My 2017 Mid-Bath is less than three years old. I have AGM batteries. I am camping and have electric. However, suddenly my Lazy Daze read-out panel has my batteries as “weak.” My solar panel has the batteries at around 9 volts. My LED lights are very dim. I now switched my refrigerator onto propane. What is the problem and how do I solve this? I have been running a small Polaris heater for a few hours each day. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Monica
Monica - so you are on electric hookup but you’re batteries are being run low.
Questions:
What was the first time you noticed the batteries were low and what was it before then (eg were they high before the camping trip and have gone down each day of the trip, or they were fine yesterday on the trip but went down suddenly overnight).
Are you truly getting electricity into your LD, you’re power center (and then to the batteries)?
I would check that issue first as even with no battery your lights should be strong if you are getting electricity into your coach & power center.
Is your converter/charger running? Is that breaker in your power center turned on?
Having a volt meter can confirm your hookup is giving good voltage. Check the breakers at the pole and at your LD breakers are good.
If you don’t have a volt meter check with the cam host or a fellow camper to see if they can offer help/loan you a volt meter.
Jane
Jane,
I hadn’t paid much attention to the displays and although I think the volts may have been slightly lower the last couple of days. I started to have the problems today. I do have electricity and a surge protector. I have a volt meter and it is okay. I don’t know how to tell if my converter is charging. I don’t know how to tell if the breaker in the power center is turned on? How do I tell?
Thanks for your help.
Monica
If the lights are dim and the solar panel indicates 9-volts, the converter isn’t charging the battery. Normally, even a bad battery will show 12-volts if the converter is doing its job.
The converter’s 120-volt circuit breaker is located in the Power Center, usually the second breaker from the left.
While checking the breaker, see if you can hear the converter humming, it’s located in the bottom half of the Power Center.
The converter should have two plug in fuses on the 12-volt side that need to be checked.
Beyond that, having and knowing how to use a voltmeter would provide more information.
Larry
Monica,
We have a ‘15 and your power center most likely resembles ours. Here are pics of ours.
Turning the converter/charger breaker off (downward) then on (upward) may help.
If that doesn’t help, perhaps the campground power pedestal is not turned on or the LD power cord is not connected completely to either the pedestal or the rig itself.
Kent
Monica,
Kent gave you some pictures. What he is showing you is located behind a black (probably plastic) panel. Likely located just inside your entry way (on the "hallway" side), in the general area of your outside battery location (on the outside of the rig).
To check breakers, flip them (one at a time) all the way down, wait a few seconds, then flip the back up (should be strong snap sound/feel when you do this). If the converter/charger one is clearly marked, just do that one and also the main one. You can see in Kent's first picture, they are clearly marked under the breaker which one is what.
As Larry said, the converter/charger can hum (the fan noise), but depending on your model of power center you may / may not hear the hum (some models louder and run all the time, others quieter and go on and off as needed). Off the top of my head, the 75 AMP converter charger runs all the time, the 50 amp does not. You can see in Kent's middle picture this converter charger AMPs are listed.
Basic trouble shooting, start at the shore power post and use your multi-meter to confirm there is 120V power there. Then follow the path of electricity until you get to something that is not working correctly. However... I don't suggest the type of testing I would do unless the person is familiar with voltmeters and both familiar with and comfortable with electricity (including live 30 amp wires).
So, if the breaker reset didn't work and you are not sure if you can hear your converter/charger humming, check that the electricity is getting inside your coach (e.g. thru the surge protector and connection points and thru the power center) by testing an outlet to confirm you have 120V there. Make sure it is an outlet that doesn't have an inverter on it (assuming no whole coach inverter) and you can also flip down (wait a few seconds) then flip back up that outlet breaker just in case.
If the outlet tests at 120V, then something is going on between the power center (where all the breakers and fuses are) and the battery. I don't have the brand power center you have, but if the problem area is there hopefully you can call the technical support department and get some assistance.
If the outlet doesn't test at 120V, then something is going on between the power center and the shore post. I am guessing your surge protector is portable (not an hardwired EMS), and you could take it off to confirm that it is not causing a problem.
As Kent suggested, make sure your electric wire is plugged securely into the RV outlet (you should have the removable cord, not the one that is always attached that the older models have) and into the shore power outlet.
If the outlet still shows no power, I would suggest testing the main breaker in the power center, which means you need to have the knowledge of how to test a breaker (with live 30 amp electricity). I would see if someone else in the park knows how to do this if you are not familiar/comfortable with doing this.
Jane
The converter should have two plug in fuses on the 12-volt side that need to be checked.
Larry
Larry,
I initially took (maybe wrongly so) your statement above to mean there were fuses for the converter on the dc side of the panel. However, Kent's pictures didn't show fuses for the converter in his panel and we don't have any (but we have a different brand).
Do you mean a fuse/breaker between the power center & the battery that might need checking?
Or fuses on the converter itself?
Or maybe the mystery breakers/fuses discussed in another thread?
Or is it fuses in the DC part of the panel that maybe didn't show in Kent's picture.
Curious minds want to know. :D
Jane
Sorry that I didn’t make myself clear. I’ve been plugged into electric for six days and all electric appliances continue to work. There has not been a problem with the AC. The problem is with the battery. It was just yesterday that I noticed the battery having gone down to 9 volts. This is when the LED lights dimmed. This morning I flipped the converter switch off and on. Now I don’t know if the solar or the converter is slowly charging the battery. The readout now is 9.4 volt. The sun is up and I don’t know if it is the solar or the converter that is charging. Neither I nor Calicia Hardin who is with me can hear the fan. The converter owner operation guide states, “The fan turns on automatically when required to cool the electronic components of the converter. The amount of airflow required is necessary to properly cool the converter components and the associated ‘air sound’ generated MAY BE [emphasis added] audible in quiet environments.” Is there anything I can do today to determine whether it is the solar or the converter charging? Thank you for all your help.
Monica
A minor point regarding converter/charger Hum. In contrast to our previous, 2015 LD TK, I noticed that our 2019 MBhas no converter hum. Per Todd at Lazy Daze, the factory changed converter model to one that doesn’t hum. I did not ask which model year this change took place, however.
Warren
Monica, you might want to check with the RV park for a reference for a reliable mobile tech or a local RV service place. Without using a voltmeter to test each potential trouble spot and isolate the problem, a solution and fix are guesswork. :(
"Now I don't know if the solar or the converter is slowly charging the battery. The readout now is 9.4 volt."
If either the converter or the solar power system were charging, the battery voltage would be well above 12 volts. So you still don't know. I second what others have said: you need a multimeter and somebody who knows their way around RV electrical systems.
Things to keep in mind: even when running on propane, your fridge needs 12 V power for its controller board. You are at a point now where the fridge is likely to stop operating, if it hasn't already. And the longer your batteries stay at 9 V, the more likely they are to be damaged. You need to get this fixed right now.
Monica - there are so many things that could be the problem, that is why you are not getting a clear answer.
On shore power or generator you can have absolutely dead batteries and have 12v fixtures working great,
The fact your 12v fixtures are having problems while on shore power indicates there is a not so easy problem.
Again I suggest a call to the manufacturer of your charger/converter technical support department to see why it stopped powering 12v (maybe a broken relay or something else), they may have some trouble shooting you could do on it. However the problem could be wire connections or other things not just the converter/controller box itself.
Depending on how your solar is connected (to the power center or directly to the battery, I don’t know how newer LDs are wired) with good sunlight and no charging you may have a second problem occurring.
As Andy said your batteries at 9v are having serious problems - you might disconnect them to save what is left but they might already be shot
Jane
On my last trip to Yosemite, I was dealing with my ageing AGM batteries. To try and resolve the issue while in camp, I turned off the breakers, pulled the fuse to the solar panels at the power center. I ALSO turned off my Battery Cutoff Switch in the battery compartment.
Then I removed the battery chassis ground wire and cleaned the connections. After that, I put the Solar Array fuse back in and turned the breakers in the power center back on. All of a sudden I heard strange beeps coming from the solar display panel and saw lights blinking and odd stuff (I posted this previously at the time it happened).
I was not a “happy camper”. What had I done? Turns out that I had forgotten to turn the cut off switch to the batteries back on. Once I did turn the Red Key back on, everything returned to normal. And the Bluesky read out as normal.
By any chance do you have a battery cut off switch? Is it turned on? Gently pulling on the red key should tell you if it’s on. If it doesn’t come out of the switch, it is on.
Ya never know. Sometimes we get lost in our attempts to resolve issues and forget a step we tried in our efforts.
Good luck.
Kent
Another possibility worth mentioning: if battery fluid levels are very low, the batteries may not be capable of accepting a charge (or supplying power). The fact that apparently neither your solar power system nor your converter is charging the batteries is suspicious--it's unlikely that both would fail at the same time. Have you checked the batteries' fluid levels?
"Have you checked the batteries' fluid levels?"
----
Monica's 2017 has AGMs.
I have an appointment tomorrow at 2:00 PM to have my battery problem checked out. When I told the RV technician the problem, he thought I may need a new converter. So, before I have him just change out the converter, I need some advice on other problems that he could check first. I would like to go in with a list of things for him to check. I would like to sound knowledgeable so that he doesn’t take advantage of me. Again, this is what is going on: My batteries do not charge with being plugged into shore power, solar, or running the generator. However, they did charge when I ran the Ford engine. After about 45 minutes I raised the voltage from 9 to 12. And after 2 hours without using any 12-volt appliances or lights, they are holding at 12 so I am hopeful that my batteries are not fried. Again, any advice that you could give me to have this RV technician check before changing the converter would be most appreciated. I have AGM batteries. My LD is less than 3 years old. Also, how low can an AGM battery go before it is damaged? If the converter does have to be changed, is there another brand recommended or should I get the same that LD installed? They installed the Parallax Power Supply converter. Thank you for any advice.
Monica
Thanks for pointing out the AGM-ness of those batteries, Joan!
The odd thing about this scenario is the lack of solar charging.
Yes, signs point to a converter problem, although I'd still want to verify that the converter is actually getting 120 VAC. I do have a fuzzy recollection that I once had a problem similar to this that turned out to be the automatic transfer switch--it wasn't passing either generator or shore power to the converter. The ATS sits on the back of the converter, but it's a separate unit.
I would ask the technician to check out the ATS first. A replacement ATS is only about sixty bucks, and changing it is much less labor-intensive than swapping the three or four hundred dollar Parallax converter box, with all those wires going in and out.
But... the solar charging system has nothing to do with the converter, so it should still be operating. Could it have failed at the same time? Seems like a heck of a coincidence. Monica, have you checked the fuse for the solar charger? It's probably in the converter (see Kent's third photo), and is conspicuously labeled.
Monica, I would want the repair place to show me how they figured out what it was. E.g. they can show you that electricity is getting to the converter/charger but not to the battery or into the ATS but not out the back side, etc. Take notes, so you know more about the wiring of your RV for any future problems.
I second Andy, get the repair place to also show why the solar is not working.
3 year seems pretty short for a converter IMO but likely outside of the warranty period.
I personally would not get the same brand but you need to determine your requirements (e.g. use your LD a lot and willing to pay more for a brand/model with more features, or use it less often and not cost effective to get a more expensive brand/model).
Consider smart charging - multiple stage charging (e.g. high charging when the battery is low, normal charging for that last 10% or so, storage/float which keeps the battery topped off but your solar should do this also, and equalization to help prevent stratification and sulfation). One stage can burn up batteries by overcharging them.
The best chargers can be set so the voltage for each stage matches your battery specs this can help lengthen the life of the battery.
However you have to figure out how much you use your LD and batteries and if you want a more expensive charger with more features (long term boondockers prefer this) vs you don't use your LD & batteries as often so it would not be cost effective to get the best features.
Victron has a lot of great features including smart charging and programming in the charging voltages but you pay more for it. Batteries last longer with this set up correctly which if you use your LD a lot might be cost effective.
Progressive is a middle of the road brand and others have reported it fits well into the allotted space (includes smart charging but not the ability to program to your battery specs, they use general numbers). They also have great tech support for any future problems.
Confirm with the tech doing the repairs that all your components will work together well.
Jane
Andy, we had very unusual wiring in our LD (original owners immediately replaced power center & the solar was wired directly into the power center - no controller and not attached to the batteries directly). We replaced everything and again didn't match stock LD wiring.
I am guessing there is a standard way, at least in newer LDs, of how they are wired.
I am guessing from what you say, they have the two controller/chargers:
One in/with the power center using electricity from shore/generator and going to the battery.
The other is the solar charger that goes directly to the battery (by passes the power center).
Is that correct?
Jane
"Is that correct?"
You've got me, Jane. I haven't seen a "modern" LD's electrical system firsthand, so all I know is what I read here and what was in my 2003 midbath before I ripped out everything and replaced it with Victron and Blue Sea components. I believe that they use a Blue Sky 3000i solar charging controller, with its output wired into the power center somehow, but beyond that I'm not sure. No doubt others here can give a better picture of what the factory has done in recent years.
Thanks Andy.
Anyone - for more recent LDS (e.g. last 10 ish years) do you know exactly where the solar panel is wired into the other components? E.G. The path from the solar panel to the battery goes thru what else (or is it direct)?
Jane
Monica, make sure that the RV tech checks the (fuses and) wiring connections at the power center terminals (and all other wiring, including connections in the battery box!) for tightness. (S/he should as part of the diagnostic, but...) Whole lotta shakin' goin on in an RV, and wires do loosen.
Anyone - for more recent LDS (e.g. last 10 ish years) do you know exactly where the solar panel is wired into the other components? E.G. The path from the solar panel to the battery goes thru what else (or is it direct)?
The solar comes from the roof, to the solar controller and then down to where it is connected to the LD's 12-volt electrical system in the Power Center, usually feed through a inline fuse.
Larry
Before replacing the converter, I suggest call Randy at Best Converters to see what is available in your size converter and advice finding one the is quiet, with a cooling fan that only runs when the unit is hot.
Some converters LD installed in this time period are very noisy, with fans that run anytime 120-volt power is available .
Almost all converters today are 'smart'.
Larry
Update: I had my appointment for my battery problem. When I started to ask the technician to check out some of the points that you all have suggested to me in your posts, they told me that they have no time to do anything else other than change the converter if that is the problem. The technician said he has been in this business for years and knows how to diagnose problems. He checked the converter and said that it needed to be replaced because it is not holding a charge. He said the solar panels are working but that the converter is not storing the charge. He said that batteries generally last three years and that I should think about getting new ones. Then he told me he is not going to do the job and I should go elsewhere. He was upset that I had questioned him. I am in Fruitland Park, Florida, and will be making my way south towards Everglades National Park, stopping at Port St. Lucie. Orlando and Miami should be on the way. Does anyone know an RV person who is knowledgeable in electric and honest and who can help me with this problem? I am really getting desperate. Thank you again for all your help.
Monica
Monica, IMO you are better off without that tech. He is just throwing major components at it - making nice money and maybe not fixing the problem at all (you wouldn't know until the new batteries start having problems).
I just sent you a PM (private message).
There is a list of repair places that members have compiled - pinned to the top of the LD General Info and Discussions forum.
REPAIR, MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE FACILITIES (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=29329.0)
You can also find lists thru Escapees, RVillage (though I think some of those are paid ads - I don't know if there is a rating system), and other organizations like that. Yelp and Google both have reviews with ratings and might be helpful also.
As always, the repair suggestions are peoples opinions of their experiences, not a guarantee you found a great person.
Jane
"He checked the converter and said that it needed to be replaced because it is not holding a charge."
You did well by taking your business down the road. If I had a service facility tell me that I would do just as you did.
Converters DO Not 'hold a charge'. Converters send electrical current (amps) to the batteries (from one of several sources) and the batteries hold the charge! Yes, it could be the fault of the converter in not charging the batteries but do you want to buy a new converter only to find that it was not the problem? I get the impression that all he wanted was your money.
As was said earlier, the ATS (transfer switch) could also be the culprit.
And, those AGM batteries should last a minimum of six years, I'm on my second set now.
Shoot, I just posted here and it is not here (must be operator error but a first for me).
Monica,
IMO you were better off not working with that repair shop. They are just throwing major components at it, might have worked, might not have (not figured out till the next batteries showed problems), and likely overkill (needed a connection tightened that might or might not have been redone when they replaced components).
There is a list of repair places under the forum General Info and Discussions - repair places (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=29329.0)
There are also lists at escapees, rvillage (I think these are paid ads though), and other places. Yelp and Google have reviews of places also.
I checked yelp and just called La Mesa RV - Sanford (https://www.lamesarv.com/) as they had high reviews.
He said they were 2 weeks out. However my first question was... I have a friend... do you do diagnostics or just know it is the converter and replace that or ... His response was yes we do a diagnostics..... I told him you stopped by a place that said it needed a new converter and batteries and he actually laughed and said - That is just throwing components at it, no we do diagnostics.
He suggested places are very busy right now and finding someone who can take a look at it quickly will be hard. He didn't really know places (I told him your direction of travel) but he said Lazydays RV was to the west - I asked if they were good and he said they were big so likely had time to take you (e.g. he didn't say they were good).
Side note, he had never heard of a LD RV before and was thinking I was referring to the dealership instead.
Another side note, the La Mesa RV in Phoenix area does not have good ratings, so I was surprised and expected to be disappointed when I called but this guy seemed good. As with cars, you want someone who does diagnostics and not just throwing parts at your problem.
Jane
Update, I just saw my post did show, guess the server was a little slow as I checked a couple times before posting this.
I've been watching this thread. I have nothing new to add except be careful not to confuse controller with converter. One changes AC to DC is converter. The other regulates or distributes voltage.
One more thought.... When any sales person/repair person says 'trust me' grab your wallet and run. If they can't take the time to explain what they are doing then they have no idea what they are talking about.
Glen
Glen, I agree - same with anyone who says I am a professional (or something similar that conveys they have the knowledge so know what they are doing), everyone I have worked with who said that didn't have a clue what they were doing and creating future expensive problems with bad repairs. Good places gladly show you what they found in their diagnostics when asked (e.g. hook to this show you the reading, hook to that and show you the reading, show you the parts that are worn, etc.).
Jane
Monica, sorry you ended up with a know-it-all jackass. Here are three links which may help:
THE BEST 10 RV Repair in Orlando, FL - Last Updated January 2020 - Yelp (https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=rvrepair&find_loc=Orlando%2C+FL)
THE BEST 10 RV Repair in Miami, FL - Last Updated January 2020 - Yelp (https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=rvrepair&find_loc=Miami%2C+FL)
RVRepair-Review.com, real customer reviews of local rv repair shop |... (https://www.rvrepair-review.com/)
Did you call Randy at Best Converter?
Please update when you get the problem resolved.
I have to say, I checked with Randy at Best Converter (based on recommendations here) several years ago when we were replacing our entire power center.
He pushed heavily the boondocker units and would barely talk to me about the progressive units which he does carry.
I didn't consider the boondocker a better unit - they claim the niche market of replacing all other converter brands for a low price.
I discussed this with a couple forum members (PMs) and in general we felt he was pushing the boondockers for profit reasons, not for quality reasons. The members I talked to were ones that want higher performance from their components (e.g. do lots of boondocking).
I opted to go with a different seller and get a product I felt was better (Progressive). I don't regret it, the tech support from Progressive is outstanding (you could call them with your current issue and Dennis would get all excited and explain things to you in layman's terms, thrilled to be debugging with you - he is that kind of guy).
If I was doing it again (and planned to use my RV for a long time with a lot of boondocking), I would go with Victron (more expensive but better features to help save wear and tear on your battery). As I said in a previous post, that might not be your choice if you don't boondock a lot are not looking for something of that caliber. Each person has to figure out their needs and what fits for them.
Jane
Hi Monica,
I am sorry you are having these problems. I have a couple thoughts and suggestions.
My thought is that it seems like your converter/charging unit is not sending power to the house batteries. Any power being supplied from your electrical hook up and power generated by solar panels is not getting to your batteries. If I understand your previous post, your truck engine does charge your batteries, so your batteries are probably not the source of your problems. What does this mean? It means that any thing you are using that requires 12 volt power is depleting your batteries. This includes your water pump, all lighting systems, furnace, and even your tv (if it is a 12 volt DC tv) are drawing down your batteries. Things that are plugged in to AC power like your electric heater, microwave, air conditioning are running off the AC power you seem to still be getting from the electrical service you are plugged in to.
Here is what I would do, especially if you prefer to wait until you return home to have a repair done. This assumes you are going to have electrical hookups on your trip. I would purchase a 12 volt battery charger to use when connected to AC power. Sources of a battery charger are places like the auto section of a Walmart, auto parts stores like Autozone, Advance, Pep Boys, or even Home Depot. I believe if you plug the charger into the electrical supply at your campsite with the charger connected to your house batteries, that will allow you to continue using your water pump, interior lighting, tv, etc. without depleting your batteries.
IF you are not going to have electrical hookups, severely limit your 12 volt usage. No tv, limited lighting usage, try to minimize furnace use. Just like if you were boondocking with limited solar charging. Charge your batteries through driving or the generator. (Run the truck engine to provide power for starting the generator)
Ideally, you get this problem fixed now. IF you have Coach-net, they are more than just a roadside emergency supplier. So if you have Coach-net, give them a call. They may be able to help you with a diagnosis over the phone and I am sure they can connect you with a good service provider. I have used Coach-net twice and they have not let me down.
What I would NOT do is go to a service place and provide them with a list of things other people have suggested they check. They may well view that as condescending. Your problem could be as simple as a blown fuse or a loose wire. Or you may well need a new converter/charger. If it were me and that was the diagnosis, I would do that first and hold off on the battery replacement until I knew they actually were ruined. Take it a step at a time. Maybe you need them and maybe you don't. I would be shocked if 3 year old AGMs were ruined, but I have no experience with AGMs.
Good luck! And remember the challenges the pioneers faced. If the wheels didn't fall of the wagon or the mule didn't die, bandits didn't attack and you made 12 miles, it was a good day. Never let them see you sweat.
Steve K
I opted to go with a different seller and get a product I felt was better (Progressive).
---
Progressive Dynamics (power centers, etc.) and Progressive Industries (EMS, etc.).
Recreational Vehicle Products for the RV Industry (https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/)
Rv Surge Protection | United States | Progressive Industries, Inc. (https://www.progressiveindustries.net/)
(N.B. Best Converter does sell Progressive Dynamics power centers.)
Progressive Dynamics would be my choice if I needed a converter (and was when I replaced the old Parallax), if indeed that's what will resolve Monica's power problem. Step-by-step testing for an accurate diagnosis is still needed, and I hope a knowledgeable, reliable tech who can do that will be found very soon.
If I understand your previous post, your truck engine does charge your batteries....
Here is what I would do, especially if you prefer to wait until you return home to have a repair done. This assumes you are going to have electrical hookups on your trip. I would purchase a 12 volt battery charger to use when connected to AC power......
Monica, I was just thinking along the same lines but that you could just use your engine to charge your batteries as needed (watch them and make sure you don't pull them down too far between charges). Use 12 V fixtures/appliances as needed but don't use them when not needed. You can easily last this way until you can get it to a shop like.
Jane
I agree--that tech was an ignorant jerk. I'm very sorry you are in this situation, and doubly sorry that the tech you were able to find turned out to be worse than useless. ("Converter not holding a charge"? Hah!)
I agree that running your engine and/or buying a battery charger may be your best bet until you can find a competent repair place. Be sure to get a charger that has an AGM setting. I've used this one (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EDFPN1O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image) a few times and it seems to work OK on AGM batteries. It would certainly get you through an emergency. Amazon can get it to you in a couple of days.
"If I was doing it again (and planned to use my RV for a long time with a lot of boondocking), I would go with Victron (more expensive but better features to help save wear and tear on your battery)."
I've installed a lot of Victron equipment, and generally I like their stuff, as many here know*. But replacing a standard Parallax power center--which contains AC breakers, DC fuses, a 12 V charger, and an automatic transfer switch all in one package--with multiple Victron components is a complicated job involving rewiring and carpentry. Yes, the end result will be much better, but it takes a lot of planning and a lot of work.
The Parallax box is a drop-in, one-piece solution. Victron doesn't have anything remotely like that. Progressive Dynamics does. For most folks, it's probably the most practical way to go.
* Although I'm not so happy with their tech support in recent years.
The mystery continues. Yesterday morning as I was calling RV services for my battery problem, I suddenly noticed that my solar panels were charging the batteries. I’m wondering if the technician did something as he was checking out the converter, even though he had told me that I needed to replace the converter and consider replacing the batteries. Now I wonder what will happen if I am hooked up to electric or run the generator. As I had reported previously, neither electric, the generator, or solar panels were charging the battery and it was down to 9 volts. Yesterday my panel readout was over 13 volts. I was thrilled. It will be a few days before I can run the generator as I am not allowed to run it here where I am dry camping. Not quite sure when I’ll be hooked up to electric again. Will keep you posted. Any ideas of what is going on? Thank you so much for all your help with my problem.
Monica
Monica. Are all the house battery cables tight and clean?
It's possible the tech inadvertently affected a connection that was loose and/or dirty which allowed the system to work - for now. Another thing that comes to mind is that some electrical components can fail intermittently which then eventually leads to a total failure - or not.
My experience recently was with a HI 8 VCR, a rare bird, which partially shut down and then came back to life a couple days later. It's still running 6 months later..... Frank
Sometimes even the Gremlins get it right.
https://youtu.be/euhUfZGddwk
Kent
Sometimes even the Gremlins get it right.
Or, even a broken clock ⏰ is right twice a day!
"Are all the house battery cables tight and clean?"
Yes, Joan mentioned that earlier, and it's really the first thing to check, because it's easy and costs nothing.
Here's another possibility: it's well known that the 120 VAC connections inside the automatic transfer switch (on the back of the Parallax power center) can loosen up with time and travel. That could stop both shore power and generator power from getting to the converter, hence preventing charging from either source. It can also cause a meltdown and potentially a fire.
If you don't feel comfortable pulling out the power center and tightening up those ATS connections yourself, you should definitely have someone do it. It's a simple job if you have the right tools (screwdriver, nut driver and maybe Allen wrench).
"Yesterday my panel readout was over 13 volts. I was thrilled."
You didn't mention what time of day it was. Just a reminder--13 volts during the day means your solar charging system is working, which is good, but it tells you nothing about the charge state of your batteries. It's the readings after the sun goes down that matter.
Is that 13 volts getting to the battery? How about the hidden circuit breaker. We know the one from the engine is good.
Jon
Is that 13 volts getting to the battery? How about the hidden circuit breaker. We know the one from the engine is good.
If bad, the hidden circuit breaker would disconnect the battery from the Power Center.
The voltmeter would indicate zero at night, if the converter wasn't working or powered up.
Larry
Monica et al,
A funny thing happened as I stepped into our ‘15 RB last night which is in our driveway and is connected to shore power 24/7. The 110 outlets were dead. No microwave, no fridge (12 volt was running but I have not yet replaced my ageing AGM’s).
I turned all the breakers off/on. No change. I checked the power cord on the outside...no indicator light showing power coming out. I checked that the power cord was plugged into my power pedestal...still connected.
I went in the garage and checked the breakers...all still aligned nothing tripped. I tripped them anyway and reset them. I checked for the light at the end of the LD power cord...still out.
One last thing to do. I unplugged the power cord from the pedestal (it was still fully connected...I keep it covered with plastic and use a bungee cord around the plastic to keep the cord securely in place).
I then plugged the cord back into the pedestal and checked the cords indicator light...it lit up. 😳
Entering the rig, I could hear the inverter humming. Checked the outlets and I had power again. Set the clock on the microwave and thanked my lucky stars.
Gremlins...gotta love ‘em. See you all in Morro Bay.
Kent
If you can't fix it with a hammer, wrench, or a screwdriver, it's electrical. You can't see the electrons. It's magical...
Monica et al,
A funny thing happened as I stepped into ...
Gremlins...gotta love ‘em. See you all in Morro Bay.
Kent
One last thing to do. I unplugged the power cord from the pedestal (it was still fully connected...I keep it covered with plastic and use a bungee cord around the plastic to keep the cord securely in place).
I then plugged the cord back into the pedestal and checked the cords indicator light...it lit up. 😳
Shine the plug's contacts with a very fine stainless steel brush and then give the contacts a thin coat of dielectric grease, to prevent future corrosion. Exterior power plugs, no mater how well protected do get wet.
On a similar note, last Saturday, while out camping, the refrigerator was running on electric. We went out for a few hours and came back to find to refrigerator warm (51 degrees) . The eyebrow showed it was running on electric and the "Check" light was off. Checking the refrigerator's boiler, it was cool and the chimney was cool too.
Unplugging the 120-VAC, inside the refrigerator compartment, caused the propane to light and the refrigerator began to work correctly and was left on propane until we returned home.
When we returned home, the refrigerator was plugged back in and it started right up and has been running non-stop for a week, except for turning it on and off a few times to see if that had any effect..
So much for troubleshooting the problem when it's occurring, as I should have done out in the desert. At the time, hanging with my LD friends seemed like a better thing to do .
What to do? All the contacts on the Dinosaur control board were renewed, the plug checked and the wiring got a good wiggle.
A new, wired remote thermometer, with high and low temperature alarms, has been installed, in case it does it again we will have a warning .
There's always a new problem coming down the line, It's the LD's way of keeping my mind active .
Larry
Kent, I would do like Larry did and wiggle your prongs on your plug to make sure they are not loose (as well as the cleaning he talked about).
Jane
Monica, i just wanted to add that most house batteries should last between 5-7 years, usually closer to the 7 year mark. Just another clue that the service tech was full of it.
David G
"Set the clock on the microwave and thanked my lucky stars."
"I would do like Larry did and wiggle your prongs on your plug to make sure they are not loose (as well as the cleaning he talked about)."
Kent,
If no wiggle and you're satisfied the plug is okay, when you plug the cord into your pedestal, is it loose at all? Any sag on the plug rather than being held firmly? Receptacles can become worn over time and lose their ability to maintain a good grip on the prongs. I like it when I have to exert some force when I plug into a receptacle. It suggests to me a good connection. Maybe a loose connection at one of the lugs on the receptacle if all else seems okay?
Bill
Bill,
Thanks. The outlet is only a couple of years old. I have an outdoor cover over it. I notched the cover to allow for the oversized power cord and the drop angle.
The fit is snug with no play. After I cover the box & power cord with two 3 mill plastic bags, I use a bungee cord to wrap securely around the whole outlet and hook it to an adjacent fence. Nice and snug, no play and no obvious moisture.
I will follow Larry’s advice and polish the prongs and add a bit of dielectric grease. This should do the trick.
Waiting for my turn on Rise Of The Resistance at Disneyland right now. As with many of my LD trips, I am going SOLO today.
Fighting for the Resistance.
Kent
I apologize for not updating you sooner about my battery problem. Since I wrote last, I had been at the Everglades National Park and did not have cell service or my hot spot for internet, although AT&T customers did. I am now back to cities and have placed calls for RV service technicians. I have been managing since the batteries do charge up to about 13.1 with solar or with the Ford engine on. They then pretty much have stayed in the 12.2 to 12.6 range. (When they had dropped down to about 9, I was on shore power but in the shade.) They do not charge with shore power or the generator. I again thank you all for your advice and I will report back with any progress and solution to this problem.
Monica
12.2v-12.6v is pretty low. They should charge to 13.6 plus when charged and rest, fully charged at about 12.9v. 9 volts for any length of time can be fatal for 12v automotive batteries.
If possible, you might want to have your batteries charged and load tested. Then you can get a good idea if it is a battery or a charging problem.
Harold
Hi Harold, this is an ongoing problem that Monica was just updating us on. The converter 12volt supply, or a switching relay seems to be the most likely suspect. RonB
Updates are always appreciated.
I'd still load test those batteries.
HD
"I'd still load test those batteries."
Agreed, since discharging to 9V could have damaged them. But that raises a question: how meaningful is the kind of load test done by a garage or battery seller when applied to a deep-cycle AGM battery? My impression is that those places are accustomed to testing flooded-cell starting batteries, which have quite different characteristics. Would the results of such a load test provide a good estimate of an AGM house battery's condition?
Sorry if this is a repeat. My original reply disappeared into the ether.
Andy, Good question.
Monica needs an honest electrical repair shop/tech and unless she is near San Diego, I can't help with that. However, I had a similar problem on our tug where charging was intermittent, which was a frustrating problem when we were anchored 100 miles from home with low battery voltage. We have a good marine electrical shop that sells AGM and flooded batteries, as well as cables, chargers, etc. I pulled the AGM's and they load tested all of them. The Lifeline AGM batteries were determined to be OK (five years old) and the problem was determined to be an intermittent problem in the big Xantrex charger/inverter. The shop was good enough to recommend a local Xantrex repair facility that diagnosed and repaired the Xantrex unit for a fraction of the cost of a new one.
The most difficult part of the job was pulling the batteries and charger, hauling them to the shop, and putting all back together. The cost was less than $200 and the problem was solved.
Monica, good luck on solving the issue. Electrical issues are often difficult to diagnose and always frustrating, but you will end up feeling smarter and self-reliant when you figure it out and get things fixed.
Harold
Agreed, since discharging to 9V could have damaged them. But that raises a question: how meaningful is the kind of load test done by a garage or battery seller when applied to a deep-cycle AGM battery? My impression is that those places are accustomed to testing flooded-cell starting batteries, which have quite different characteristics.
Testing deep cycle batteries requires a much large piece of equipment than what ordinary auto shops have.
Much of the emergency lighting and power systems at LAX use large banks of batteries. The electricians had a trailer mounted load bank, a huge, fan cooled resistor, big enough to put a heavy load on a large battery bank, for an extended period without burning up. It's similar to the dynamic braking resistors seen on top of diesel railway engines, the type designed for descending long mountain grades.
Resistor grids on the roof of an X'Trapolis train - Wongm's Rail Gallery (https://railgallery.wongm.com/melbourne-suburban-bits/F105_1552.jpg.html)
A large marine electrical shop would be expected have a battery load tester large enough to test boat batteries, which can be huge when compared to car and RV batteries.
Larry
Update of my battery problem saga and resolution (hopefully): This is long. Note: misspellings in the quotes are how the words were written.
Prior to going for my appointment to diagnose my house battery problem I called and spoke with the Parallax converter tech person. He said the problem could be different things and offered to e-mail me a Troubleshooting Guide to give to the RV technicians. I gave them the guide and they were receptive. I went for my appointment. Their website said that they do service with electrical problems and work on all types of motorhomes. However, they primarily work on large Class A’s. I also had an oil change for the chassis and an oil change for the generator plus had them repair a couple of small items on the coach. After diagnosing for two hours, to my amazement they said that they did not find any problem with my batteries and that they were charging on shore power and with the generator (which had not been the case with me) as well as with the Ford engine and solar. They had taken the cord out of my bin and used that to test and diagnose. They wanted to make sure that I didn’t have a faulty cord. They said they ran the generator. They said they did not find any issues, and everything worked as designed. I asked how that could be possible. I told them that I had used a surge protector (Progressive PT30X-30amp Portable EMS) when plugged in. The tech told me that he is almost certain that the surge protector was the source of my problem. I asked him to explain this and write it down for me. He wrote, “External Shore Power Surge Guards cut off @ 113 v @ Low Voltage à Cutt off for 3 mins or 180 seconds, check for good pwr for 3 mins More Before Coming Back On.” He also added that in his opinion one should not use an external surge guard when camping in Florida as there is too much fluctuation due to the high temperatures and high use of electricity.
When I paid my bill, they told me that they would give me a $50 discount if I wrote a good review. I would have to write the review right there in order to get the discount. Since I had had such a bad experience with the previous RV tech who said that I needed a new converter and batteries, I appreciated their honesty and did write a good review. At the time I thought that they had solved my problem. (My son recently told me that reviews are meaningless because vendors do exactly what this place did—offer a discount for a good review. That had been my first experience.)
When I camped and plugged into shore power and ran the generator my original problem was still there exactly as it had been—batteries were still not charging on shore power or with the generator! I called them back and spoke with the owner who said he wanted to make this right and to come in the next day which I did. They claimed that on the first visit the problem didn’t present itself.
When I returned, their Service & Part Description was:
“Job ID 1: UNIT NOT CHARGING HOUSE BATTERIES WHEN PLUGGED IN OR ON GENSET COMEBACK
Condition: converter not charging
Cause: loose network wire for on signal
Correction: removed conveter cover
took voltage reading
discovered converter off
removed mount bolts and
slid conveter assembly out
found loose network monitor cable
tighted cable and converter came on
-- tested – converter unit shuts off
and does not come back on by itself,
have to hit converter charger for it
to come back on
will replace component and charge
customer our cost for part, no labor
charge”
I had to return a third day to have the Parallax Power Center /Charger Unit installed. I had told them that I was considering having a different brand of converter installed and they told me that I would then have to pay labor as it would be more involved than just having the same model replaced, so I went with Parallax.
I spent hours over three days at the RV service center.
"When I paid my bill, they told me that they would give me a $50 discount if I wrote a good review. I would have to write the review right there in order to get the discount. Since I had had such a bad experience with the previous RV tech who said that I needed a new converter and batteries, I appreciated their honesty and did write a good review. At the time I thought that they had solved my problem. (My son recently told me that reviews are meaningless because vendors do exactly what this place did--offer a discount for a good review. That had been my first experience.)"
as a person that's writes many reviews I had to smile at this. This would be the easiest $50 I've ever got. All reviews that I know of and use can either be edited later or deleted by the original reviewer.
As an aside I find it a site have all glowing reviews or all bad reviews I discount the whole review process. No place is 100% prefect or 100% bad.
Glen
I'm glad you finally got a resolution, Monica! But now I'm curious...
Can somebody explain what kind of "network wire" a Parallax converter would have? Monica's 2017 LD obviously has a newer model than I'm familiar with. I can make a guess--a CAT5 cable to some kind of remote control panel--but I'd be interested to hear from somebody who knows. And if that's what we're talking about, what would the remote panel be controlling?
As some here may remember, I once had a problem with my Xantrex proSINE 2.0 inverter/charger that turned out to be caused by a corroded modular (RJ11) plug at the proSINE end--it was in an external compartment, and apparently enough moisture sneaked in over time to cause corrosion. The symptom was gibberish displayed on the proSINE's remote control panel, which was an elaborate one intended to display voltage, amperage, and allow changing the proSINE unit's myriad settings. But I don't know what the much simpler Parallax converter would need a remote panel for, so I'm curious.
Harold (Blueox25),
I'm interested in your "local Xantrex repair facility" location. San Diego? I have a Xantrex charger/inverter that doesn't work. The shop that determined it wasn't working was reliable but did not mention it might be repairable.
Thanks!
-Judy