imagine it's all about the tech's capability who does the work. The estimated cost for repair from the RV Glass Solution main office, was twice the estimates from Suncoast and ProRV. Given the LD reviews and the need to be patient and take your time dealing with the Inner seal and aluminum siding, I opt'ed out of the Suncoast route. Suncoast's reviews are all over the map. I address several technical challenges of dealing with our windows in my writeup.
See my write up in the other forum "Lazy Daze Info & General Discussions". Foggy windows are discussed in several places.
foggy windows (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=35230.0)
ProRV is located in Colleyville, Tx. Ask for Dawn Cass who is over that Glass repair department.
Robby
Suncoast is variable as the tech's turnover every week.
Most RV windows are easily removed. We all know LD does not intend moisture to enter and seals them quite well. Suncoast expects the techs to complete a rig quickly, so pry bars get used and the rig gets damaged.
I had a 97 LD that I sold a couple years ago and there was no fogging in any windows. Is it possible the older windows were of superior construction or was I just lucky?
I had a 97 LD that I sold a couple years ago and there was no fogging in any windows. Is it possible the older windows were of superior construction or was I just lucky?
The fogging only happens in dual pane windows with an air space between the panes. 97's didn't have them, so no fogging.
The fogging only happens in dual pane windows with an air space between the panes. 97's didn't have them, so no fogging.
Well that explains that. :D
When did dual pane windows start in LDs?
Edit: Answered my own question thanks to Andy's blog.
Windows
"One of the big attractions of a Lazy Daze coach is the number and size of windows. In addition, they have always been deeply tinted so that although occupants can see out, folks outside can't see inside in daylight. Prior to 2003 models, the windows were of a double-pane construction with a tinted film between them, but there was no insulating air space between the panes. Beginning in 2003, LD started using a true insulated window, with improved insulating qualities. These windows greatly reduce wintertime condensation."
With all the fogging issues of true thermal pane in a moving vehicle maybe the pre 2003 way was better.
With all the fogging issues of true thermal pane in a moving vehicle maybe the pre 2003 way was better.
Except the laminated windows can crack. We haven't been able to find a local glass provider that has a tinted laminate that is dark enough to replace ours. We have a crack in one side of the laminated glass in a rear window. It doesn't affect safety so we live with it.
Except the laminated windows can crack. We haven't been able to find a local glass provider that has a tinted laminate that is dark enough to replace ours. We have a crack in one side of the laminated glass in a rear window. It doesn't affect safety so we live with it.
Theresa,
I *think* Hehr is the manufacturer of those windows. There is a Hehr glass plant in Michigan, and window plants in MI and IN.
Window Plants (http://www.hehrintl.com/contacts.html) Worth a try.
Linda
We have a crack in one side of the laminated glass in a rear window. It doesn't affect safety so we live with it.
Same here, it doesn't leak, just looks bad, I can live with it.
Theresa,
I *think* Hehr is the manufacturer of those windows. There is a Hehr glass plant in Michigan, and window plants in MI and IN.
Window Plants (http://www.hehrintl.com/contacts.html) Worth a try.
Linda
Thanks Linda,
I didn't know there was a Hehr Glass plant that close to us. I sent them an email requesting any info they could provide. I will report back.
Hi, Linda B! Have you picked up your LD yet?
Theresa, I just wrote to Hehr too -- they are near Saginaw - Chesaning, I think. I was asking (tho acknowledge probably not..) if they would sell a replacement rear window unit to me I could take down to those guys in Elkhart to install. However, I emailed them (RV Glass Solutions/Elkhart) the same day -- and haven't heard back yet -- so most likely they will want to buy from Hehr and mark up + install labor.
If I make any progress on this, I will post.
MJB
Identical topics from 2 boards merged here. Please do not start multiple topics for the same thing.