Hi, folks -- I am getting ready to have an outlet installed at home for the RV (27 RK) -- of course, I know that 30 amp/120 is all I need -- but is there any good reason to install 50 amp instead? What other equipment, toys or tools might ever plug into this outlet?
In equipment decisions I usually "overkill" to be sure I have excellent capacity/reserve power -- but not sure this logic makes any sense in this case. My brother owns a 50 amp Vogue class A, but I put the likelihood of that unit ever being in my driveway at about 1%....unless I inherit it!! He thinks Michigan is the Yukon! :D
Thanks for helping me think this through.
Marcia
I"d let $$$$$ be the deciding factor.
I don't remember any time in the 30 plus years I've lived in my home when I need a 50 Amp connection. Most older homes (by older I mean 50 years plus) only have 80 to 100 amp service. My 100 year old home has been upgrade to 150 amp service but I know that is an exception. Sooooo when you B-I-L shows up he could use either an plain 110v 20 Amp adapter or just booomdock. BTW I agree places with snow are to be avoided at all costs...... <smile> look good only on post cards.
glen
I suggest making sure that the installer knows what to install; I've heard a few horror stories about 'electricians' who installed the wrong systems! The information at these links may help:
http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/30-amp%20Service.pdf
Expensive mistake when installing 30-amp RV outlet at home - RV Travel (https://www.rvtravel.com/a-common-expensive-mistake-when-installing-30-amp-rv-outlet-at-home/)
I think installing a NEMA 14-50 could be worth the extra cost/hassle if your electrical panel can handle the load.
A NEMA 14-50 outlet is what we would call a RV 50 amp. It's also a pretty good choice for Electric Vehicle chargers. It can be used for an electric clothes dryer or a welder if you needed it.
A RV 30-amp is a TT-30. It's a rare outlet without much compatibility outside of the RV world.
If you think you'll never use the outlet for anything except your LazyDaze, go for the TT-30/RV 30 amp.
There are some middle options too (run wire for 50-amp, but configure it as TT-30), which a decent electrician can help you with.
There are so many variables on cost and value. A lot depends on how much capacity you have in your electrical panel and how far the wires will be run (wire gets expensive fast!).
Rich
'03 MB in NC
Marcia,
I don't think there's a good reason for a 50 amp. More expensive for the wire and other components, no benefit to your coach. Depending on where the receptacle will be located, a separate 20 amp household receptacle protected by its own breaker adjacent to the 30 amp for the coach might make more sense if the electrician's pulling wire anyway.
Bill
Even if you ever did have a 50 amp rig there at some point, you could still run it on 30 amps and have adequate power for your basic "driveway" needs. Frank
I agree with Frank, I would do 30 A if it were mine. Be advised that some electricians don't understand about RV receptacles. Friend had an electrician install a receptacle for his trailer, he installed 50 amp 240 volt with an RV receptacle. They found it before any damage was done. I asked who the electrician was, no answer.....
Jon
This is the main page for the myrv.us site the deals with electrical issues:
RV Electric (http://www.myrv.us/electric/index.htm)
I'd recommend putting in a 30A service since a 50A service is a bigger and more expensive project. Even if family/friends visit with a 50A rig, they can usually get by running off 30A with an adapter. Even with our current 50A rig we have often been on a 30A service. It only gets to be an issue if it is hot enough to need more than one of our A/Cs. As Joan said, make sure that the installer knows that this is a TT-30 120V service (NOT a 240V three wire service for something like a welder!).
It a good idea to have a 50A->30A adapter for your LD though. We had a few times where the 30A socket in the CG post was in such bad shape shape that the 50A socket as a better choice.
Art
The weekend we moved into our present home, I added a 30-amp outlet on the side of the garage for the LD.
It was a great move, we have had dozens of visitors over the years use it and we keep our LD plugged in at home, primarily to run the refrigerator and A/C. Solar takes care of the batteries.
Your home's electrical service needs to evaluated by an electrician to see if the extra capacity is available and what needs to be done the main electrical panel to install a 120-VC 30-amp circuit breaker. Our previous home required running larger wires to the garage and installing a sub-panel for the breaker.
Larry
30 amp is enough. 50 is overkill and expensive.
Just MHO.
Our place was built in 1985 when alternative forms of energy efficiency was in vogue. This included a heat-pump water heater on a 60A circuit (2 30A breakers ganged together). It worked marginally for the 6 months it was in warranty. PG&E plumbed for gas and I put in a new water heater. After getting the rig, I looked at the breakers and thought 'how hard could it be to wire an RV plug? After some contemplation, I whipped out my checkbook and called a competent electrician. Run the circuit to the other side of the garage and install a 30A PV plug-$395, having it done right, priceless. ;)
Similar to the one I use; not a 'puck'. 50A>30A adapter.
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Wiring/Mighty-Cord/A10-5030FHVP.html
Hi Marcia. A lot depends on how you are going to put in the outlet. If you are having a trench dug for the wiring, and an electrician wire it with a 'campground' type pedestal; the extra cost to do it right is negligible. Have both 14-50 and TT-30 installed, so you don't need an adaptor for the LD. Like a campground, might as well have the 110VAC 20A outlet too.
The odds are high that you will own an electric vehicle some day, and even higher that someone may visit you with an electric vehicle. They may need a recharge, and it is faster with a 220 VAC outlet. A friend has an electric car, and when their daughter visits, she often needs a recharge at the same time, so one of them ends up on the 20 A. 110VAC circuit. Their house, like mine came with a electric dryer outlet, and gas, so their dryer is gas, and the electric outlet was unused until the advent of electric cars. A simple adaptor turns my 220v outlet into two 110 VAC outlets, and my LD has a place to plug in.
Make sure you do your own electrical check of the installed outlet the first time, just as you would do at a campground.
My dad had an outlet installed for an RV at his house. I don't think he ever used it. 30 years later I was going to plug in, and I checked it by habit. It was 110VAC, but wired backwards! Hopefully the bonding in the LD would have shorted out the 110V AC hot line to ground and tripped the breaker in the house panel. RonB
You can buy an RV electrical box at Home Depot for $150. It has a 50a breaker and outlet, 30a breaker and outlet, and 20a gfci breaker and outlet. You wire it with 100a aluminum or copper wire from your panel. I am getting ready to put one in at one of my properties.
You can buy an RV electrical box at Home Depot for $150. It has a 50a breaker and outlet, 30a breaker and outlet, and 20a gfci breaker and outlet. You wire it with 100a aluminum or copper wire from your panel. I am getting ready to put one in at one of my properties.
If cost isn't an issue, go for the 50a. Cost isn't always an issue. When I had one done, we were already upgrading the electric panel, and the distance from the new panel to the needed outlet was less than 10 ft. No cost difference for such a simple project.
Really need a lot more info for a good recommendation.
You can buy an RV electrical box at Home Depot for $150. It has a 50a breaker and outlet, 30a breaker and outlet, and 20a gfci breaker and outlet. You wire it with 100a aluminum or copper wire from your panel.
Most people should not consider installing their own 30 or 50-amp service, especially a new panel. In most jurisdictions it requires a licensed electrician and pulling a building permit. The labor can easily exceed the cost of materials several times.
Not really understanding how houses are wired can lead to a dangerous, potential fatal installation, 95% of folks should leave this up to a professional.
If one is thinking about upgrading to a Class A or a DP, 50-amp service could useful, it offers no benefit to a Class C owner.
Many homes do not have the capacity for 50-amp service. 50-amps can provide over 10,000-watts of power compared to only around 3500-watts for a 30-amp service. 50-amp is a big jump.
Larry
"You wire it with 100a aluminum or copper wire from your panel."
Aluminum wiring was popular in the Sixties, until houses started burning down. There were several reasons for this (https://www.carsondunlop.com/training/resources/the-true-story-behind-aluminum-wiring-part-one/): inferior conductivity, low melting point, a tendency to creep, and most of all, the formation of a nonconductive oxide film (unlike copper). Here's a quotation from the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors:
The presence of single-strand aluminum wiring may void a home’s insurance policies. Inspectors may instruct their clients to talk with their insurance agents about whether the presence of aluminum wiring in their home is a hazard, a defect, and a problem that requires changes to their policy language. According to the InterNACHI Home Inspection Standards of Practice, a home inspector is required to report upon single-strand, solid conductor aluminum branch-circuit wiring, if observed by the home inspector.
I would never use aluminum wiring for anything.
AL is verboten for branch circuit wiring, but AL is still very common and very allowed for main service feeds and subpanels.
Regardless, a 100Amp RV subpanel would require a permit and an electrician and probably a bigger main panel than 95% of people already have.
On the other hand, electricians have been installing 50 Amp outlets (also Electrical Vehicle charging outlets) left and right around my city. They know the parts and the prices and it's a very common job to estimate and perform.
Many would have to look up the details on a 30Amp RV outlet, as they don't see them very often.
I would at least ask about prices for both. You might be surprised.
Rich
'03 MB in NC
I would never use aluminum wiring for anything.
Our home was built in 1967, in the middle of the Vietnam war when copper prices were sky high, with much of it being used by the military. Many homes around us were wired with aluminum and most have been rewired due to continued problems..
Before buying, I checked and found the house was wired with copper. I had worked on equipment wired with aluminum and it caused nothing but problems, with corrosion and loosening of connections being the big issues, even when using the special paste and rated fittings.
After moving in, we noticed the lights and TV flickering occasionally. Investigating, the house's main electrical panel had aluminum bus bars that were badly corroded away and sparking when under load. The power panel had to be rebuilt and every electrical circuit breaker replaced, all were badly damaged. Copper contacts and aluminum bus bars do not get along well.
Lucky for us, part of the buying process was a home buyer's insurance policy that paid for most of the work.
Larry
I agree with most here that say 30amp/120v is your best option. I had installed at my home almost 20 years ago and never regretted the decision.
Gary
Marcia,
IMO it depends a lot on the wiring at your house.
As others have pointed out, if your main panel is low (e.g. 100 amp range), you are using half of that for a 50 amp RV plug (if they are really using the electricity). It will only be used when your/someone’s RV is using it, but that can have a big effect how you and the RV people are experiencing life (I can’t imagine a breaker flipping and having to check two “houses” to see who was using what when that created that.
But as Rich (and others) said, if you have the ability and the cost is not that high, running wire for a 50 amp might be good – for future use when who knows what will be common in our homes in 10-20 years. Especially if the install is easy (e.g. an outlet close to your panel and wiring path that is easy to get to, not buried in walls/celling, is cheaper than longer runs that are hard to wire).
If you are doing a 50 amp, I like Rich’s (and Bill’s) idea, run the wire for 50 amp but put in a 30 amp outlet (and a 20 amp outlet if you want that). The wire is there when you want it and the outlet and panel connections can be changed over time.
I also agree with Joan, for electricity many installers don’t know what they are doing. I have seen things that are downright scary and as others mentioned aluminum and copper don’t mix, yet some electrician installed that. To have the electricity working well, the two phases of the panel should be reasonably balanced (not so easy as it is hard to predict who will be doing what at the same time - this should be done at original panel installation planning time as well as when adding bigger items like your RV outlet). You need to know what all is pulling electricity from your panel – e.g. set up the RV breaker and other energy hog items on the same phase and they are now competing for a limited amount of electricity. Current electrical codes assume the household is running a lot of stuff (many electronics, many items in the kitchen, etc.) but older homes didn’t assume that (how many computers and TVs and high wattage electrical kitchen appliances were being used at once in the typical 1970 home?). So I suggest “interviewing” a good handful of electricians, making sure they have done many jobs like this, and asking for references from them of people who they did this same exact job for (and calling those references).
Make sure it will be permitted (write that into the contract and keep a significant amount of the payment until the permit is finalized) and when you get an inspector assigned tell them you are concerned that this job be done correctly and you want to make sure the contractor followed the current Code (and if possible be there when they are there doing the inspection).
The inspector will not necessarily catch errors, but I figure you have a better chance with two pairs of eyes looking at it.
Oh, and check your state records to confirm the electrician is licensed and bonded (insurance if they mess up and don’t pay for the damage) and there are no outstanding court cases (sometimes states list these with the license and bonding info and sometimes you have to check the courts yourself). Bonding only covers so much and if there is only $20,000 to claim and 3 people in front of you, likely you won’t see a cent. That is why I look for currently licensed and bonded companies for anything that could cause expensive repairs (electrical, plumbing, and structural).
Ok, now I am sure you have gotten more info than you ever thought you would from all these replies to help you make your decision.
Jane
Great timing on this thread. I'm starting the installation process (with Bluebonnet Electric) for service in my mother's back yard tomorrow. I've been vacillating back and forth between 50 AMP (with the appropriate dog bone) or 30 AMP for my LD.
It's hot and humid already here in Texas and I want to run my AC at night without the generator.
I thoroughly enjoy the technical expertise of the many forum members who share their knowledge with those of us who are much less savvy. However ( there’s always a “but”), herewith a plea for mercy when using terms of jargon. A brief accompanying explanation will be greatly appreciated. Not picking on Jane (really!), but I was befuddled by the use of “phase” in her excellent post. The first thing that popped into my head was some sort of waveform, but that made no sense in context. I had to bail out and google it to find that it meant one of the two incoming service lines to the panel. I never knew there were two. Learn something every day. 🤔. — Electrically challenged, Jon
Debbie (In Venice); When you use a 'Dogbone' to adapt your 30 Amp LD to a 50 Amp service, you are just not connecting to one power pin in the 50 A. socket. It goes unused. If you are spending money to have under ground wiring installed, and paying to have the electrical installed; you might as well include one more wire in the feed (4 instead of 3), to have future capability for 50 A.
Have both the TT-30 and 14-50 sockets in the box. Adaptors for long term stays should be avoided. Save that dogbone for campgrounds that only have 50 A. spots left. If you decide to save propane trips, you can electrify your water heater (Hottrod) and run that line separately to the 20 A regular duplex socket in the hookup box. You can't do that unless you've got that extra 20A from the other 'phase'. (20A plus 30A= 50A) Parussky's Home Depot box comes with all three sockets and breakers.
With 4 in-laws (I call them outlaws) in Texas, I know what it can be like in summer. If you have the 15,000 Btuh roof air, instead of the 13,500 Btuh, you'll be pushing that 30A limit. You might want that extra 20A capability to run other things like a hair dryer, coffee pot, even the microwave. (I won't mention toasters again). RonB
Hi Ron!
Thanks for the input. Per my grand-nephew who works for LCRA (installing huge transformers around the state) and pulls a 50 AMP travel trailer, 50 and 20 AMP service is being installed.
I actually purchased the Home Depot 50/30/20 AMP box. We're using power on a pole that was previously connected to building that is no longer on the property.
I may start a separate thread with pictures of the work and results.
Thanks again!
Hi Debbie, We all like pictures of that type of addition, since some others of us may be adding this feature. I have friends with 12 acres rural, that are shopping for a travel trailer, and we can add two outlets, for when my LD visits their place. RonB
This topic has been very interesting. Just to be clear as to what I have done and am planning on doing: I already ran a 30a and a 20a circuit at my office building. I currently park my LD in the back of the building and keep the 30a plugged in all the time. The 20a circuit is being used to string led lights in the engine bay and other areas to keep the damn packrats away. So far after 2 year it has worked.
One of my single family rentals has a large yard with a very large back alleyway. So large in fact that you could easily backup a 40ft fifth wheel. So I am planning on removing part of the block wall in the back and putting in an area to park up to a 40ft RV, boat, trailer, etc and will block wall it off from the house. I also plan on extending the drain and water, so there will be complete hookups.
The electrical panel for the RV requires a 100a branch and my existing panel, which I replaced 30+ years ago was only 100a. So I had a new drop brought in from the pole and I had my electrician put in a very nice and large 200a panel. More than enough power to run the circuits in the house and the RV pad. So far I have spent about $1500 and figure the rest will be about $750. When it is done, I will either move my LD (probably not) or allow others to use the pad for short term parking. No matter what, a single family home with the hookups for an RV is a prized commodity.
Adding my thx for this thread & all the wisdom from various wizards--and breaking the terminology down for those of us not in-the-know, as this is a project in the future for the stix. The FOLD is indeed a many splendored thing!
Lynne
Thanks to all -- with all your feedback, I feel confident about going with just the 30 amp in this situation at this moment -- and am grateful for the links that produced hand outs I can give my contractor.
Also thanks to those of you who treated me courteously by making the diplomatic (but NOT TRUE) assumption I might try to wire this myself!! There are many things I will try on my own, but electricity is not one of them!
Thanks again.
MJB
Jon,
Sorry, I wasn’t intending to explain details on purpose but I was just trying to point out an effort needs to be made to balance things and make sure the users of the electricity are not trying to use too many things on one breaker or on one phase (one of the 120V wires coming into the house/building) and it is not a simple as it might seem. To just say it needs to be balanced didn't seem to convey the whole picture.
I see balancing missed by many electricians and handymen - many will say sure and wire up whatever you are asking saying it will be fine when they have not determined what else is on that circuit nor what the entire panel looks like.
That is why you want to interview your electrician to make sure they can do your specific install and they have satisfied customers that can let you know it was done correctly in their home (they are not flipping breakers regularly, didn’t destroy their RV, etc.). And make sure they are bonded so there is a way to recover your costs if they worker says too bad the damage happened, I can’t cover that (or just disappears).
A simple explanation is that the electricity in the panel is split into two chunks (official layperson term ) – called Phases. This is not the left and right side (or top and bottom) of the panel but is typically every other spot for a breaker in the panel.
When you have a breaker that takes up two spots in the electrical panel (e.g. 50 amp for a cooktop that uses a lot of electricity), it pulls 120V from each of the two phases to make 240V total.
If you have too many things on one phase, the panel is not balanced. E.g. If all your 30 amps for clothes dryer, oven/cooktop, hot tub, RV outlet, etc. are on one phase you can easily overload that phase. The same if you are running too many things on one breaker and overload that breaker.
So when you are adding something bigger (30 amp, 50 amp) you want an electrician that will take a look at the panel and make sure they are balancing things.
Note: Balancing things are best guess of how someone is using electricity in their home. E.G. Do you always run the dishwasher and the clothes washer/dryer right after dinner, or do you always make sure you run them separate (only one of those appliances at a time ever). What all do you run in your outlets at one time? [5 kids/grandkids all having their own TVs and computers or just one TV and rarely use the computer.]
I found a website that has some good basic info on balancing your panel – I scanned a couple of their pages and overall the site looks good. TheSpruce.com - basic electrical info (https://www.thespruce.com/balancing-electrical-loads-1152238)
Note: I and this web pages uses terms like typical and usually. There are always exceptions. And never trust what your electrical panel says, it is rarely complete. I learned that way back when – I shut off the living room breaker only to get zapped because the switch I was working on was on the outside light breaker (other side of the wall). Luckily not a nasty zap.
I have been meaning to add to my last post that an inspector is not necessarily an expert who will catch all errors, but you are getting two pairs of eye on the project which increases your odds. I will update my original post to include that. This is why I always look for currently licensed and bonded (with no current lawsuits) for things that can be costly to fix like electricity, plumbing, structural, etc.
Balance. Ah. That’s why we can’t run our microwave and toaster oven at the same time at home! Thanks, Jon
Jon,
If you have an older home it is not wired the same as newer ones as all those kitchen appliances were not common.
Likely there is one outlet circuit (wires all running to one breaker) for the entire kitchen (current code requires 2 outlet circuits for the kitchen) and often refrigerators, microwaves, and kitchen sink disposals are also on one of those circuits (sometimes their own circuits in newer homes).
You may have an outlet nearby you can use to plug in some of your kitchen appliances (or close enough you can add a new outlet off that same circuit).
You can figure out what is on your circuits by making a map. Turn off one breaker and go see what stopped working (check outlets, lights, appliances). You may have an outlet you could use for some of your appliances (or close enough to wire a new outlet to). Then turn that breaker on and do another breaker. If you end up with items unknown, figure them out in the end.
I have seen very odd things at times - like on outlet not on the same circuit as the other outlets in the room, but tacked onto another circuit as it crossed the house on the way to the electrical panel. I figured maybe an apprentice did the odd stuff. So don't make any assumptions, test everything (all switches, all outlets, all appliances).
My personal opinion we should get this map whenever we buy a house, but that never happens ;D .
Another tip, if you have an older home (including 1970s not just 1950s or before), check your electrical panel and google that manufacturer/model. There is a famous (infamous?) one that if you overloaded it the breakers didn't flip. Symptoms can be blackening around the outlets or not being able to run things but no breaker flips. The breakers are to protect when you overload the circuit (try to run too many things on it) and if they don't flip that can cause a fire. I have found that brand in homes as early as the 1950s and as late as the 1970s but I don't know exactly what years it was used.
Jane