So with all the talk about battery life, I’m just curious. Will staying plugged into shore power 24/7 shorten or damage the coach batteries?
I have my ‘15 RB plugged in all the time. I’ve often wondered if this is causing my batteries to age prematurely.
Kent
I’m very curious about this too. Mainly during the winter months my when solar isn’t getting quite as much sun. When I purchased mine, the previous owner told me not to leave it plugged in because it would boil the batteries. So how long is too long? I thought maybe leaving them plugged in during the winter would help prevent them from potentially freezing but have no idea if there is any logic/truth to that thought.
A '15 rig should have a multi-stage charger in the converter which can be left plugged in all the time, IF you keep the electrolyte topped off - using a ProFill system is ideal. The '08 does NOT have such a converter, so best to NOT leave plugged in all the time - and still use a ProFill....
Steve
There is a lot of misinformation out there about this subject. A lot of it comes from folks in the desert SW where in summer it is not a good idea to leave any converter on 24/7 as its float voltage is probably too high for the ambient temperature. As long as the ambient temperature is under 70 F. and the float voltage is under 13.8 volts (no matter what kind of converter you have) there should be no problem at all leaving it on 24/7. Measure the voltage at the battery after it is fully charged and with AC plugged in and if you measure 13.79 or less, have no fear this time of year, probably even in the desert SW. Always check the water level in each cell very couple of weeks, tho, as cells age they can use water differently, and you never want the level to reach the plates.
Rich - in the pacific NW where we don't have to worry even the summer
Just a note....my previous post assumes wet cell batteries....all others have their own requirements.
Rich - Birch Bay, WA
Thanks Steve and Rich. I was planning on leaving my rig plugged in over the winter here in Maryland which is typically anywhere from 20s-50s. I winterized it for the first time of my ownership (just bought it this past summer) this year and being my first winter with my LD I wasn't sure about lenght of plugging it in. I usually check my batteries every three weeks or so and top them off with my pro fill system. My batteries are at least eight years old and possibly the original batteries so I plan on getting some new Trojan T105s this spring since I'm sure I must have a dead cell by now.
Our ‘15 came standard with AGM’s. Got back from breakfast at Curry and the voltage was still at 13.5 Honestly I was pleasantly surprised.
Thinking of parasitic drains I unplugged my 12 volt Blu-ray Player thinking that it may be the culprit. I have set it up to feed directly off the 12volt outlet near the entertainment center. If the voltage remains at normal levels, perhaps my worries are over.
Still can’t wait to head to AM Solar for my Christmas In July.
Kent
And here is another perspective:
Our tug has a bank of 4 Lifeline AGM 6 volts, the same type as the Lazy Daze. Last summer, they all got tired and I had to replace them after only five years. I thought this was premature (and really expensive) and called the Lifeline Tech support. When we are at the dock, the tug is always plugged into dock power.
The tech at Lifeline told me that the batteries have a limited number of charge cycles. Since the tug has several systems on when at the dock (refrigerator, propane sensor, etc), there is a constant 12v current draw and the batteries are then recharged to full. According to the tech, these recharge events count against the charge cycles. He said that he gets complaints from RVers and boat owners that their batteries fail prematurely based on their ages, but he says they are failing at the prescribed time based on the charge cycles.
He recommended that we leave the tug in the slip with everything turned off (except for the automatic bilge pumps, which draw no current when not activated) and not connected to shore power. He said to make sure to recharge the batteries when they drop some voltage over time and this will significantly extend their lives.
I suspect that the same is true for the Lazy Daze, since they are the same batteries. Unfortunately, the Lazy Daze might need a good battery disconnect or the ground pulled off to keep the batteries from seeing a parasitic draw during storage.
What do our battery experts here think of this?
There is a lot of misinformation out there about this subject. A lot of it comes from folks in the desert SW where in summer it is not a good idea to leave any converter on 24/7 as its float voltage is probably too high for the ambient temperature. As long as the ambient temperature is under 70 F. and the float voltage is under 13.8 volts (no matter what kind of converter you have) there should be no problem at all leaving it on 24/7. Measure the voltage at the battery after it is fully charged and with AC plugged in and if you measure 13.79 or less, have no fear this time of year, probably even in the desert SW. Always check the water level in each cell very couple of weeks, tho, as cells age they can use water differently, and you never want the level to reach the plates.
Rich - in the pacific NW where we don't have to worry even the summer
Rich, for 16 years I kept my '02 under canopy and plugged in year round when I was not using it. I put the 22B solar controller on "shore power". Here in the Denver area, over that time period, temp extremes were from -15 to 100*. The converter was on, of course, but not running much in storage. Perhaps I was lucky, but I never had any problems.
Chris
Chris,
Like you, I keep my RV (my LD was a 2000 with the single stage charger) plugged in 24/7 whenever I'm not using her. That is especially important in winter when I keep a small electric heater in to keep the inside above freezing and a little dryer than it would be otherwise with all our winter rain here in the Pacific NW. In Denver, with the weather changes you get (just remembering when our daughter attended UC in Boulder) the hot temps probably never stayed around long enough for you to worry. My batteries lasted over 9 years, but we have to remember that newer rigs have newer technology batteries, of which I know very little. I'm sticking with the good old wet cells for the rest of my RVing days.
Rich - Birch Bay, WA
"...the previous owner told me not to leave it plugged in because it would boil the batteries."
That 'May' be true, but only if the charge voltage is too high. ::)
"... for 16 years I kept my '02 under canopy and plugged in year round when I was not using it."
Ditto on what Chris said... my '04 30'IB has been sitting in my side yard connected to a 30a circuit from my house for nearly 16 years (except when we are out on the road). During this time I've had both the wet cell Trojans and more recently the GPL 4CT LifeLine AGMs. I have not encountered any issues that could be blamed on being plugged in 24/7/365. ;) ;D
To give me more peace of mind I upgraded the 7300 Parallax in my 2003 TK with a three stage unit from:
Upgrade Kits for Magnetek/Parallax (http://www.bestconverter.com/Upgrade-Kits-for-MagnetekParallax_c_64.html)
I first heard of Best Converter when I replaced an even more ancient 6300 Parallax converter that was in a '92 class B. I've been very happy with Best Converter's service.
What converter does LD use now days?
Roadrunner...I think you mentioned you have a 2008 LD. That probably was equipped with a 3 stage charger. If I had a 3 or 4 stage charger (and if it didn't do this automagically), I would turn it off once a month or so, let the batteries drain a little, and then let the charger do its thing, which I assume would include running the voltage up to 14.5 V or so for a fairly short time to better condition the batteries. This is again, assuming wet cells, and with this exception, doesn't change my post about leaving it on 24/7 under most conditions.
Rich - member of the alumni - post 2000MB - Birch Bay, WA
Roadrunner...I think you mentioned you have a 2008 LD. That probably was equipped with a 3 stage charger. If I had a 3 or 4 stage charger (and if it didn't do this automagically), I would turn it off once a month or so, let the batteries drain a little, and then let the charger do its thing, which I assume would include running the voltage up to 14.5 V or so for a fairly short time to better condition the batteries. This is again, assuming wet cells, and with this exception, doesn't change my post about leaving it on 24/7 under most conditions.
Rich - member of the alumni - post 2000MB - Birch Bay, WA
Thanks Rich. Yes, I have the factory pair of Trojan T105s in my rig. I have a rear bath...is the charger accessible to see what model/make it is? I haven't looked into its location as of yet. Been topping off my batteries about once a month even though they have hardly needed it using the Pro fill system.
Blueox25 - exceeding cycles which creates battery problems makes sense to me. I have had some concern about this but I have seen that our smart charger doesn't charge the battery regularly when on shore power. However, I would bet while on shore power it charges at times for Stage 3 (STORAGE Mode) and Stage 4 (EQUALIZATION Mode).
It is supposed to be smart enough to not overcharge/undercharge and therefore extend battery life but I would love to see the historical data that shows this.
I suggest for anyone who really wants to know how best to get their battery to stay good as long as possible to check with the battery manufacturer as they can tell you the full information.
I would also check with the charger manufacturers (main one and solar) and know what to ask to get them to say what they are not telling you.
Having a smart charger that knows to not charge batteries when they are full (does a trickle charge only when needed), can be set to the exact charging levels your battery manufacturer says are best, uses battery temperature to help determine when to charge or not, etc. will help your batteries last longer. However, the smarter the charger the more expensive, so each person needs to weigh out costs (smarter charger vs batteries more often).
I would love something that tracks and keeps historical data on what the charger and battery are doing (e.g. temps, voltage, when charges are done - what voltage level and for how long). That with experimentation would be the only real way to know what works and what doesn't (for each specific battery/charger combo).
While that information is often available you have to go look at it all the time time so much more effort is needed to gather the information and figure out patterns. I have not yet seen one that tracks and keeps historical data, but I expect we will see that in the next 5 years or so.
Jane
I would love something that tracks and keeps historical data on what the charger and battery are doing (e.g. temps, voltage, when charges are done - what voltage level and for how long). That with experimentation would be the only real way to know what works and what doesn't (for each specific battery/charger combo).
While that information is often available you have to go look at it all the time time so much more effort is needed to gather the information and figure out patterns. I have not yet seen one that tracks and keeps historical data, but I expect we will see that in the next 5 years or so.
Jane
Check out Victron
SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 & 100/50 - Victron Energy (https://www.victronenergy.com/solar-charge-controllers/smartsolar-100-30-100-50)
We park our 98 ~ MB in a hanger when we are not using it and we plug it in 24/7 and throw off the circuit breaker for the charger. We plug a 12v battery maintainer into the battery system. We leave the refrigerator on 110v and its cooling fans which are 12v, the propain detector 12v and our bluesky solar controller which is not contributing power but does draw a little. I also check the water levels on our batteries once every two weeks. When there is a chance of freezing temperatures on Vashon in the Puget sound I set up 3 - 250 watt heaters on a timer and each one set in a strategic place, the kitchen, bathroom and pull a drawer to the vanity to get heat to the hot water heater. We keep our 98 ~ MB full of water, propain and gas and is ready to go at a moments notice or be a "lifeboat" if necessary. When we are leaving for an extended period of time, three months or more we will shut down all the systems, pull the fuse on the propain detector, shut off the refrigerator and cooling fans, pull the added fuse to the bluesky and plug in the battery maintainer. This has worked with this LD and our itaska which we have had since the 80s.
Karen~Liam
98 ~ MB
NinA
Check out Victron
SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 & 100/50 - Victron Energy (https://www.victronenergy.com/solar-charge-controllers/smartsolar-100-30-100-50)
Glen, Thanks. I checked this out. It looks like the BMV 712 will connect to the internet and then have access to the data with the program (with an $80 item, maybe more since I am not near one of their gateways), but it was not clear that I would be seeing additional info without a solar charger (their BMV 712 demo was not working). I sent an email to the tech guys to confirm what I would see before throwing money at it. Might be better to wait till we install solar and check it out then.
Victron does seem to be at the head of the pack for getting the best use out of your batteries.
Jane
It apparently depends on our systems and our experiences. In general manufacturers recommend flooded lead acid batteries be fully charged and disconnected in storage.
i purchased both of my rigs the batteries were shot. Both rigs had the old Magnatek 6300 single stage chargers set to 13.8 volts with a rated limit of 3 amps and fused limit of 10 amps. One set must have died from lack of charge as the charger diodes had failed(from Wisconson). The other set had been on shore power for three years and had boiled dry(from San Diego). I installed split breaker in both rigs and separated the converter from the outlets. Replaced the batteries. I stored them fully charged and disconnected. Dead cells Freeze and crack cases in cold weather. Cracked cases thaw and spill weak acid. I turn off the converter while on shore power in storage. I disconnect the house batteries and solar system when i send it for chassis repairs as my rigs have been left indoors on the service racks for months at a time.
Okay, I’ve been charging the OLD and FAILING AGMs in our ‘15 RB twice a day while here in Yosemite. Within 5-6 hours they have drained into the “Danger Zone”
Solar is working fine when the sun sneaks through the trees in camp and sends a charge to the coach batteries as indicated by the Blue Sky panel.
Knowing that the fridge and propane detector rely on the coach batteries, I am not confident that the discharged AGMs will continue to provide adequate power.
With our upcoming Solar Upgrade, I am hesitant on spending the money on a new set of lifeline AGMs and would prefer to drop in two 6 volt Costco batteries to get us through until July.
Is it a simple matter of swapping out the AGMs for the 6 volt golf cart batteries or will I need to change any settings in the Blue Sky Solar controller?
Sure wish I’d have swapped them out before this journey. My DW deserves a better holiday.
Thanks,
Kent
Kent your our #LazyDazeTopGun you know what to do! I’ll be your wingman anytime 🥳🐯
Okay, I’ve been charging the OLD and FAILING AGMs in our ‘15 RB twice a day while here in Yosemite. Within 5-6 hours they have drained into the “Danger Zone”
With our upcoming Solar Upgrade, I am hesitant on spending the money on a new set of lifeline AGMs and would prefer to drop in two 6 volt Costco batteries to get us through until July.
Is it a simple matter of swapping out the AGMs for the 6 volt golf cart batteries or will I need to change any settings in the Blue Sky Solar controller?
For the short term, a set of Costco batteries would be your best, least expensive choice. I wouldn't worry about the Blue Sky.
Too bad it's such a long drive to Merced to pick up a new pair. Day trip?
Larry
Larry,
We are in the Valley till Thursday am so I’ll wait till I get back home.
Shouldn’t be a problem till then right? What could possibly go wrong?
Thanks,
Kent
"Okay, I've been charging the OLD and FAILING AGMs in our '15 RB twice a day while here in Yosemite."
Kent
Your "Failing AGMs" may not be the problem. Recently my AGMs were failing to take a charge. A check in at my local RV Hospital revealed that there was corrosion on the ground leads to the batteries. Can't elaborate, LazyBones2 was in charge that day. ::)
Kent, I agree with Steve S that it might be worth it to check connections as they do corrode over time and then it looks like something it out when there is just not a good connection. Make sure they are securely attached also (battery and power center side).
If that doesn't fix it, then I would vote for the costco batteries.
Make sure AM Solar goes over with you thoroughly, what you would need to do to keep up your new batteries. Ask what upkeep is needed on AGM vs Lithium. They should give you the full information the manufacturer provides as well as their experience.
Jane
The Vote Is In...and the winner is...Costco...
I had my head, literally, inside the battery bays few a days prior to this trip. Everything is clean as a whistle. The batts take a perfect charge but can’t hold it long. 🤨
I’ll get in there again today and examine all the cable tightness but if they take the initial charge and drain so quickly I’m unclear as to why corroded cables would be the culprit.
Thanks.
Kent
What is the warranty on the original batteries?
What is the warranty on the original batteries?
Kent's batteries are four years old and Lifeline does advertises their AGM have a five year warranty.
Deep Cycle Marine Batteries - Lifeline Batteries (https://lifelinebatteries.com/products/marine-batteries/)
Unfortunately, he does not qualify for replacement, instead for a prorated charge. It isn't going to be much since 80% of he warranty time has expired.
Off to Costco.
Larry
I’ll get in there again today and examine all the cable tightness but if they take the initial charge and drain so quickly I’m unclear as to why corroded cables would be the culprit.
Kent, haven't been following the thread recently, but with the batteries fully charged, disconnect them, and check them each a couple days later. If they test ok, then reconnect and see how they do in the short term. You may have a phantom parasitic load that needs to be traced before your next step.
Steve
Greg, Steve,
I lean toward Larry’s appraisal of my AGMs. LD mentions the batts should last 5-6 years if “properly maintained”. A little too much of this and that and little less sun here and there and I’m afraid I have two nice AGM slices of toast.
No worries. They have served me well and will be recycled with the best of them.
Out for my morning ride in the cool morning air enjoying a nice Cup-O-Coffee and a Hazelnut Danish at Degnan’s. People watching as the crowds thin out.
Life is sweet.
Thanks,
Kent
Kent, enjoy a cup (and danish) for me! Are you aware of the incoming winter storm? We are expecting snow tomorrow.
Greg,
As I was picking up my second set of Danishes, the clerk said they were closing Tioga Pass tomorrow or the next day and the Valley was expecting snow ☃️ this afternoon.
The CG Host said they had expected snow yesterday. Just another reason I like the 140 to Merced.
Thanks for the heads up.
Kent
Hi Kent. I know that you are careful with your batteries. Maybe too careful! Lets say you never discharge them very deeply. The lead surface on your 'ready and waiting' plates will develop some (a thin coat) of sulphate on the surface. Equalization once a month or so is meant to prevent this. I've noticed that after a long time in the driveway, the first few times actually using the batteries, the output voltage will sag quickly, but I keep using them anyway. I also chalked some of this to stratification of the acid in the battery. After a few 'deep' (not actually below 40% left) cycles that the batteries would perk up and act more the way they should. Hey, if you're going to replace them anyway, might be an interesting experiment. You'll find that the Costco batteries are a lot better than you are expecting. Not as durable as the Trojans, maybe, but easily 4 years life at a lot less cost per year. If your present batteries have really lost that much capacity, you'll have way better capacity with the Costco WLA new ones.
The ground wire Lazy Bones was referring to isn't in the battery box. It is attached to the frame below the box and exposed to the road grime, weather and corrosion underneath. High resistance there will prevent proper discharge and charging currents. Voltages might look near normal. Turn on a few lights to get some current flowing, observe your indicated battery voltage, then clip a jumper cable (I know you have a heavy duty set with you. Just the black) to the ground side of the batteries. When you clip onto the ground under the hood of your engine battery, does your indicated voltage go up? If it does, your battery box ground isn't doing its job.
For your upgrade to Lithium....how are you going to protect them from below 32 degree weather, temperatures? RonB
"The ground wire Lazy Bones was referring to isn't in the battery box."
Ron
Thank you ever so much for your concise explanation. That was not communicated to me so that I could comprehend it the 1st time around, but remembering back it's precisely on point. At first I wondered how AGM batteries could 'corrode' so now I understand, it was not the battery terminals, but something else. :o ::) ;D
Hi Steve S. I was trying to change the oil in my generator for the first time and was crawling around under the coach with a strong light and noticed my ground wire was not in the best shape. My battery box is next to my entry door (aft) and above the generator. I took the connection apart and cleaned the surface of the frame member, and the wire terminal. Re-assembled it and sprayed it with black paint to seal it from the elements better. Sometimes I use black spray-on undercoat, but the asphalt type is messy to clean up. Now I use a polyurethane spray. Even harder to clean up, but more permanent.
Back to the original topic; Originally I would plug in my coach (in my driveway) a few days a week, but my original primitive converter could potentially overcharge the batteries to their detriment if left too long. After I installed solar with a MPPT more intelligent charge method, I don't plug in unless I need 110VAC. I have a motion sensor outdoor patio light that I leave on. My driveway lights up at night when someone walks by, a little more security, and the solar takes care of that power drain. RonB
I climbed under the rig yesterday and R&R’ed the frame battery grounds. They were actually in good shape. Wire brushed everything and all looks pretty clean.
Charged the batts by 7 pm. At 10:30 the controller read 13.1 By 5 am it read 10.8 or thereabouts.
Oh well. Wadda ya goin ya do?
Thanks.
Kent
Hi Kent. 10.8 should read 12.8, about 2 volts too low. So 2 + volts per cell, sounds like a shorted cell. You don't have to disconnect anything, but a voltmeter can show you which battery is the unfortunate one. Read a 4.2 volts instead of 6.3. I was between Las Vegas and Zion when that happened to me.(about 2007) St.George had a new Costco and I did a battery swap in the parking lot. I had forgotten my tool box, but had an 8" crescent wrench in an inside drawer. Did the trick with about an hour loss of time and some $$. I used a scouring pad from dish washing to clean the terminals. I'm more careful to have my toolbox with me now. Well stocked I used it for some household chores and forgot to put it back in the motorhome. RonB
Ron,
Interesting info. I also try not to let the batteries go too low. We do have a smart 4 stage charger that does equalization regularly.
We are seeing issues where we charge up fine but the battery drops low quicker than in the past (needs a charge after 2 days, not 4 days).
We are a month or so shy of the 2 years into our Costco batteries. Here in Phoenix, because of the heat, we go thru batteries (and tires) quickly – our car batteries last about ½ the time they did in other states, so if you say Costco 6V last 4 years it sounds like we are on track timing wise with the condition of our batteries (I ordered the testers you recommended and just got them).
I just got the battery testers you recommended so I will see what they tell me.
Jane
Ron you said that for the Battery ground wires located under the coach...
...I took the connection apart and cleaned the surface of the frame member, and the wire terminal. Re-assembled it and sprayed it with black paint to seal it from the elements better. ... Now I use a polyurethane spray. Even harder to clean up, but more permanent.
Ok, Ron. I gotta ask. You have a connection of the ground wire (coming from the battery) to a connection spot under the coach (likely a screw, maybe a small bus). You clean it, connect it securely, then...
Spray it with black polyurethane paint?
I am struggling to get my head around this, with my background in sticks and bricks spray painting electrical connections is unheard of. However, I understand you do want to prevent exposure to elements and you want something that lasts (e.g. electrical tape would not last very long, a small breaker box might be overkill)...
Often at connection points with screws there is a little bit of bare wire exposed. So to take the place of the wire sheathing that protects the wire you paint it? What about flexing over time, does the paint flex with it (or such a small spot no flexing happens)? Does the paint stick well to the insulation as well as the wire?
Curious minds want to know :D
Jane
The paint is applied after the bare part of the wire is screwed down onto the frame. It is a ground wire. The paint keeps water and other contaminants from getting in to cause corrosion. It is easy to clean off if you later need to redo the connection.
Sticks and brick house wiring should be in dry locations. Your electrical panel is usually wired to a ground nearby outside. Sometimes a water line or separate grounding post driven into the ground. (gas lines are a no-no, most are plastic these days) Those ground lines actually carry no current, but are called 'bonding' wires. More for lightning strikes, static and equipment failures, etc. They are usually open to the air (no paint) On the motorhome there actually could be current flowing through parts of the iron frame, and waterproofing by paint is common. Of course it makes it harder to inspect the condition of the connection too. You also don't want water seeping back under the insulation. You could put a blob of sealant or caulking on the termination, but you are just connecting to the steel frame.
Batteries located in the engine compartments of cars are exposed to a lot more heat than just the weather outside. So they do wear and fail sooner. Also they are exposed to water spray and freezing weather more than house batteries. Hopefully house batteries are slightly more protected from temperature extremes. RonB
I spoke with LifeLine Battery customer service this afternoon about my AGM’s. After a speaking with the very friendly gentleman, I came away with a bit of information that I wasn’t expecting.
He mentioned that my charging time while camping was most likely only a surface charge. A true full charging cycle can take up to 4 hours while plugged into shore power.
He also mentioned that our 200 watts of Solar was insufficient to fully charge our AGM’s. He did not say that it was due to the seasonal sun angle. He simply stated that 200 watts was insufficient to do the job. (It’s for sure that the shade doesn’t help matters).
He was very generous in offering to check out the batteries if I wanted to drop them off. I may do that. We spoke for a bit longer and I explained my discharging difficulties.
He did say that 24/7 charging was ok and that they need occasional equalization. It was my understanding that AGMs needed no equalization. (I believe it said this on the panel of the Bluesky 3000i or in the LD manual) He said that AGMs do need the process. Rats!
On the subject of Lithium’s, he said that they have, as of yet, not been a proven battery technology for the RV industry. He cautioned that Lithium battery’s have a 70% DOD (everything I’ve read said the DOD is 80% and the recharge rate is much quicker than AGMs).
We spoke of future battery technology. When I inquired about a possible Lifeline Lithium offering, he mentioned that they may have a Lithium battery sometime next year. There are certainly a lot of changes happening in the power storage industry.
AM Solar will be installing 125 Ah LifeBlue Lithium batteries. 4 such batteries will theoretically provide nearly 400 Ah of power. 6 100 watt Solar panels, I am hoping, will maintain a full charge. I have read, though, that Lithium batteries prefer a 70% charge so I should be good to go.
The 8 1/2 hour drive home from Yosemite yesterday had indeed done my coach batteries some good. They never dipped below 12.9 overnight and well into the morning and by then the Sun was adding power and has done so for nearly 8 hours.
I did mention to LifeLine, that RVers are almost doomed to suffer low charge rates this time of year due to low sun angles and short charging times. Then taking into consideration the shade we often encounter during sunny seasons we may have a difficult time of maximizing our RV batteries.
When our AGMs were new this whole problem didn’t exist. And who knew about the AGM equalization thing. The RV lifestyle can sure keep you on your feet.
I need a cup of coffee.
Kent
AM Solar will be installing 125 Ah LifeBlue Lithium batteries. 4 such batteries will theoretically provide nearly 400 Ah of power. 6 100 watt Solar panels, I am hoping, will maintain a full charge. I have read, though, that Lithium batteries prefer a 70% charge so I should be good to go.
Lithium batteries should be charged to 100% IF you plan to use charge overnight. They last longer if kept at a lower level of charge while in storage, though.
Steve
Time for an upgrade, Kent?
Powerwall | The Tesla Home Battery (https://www.tesla.com/powerwall)
You need some donuts too, you deserve a break today 8)
A true full charging cycle can take up to 4 hours while plugged into shore power.
He also mentioned that our 200 watts of Solar was insufficient to fully charge our AGM’s.
He did say that 24/7 charging was ok
On the subject of Lithium’s, he said that they have, as of yet, not been a proven battery technology for the RV industry. He cautioned that Lithium battery’s have a 70% DOD (everything I’ve read said the DOD is 80% and the recharge rate is much quicker than AGMs).
Kent,
What you are being told is not real far off from what I have read/been told.
In my talking to manufacturers, different batteries are different.
I spoke to Victron engineers (THE guys who know about the Victrons) a couple years ago. I was specifically asking about if a load pulled down the voltage output of the battery. They said their batteries are above 13 Volts with (I forget it if was none or a negligible pull down of voltage) up until 80% DOD. After that the voltages dropped if there was a load on them.
LifeLine may have a different DOD.
"24/7 charging is ok .. " - I would qualify that with "if you have a smart charger" that knows what levels to charge at and when to stop charging. [From your posts sounds like you have this, I am adding it so others check what charger they have before assuming it is ok for them also.]
Solar being able to fully charge or not, I think that really depends on your usage each day. I have read of people who fully charge on their solar no problem and never plug in with no real battery degradation, while others say they have to have to charge with shorepower regularly (every 4 days sticks in my head). I don't think the answer is as simple as yes / no.
Victron was well established with lithium a couple years ago when I had my first talk with them and I didn't find that level of knowledge at the other companies I was talking to. I will be talking to the engineers again in the next week about another issue (included is discussions on issues of being able to get a full charge off shore power or not). I will ask them if in their opinion Victron feels that Lithium for RV has been fully flushed out (including charging and discharging while boondocking, recharging with solar only if possible, with generator if required).
Jane
I'm no expert more like student level ...... but its been my observation that tires and batteries are a never never ending point of conversation and observation. I think the problem is we all use our tires and batteries in a different personal way. This leads to all sort of personal conclusions that seem to be true to us. The manufacture can give us general guidelines but have no control of the use of their product.
What, to me, is amazing is our tires and batteries work as well as they do in as many different applications we put them to.
glen
Hi Kent,
Was that your rig in the Upper Pines Campground at Yosemite? We were there for 2 nights in Thistle Dew Too, and decided to beat a hasty retreat before they closed Tioga Rd. Sorry we didn't see you milling around. You can see our pictures on our blog if you are curious.
I have a larger solar system (also from AM Solar) and 4 AGM batteries, and frankly there is just too much shade in Upper Pines, especially this time of year, to keep the batteries fully charged. We were down to about 80%, and even ran our generator once just to keep them from going lower.
I think you can make do until you visit AM Solar next year. Good luck!
Hi Steve and Carol,
We were in Upper Pines in Site 222 from the 10th to the 21st. So yes that was us, most likely. I saw only two LD's there during our stay. Were you there twice over the week? Neither LD stayed more than a couple of days.
Saw a cute little trailer near your site. Did you see that one. Probably easy to keep warm.
Riding through camp on our bikes, I did notice a LD with a nice couple at their picnic table. It was cold...and my DW wanted to get inside. I, on the other hand, wanted to say howdy. Oh well. The chill won out. ❄️
You were gone the next day so accept my Howdy now. ☃️ Camp was pretty bare wasn’t it. Kind of a ghost town after a while. There were actually sites available for walk ins prior to our departure. That is seldom seen, if ever, during peak seasons.
Next trip is Morro Bay. Hope to see you there.
Kent
94-TK
I have two Interstate 6V Deep Cycle RV Batteries… Something was left on, batteries are dead. If I plug into shore power will my batteries charge?
Hi Chris; First, you may not have left much on. Lead acid batteries have internal leakage and will discharge at a rate of 1 to 4% per month (depending on internal condition and age) all by themselves without any help. Some propane detectors draw in excess of 1/10 Amp. That is about 2 Ah per day. Two 6v batteries, about 220 AH capacity, at 50% discharge that's about 50 days. It adds up. Modern LP detectors are about 1/3 of that. One thing I've seen personally is leaving the heater on, set at a low temperature, but not off. During the night the temperature gets cold enough to turn the fan on, but it can't heat because the propane is shut off. So the fan runs all night until it warms up in the morning, and the fan shuts off. You don't know unless you are out there in the cold. Worse you can run out of propane.
You might have the original converter in your '94, like my old 6345. It disconnects the batteries and supplies the house with up to 45 amps. The disconnected batteries are connected with a mediocre charger, about 3 amps, and no protection about overcharging. 3 amps may not damage a battery quickly, but you really want a 3 or 4 stage charger, with a lower float voltage that won't damage batteries. The old converter does a poor job of charging the batteries when they need it the worst.
Your batteries should be ok though as long as you are plugged in. Otherwise check for left on lights. RonB
94-TK
I have two Interstate 6V Deep Cycle RV Batteries… Something was left on, batteries are dead. If I plug into shore power will my batteries charge?
You can try plugging the rig in and seeing what happens.
Lead-acid batteries do not like being left fully discharged, it is very destructive to them, the batteries are most likely not usable anymore or will have limited recharge capacity.
If your LD still has the original converter new batteries will be at risk of an early death, think about upgrading to a modern, multi-stage converter. The older chargers were well known for often overcharging the coach battery.
Upgrade Kits for Magnetek/Parallax (https://www.bestconverter.com/Upgrade-Kits-for-MagnetekParallax_c_64.html)
If planning on storing your LD for long periods, consider adding a battery switch or disconnect the battery when not in use.. As Ron pointed out, there are small drains on the battery when not in use.
Adding solar panels and a solar controller can help keep the batteries charged, our LD's converter is always left off when stored, letting the solar panels charge the nbatteries.
Larry