I have been living in my 2003 26' mid-bath for almost two years now and have had no electrical issues until last week when, while plugged in to shore power, I ran a small electric heater. It blew the breaker in the house I'm plugged into and but now NOTHING works–not my lights, fridge or control panel UNLESS I'm plugged into shore power. I have 600w of solar and my inverter is fine so it's not a problem with the batteries. I checked all of the breakers and fuses in the circuit box next to my oven and everything checks out okay. Again, while plugged into shore power, everything works fine. I am hoping to avoid the cost of having it serviced.
I am certainly no expert but since you checked the obvious stuff, how about the 50amp push button breaker under the refrigerator. You need to pull out the drawer to get to it. It’s on the left. Good luck.
I read somewhere that if I wanted to use a small electric heater to save propane, use it on low and run a dedicated HD single extension cord to the pedestal outside, not to plug it into the RV outlets, hope that helps next time
Just to clarify: You're saying that after 1) tripping a 120 VAC breaker outside the rig, 2) you now have no 12 VDC power when running on batteries, but 3) you do have 12V power when plugged into shore power. Correct?
If so, that implies your converter is working, but there's a disconnect between your batteries and the rest of your 12 V system. I second Jack's suggestion to reset the master 12 V breaker below the fridge. I'm not sure whether that could produce the symptoms you describe, but resetting it is worth a try.
You didn't say how you are plugged into a house, but in most cases you won't get more than 15 or 20 amps tops--not like a 30 A shore-power connection at a campground. If using a longish extension cord, you may get even less. Here are a few tips for that situation.
1. Use a 15 A to 30 A adapter at the house end and a 30 A extension cord to the rig, rather than running a skinny 15 A extension cord out to the rig. This will minimize voltage drop.
2. As Clark suggested, never run your portable electric heater on its highest setting. At that setting it will take all the current a household outlet can supply, leaving no margin for error. If possible, buy a heater with three heat settings (typically 600/900/1500 watts). Depending upon available power, you may be able to run two of these on their 600 W settings, placing one in each end of the rig. Two low-powered heaters will do a much better job of keeping your rig warm than one high-powered heater.
3. Find out what else is using the household circuit you are plugging into. If there's a space heater, coffeemaker, hair dryer or other high-wattage appliance in the house that's using the same circuit, then you are sharing 15-20 amps with it. Limit your usage accordingly.
4. Switch your refrigerator to propane. When running, it draws 3 amps, and that can push the circuit beyond its limits.
5. Forget about using the microwave oven or coffeemaker.
Hope this helps!
I read somewhere that if I wanted to use a small electric heater to save propane, use it on low and run a dedicated HD single extension cord to the pedestal outside, not to plug it into the RV outlets, hope that helps next time
A large 120-volt electric heater can be run on any of the interior's plugs without issues as long as the circuit isn't overloaded.
If more than one large electric heater needs to run, using the pedestal's additional 20-amp plug to power it is suggested.
The suggestion for the OP to check the circuit breaker is good one. The 50-amp, not automatic reset, breaker has no standard location, it can be hidden in many places, usually within three feet of the Power Center. The 50-amp circuit breaker is part of the main positive wire coming from the battery to the Power Center, after passing thought the 100-amp breaker, which is located inside the battery box. Either breaker could be tripped or be defective.
The Owner's Manual does not acknowledge 50-amp circuit's existence or show its location, it can be hidden under drawer or panels.
Larry
Hi Tiger. A small 600Watt electric heater works well on the built in 110VAC outlets. I carry one and use it when I have hookups. There is no need to run an extra cord, and if you did you would need a way to plug in the heater to it. What?; through a window? Just watch how many other things are on.
On a slightly different topic, This seems like a good place. I know that many people don't know how to recognize a circuit breaker that has tripped. The handle will be in the center between the off or on position. To reset one, especially a GFCI breaker. You have to flip the breaker all the way off. Then turn it all the way on again. (this is not the problem Kush has, but I wanted to repeat that here.) The GFCI should be tested at least once a year by pressing the "push to test" button. It should trip. Then you will need to reset it. This goes for residential breakers also. RonB
Kush,
Jack Hiett's recommendation is your likely solution to your short. As others have said, if you pull out the bottom drawers from under your refrigerator or other cabinets and shine a flashlight inside, you will likely find some wire cables that appear to go to a small connector. That little small connector is your breaker. As Andy pointed out, there is no reference to it in your owner's manual. On that connector, there is a little black button on the side that will reset your house's internal 12 volt system. Your symptoms mimicked mine and I detailed my solution in a text on another thread. I am sure you can navigate to that earlier thread in a search of this site. I enclosed pictures showing the location and included photos of the small breaker in my 30 TB.
Let us know if you solved your problem,
Gary
"there is no reference to it in your owner's manual"
As I recall, it was mentioned my 2003 midbath's manual... but they didn't say where it was! And hiding it inside a cabinet under the fridge (in the case of the midbath) makes it extremely unlikely that an owner would ever find it. Grrr.
"...it was mentioned my 2003 midbath's manual... but they didn't say where it was!"
---
The manual for my 2003 TK contains a schematic labeled 'Typical Diode Isolator, House Batteries, Radio and CB Fuses and Their Power Source, 100 amp 12V Reset Circuit Breaker'. The diagram is basic, and may be generic, but it does show the 100A circuit breaker manual rest as being located 'inside the house battery compartment'. The 50A circuit breaker manual reset shows as being 'located within 2' of the house batteries within the motorhome.'
In the case of the TK, I suspect that this is close to the wall between the battery compartment and the power center compartment (inside the power center compartment) and getting to the 50A breaker most likely requires pulling out the power center. If anyone has a TK of similar vintage (I have no idea if the location has changed in newer models) and has already done the 50A treasure hunt, maybe they'll share their discovery of the location?
"...it was mentioned my 2003 midbath's manual... but they didn't say where it was!"
---
The manual for my 2003 TK contains a schematic labeled 'Typical Diode Isolator, House Batteries, Radio and CB Fuses and Their Power Source, 100 amp 12V Reset Circuit Breaker'. The diagram is basic, and may be generic, but it does show the 100A circuit breaker manual rest as being located 'inside the house battery compartment'. The 50A circuit breaker manual reset shows as being 'located within 2' of the house batteries within the motorhome.'
In the case of the TK, I suspect that this is close to the wall between the battery compartment and the power center compartment (inside the power center compartment) and getting to the 50A breaker most likely requires pulling out the power center. If anyone has a TK of similar vintage (I have no idea if the location has changed in newer models) and has already done the 50A treasure hunt, maybe they'll share their discovery of the location?
As does the manual for my '02 30'.
Chris
I humbly stand corrected; I had missed the reference in my manual it seems...………………
Gary
I humbly stand corrected; I had missed the reference in my manual it seems...………………
Gary
I think we all forget how complete and detailed the LD manuals are. Many RV manuals aren't so.
Chris
In our 1994 Mid Bath, the breaker in question is under the dinette bench closest to the exit door.
Jon
Just to clarify: You're saying that after 1) tripping a 120 VAC breaker outside the rig, 2) you now have no 12 VDC power when running on batteries, but 3) you do have 12V power when plugged into shore power. Correct?
If so, that implies your converter is working, but there's a disconnect between your batteries and the rest of your 12 V system. I second Jack's suggestion to reset the master 12 V breaker below the fridge. I'm not sure whether that could produce the symptoms you describe, but resetting it is worth a try.
You didn't say how you are plugged into a house, but in most cases you won't get more than 15 or 20 amps tops--not like a 30 A shore-power connection at a campground. If using a longish extension cord, you may get even less. Here are a few tips for that situation.
1. Use a 15 A to 30 A adapter at the house end and a 30 A extension cord to the rig, rather than running a skinny 15 A extension cord out to the rig. This will minimize voltage drop.
2. As Clark suggested, never run your portable electric heater on its highest setting. At that setting it will take all the current a household outlet can supply, leaving no margin for error. If possible, buy a heater with three heat settings (typically 600/900/1500 watts). Depending upon available power, you may be able to run two of these on their 600 W settings, placing one in each end of the rig. Two low-powered heaters will do a much better job of keeping your rig warm than one high-powered heater.
3. Find out what else is using the household circuit you are plugging into. If there's a space heater, coffeemaker, hair dryer or other high-wattage appliance in the house that's using the same circuit, then you are sharing 15-20 amps with it. Limit your usage accordingly.
4. Switch your refrigerator to propane. When running, it draws 3 amps, and that can push the circuit beyond its limits.
5. Forget about using the microwave oven or coffeemaker.
Hope this helps!
Thank you! That's very helpful!
Here's what's under my fridge but I don't see any switches. Thanks to everyone for your help! I am so appreciative.
In our 1994 Mid Bath, the breaker in question is under the dinette bench closest to the exit door.
Jon
I don't have a dinette–only a folding table with bookcase beneath. I'm not able to find anything that resembles your photo anywhere but I'll continue searching!
Our kitchen table is immediately to the right of the entry door but our battery box is also in the same location on the outside. Locate your battery box outside and look inside the coach behind the box. ours has a couple large red wires. Bear in mind ours is a 1994 model.
Our kitchen table is immediately to the right of the entry door but our battery box is also in the same location on the outside. Locate your battery box outside and look inside the coach behind the box. ours has a couple large red wires. Bear in mind ours is a 1994 model.
I pulled the batteries out and there's nothing behind them at all and there's nothing beneath the seat that's beside the door. Thank you though!
This sounds like an old Parallex / Magnatek dc converter relay failure. What converter is installed?
Is there a marine grade fuse installed on the battery terminals? 1988 MB has a self resetting breakers outside on the bottom of the floor in front of the battery box !
This sounds like an old Parallex / Magnatek dc converter relay failure. What converter is installed?
Is there a marine grade fuse installed on the battery terminals? 1988 MB has a self resetting breakers outside on the bottom of the floor in front of the battery box !
Forgive me but I have no idea of the answers to your first questions but to your last question, when you say "battery box," do you mean the sliding tray that HOLDS my batteries? Because I looked in there and at the back and there are no breakers at all.
Kush, I had a 2003 midbath like yours. Jack had the correct answer: remove the drawer under the fridge (takes a hard pull or jerk). Reach inside the opening and feel around on the left for a small box about half the size of an ice cube with two wires attached. It has a tiny reset button one side. Push the button. I hope that does the trick!
Kush,
Sorry for the confusion i created.
Rodney and Kush; My '99, not a MidBath but a TK, has a resettable circuit breaker mounted in the back, at the top, in the battery box. (100 Amp I think) Black alongside the black coated interior makes it hard to see if you don't know that it is there. I think that Andy and Larry are referring to a second resettable circuit breaker, located inside the coach, nearest the battery box in a cleaner location. (50 Amp I think) I probably have that also in the TK but I've never needed to find it or reset it (yet). RonB
OK, this may be a dumb theory about what might be wrong, Kush. But, I'm going to mention it because it happened to us. It's just a theory because I don't understand how or why it happened.
We had our TK plugged in to shore power for several weeks. When we uplugged it and tried using the appliances off the Lazy Daze 12V system, nothing worked.
I read the manual thinking I needed to find something to switch to get our LD to "see" and "connect" back to the 12V system. I could not find any reference to a switchover from shore to 12V, so we kept trying to turn things on.
It turned out that there was some kind of delay and after awhile the 12V system started working again - which we discovered by keeping trying turning things on and leaving them in the on position instead of just turning them on/off quick. I wish I could explain it better.
I'm just mentioning it in case something like this is happening and it's not actually a blown circuit.
Jim & Deb
Santa Cruz, California
OK, this may be a dumb theory about what might be wrong, Kush. But, I'm going to mention it because it happened to us. It's just a theory because I don't understand how or why it happened.
We had our TK plugged in to shore power for several weeks. When we uplugged it and tried using the appliances off the Lazy Daze 12V system, nothing worked.
I read the manual thinking I needed to find something to switch to get our LD to "see" and "connect" back to the 12V system. I could not find any reference to a switchover from shore to 12V, so we kept trying to turn things on.
It turned out that there was some kind of delay and after awhile the 12V system started working again - which we discovered by keeping trying turning things on and leaving them in the on position instead of just turning them on/off quick. I wish I could explain it better.
I'm just mentioning it in case something like this is happening and it's not actually a blown circuit.
Jim & Deb
Santa Cruz, California
Thanks for the help, Jim & Deb. I did try that and nothing worked.
Kush, you are getting a lot of information because we can't see what you see and are trying to be helpful.
Basics, when tracking down an electrical issue, you want to start at one point and follow the wires, seeing what you find along the way.
You pulled out the batteries and saw wires. It sounds like the wires went (with no breaks and no other items) directly out of the battery box into the coach.
So go into the coach at that same spot and find those same wires coming thru the battery bin into the coach.
See what they connect to.
Then just follow the wire looking for what the wire connect to.
The wires will end up at your power center (where your fuses and breakers are) and /or the charger/converter or an external ATS (automatic transfer switch that takes 120V from two sources - the generator and shore power) - the specifics depend on what your LD started with and any changes previous owners have made.
You are looking for anything (even if it looks like some bolts that connect wires but not like a breaker) that is between the battery and the power center.
It will be amazing what you can get into - open drawers, cabinet doors, etc. You can also take a phone and stick it in with video on and twist it around recording things to see what is inside areas, while you slowly figure out that path of the wires.
Pictures help as eyes on the forum that have seen breakers/etc. before can spot something you might miss. When we got our old LD I took pictures of all the odd things I didn't know about (were car parts, not the house stuff I knew about) that were between our battery, power center, and other areas of the LD coach about and posted them to ask "What is this?".
Jane
Rodney and Kush; My '99, not a MidBath but a TK, has a resettable circuit breaker mounted in the back, at the top, in the battery box. (100 Amp I think) Black alongside the black coated interior makes it hard to see if you don't know that it is there. I think that Andy and Larry are referring to a second resettable circuit breaker, located inside the coach, nearest the battery box in a cleaner location. (50 Amp I think) I probably have that also in the TK but I've never needed to find it or reset it (yet). RonB
Not all of the hidden circuit breakers have a reset button, some are automatic. Some are a single breaker, others have two tied together for a higher amperage load.
The circuit breakers should look like one of the breakers shown at the top of the following link.
Stud Mount Circuit Breakers (https://www.delcity.net/store/Stud-Mount-Circuit-Breakers/p_167864)
The breaker will have a heavy wire attached to each end, connected with crimp-on lugs.
Larry
I also had a 2003 MB and the 12v reset button is exactly where Andy describes it (which he helped me find when I was in a similar predicament!). Here's a photo I took so I could find it again when I needed it. It's so obscure that unless you don't know it's there or know that it's actually a reset button, it's easy to overlook.
Hi Kush. The converter has a relay that switches your 12 volt system from batteries to its own internal 12v dc supply when it gets power from a 110v AC source. That relay is supposed to drop out (switch) back to batteries as the source for your 12 volts when it loses the 110v AC. If the contacts, really just one contact, for the hot lead sticks shut (usually semi-welded in place) that would give you the symptoms your LD is showing.
If it were me, I'd pull out the converter, take the cover off, and look for a suspect relay. This isn't the similar one that switches from shore power to generator and back. 'Whacking' the suspect relay carefully with a screwdriver can dislodge that contact, back to normal operation. Usually two contacts are provided to switch the neutral back and forth but since the neutrals are essentially also the ground, they don't switch much current. Unless you have a lot of experience with working inside power supplies and such, maybe you can have someone service it. Might be time to upgrade your converter to a newer more sophisticated model. You can do that yourself more easily. That relay contact, if it did 'stick' and 'unstick' would need replacing anyway.
Your signature says a 2001 MB, but you say a 2003. Either way, if you have the original converter, a newer converter would probably treat your batteries better. An of course be newer. I think looking for an opened circuit breaker has been exhausted by now, more likely something else like a stuck relay. RonB
First everyone, Ron did circuit boards etc for a living, so he is a lot more familiar than most of us.
I was wincing picturing myself whacking a relay on a circuit board with a screwdriver (imagining tons of things flying off the board and across the room).
Ron, so you have a picture of a relay that would show the rest of us what one looks like? (My DH knows stuff like that but I don't).
Jane
Ron, in the refrigeration field we called it gently tapping it with a screw driver handle. I think your spot on but it would sure be nice to know where that reset is too. I traced out all the hidden stuff in ours and took pictures of it with locations and put a copy in my service book for next time or the next owner.
Jon
This is a great thread to bookmark. I'd like to change the topic subject to make it more searchable. No offense, Kush. I do it all the time for future searchers. Anyone have some good suggestion for a relevant, searchable topic name?
Chris
Hi Jane, as Jon said, more in the category of gently tapping, only I usually use the metal part. I have a 6345 and I may actually replace it in the next few years. I don't plug in often, at home or RV parks. Solar and engine running are my main charge methods, which don't use the converter charging section.
I found schematics for the 6300A with google, that showed the relay on the drawing as only 3 wires, but I didn't find any pictures of the actual physical device. No doubt soldered into a PC board. If Kush has a 2001 'ish converter, possibly the same as mine, he should upgrade. He seems to spend some time plugged in, evidently lives in it, so he would easily benefit from a newer (not even considered new since the '70's) switching power supply with a more stage smarter level controller.
I've been thinking of following Kent's lead for a hybrid Lithium system, although I may keep a vestige of WLA just because. So I might end up with some newer converter system that is more anmenable to both. Addition of a CPAP and Dish antenna with Wally receiver generally points to more electrical capacity. I've already gone all LED lighting. The LCD TV has LED backlighting. So when I have a little more confidence I'll make a move.
I may be getting a whole set of newer issues instead by opting for a new Lazy Daze 2022 MidBath replacement. RonB
Hi Chris. How about "12 Volts only when plugged in" is that more searchable?
Chris, I was thinking "no 12V unless plugged in".
Ron, yes I figured it was an artistic tap but I just figured being an amateur I would tap un-artistically. :D
Most CPAPs run 12v and use a brick to change 120V to 12v, so you might want to get a 12V cord which is much more efficient (and low priced).
Jane
This is a great thread to bookmark. I'd like to change the topic subject to make it more searchable. No offense, Kush. I do it all the time for future searchers. Anyone have some good suggestion for a relevant, searchable topic name?
"Mid-Bath hidden circuit breaker location"?
Larry
"Mid-Bath hidden circuit breaker location"?
Maybe more generally "Hidden Circuit Breaker Location", so locations for other floorplans\years could be added to, and searched for in the same bookmark?
"Mid-Bath hidden circuit breaker location"?
Maybe more generally "Hidden Circuit Breaker Location", so locations for other floorplans\years could be added to, and searched for in the same bookmark?
Sounds good, if the thread is going that direction, I will add to the list.
2003 23.5' Front Lounge.
The circuit breaker is hidden in the driver's side chase, behind the rear barrel chair. If isn't at all visible until the chase's cover is unscrewed and removed.
Basic rule of thumb. Find the rear of the battery box from the interior side, it's a big back plastic box. The breaker will be located within a foot or two of the box, in the direction of the Power Center.
It's visible in most models I have looked at, with the exception of the 23.5' Front Lounge. It had to be hunted it down, knowing it had to be between the battery and Power Center and within two feet of the battery box. It isn't too difficult but does requires spinning a few screws to remove the chase's cover.
I will check out another model or two at December's LD Caravan. Joan wants to know where it's located in her 23.5' T/K.
So where are the breakers located in other models? Let us know if you know.
Larry
Our 89 TK had that breaker located in the power center area - inside the “vanity” cabinet right at the the coach entry door. But the original owners replaced the entire power center right after buying the LD so I won’t swear that was an original location.
That is a perfect location though as the battery bin (accessed from the outside) is on the backside of that cabinet.
Our power center is in that vanity cabinet, down low facing the center “hallway” of the LD.
The generator switch and old battery monitor is on that same cabinet on the side facing the entryway “hall” (eg facing the cab).
The breaker, if I remember right is on the same wall as the generator switch, about halfway up that wall, nailed to the inside of a wall stud. We have no doors or drawers In that cabinet. We have an access panel above the power center that is quite large so it is easy to get into that area - a lot of unused space but also the main location for electrical components. An access panel makes getting to things in that area very easy. I don’t know if that access panel was original or not, but the wood grain matches the cabinet extremely well.
Joan, is your power center in the same location? Do you have a way to get into that cabinet?
Jane
"Mid-Bath hidden circuit breaker location"?
Maybe more generally "Hidden Circuit Breaker Location", so locations for other floorplans\years could be added to, and searched for in the same bookmark?
Spot on, Bill. When we've had these discussions in the past about this bad boy, "hidden" always comes up.
Chris
Jane, the power center in my 2003 TK is directly under the refrigerator; there is no access from above or below. This is the original location, although the Parallax 7300 converter was replaced with a 45A 3-stage converter kit from Best Converter a few years ago.
As mentioned in an earlier post, the 100A fuse box is on the rear inside wall of the battery box, visible and accessible, but I suspect that the 50A circuit breaker is behind the power center, and getting to it will require removing the power center. Larry will trace the 'red wire' and find the 50A breaker; I just try to stay out of his way! ;)
Always wondered why LD elected to hide the breaker?
Hmmm, I wonder where the "hidden" circuit breaker is in my 30IB? Probably behind the pull out drawer under the refrigerator. I remember seeing a bunch of electrical things under there when I replaced the dometic refrigerator.
Like I said earlier the breaker in our 94 mid bath is under the dinette seat closest to the entry door. You almost have to stand on your head to see it. The 100 Amp breaker is at the back of the battery box, although everything back there is black so look hard.
Jon
Thanks to those who suggested subject titles for this thread.
Chris
I did a post via Yahoo but it never made it to this thread.
What is the purpose of these "hidden" breakers?
The one between the battery and the power center protect the power center from a battery issue (e.g. installed wrong).
But what about the second one? That one is between the battery and the 12 volt fixtures/outlets? Or between the power center and the 12 volt fixtures? What is it designed to protect?
Jane
The second one is to protect the wire going to the battery isolator.
In fact the isolator to coach battery wire need a protection on both ends, one at the coach battery and one at the isolator, since both ends can act as a source of power.
I am sure some one will ask why not on the converter end of the converter wire, the converter has the 120VAC breaker and usually internal limiters to protect that wire. The newer converters use two 30 amp fuses in parallel. In the older converters use an internal fuse or sacrificial element.
It turned out that there was some kind of delay and after awhile the 12V system started working again - which we discovered by keeping trying turning things on and leaving them in the on position instead of just turning them on/off quick. I wish I could explain it better.
It is unlikely there would be any intentional delay designed into the switchover, so I suspect an auto-reset circuit breaker had tripped - and then eventually reset itself.
Steve
I did a post via Yahoo but it never made it to this thread.
What is the purpose of these "hidden" breakers?
The one between the battery and the power center protect the power center from a battery issue (e.g. installed wrong).
But what about the second one? That one is between the battery and the 12 volt fixtures/outlets? Or between the power center and the 12 volt fixtures? What is it designed to protect?
There should be one between the battery and the run to the cab (battery isolator) and another between the battery and the power center. That is it. They protect wiring and connected devices against a short that would draw a tremendous current surge from the batteries.
Steve
Thanks Rodney & Steve
Jane
So where are the breakers located in other models? Let us know if you know.
On our 2009 MB, the breaker under discussion is located under the refrigerator on the left side when the drawer is removed. It looks exactly like the pic posted by Fern. (The battery box is accessible from the outside under the refrigerator on the driver's side).
On our 1997 mid-bath, the breaker was under the rear dinette seat, on the inboard, aft, upper corner. This location is directly above the battery box, on the path to the power center, which is across the aisle.
Mark H.
In 1988 I think Ed and Company had fun hiding the 12 volt circuit breaker within the "required" 18" of the battery, 36" of wire later! See them? 8" in front of the plywood battery box covered in automotive undercoat?
Battery box on the right, generator box on the left.
Try these photographs.
Try these photographs.
I still don't see them.
Follow the left ground wire, extend to lower picture center line, there are six studs with nuts. That is three of them. Two in parallel!
Follow the left ground wire, extend to lower picture center line, there are six studs with nuts. That is three of them. Two in parallel!
Here
Here
Thanks, Rodney. My low-tech vision would have never found that.
Chris
Hi Rodney. I'm glad that Lazy Daze's methods of wiring had improved substantially in the intervening 11 years before mine was built. The battery box in '99 was covered in something like Acrylic (thick) goo and painted black. The wires are all at the very top, in the back and not painted or 'gooed'. Just some caulking where the wiring goes through the wall of the battery box. RonB
Here
Are you sure this is a circuit breaker? I could under stand a barrier tie-point, but it does not make much sense as a circuit breaker. I would probe for voltage, and if there is 12V there, then follow thru both directions to see where they go. If it IS a breaker, I would replace it with a tie point and re-locate the breaker INSIDE the battery box.
Steve
Kush, did you EVER get this issue resolved?
This is a pet peeve of mine; so many people tried to help you and there was never a follow up post from you explaining if and how the problem was resolved. There could be other folks dealing with a similar problem in the future.
Please share the rest of the story,
Steve K