Lazy Daze Owners' Group

I'm getting today new tires. They are being installed from the tire shop with the by far best reputation in my area.

Is it correct that I can tell them to leave the extended valves on the wheels as they are now? Or is it better to let go of them and let the tire shop install new valves and new "hard" valve extensions (that is what they apparently usually do)?

Klaus

Keep them. If they don’t leak tell them not to touch them. Just my opinion and what I do.

Keep them. If they don’t leak tell them not to touch them. Just my opinion and what I do.

Warn the installer of the extensions and to take care when the wheel is on the tire machine, Discount Tire broke one of our LD's long, rear-wheel extenders, they did replace it at their cost but it took over a week for them to get a replacement, requiring another trip to the shop.
I now carry a spare just in case one gets bent or broken during tire rotation or new tire installation.

Replacement extenders are available from Borg Tire.
BORG Equipment & Supply Corp. Inc. - Automotive Equipment & Supplies (https://yourtireshopsupply.com/manufacturer/38/borg-equipment)
The rubber seals get hard with age and may require the removal of the extension(s) for replacement of the seals.

Larry

Hi Klaus.  Take off your wheel simulators before you go to get the tires. Keep the extenders you have. Watch the employees carefully.
     My trip to Discount Tires took 6 days to change out 6 tires for the new Agilent Michelin.  First they were going to replace my nickel plated brass tire valves   Amazon.com: TecUnite 4 Pack Metal Valve Stem TR-416-S 1 Inch Outer Mount... (https://www.amazon.com/TecUnite-Metal-Valve-TR-416-S-Outer/dp/B07CYLCP2J/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=metal+valve+stem&qid=1587164925&sr=8-3)    with snap in plastic valves. Then they wanted to throw away my V2B Alligator caps, they didn't know what they were.      Amazon.com: Alligator V2B Inflate Through Valve Stem Cap Gator Auto RV Semi... (https://www.amazon.com/Alligator-V2B-Inflate-Through-Valve/dp/B014VCY3S2)     The first day they stripped out the Schrader valve from one of my dual tire extenders, and then stripperd out the internal threads trying to fix it.  Then they mangled one 3" extender on the front tire.
  45 Degree Valve Extenders | Camping World (https://www.campingworld.com/45-degree-valve-extenders-2106.html?rrec=true)     Good thing I had a new spare at home. They had 4 tires dated 01 2020, but two others; one was from April 2019, the other from August 2019 and looked used. So I went back another day and had those two replaced, one with the same 01 2020, the other a week older,  the last week of 2019.  Not 15 seconds after I cautioned the employee about being careful of my other front tire extension, he sheared off my complete tire valve. The extension was recovered, they replaced the tire valve. I didn't have time to replace the hose they ruined, so I took one off of my spare and they put it on my dual. (You might say a spare spare).  When I got home I couldn't check the air pressure on my other front tire because they didn't screw on the (brand new) extension correctly. When I took off the V2B cap on the other new tire valve to put on the front extension, they hadn't bothered to put in a new Schrader valve. No valve at all! I happened to have a new Schrader valve, but it was tough to screw in with air escaping from the tire.  
     I hate to think what someone with no experience would have had happen.  I'm not at Larry's level of experience but I've worked on most of my cars.
     I take off the wheel simulators and clean and wax those off the rig. Least I can do every six-seven years!  My E350 has the longer studs on the wheels, so I don't have the stud extensions to complicate things.    I got the new tires not leaking, on Tuesday, and left for Morro Bay the next day.  That took a 'leap of faith'.
       The employees were all young and not much experience with anything that wasn't a standard car. They spent 25 minutes jacking all four wheels off the ground at once,  about 6", because of some 'absurd' written procedure about spinning the rear wheels after installation, to make sure a tire wheel weight didn't hit the fender. Not exactly an issue on a motorhome! The portable jacks were solid, and the pavement was level, so it was safe to have the parking brake off.  Still made me nervous.
 When I had them fix the dual with my spare extension, I had them put the valves 180 degrees apart on the duals.  RonB

Hi Klaus.  Take off your wheel simulators before you go to get the tires. Keep the extenders you have. Watch the employees carefully.
    My trip to Discount Tires took 6 days to change out 6 tires for the new Agilent Michelin.  First they were going to replace my nickel plated brass tire valves  Amazon.com: TecUnite 4 Pack Metal Valve Stem TR-416-S 1 Inch Outer Mount... (https://www.amazon.com/TecUnite-Metal-Valve-TR-416-S-Outer/dp/B07CYLCP2J/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=metal+valve+stem&qid=1587164925&sr=8-3)    with snap in plastic valves. Then they wanted to throw away my V2B Alligator caps, they didn't know what they were.      Amazon.com: Alligator V2B Inflate Through Valve Stem Cap Gator Auto RV Semi... (https://www.amazon.com/Alligator-V2B-Inflate-Through-Valve/dp/B014VCY3S2)    The first day they stripped out the Schrader valve from one of my dual tire extenders, and then stripperd out the internal threads trying to fix it.  Then they mangled one 3" extender on the front tire.
  45 Degree Valve Extenders | Camping World (https://www.campingworld.com/45-degree-valve-extenders-2106.html?rrec=true)    Good thing I had a new spare at home. They had 4 tires dated 01 2020, but two others; one was from April 2019, the other from August 2019 and looked used. So I went back another day and had those two replaced, one with the same 01 2020, the other a week older,  the last week of 2019.  Not 15 seconds after I cautioned the employee about being careful of my other front tire extension, he sheared off my complete tire valve. The extension was recovered, they replaced the tire valve. I didn't have time to replace the hose they ruined, so I took one off of my spare and they put it on my dual. (You might say a spare spare).  When I got home I couldn't check the air pressure on my other front tire because they didn't screw on the (brand new) extension correctly. When I took off the V2B cap on the other new tire valve to put on the front extension, they hadn't bothered to put in a new Schrader valve. No valve at all! I happened to have a new Schrader valve, but it was tough to screw in with air escaping from the tire. 
    I hate to think what someone with no experience would have had happen.  I'm not at Larry's level of experience but I've worked on most of my cars.
    I take off the wheel simulators and clean and wax those off the rig. Least I can do every six-seven years!  My E350 has the longer studs on the wheels, so I don't have the stud extensions to complicate things.    I got the new tires not leaking, on Tuesday, and left for Morro Bay the next day.  That took a 'leap of faith'.
      The employees were all young and not much experience with anything that wasn't a standard car. They spent 25 minutes jacking all four wheels off the ground at once,  about 6", because of some 'absurd' written procedure about spinning the rear wheels after installation, to make sure a tire wheel weight didn't hit the fender. Not exactly an issue on a motorhome! The portable jacks were solid, and the pavement was level, so it was safe to have the parking brake off.  Still made me nervous.
 When I had them fix the dual with my spare extension, I had them put the valves 180 degrees apart on the duals.  RonB

Sorry you had such a problem, Ron. Before I left CA after Morro Bay, I had the 4 rear tires replaced at America's Tire (Discount Tire) in Palo Alto with the new Michelin Agilis Crossclimate (I think that's what you had put on), and the shop there did a great job. Of course I watched the young lads carefully, and they seemed to know what they were doing down to even coming up with the right torque setting. I've used DT for all my tire replacements and have been pleased. BTW, the new Crossclimates gave me a good ride on the trip back to Denver - 65 lbs front and 75 lbs rear. 

Chris

Hi Chris. Yes I liked the ride on the new tires, Agilis CrossClimate and I got better gas mileage too. Maybe just a statistical fluke though. Long term results will tell better. I drove 50's-60's because of construction on I5, and rain.
    This is the third time I've gotten tires at this particular Discount Tire Center and I've always had good service. These three installers were trying to do a good job, and they certainly spent a lot of time with me. As for the tire ages, the manager said "they just click to order six tires" and they get what shows up. They didn't quibble about replacing the two old ones that showed up, with newer ones and ordered 4 for two days later. Of the two newest, one was the same as the four I took, really just two months old, and the other was a week older.  The inexperience level was the issue. I'm sure they learned a lot with me. Perhaps the turnover was high. I didn't ask, but two could have been in their 'teens. Maybe the 'old hands' un-volunteered when they saw the motorhome. But really not much worse than a F350 pickup, crewcab dualie.
     The main point of this for Klaus, is that it isn't as simple as a car, and can be a lot more complex than anyone suspects. One needs to be aware of potential complications. A truck place or one used to working more on RV's, might be better for the uninitiated.   Management of a particular location may be a significant factor.
      I've got more interesting tales from my old '79 Dodge chassis motorhome. How many people remember what the 'L' stamped in the stud end for wheels on the driver side mean? (Hint: passenger side was stamped with an 'R')  And speaking of torque, an astounding 450 foot pounds, and how Ford redesigned the lug-nuts to reduce that to a manageable number. The Dodge had 16.5" wheels, and the rims were stamped 'R' for those new-fangled radial tires. (meant rolled edge).  RonB

I drove 50's-60's because of construction on I5,

RonB,
Ha ha ha.  That is funny.  When I went to Morro Bay in 2019 you went flying by me and I couldnt catch you even running 75-80. At that point, my wife said slow down that fellow is crazy. 

   “My trip to Discount Tires took 6 days to change out 6 tires for the new Agilis Michelin.“

As others have said, it is important to be an informed and observant consumer when engaging tire shops.  It sounds as though your ordeal could have been worse had you not been so observant!

I once had an experience where a better tire shop tried to sell me new tires on the grounds that mine were out of round.  Fortunately, my father co-founded Nortron, Inc. in Mountain View, CA in the mid-1970s.  Nortron made the first electronic spin wheel balancers and, being the son of a founder, I was allowed to use the shop to swap/balance tires & wheels for my high school Hot-Rodding friends.  ...Being familiar with a wheel balancer, I asked the technician (tire salesman), to show me his balancer and demonstrate the out-of-round situation.  Upon inspection, I noticed that he had not mounted the wheel on the balancer properly and as a result was getting the out of round reading.  He sheepishly re-mounted the wheel and went on with his task, under my watchful eye of course....

Warren

Thanks for all the input.

As it turns out the guy from American Custom Tire in Quartzsite who had changed my blown rear inner tire against the spare tire had bent the valve stem of the original tire when he put that tire back into the spare tire compartment. I therefore decided to have all valves replaced with "normal" valves and put on solid valve extenders. This is also what the tire shop recommended and usually does (they handle i. e. all tires for the city and the local mass transit system busses). It looks like before; I think I'm fine.

When driving back home from the tire shop (15 miles on a 65 mph freeway) I had the impression that my new Toyo tires are less noisy than the old Michelin tires. That's nice (though the noise did not really bother me before). I also had the feeling that steering is a bit "easier" than before. That is kind of strange, and it will take probably longer to confirm or dismiss this impression. The old Michelin tires had not even 20,000 miles on them; I replaced them because they were 6 years old and one had blown out in Quartzsite in January.

Klaus

      I've got more interesting tales from my old '79 Dodge chassis motorhome. How many people remember what the 'L' stamped in the stud end for wheels on the driver side mean? (Hint: passenger side was stamped with an 'R')  And speaking of torque, an astounding 450 foot pounds, and how Ford redesigned the lug-nuts to reduce that to a manageable number.

As a teenager, I learned about the "L" the hard way by breaking a wheel stud on my friends 1/2 Dodge ton pickup. I was a lot stronger then and had less sense and experience. Only did it once!
How did you torque the wheel lug nuts to 450 ft/lbs?  Used an eight-foot cheater?  How many own a torque wrench capable of such a high torque setting?
I sure don't.  E450 wheels are torque to 140-ft/lb, hard enough to do with a big 1/2" drive torque wrench.

Larry

Hi Larry.    About a 4' cheater. Impact wrench, six point socket.  My work then involved a lot of upper body strength, 7 hour a day, and concrete work at night at home. Mixed about 500 90# bags of redimix in a wheelbarrow in 6 months.   I certainly didn't have to worry about breaking off a stud. (5/8" IIRC). A friend also with a Dodge had warned me about the L/R threads. I painted the ends of the studs on the driver side red, and made sure the 'L' was visible. That high amount of torque was needed to flex the 'skirt' of the large diameter lug nut, which is what kept it tight. About 1-1/2".  My welder friend replaced my flimsy rear bumper, and welded on a receiver, with a support between the frame to protect the 77 gallon gas tank. We added a channel to mount a spare tire.  I bought a wheel and used tire, and used one 'R' stud, and one 'L' stud with matching nuts to hold it on, for spare studs and nuts. They were getting hard to find then in '88.  The spline at the base of the studs was pulled into the 3" channel, with some spacer washers. I torqued that up to 150 or so FP, so you had to have a good wrench to get the nuts off. Nobody stole the spare!  16.5" tires were hard to find in 2000, when I sold the motorhome to a friend.   RonB

Hi Parussky;   Are you sure that was me?   I almost never go over 72, and my GPS is my standard.  Maybe it was downhill?  The fastest was 85 on 15 near Baker. Closed down to one lane for about 30 miles of repaving coming back from Las Vegas. I didn't want to be the guy holding up hundreds of big rigs all doing 85 mph!.    Generally I stay around 64 to 68mph, depending on traffic and conditions.  Emergency handling not great at speed.     RonB

   We added a channel to mount a spare tire.  I bought a wheel and used tire, and used one 'R' stud, and one 'L' stud with matching nuts to hold it on, for spare studs and nuts.

Trying to remove the left-handed nut would stop 99% of thieves, it's something you rarely see in any application with the exception of the nuts used to secure conventional front wheel bearings. The left side of many vehicles will use a left-handed nut for adjusting the wheel bearing's play.

Larry

The only problem I had with my LD valve extenders was they were rubbing on the hole in the wheel and that was cutting through the outside of the extender.  I was not sure if it might break if I tried to bend it closer to the middle of the hole in the wheel so I taped something around it.

My SOB had a valve extender with the check valve  pin coming to far out.  I had the extender replaced at a tire shop.  Drove to next camping spot, stayed six night to find a flat tire due to replacement  extender failing.

I was told by the tire repair guy who removed the extender at my campsite that extenders failing is fairly common source of repairs needed.  I think the angled outlet of my tire pump should allow me to inflate the tires without having extenders, but have not done this much so far.

The only problem I had with my LD valve extenders was they were rubbing on the hole in the wheel and that was cutting through the outside of the extender.  I was not sure if it might break if I tried to bend it closer to the middle of the hole in the wheel so I taped something around it.

I've had this issue with the long straight valve stems from a Borg kit.  The wheel simulators move over time and end up rubbing on the stems.  Mine haven't rubbed through, but there are wear spots. 

When life gets back to normal, I need to buy new tires and I plan to replace the 2 long stems.  I'd like to avoid buying an entire kit of 4 (2 long, 2 curved), but I haven't had an luck with that.

Wheel simulators (in my case) rubbing on the Borg valve stems.  It's something to be aware of.

Rich
'03 MB in NC

Determining which tire airing set up is being referred to can be difficult, particularly when the terms used to identify the two 'air point' systems are freely interchanged by manufacturers, vendors, and owners. The 'best system to check and air the tires' topic has been discussed many times; several years' worth of relevant posts can be found by using the 'Search' feature.

https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?action=search

'Extenders' - Rubber hoses, usually encased in stainless steel mesh, that attach to the OEM valves in each of the dual rear wheels. The 'air fill' end of the hose extender presents to the outside of the wheel, and the hose end is usually attached to the wheel cover 'hub' with a bracket. Example:

Wheel Masters 8002 Stainless Steel Valve Extenders 16" to 19.5" Wheels Hub Mount (https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Stainless-Steel-Valve-Extenders-2-Hose-Kit-p/92-9242.htm)

'Long valves' - Solid valves, brass or stainless steel, which replace the OEM valve and set into the wheel. The valve for the outside dual is configured in a 'U' shape; the 'air' end presents to the outside of the wheel for easy tire airing.  The valve for the inside dual is straight and about 4" long; this valve goes from the inner dual wheel through the outer dual so the 'air' end is easily accessible with any air chuck.

Duallyvalve Kits for Ford, GM, Dodge - Class C (https://yourtireshopsupply.com/category/796_828/ford-dodge-class)

Wheel covers for LDs up to 2007 models were 'bolt on', KII badged, manufactured by Kaper; replacement parts are available from them. I suggest calling and talking with the customer service person to make sure that one gets the correct parts.

KII WHEEL SIMULATORS (https://www.kaperii.com/wheelsimulators)

Many, if not most, owners of pre-2007 LDs with KII wheel covers have needed to enlarge/elongate the wheel cover holes where the long valves come through; it can be difficult to adjust the long valves to present through the relatively small holes in the wheel cover without contacting and edge of the hole and possibly damaging the long valve. Re-shaping the hole in the wheel cover is done with a plasma cutter, or more commonly, with a 'Dremel' or something similar. (Stainless steel is hard to cut!)

Post-2007 models have 'push on' wheel covers. These wheel covers tend to 'migrate' around the rim, and will cut through a long valve. An obvious 'first line of defense' preventive measure is to check the position of the wheel covers frequently.  It's also a good idea to slip a piece of 3/8" inside diameter plastic tubing over each long valve.

The other alternative to prevent the wheel covers from cutting through the long valves is to ditch the wheel covers; perhaps naked wheels are not aesthetically pleasing, but the long valves will not be sawed off.

A note (redux, redux...) on tire replacement on wheels with long valves installed:

A conscientious installer in a reliable shop can replace a tire without removing the long valves from the wheel. Many don't want to do this because it takes a little more time, and a good deal more care, and requires that the installer know what s/he is doing and not slam the bejeezus out of the wheel and tire when plopping it on the tire mounting machine!

An owner can mitigate the outcome of the tire changing procedure by discussing the issues involved in making sure that the long valves are not damaged (snapped off, removed, tweaked, cut) with the shop before the job is done. The owner should remove the wheel covers before taking the rig to the shop; this is particularly important with rigs with bolt-on wheel covers. It's rare that a shop will know how to remove and replace these correctly! An owner might also want to ask to 'supervise' the job (if possible) and definitely insist on checking the installation before paying and leaving.

YMMV, as always. Good luck. 

The only problem I had with my LD valve extenders was they were rubbing on the hole in the wheel and that was cutting through the outside of the extender. 

This is a common problem in pre-2007 LD, the stainless steel covers do not always lineup perfectly to allow the extender to pass through the hole without touching. As Joan mentioned, the holes can be opened up to provide clearance.
I use either a Dremel, with a drum sander, or a pneumatic die grinder, with a carbide burr, to quickly and cleanly remove a small amount of metal.
If a wheel is removed, the brass extenders possibly can carefully be bent, preferably after being removed from the wheel first. A hand-held tubing bender tool works well.
Titan 180 Degree Tubing Bender — Model# 11489 | Northern Tool (https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200798135_200798135?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Hand%20Tools%20%3E%20Pliers&utm_campaign=Titan&utm_content=254046&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx6vFhoH16AIVEdlkCh2l6QEfEAQYAiABEgKAIvD_BwE)
Truck tire shops have been bending soft brass stems for around a hundred years, ever since duals became popular.

Slipping short pieces of 3/8" clear vinyl tubing (found it at Lowes) over the extender where it passes the sharp edge provides even more protection in case something should shift.

The same fix applies to the flexible hose extenders that some stiil use. Slip short lengths of plastic tubing over the hose where they pass through the cover. Use small, fuel line hose clamps to hold the tubing in position if needed.
Flexible hose can loosen where they connect to the valve stem, check them regularly.
Hoses can work if taken care of, both of our LDs used hoses, the 2003 was changed to the extended brass stems when the original set of tires were replaced.

In any case, a TPMS is a good idea to detect leaks and provides a little peace of mind knowing all is well with the tires's air pressure. A leaking or completely flat rear tire is difficult to feel and can lead to its sister dual tire to overheat and a blowout, leaving you with two flat tires and only one spare...whoops. Preventing one bad day is worth the cost of a TPMS, IMO

Larry

Modifying the wheel cover hole and protecting the stem or, bending the Borg stem both sound like good ideas - wish I had checked the companion for that . 

Installing TST TPMS flow-through pressure sensor/sender devices on my 2019 MB was challenging because the oblong sensor/sender did not clear the valve stem hole in the wheel cover.  Not having considered grinding, I took out my rubber mallet and "massaged" the cover gently to create sufficient clearance for the sensor/sender. 

I'm considering replacing the covers with Alcoa Dura-Bright wheels and have read the salient posts on the LD Companion, most notably application of anti-seizing compound between the rear outer Aluminum wheel and the inner steel wheel.  I found a price of $1,350 for four wheels, axle covers & nuts at BuyTruckWheels.com 

Any advice on making the switch?  in particular, are my Borg long valve stems and TPMS sensors likely to work on Alcoa's? 

Warren

A follow-up note for anyone considering the Michelin Agilis Cross-Climate tires. 

They are directional, meaning there is an arrow showing the direction they are supposed to rotate while moving forward.

This isn't a huge deal, but it limits your ability to rotate the tires between the drivers and passengers side, as some like to do.  It could also cause an issue if you have one as a spare.

I have no idea what happens if you run the tire in the wrong direction.  It would probably (maybe?) be fine in dry condition for a short period of time.

Rich
'03 MB in NC
 

Rich,

This is very interesting. It reminds me of high end audio/video cables where it is important to maintain the cables direction between components.

From what I understand, the electrons passing through the cables create a ‘one direction only’ passage way. If the cables are later changed to pass electrons in the opposite direction, distortion will result in the audio/video signals.

This makes me wonder if a similar thing will be occurring in the tires you mentioned. Perhaps the inner tire cords react differently to heat and ware with the new design. Tires are actually very complex . https://youtu.be/K474RYse9P8

I agree these tires would certainly complicate RV enthusiasts tire rotation especially if they have the long valve stems installed on the dually’s.

Kent

There are two Michelin Agilis Cross Climate tires; the "C" (not to be confused with a C-load rated tire) and the LT version. As far as I know, the LT Agilis is not a directional tire. This page may clarify the differences:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Agilis+CrossClimate&width=225%2F&ratio=75&diameter=16&cameFrom=selectSize&partnum=275R6ACCV2

Why Michelin labeled these two different tires with essentially the same name I have no idea, but I suggest contacting Michelin for complete information and preferred application before buying one or the other.

YMMV, as always.

Buyer beware - that is confusing and I didn't realize the difference previously.  Thanks for pointing that out!

In fact, Costco shows the same picture for both tires on their website, obscuring the fact that the tread patterns are clearly different. 

Curiously, TireRack shows the max load for the 225/75R16C 121/120R (the directional tire) to be 3195 lbs  @ 83psi.

They show the max load for the LT225/75R16 115/112R E (the non-directional or symmetrical tire) to be 2680 lbs @ 90psi.

The Michelin website shows the same, if you scroll down to the available versions, select 16" rim, and then pick the correct tire (Michelin # 70411 for the directional tire and Michelin #72022 for the symmetrical version). Michelin Agilis CrossClimate Tires | Michelin (https://www.michelinman.com/tires/cross-climate/agilis-crossclimate.html)

This leaves me with no idea what the proper inflation level should be for my new tires.  I can't find an inflation table on the Michelin website and I'll have to wait until tomorrow for their tech support line to be open.

Thanks, Joan, for pointing out the difference.

Rich
'03 MB in NC

Buyer beware - that is confusing and I didn't realize the difference previously.  Thanks for pointing that out!

In fact, Costco shows the same picture for both tires on their website, obscuring the fact that the tread patterns are clearly different. 

Curiously, TireRack shows the max load for the 225/75R16C 121/120R (the directional tire) to be 3195 lbs  @ 83psi.

They show the max load for the LT225/75R16 115/112R E (the non-directional or symmetrical tire) to be 2680 lbs @ 90psi.

The Michelin website shows the same, if you scroll down to the available versions, select 16" rim, and then pick the correct tire (Michelin # 70411 for the directional tire and Michelin #72022 for the symmetrical version). Michelin Agilis CrossClimate Tires | Michelin (https://www.michelinman.com/tires/cross-climate/agilis-crossclimate.html)

This leaves me with no idea what the proper inflation level should be for my new tires.  I can't find an inflation table on the Michelin website and I'll have to wait until tomorrow for their tech support line to be open.

Thanks, Joan, for pointing out the difference.

Rich
'03 MB in NC

Rich, let us know what you find out. I have 4 new CC LTs on the rear of my LD.

Chris

"From what I understand, the electrons passing through the cables create a 'one direction only' passage way."

I have my doubts about this for two reasons. (Yes, I know I'm going off topic here. Sorry!)

1. Audio signals are AC; that is, they change polarity thousands of times a second. Since the flow of electrons is constantly changing direction, there can be no "one way" effect.

2. Even if the current through a cable is DC, are we to believe that copper can be turned into a diode (a 'one direction only' conductor) by simply sending DC through it? I know of no evidence for this. (Yes, I know about copper-oxide diodes, but that's a different case. There should be no oxidation in an audio cable.)

In short, this one-way cable idea sounds like the kind of nonsense that manufacturers dream up to sell overpriced audio gear. Just my hunch. ;-)

And now back to tires...

The Lazy Daze Owner's Manual has a chart showing the recommended pressures, based on axle weights.
All LT225/75R-16 tires, in load range E, use the same pressures, regardless of brand.
Here is Michelin's RV tire pressure chart.
http://www.rvtirepressure.com/assets/images/extrapages/Michelin_Rv_Load_Inflation.pdf

Larry

I'll have to support Andy on this off topic reply. Copper, or any other conductor doesn't care about the direction of electron flow. The physics of 'current flow' is a lot more complicated than the metaphor of water flowing in a pipe.  Marketing hype.
    More on topic, remote tire sensors located in tires are protected from outside disturbances pretty well.  I have a 13 year old vehicle that still has two of it's 5 wheel pressure sensors still working with original batteries. Costco charged about $60 per wheel to change out three of them. They were in stock and a common item.  RonB

Regarding the wheel covers movement of clip on simulators, Todd recommended purchasing the stud extender to maintain the covers position and thereby eliminating damage to the valve stems.

Here’s as pic of what they look like.

Kent

Regarding the wheel covers movement of clip on simulators, Todd recommended purchasing the stud extender to maintain the covers position and thereby eliminating damage to the valve stems.

Here’s as pic of what they look like.

Kent

Kent, do you have a photo with the wheel cover on?

Chris

In my year of Ford wheel studs, '99, they were long enough not to need extenders, so the simulators don't budge.  I think the studs got shorter in 2000, so the extenders added another layer of complexity to fasten the simulators down. About 2016 the simulators just snap on now?   RonB

Rich,

This is very interesting. It reminds me of high end audio/video cables where it is important to maintain the cables direction between components.From what I understand, the electrons passing through the cables create a ‘one direction only’ passage way. If the cables are later changed to pass electrons in the opposite direction, distortion will result in the audio/video signals.

Kent

Are high-end A/V cable marked indicating direction of flow?
Just wondering.

Larry

There are two Michelin Agilis Cross Climate tires; the "C" (not to be confused with a C-load rated tire) and the LT version. As far as I know, the LT Agilis is not a directional tire. This page may clarify the differences:

Having just purchased 7 Agilis LT tires, installed, I can verify they are NOT directional. However, America's Tire did not record the DOT numbers, which are needed to register the tires with Michelin for recall purposes. However, the date-code part of the DOT number is only on ONE side of the tire. Make certain to record these BEFORE installation! I can verify that it is impossible to read them on installed duallies if not on the exposed side.

Steve

I found the updated inflation tables.  The key was to look on the Michelin RV Tires website (Michelin RV Tires | A Better Way Forward (https://www.michelinrvtires.com/)) and not the regular website.

Michelin RV Tires | View Michelin RV Tires load and inflation tables for... (https://www.michelinrvtires.com/reference-materials/load-and-inflation-tables/#/)

I copied the portions relating to the 2 tires we're discussing here.

First, the directional C-Metric tire with Load Range 121

Second, the symmetrical LT tire with load range 115 that is very close to the M/S 2 that has been a popular choice for years.

As you can see, there are some differences.  The C-Metric directional tires have a higher Load Rating and so they carry slightly more load at the same PSI when compared to the LTs.  It's not a huge difference, but I think it adds a nice margin of safety. 

From my reading, they added more Nylon to the sidewalls of the C-Metrics, making them something of a middle ground between the LT's and XPS-Ribs. 

Now to dig out the numbers from the last time I had my RV weighed.  I think I'm looking at a PSI drop of 8lbs or so in the front and rears.

Rich
'03 MB in NC

For anyone searching the archives and considering Michelin CrossClimate tires.  Here is the information I wish was available when I was buying.  It's everything a dedicated tire nerd would want to know about the reasons behind the new odd looking design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT2odY3C6Og&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained


Does it matter for RVs?  I think it depends on how you use your rig.  Most of us don't run RV tires down to the wear limits, so that part might not be as important to us.  If you only use your rig in the summer, winter performance might not matter as much to you.  If you find yourself crossing a mountain pass early or late in the season, or use the RV as a base for outdoor winter sports, you might really appreciate the better cold-weather performance. 

Either way, it's fun (for me, anyway) to learn a little more about the tires on my rig.

Rich

The Michelin Cross Climate is available in LT225/75R/16, load range E, but I didn't see (on the Michelin site or on Tire Rack) that the Cross Climate 2 with the V-tread is available in the appropriate light truck size and load range for the Ford E450.

?

The Michelin Cross Climate is available in LT225/75R/16, load range E, but I didn't see (on the Michelin site or on Tire Rack) that the Cross Climate 2 with the V-tread is available in the appropriate light truck size and load range for the Ford E450.

?

It is confusing. 

I don't know if the CrossClimate 2 is available for the e450. 

Some guessing here....

The Agelis CrossClimate C-Metric seems to take the CrossClimate idea/technology/philosophy described in the video and applies it to a truck tire.  The sidewalls are quite different, which I think is additional strength/reinforcement.

Michelin lists the CrossClimate C-metric as Load range E in some places. (click tire specs, then select 275/75R/16C) 
Tire & Retread Selector | Michelin Truck (https://www.michelintruck.com/tires-and-retreads/selector/info/agilis-crossclimate-c=metric)

In other places they seem to use the european load rating of 121/120.  Perhaps this is why 3rd party sites don't always show them as Load Range E. 

More on the european spec here: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=312

I _think_ the 121/120 spec is rated for slightly more load than Load Range E, which is reflected in the inflation tables (first link above, then Load and Pressure, then the tire size). 

Michelin could be clearer on all of this, for sure.

Rich


 

I had a slow leak in one of my extenders from not being held in the center of the wheel hole, and rubbing on the wheel.  So I ordered some rubber grommets from BORG which keep the extended valve stem centered.
I also have had great service from Ramon’s Commercial Tire Shop in San Jose. They specialize in trucks and RV’s

"I had a slow leak in one of my extenders from not being held in the center of the wheel hole, and rubbing on the wheel.  So I ordered some rubber grommets from BORG which keep the extended valve stem centered."
---
I can't say for sure, of course, but it appears that your long valves were not installed correctly in the first place, i.e., using the rubber grommets (supplied in the kit) placed in the wheel hole to support the long inside dual valves as they present to the outside. I've heard several reports of this happening when an installer doesn't read the instructions and leaves the support grommets in the box.

Over the past several years, I've posted multiple times on "long valves" ; here's a link to some of them:

https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?action=search;sa=results

Quite few owners have also posted on this topic, and I suggest doing a search for a wide variety of experiences.

YMMV, as always.

Is this the Tireman extenders we are talking about?

Greg

Here is the link for the company I used to purchase Borg Tire Valves.  I have no affiliation with this company other than purchasing their products.  As Joan says "the post's on this topic are endless".

BORG Equipment & Supply Corp. Inc. - Automotive Equipment & Supplies (https://yourtireshopsupply.com/manufacturer/38/borg-equipment)

Best upgrade I ever made.  Checking tire pressure is no longer a dredged task.

Tony R. (aka codefour)

Thanks, Tony. The original owner of Bossa Nova actually had the Tireman valve extenders installed just after he took delivery in June of 2017. It was probably one of the last jobs Tireman did before retiring as he met David in the parking lot of the Kmart in Ridgecrest to make the purchase of the extenders, and then led him to a local tire shop to install them.

 The reason I ask the question is that one of the extenders is rubbing on the side of the wheel access hole and I’m wondering if there’s a way to center it in the hole, after the fact.

This is a photo of one of my tires with the Borg Valve, and the Rubber Centering Insert installed.

Mentioned before numerous times in the Forum before, "my shop also did not read the instructions," and on the first go did not install the Rubber Insert (hence the valve was very near the steel hole in the wheel/simulator.  Many tire installers have not seen such a device.

After installing the Rubber insert - all of the stems were aligned nearly perfectly. it is a MUST install item  and perhaps you can just purchase that part(s) from The Tire Store in the previous link.  And the nice part about this particular store, a real live person is usually available to speak with for direction and advise.

Cheers!

Tony R (aka codefour)

"one of the extenders is rubbing on the side of the wheel access hole and I'm wondering if there's a way to center it in the hole"
---
Is the long valve rubbing against the hole in the wheel or the hole in the wheel cover"?

If the valve (you're referring the long valve from the inside dual, yes?) was installed with the grommet, i.e., the grommet set firm into the hole in the wheel and the valve centered through the hole in the grommet, the valve should not touch the wheel hole at all. (Ditto for the outside dual's valve, despite it not requiring a grommet.)

The snap-on wheel covers in later models (I think these came on 2007 models; they may be the same as on later model years.) can and do migrate around the wheel, and they will cut through a long valve. If the valve is positioned correctly in the wheel (this is critical), you have a choice of enlarging the holes in the wheel cover (stainless steel, so it takes work with a Dreml or grinder, or a plasma cutter), ditching the wheel covers altogether, or slipping a short "sleeve" of 3/8" plastic tubing over the valve and paying very close attention to wheel cover migration.

Even on my 2003 with the "nutted" wheel covers, it was necessary to enlarge the holes in the wheel cover to prevent the valve from being chafed or cut.

LED | Washington | Kaper II - HOME (https://www.kaperii.com/) (KII) was the manufacturer of the wheel covers used on LDs for many years; if they still are, you might try contacting them for suggestions.

I guess I need to pop the wheel cover off and take a closer look but this is how it looks from the outside. The passenger side is the one that is rubbing on the wheel cover. The driver side looks OK.

To check the air on the passenger side I’ve been pulling the stem away from the wheel cover slightly so I can get the air nozzle or tire gauge on, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to check it.

Greg

Congrats on the beautiful new coach!  Your perseverance paid off.

I wonder whether the valve stem or it’s rubber mounting plug may not be seated properly in the rim. Either that or, as Joan suggests, the wheel cover is not seated properly on the rim.

Let us know what you find out.

Warren

When I enlarged the photo Greg,  it appears that you already have the rubber grommets installed on the wheels.

Are these valves rubber?  I cant tell by the photo.

I originally had rubber valves installed on the dual tires, and replaced them with Borg brass/chrome valve stems (with the grommets).  Actually I installed new Borg Valves on all tires.

I am told that the Borg Valves can be bent slightly to better fit the center of the hole by an experienced installer.

Good luck! And yes you have a great looking LD.

Cheers!

Tony R (aka codefour)

I am told that the Borg Valves can be bent slightly to better fit the center of the hole by an experienced installer.

Brass stems can be bent to fit, best done before the stem is installed. Bending a stem while installed may damage the stem's rubber seals, causing a leak.

Larry

For anyone searching the archives and considering Michelin CrossClimate tires.  Here is the information I wish was available when I was buying.  It's everything a dedicated tire nerd would want to know about the reasons behind the new odd looking design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT2odY3C6Og&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained

With the asymmetrical tread design that must rotate in one direction only, tire rotation is going to a problem if running stem extenders.

Larry

'Extenders' - Rubber hoses, usually encased in stainless steel mesh, that attach to the OEM valves in each of the dual rear wheels. The 'air fill' end of the hose extender presents to the outside of the wheel, and the hose end is usually attached to the wheel cover 'hub' with a bracket. Example:

Wheel Masters 8002 Stainless Steel Valve Extenders 16" to 19.5" Wheels Hub Mount (https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Stainless-Steel-Valve-Extenders-2-Hose-Kit-p/92-9242.htm)

A conscientious installer in a reliable shop can replace a tire without removing the long valves from the wheel. Many don't want to do this because it takes a little more time, and a good deal more care, and requires that the installer know what s/he is doing and not slam the bejeezus out of the wheel and tire when plopping it on the tire mounting machine!

An owner can mitigate the outcome of the tire changing procedure by discussing the issues involved in making sure that the long valves are not damaged (snapped off, removed, tweaked, cut) with the shop before the job is done. The owner should remove the wheel covers before taking the rig to the shop; this is particularly important with rigs with bolt-on wheel covers. It's rare that a shop will know how to remove and replace these correctly! An owner might also want to ask to 'supervise' the job (if possible) and definitely insist on checking the installation before paying and leaving.

YMMV, as always. Good luck. 

I realize this thread is a bit old, but I'm going to reply anyway. I have two questions.

Joan, thank you for that very informative post! Do you have trouble with tire shops because you're a woman? My problem has been I'm talking to the guy in the front office, but it's the guys in the shop that are doing the repairs. How does one supervise in the shop?

I'm learning more about extenders than I ever wanted to know. What are the four little items to which the arrow points in the attached screenshot of the Wheel Masters Stainless Steel Valve Extenders?

"What are the four little items to which the arrow..."

Those are 'Pop Rivets', used to secure the brackets to the wheel cover. A special tool is required.

Just my opinion but one which many forum members would agree with, use solid extended valve stems instead of the flexible extenders which will give you grief over time.  ;)

"What are the four little items to which the arrow..."

Those are 'Pop Rivets', used to secure the brackets to the wheel cover. A special tool is required.

Just my opinion but one which many forum members would agree with, use solid extended valve stems instead of the flexible extenders which will give you grief over time.  ;)

Thank you for the answer, Steve.

Yes, I've been reading here about the extenders. I just replaced the old flexible extenders with new flexible extenders and am having trouble already. Sigh. When I get home, I'll get a shop I trust to install the solid extender valve stems. On my way from the winter in Tucson (lovely!) back to Idaho (still cold...brrr).

-Judy

Just my opinion but one which many forum members would agree with, use solid extended valve stems instead of the flexible extenders which will give you grief over time.  ;)

Very much so, especially if you use a TPMS system.  You want solid, supported single piece extended valve stems.

Judy, this is the appropriate long valve kit for the wheel configuration on your 2003:

DL1E Brass Duallvalve Kit (https://yourtireshopsupply.com/product/274/dl1e-brass-duallyvalve-dl1e)

It's critical that the tech read the installation instructions carefully and use all the parts in the kit! The large rubber grommets are fitted into a hole in the outside dual to provide support for the long valve coming from the inside dual through that hole. Not reading and following the installation instructions can lead to the these rubber discs being left in the box or thrown out because the installer was unaware of their purpose. Yes, this happens. (RTFM!)

I think that condescension and patronizing attitudes from mechanic/repair/tire/other shops (the 'Don't worry, little lady' crap) are less common than in past years, but I agree that some women (and some men!) can still occasionally experience this from service managers and techs.

A business has a responsibility to treat all customers with respect, honesty, and fairness, but the customer also has the responsibility to educate himself/herself on what's involved in the services/repairs/installations desired before talking with a service writer; a poorly informed customer, man or woman, i.e., one who doesn't understand what's needed, doesn't ask questions that demonstrate that understanding, and doesn't check the job before leaving, is a liability to himself/herself.

Additionally, a good shop will expect communication between the person who writes up the order and the person/people who are doing the actual work, and the customer needs to be involved in this process; if candid, open communication is absent, I suggest looking for a different shop.

If/when one finds a shop or mechanic/tech that performs skilled, conscientious work, establish a relationship with the people with the pen and the wrenches and recommend them to others.

As ever, YMMV.

. . I think that condescension and patronizing attitudes from mechanic/repair/tire/other shops (the 'Don't worry, little lady' crap) are less common than in past years, but I agree that some women (and some men!) can still occasionally experience this from service managers and techs. . .

Joan,  if anyone trys to pull that on you,  can I sell tickets and popcorn?
 ;)
Joel

Joan,  if anyone trys to pull that on you,  can I sell tickets and popcorn?
 ;)
Joel

I’m sure whomever tries that with Joan will regret doing so.

Larry

Judy, this is the appropriate long valve kit for the wheel configuration on your 2003:

DL1E Brass Duallvalve Kit (https://yourtireshopsupply.com/product/274/dl1e-brass-duallyvalve-dl1e)

It's critical that the tech read the installation instructions carefully and use all the parts in the kit! The large rubber grommets are fitted into a hole in the outside dual to provide support for the long valve coming from the inside dual through that hole. Not reading and following the installation instructions can lead to the these rubber discs being left in the box or thrown out because the installer was unaware of their purpose. Yes, this happens. (RTFM!)

I think that condescension and patronizing attitudes from mechanic/repair/tire/other shops (the 'Don't worry, little lady' crap) are less common than in past years, but I agree that some women (and some men!) can still occasionally experience this from service managers and techs.

A business has a responsibility to treat all customers with respect, honesty, and fairness, but the customer also has the responsibility to educate himself/herself on what's involved in the services/repairs/installations desired before talking with a service writer; a poorly informed customer, man or woman, i.e., one who doesn't understand what's needed, doesn't ask questions that demonstrate that understanding, and doesn't check the job before leaving, is a liability to himself/herself.

Additionally, a good shop will expect communication between the person who writes up the order and the person/people who are doing the actual work, and the customer needs to be involved in this process; if candid, open communication is absent, I suggest looking for a different shop.

If/when one finds a shop or mechanic/tech that performs skilled, conscientious work, establish a relationship with the people with the pen and the wrenches and recommend them to others.

As ever, YMMV.

Thank you, Joan, for your very informative reply. And I love the responses! Reading your posts, I suspected that was the case.

Today, I had a much better experience with the tire shop here in Kingman. Of course, after reading many posts on the Forum last night, I was much better informed. I went in knowing what I want done and how I want it done.

I have a good relationship with a shop at home. The two brothers who own it even came out to my house in the country once to fix a tire they had installed. I will definitely get the extenders you recommend and work with those guys to get them installed. I'm so tired of worrying about those tires!

Recommendations for a TPMS system? I think that will help relieve the stress, also.

One silver lining to this whole fiasco is I learned the ages-old Black & Decker air compressor my late husband included in the "must-haves in an RV" actually works and works very well! Blessings abound.

-Judy