Starting this thread as an off shoot from the LD Won’t Start Thread.
One of the biggest reasons for a Solar Upgrade is, for me, to prevent unintentional over discharging of our house batteries.
I’ve decided to use AM Solar for a couple of reasons. LDOG has praised them highly and I believe they will provide the best service.
I do intend to have the wiring upgraded to accommodate the additional panels. I would like to have 400 to 600 watts if the panels will fit our 27’ RB. I still want some real estate up top for walking about for service and cleaning.
It appears that the Blue Sky Solar Boost 3000i is limited to 400 watts so I’m not certain how this upgrade will pan out but I have a sneaky suspicion that someone here or at AM Solar will lead me to a successful upgrade.
Here’s a shot of the OEM Solar array and the roof access panel to the controller.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated. In the meantime I’ll hit the archives and reach out to AM Solar. I know they are very busy and an installation needs to be scheduled in advance. So I’ve got time on my side.
Another nice thing about AM Solar is their location. My brother has a second home not too far from them. This will be the perfect opportunity to take him on a road trip and get him out of Colorado for a bit.
Always planning ahead...while I still can.
Kent
Kent, sounds like a good plan. I assure you that AM Solar will plan a system for you in which the components work well together.
Ten years ago, the rule of thumb was, one panel per battery. I have 6 batteries and I got 4 panels, later upgraded to 5. I would have gone for 6 if I had the room. Key, though, is AM Solar did my system. When I added my 5th panel they did it. When I replaced my 9 year old, but still good, AGM battery bank with new ones, they did that, too.
Good luck with the system.
Ken F in NM
Ken,
With our RB, there is available space inside for AGM’s under the dinette seats. The original AGM’s are going on 4 years old and the battery bay is very near the dinette. It looks like we will have 5 new AGM’s when it’s all said and done.
I’d like to keep them close to each other so this placement would most likely limit us to 5 total AGM’s. With that in mind and the “one battery per panel” rule, it would limit us to 5 panels. I’m ok with that.
I do wonder about the issue of battery weight. Will having 5 AGM’s on the same side of the rig risk an unbalanced coach? I’m sure AM Solar will have all the answers.
Better start saving my pennies. 💰
Kent
Kent, I have a Midbath. That puts the dinette area behind the cab seats. My AGM's are 6 volt units, so I needed an even number. I went with 6, and they do fit under the longer dinette seat, along with a whole house inverter. I do not have any batteries in the original exterior battery space. I use it for storage. In that configuration, the batteries are all abutting one another, are all at the same temperature, and the run to the heaviest load, the inverter, is less than one foot. I find it to be an excellent arrangement.
When I had my rig weighed, I did it with the waste tanks empty, the gas and water tanks full, and me, at (then) over 300 lbs, in the driver's seat. My left and right front weights were both 2300 lbs. My left rear was 4700 and my right rear was 4800, so the weight of my battery bank, 6 AGM's all on the right side. was not a problem at all.
Ken F in NM
Maybe it is time to go lithium. You don’t need as many of them and they are 29lbs vs 55lbs.
Split the project into batteries and panels. Do the batteries yourself and contract the solar.
There is some thought that lithium is cheaper than AGM over time but maybe not.
Lithium is certainly a better battery. Lighter, quicker to charge to full.
I have 200ah lithium and 225ah of lead acid. They arguably function as if I had 650ah of AGM and cheaper. The downside is you have to do the battery work yourself.
With lithium they charge so readily that there is less emphasis on large solar arrays. I only have 200 watts of solar. Some class Bs are choosing to skip solar because 15 minutes of generator will cover it.
Total investment around $3k.
Just another solution to the problem.
I have all the power I need in freezing conditions to run the furnace and satellite TV but it does require a daily 30 minute generator run. The initial charge rate is over 100 amps so it doesn’t take long. Both battery banks are at 100% at sunset, rain or shine.
Downside? You do have to pay attention to it, choose when to use FLA and when to draw down the lithium. Lithium is used to charge the FLA when the sun is lacking which is another switch.
If the hybrid system doesn’t grab you consider 300 or 400ah of lithium and an empty FLA box. Run that with 200 watts of solar and see how it works. You will find your solar panels work better with lithium.
With our RB, there is available space inside for AGM’s under the dinette seats. The original AGM’s are going on 4 years old and the battery bay is very near the dinette. It looks like we will have 5 new AGM’s when it’s all said and done.
I’d like to keep them close to each other so this placement would most likely limit us to 5 total AGM’s. With that in mind and the “one battery per panel” rule, it would limit us to 5 panels. I’m ok with that.
One panel per battery isn't a rule, is just a suggestion and doesn't take into consideration what size the panels are.
Common sizes of panels are 100-watts and 160-watts. which size fits the "rule".
Our LD has had 400-watts of solar and four 6-volt T-105s batteries for 15 years and we almost never run low on power. If it occurs, it's always during the depths of winter when parked for several days in the same place, with some shade.
The very few times we ran low, the generator, along with a much larger converter, has helped but I doubt if we have run the generator more than 20 hours, over the last ten years, to charge the batteries.
Staying with 400-watts of solar enables keeping the otherwise perfectly acceptable Blue Sky 3000i, just needing to have the lead in wiring, from the panels, upgraded.
As Ken pointed out, five batteries will require switching to 12-volt batteries, 6-volts batteries need to be installed in pairs, wired in series-parallel . There is no electrical advantage running similar size 6-volt batteries vs 12-volt batteries.
Before proceeding, i would weight the rig with a full water tank and then with full holding tanks. While Am Solar are whizzes with electrical upgrades, they are not too concerned with weight placement. You need to be responsible to ensure the rig is well balanced.
Larry
400 watts sounds like a sound option at this point. 200 has served us fairly well so two additional 100 watt panels would suit me fine.
While our AGM’s are perfectly fine with me, I am considering Lithium as an upgrade. After watching the “Wynn’s” lithium battery review, the cost difference is pretty much a moot point. The amp hour storage capacity of Lithium is also a huge consideration.
Lifeline GPL-4CT AGM Marine/RV Battery 6V Volt 750CCA Amazon.com: Lifeline GPL-4CT AGM Marine/RV Battery 6V Volt 750CCA: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FNZ8Q4H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_19oKDbTY7D2PJ)
Renogy Lithium-Iron Phosphate Battery 12 Volt 100Ah for RV, Solar, Marine, and Off-grid Applications Amazon.com: Renogy Lithium-Iron Phosphate Battery 12 Volt 100Ah for RV,... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075RST4R2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_VapKDb18MKFCG)
Obviously, I am still in the planning stage and the actual project is yet to be finalised, but my thought is that if Two Lithium Batteries will fit the existing Battery Bay then they will go there. If not, then I’ll most likely place them under the rear dinette seat. The forward dinette seat shares its compartment with the existing battery bay and allows access to the Fresh Water Tank Sensors and Wiring harnesses.
It’s all really very exciting. I always enjoy putting in LD upgrades. It’s like a Birthday and Christmas rolled into one. 🎂/🎅🏻
Thanks
Kent
Kent, a reminder Lithium doesn't do well with heat so if you are putting them in your old battery bin cover the vents and add insulation. Adding some holes to the interior will help keep that area close to inside LD temperatures.
Jane
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone (https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS)
May I add either buying portable solar panels or building a set will be cheaper then what ever AM Solar comes up with.
Advantages of building a 'personal' portable solar panel
1. you can upgrade the parts at will.
2. take them or leave them at home depending on camping trip
3. move them to match the movement of the sun
Disadvantage
1. finding storage space in rig
2. setup and take down time at camp spot
3. growing legs and moving on their own
<smile> I agree thinking and doing upgrades are one of my fav past times .......
glen
p.s. if I may point ya to my post of my experience building my 'learning' system .....
Homemade Portable Solar Panel Built (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=33245.msg201883#msg201883)
Glen,
You said, “Disadvantage
1. finding storage space in rig
2. setup and take down time at camp spot
3. growing legs and moving on their own”.
After chatting with Larry, I believe it was at the MBGT, I nix’ed the idea of portable for those same reasons. It was also mentioned that the resistance in the power cable was excessive and the gain in solar charge would be lost accordingly.
Overall, for me, I believe the roof top array will serve me better although I had given some thought to going portable to be able to move the panels out of the shade.
Thanks for sharing your experience. There’s so much to learn about Solar and upgrades.
Kent
Lithium doesn’t do well in “cold” and needs to be inside. I expect you will end up concluding the batteries need to be in the forward dinette. No holes need be drilled to get the wiring where it needs to go.
I have two GP 31 batteries, two 60 amp lithium battery chargers, one DC to DC charger, a 1500 watt inverter and a transfer switch in there.. You should be able to put 3-5 batteries in there.
400 watts sounds like a sound option at this point. 200 has served us fairly well so two additional 100 watt panels would suit me fine.
While our AGM’s are perfectly fine with me, I am considering Lithium as an upgrade. After watching the “Wynn’s” lithium battery review, the cost difference is pretty much a moot point. The amp hour storage capacity of Lithium is also a huge consideration.
Lifeline GPL-4CT AGM Marine/RV Battery 6V Volt 750CCA Amazon.com: Lifeline GPL-4CT AGM Marine/RV Battery 6V Volt 750CCA: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FNZ8Q4H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_19oKDbTY7D2PJ)
Renogy Lithium-Iron Phosphate Battery 12 Volt 100Ah for RV, Solar, Marine, and Off-grid Applications Amazon.com: Renogy Lithium-Iron Phosphate Battery 12 Volt 100Ah for RV,... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075RST4R2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_VapKDb18MKFCG)
When it comes to cost, lithium and AGMs are getting very close to each other.
Wish there was more long term experience with lithiums used in RVs, I hope they are more dependable than AGMs, they should be less prone to damage, assuming the built-in BMS functions correctly .
Even with a larger converter, our LDs cannot produce high enough charger rates to take full advantage of a lithium battery's capability to charge at very high rates. For our usage, lithium's light weight is the main advantage
The downside for me is the cost and how much usable power is stored. Two Renogy 100-amp/hr batteries will cost close to $2000 and have 180-amp/hrs of usable power, before needing recharging. A pair of 100-amp/hr Victron lithium batteries will cost considerably more, $2700 for the pair.
Victron Energy LiFePO4 Battery 12,8V/100Ah Smart (https://www.invertersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=31009&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInteWooD55AIVax-tBh2zignVEAYYASABEgLEIPD_BwE)
Four AGMs will provide 220-amp/hr of useable power for about $1600. AGMs still hold the cost advantage.
.
Years ago when adding batteries to our LD, I didn't want the expense of AGMs or their weaknesses. LD had big problems when the AGMs were introduced, the converter being used would overcharge and destroy the AGMs, sometimes within months of purchase. I wanted a battery that wasn't so sensitive and easy to destroy. I had installed and used hundreds Trojan batteries for a couple decades at work and was impressed with their durability in commercial use.
A rack was built and mounted under the frame to hold four Trojan T-105s and installed a remote watering system.
Battery tray- new | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602104740457/)
Replacing the T-105s today cost about $700 for a total of 440-amp/hrs, with 220-amp/hr usable.
Trojan T-105LPT-MV Group GC2 Battery (https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1?lsf=seller:115393526,store:11181699426133316991&prds=pid:17991760352310208167,oid:17991760352310208167&q=trojan+t-105+battery+los+angles&hl=en&ei=ECeSXbCzB9jY-gS3uYygBA&lsft=gclid:EAIaIQobChMI4q_B5PX45AIVeR-tBh1A9QuMEAQYBCABEgI73vD_BwE#)
Our existing battery pack is eight years old and still functioning adequately.
It's hard to beat the value and practicality of lead-acid batteries, as long as they can be mounted outside in a ventilated compartment or inside an air tight enclosure, ventilated to the outside. Our 23.5' FL did not have a good spot inside for extra batteries but did have a location under the floor. Luckily, lead-acid batteries are not as sensitive to temperature extremes as lithium batteries are.
Larry
"Even with a larger converter, our LDs cannot produce high enough charger rates to take full advantage of a lithium battery's capability to charge at very high rates."
Larry, I agree with many of your points, but I disagree with this statement. Yes, very few RVs in our class can pump in current as fast as the battery can take it... in bulk mode. But with lead-acid batteries, after that comes absorb mode, where the charger trickles in power more and more slowly until a full charge is reached. That can easily take hours. Anybody with a Victron solar controller and lead-acid batteries can look at the VictronConnect app's History page and see how many hours a day the controller spends spoon-feeding power in absorb mode.
The big advantage of LiFePO4 batteries is that they stay in bulk mode right up until they're fully charged. They skip the time-consuming absorb stage. With lithium batteries it's full speed ahead--whatever your charging system can deliver--until 100% is reached.
This means shorter generator run times. It means more effective use of midday solar power. For comparable amp-hour ratings, lithium batteries get charged up faster than lead-acid batteries, regardless of how much or how little power your charger can deliver.
Absorb mode wastes time. With LiFePO4 batteries, it's "bulk and done." That's an important advantage.
"It was also mentioned that the resistance in the power cable was excessive and the gain in solar charge would be lost accordingly."
That depends upon the length and gauge of the cable. You can easily figure out what will be lost using a voltage drop calculator. (http://www.nooutage.com/vdrop.htm) For example, a single 18 V (Vmp), 100 W panel--the most common type--connected with 25 feet of #10 cable yields a voltage drop of 2.1%, bringing the voltage down to 17.6V. That's acceptable for most people. If you really want to be efficient, going with two panels in series would cut voltage drop to 1%, again assuming 18 V 100 W panels and 25' of #10 cable.
I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't put panels on the roof, although some RVers with smaller rigs do get by with only portable panels on the ground. But there's nothing that says you can't have both, and there are big advantages to having the option of parking in the shade while setting out a panel or two in the sun...... or supplementing your roof panels with ground panels on a cloudy day. I've been doing this for years. My latest rig, the tiny Trillium, will have 140 W on the roof (all I can fit) and 100 W on the ground when needed.
I finalised my Solar Upgrade with Garret at AM Solar and will have the installation done mid July of 2020. It’ll be a five day installation.
Needless to say the project will be quite intense:
1) Two 100 watt panels added to my existing two 100 watt panels. 6 gauge wire in place of LD’s 10 gauge.
2) Two LifeBlue 125 Ah Lithium batteries and all associated upgrades.
3) A Victron or Xantrex 2000 Watt Inverter/80 A charger.
While there, I may look into adding a quick connect for portable Solar Panels and the possibility of adding two additional Lithium batteries.
Over the past few years, I’ve been mostly successful keeping the Two AGM batteries charged with our two 100 watt panels. More of a challenge when traveling with guests. This upgrade should make power usage less of an issue.
It will definitely be “Christmas In July”.
Kent
Do you mostly boondock, Kent?
Greg,
We do visit Zion/Watchman CG every year but mostly National Parks without hook ups. Watchman, thankfully, does have power pedestals which is a huge help if the weather is hot since they do not allow generators. We no longer go there in the summer.
Longer trips like Yellowstone will give us a chance to hook up at RV Parks but generally we rely on the Solar/Generator/Engine to charge the coach batteries.
I’m constantly watching the state of charge on the AGM’s. Heading to Yosemite in a week or so and the sun will be difficult to find.
Not sure where I’ll stay yet while getting the upgrade. AM Solar says that staying in the rig can add a 25% upcharge in the cost of installation. A hotel is cheaper. Any suggestions? 🥴
So yeah, we mostly “dry camp”.
Kent
"AM Solar says that staying in the rig can add a 25% upcharge in the cost of installation. "
Hmmmm - we stayed one night at their "site" by the restroom. Our bill was in excess of $7K. I hope we didn't pay ~$1750.00 for that one night with no hook-ups!
This was under Greg and Deb, so it may be different now, but . . .
Virtual hugs,
Judie
2) Two LifeBlue 125 Ah Lithium batteries and all associated upgrades.
3) A Victron or Xantrex 2000 Watt Inverter/80 A charger.
The two 12-volt, 125-AH lithium batteries, will provide 200-AH of usable capacity, will be almost double of the existing AGM's maximum usable capacity of 110-AH, when the existing AGMs were new. AGMs and lead-acid batteries loose capacity as they age, figure around 10% capacity per year of age.
Unless you plan on using the inverter a lot for appliances with high power needs, 250-AH of lithium batteries should be adequate with 400-watts of solar. I would stay with one brand of components, probably the Victron, to eliminate any incompatibility issues.
If planning on adding portable panels, make sure the solar controller is capable of handling the extra amperage.
Be prepared for a high labor charge, in addition to the components. It's a big job.
You could save a bit of money installing the panels and replacing the lead-in cabling yourself. It's not technically difficult.
The inverter is a more difficult installation, requiring large cable crimpers for the battery cable lugs. The heavy, 0000-gauge cable is hard to deal with in tight quarters.
Larry
Not sure where I’ll stay yet while getting the upgrade. AM Solar says that staying in the rig can add a 25% upcharge in the cost of installation. A hotel is cheaper. Any suggestions? 🥴
So yeah, we mostly “dry camp”.
Kent
Have no recommendation of sleeping or eating in Eugene/Springfield. To me it's just a jumping off point going east on the Willamette Pass east. I do like 5th Street Market of baked goods.
Below is a old link based on snow but its good for assorted view and picnic spots.
Willamette Pass Highway tempts travelers with roadside attractions -... (https://www.oregonlive.com/travel/2014/01/willamette_pass_highway_tempts.html)
One of my fav drives thru the Cascade Range. A must stop is Salt Creek Falls
Shared album - gr hafford - Google Photos (https://photos.app.goo.gl/wsorM9yj3jeAuVwu5)
glen
"The heavy, 0000-gauge cable is hard to deal with in tight quarters."
In 1991, we installed a 2000-watt sine wave inverter in Gertie (1985 TK), and I vividly recall being sent to NAPA for bundle after bundle of that "four naught" stuff!
Needed a wheelbarrow to get it to the car from the store!
Virtual hugs,
Judie
“I would stay with one brand of components, probably the Victron, to eliminate any incompatibility issues”.
I agree, Larry. When I posed the installion of the inverter capable of running small appliances (in particular my wife’s hair dryer 🥴), Garret first proposed the Victron 2000 Watt unit.
I was concerned about fitting the Victron in the rig and the Xantrex has a more compact profile. When Garrett assured me that the inverters can reside on their side, I deferred to him as to the best choice between the two. I will stick with the Victron for several reasons compatibility being one of them.
Upon arrival we will work out all the finer details. I’m pretty excited about the whole thing.
Judie, I believe a one night stay is pretty standard at no extra charge. As my plans for the system progressed, the installation went from 3 days to 5.
I’m hoping my brother will join me on this journey and we can stay at his second home on the Siletz River. My dear sister has volunteered to join me in any case so I do have some options.
The upgrade will be perfect for our upcoming journey to Yellowstone. Now she’ll be able to microwave her tortilla for her morning meal. 😉
Kent
Kent, I won't even ask what this upgrade will cost you! :o
"Judie, I believe a one night stay is pretty standard at no extra charge. As my plans for the system progressed, the installation went from 3 days to 5."
Three to five days seems like a long time. I'm thinking we were there for two days having the whole shebang installed - four AGM's, 2000-watt sine wave inverter, wall read outs, and probably other "stuff" that I don't know about that happened behind the scenes. Our floorplan is the same as yours. The batteries and inverter are under the dinette seat closest to the front of the rig, with the read out instruments on the wall behind the other dinette seat.
"The upgrade will be perfect for our upcoming journey to Yellowstone. Now she'll be able to microwave her tortilla for her morning meal. 😉"
Has she ever tried heating a tortilla in a frying pan? A tiny spritz of water to pre-heat a 10-inch frying pan with a cover - and they soften to perfection. If one is filling and then sealing the tortilla, this is done quickly and deliciously by moistening the rolled or folded-over edge with a bit of water to hold it together and then let it snuggle up (overlapped side down) with a smidge of ghee or avocado oil in the pan to completely seal it, and cook it to the desired brownness. It will crisp up enough to make this tiny effort worthwhile.
Any number of possible fillings, with fresh salsa, sour cream, black olives, grated Cheddar, mild chiles on top . . . OY - I'm making myself hungry here!
Virtual hugs,
Judie
[quote author=Kent Heckethorn date=1572123476 link=msg=209513
Not sure where I’ll stay yet while getting the upgrade. AM Solar says that staying in the rig can add a 25% upcharge in the cost of installation. A hotel is cheaper. Any suggestions? 🥴
[/quote]
AM Solar has onsite overnight parking, with hookups, allowing customers to stay while the rig is being worked on.
When I did installs like this, I would recommend that the owners pack a bag and go away for whatever amount of time the project was going to take to complete.
Having the owner in the way was one issue that slows the job, the other is having to keep the rig livable, usually adding a couple hours a day, time that needs to be paid for. This can easily add 25% to the labor cost.
If AM Solar is charging a hundred dollars an hour, reducing the daily charge by two hours pays for a nice motel up in the mountains or at the beach. Another option is flying home from Eugene, returning in a week.
Who wants to sit in a waiting room 8 hours a day, while the rig is being worked on, Oregon is a beautiful state, get out and explore it, you will find many places you will want to revisit, in your LD.
Larry
Greg,
I’m well past the sticker shock. Now it’s all about the anticipation.
https://youtu.be/PDJ_Mz8ftqI
Ya only live once.
Kent
Larry,
Once the installation begins, I’ll most likely wander around. Running around the Oregon Coast is a wonderful way to while away the days. Years ago, my DW and I stayed at a B&B on Devils Lake near Lincoln City. That was fun.
I absolutely love the rugged Oregon Coastline.
Kent
Kent you are going to have a better solar system in your RV than I have in my off grid house. Will you adopt me?😀
“Will you adopt me?😀”
Mike, well ah, no...but I’ll make you a cup of coffee and charge your phone. 😏
Kent
Kent you are going to have a better solar system in your RV than I have in my off grid house. Will you adopt me?😀
It's amazing how the technology changes in just a few years... ;)
Judie,
For some reason, my sister tends to forget the simple prep techniques. Warming things on the stove top is as easy as it gets. I even purchased a stainless/copper cup for warming her latte milk.
Her typical breakfast is a tortilla with peanut butter and a banana. For me it’s a cup of coffee and a piece of toast (toasted on a skillet).
She admitted yesterday as to being a chef of limited skills and simple tastes. As easy as that sounds, dinner out can be a real challenge. 😏
The inverter will definitely be a welcome addition. I love upgrades.
Kent
It's amazing how the technology changes in just a few years... ;)
Yes it definitely is and if you go back a few decades it's like another world.
In the mid 70s we lived off grid for three years and since no power or phone line reached our cabin we had no electricity and no form of communication outside of phone booths in town and snail mail. We had a 12 volt 13 inch B&W TV that we ran off a single 12 volt battery and watched until the picture got smaller and smaller and finally blinked out when the battery went completely dead. ( And I complained about batteries lasting only six months or so. LOL) I recharged it by starting my pickup the next morning and then switching the dead battery with the fresh one for that nights use before leaving for work. Our lighting at night was kerosene lamps. No internet and I once bought my wife a hand held calculator whizz bang new technology gadget for $50.00 which at that time was a days pay.
Looking back it's amazing how far and how fast technology has progressed and a few decades ago seems like the dark ages.
Interesting discussion about "olde times"! Not only was I raised on a homestead in Alaska in the 1950s without running water or electricity, but then in the 1970s I raised three small children (two in cloth diapers at the same time) outside Fairbanks for over seven years through winter temperatures of minus 60 degrees for weeks at a time, also without running water or electricity... and no solar power, generator, television or driveway for parking closer than 1000 feet through the woods. Getting a tiny propane refrigerator and battery operated record player was the ultimate upgrade! In the 1990s I went away sailing for eight months, but then had 12-volt power and a foot pump for seawater. You can imagine how my lovely LD shocked me with modern everything, and after investing in solar power boondocking has been absolute luxury! (Yes, thanks to this forum I insisted on 6 gauge wire in case of future upgrades!) It's good to be reminded that people lived "without" for thousands of years.
Kristin
1997 LD MB
Our generation has seen some amazing changes but we pale in comparison to the previous generation.
Just finished a great book on Frank Hammer the Texas Ranger that got Bonnie and Clyde. He started out chasing old west criminals on horseback with a six gun and transitioned to high speed auto chases with gangsters armed with Thompson submachine Guns. Great read!
Amazon.com: Texas Ranger: The Epic Life of Frank Hamer, the Man Who Killed... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0166SEUTQ/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)The
Good part of a broken shoulder is plenty of time to read. Going to doc today to see if I can start using my arm again. Hopefully you will see a lot less of me after today. No more one arm Sawyer.
"In the 1990s I went away sailing for eight months, but then had 12-volt power and a foot pump for seawater."
Kristin, I recently replaced the Shurflo electric water pump in my little Trillium trailer with a Whale Babyfoot pump (https://www.amazon.com/Whale-Marine-BABYFOOT-OPERATED-GP4618/dp/B003ELUZHK), and I love it! Of course the Trillium has no flush toilet or shower--just the one sink. But the foot pump gives me perfect, hands-free control over water flow from that faucet, which can be anything from a trickle to a torrent. It's simple, silent, and uses no electricity. Not surprisingly, it was recommended to me by a sailor friend. :-)
That little foot pump delivers pretty much the same GPM as the old Whisper King! ;)
"That little foot pump delivers pretty much the same GPM as the old Whisper King!"
Yup, the Babyfoot pump puts out up to 2.2 gallons per minute. As I recall, the Shurflo Whisper King (standard on many Lazy Dazes in the Eighties) delivered 2.3 gpm. So this rugged little $40 rubber bulb does the same job, but with no electricity and no moving parts other than a non-return valve.
Of course a foot pump wouldn't work well for taking a shower, although it could probably be adapted for flushing an RV toilet. But in my "simplified" Trillium, it does a great job of pumping water into the kitchen sink, and that's all I need. :-)
Andy,
The pump would make a great backup if the RV’s electric water pump should fail and installing the backup shurflow we all carry would be an inconvenient option at the time.
Always nice to have alternatives in a pinch.
Kent
It would be hard to do that, Kent, because a foot pump not only has to take its supply directly from the water tank, but it needs to be located at the point of use--in my case, directly in front of the kitchen sink. I suppose you could T off the line from the freshwater tank and T back into the line just after the electric pump... but then you'd have a foot pump sitting on the floor that one person would have to operate while the other person used the sink, shower, or toilet. Such an arrangement would probably be too clumsy to be worthwhile.
Oh well. Just a thought. May as well swap out the on board pump. Of course if all you need is fresh water to cook and freshen up, you can always fill a container from the Fresh Water tank drain valve. 💦
Kent
Yesterday, I noticed just how much room I actually have below the forward dinette seat. There should be plenty of room there for the Victron Inverter and more.
I’m actually contemplating additional Lithium batteries, possibly four in total. I noticed a DIY installation on YouTube where a gentleman installed six Lithium batteries in his TT with a similar Victron 2000 watt Inverter/charger. He has 800 watts of solar. https://youtu.be/4j6wiIoT_SM
With my 4 100 watt panels, is there a practical limit to the number of lithium batteries I can install? I like the idea of having more usable battery power but can the panels charge that many?
Kent
"I like the idea of having more usable battery power but can the panels charge that many?"
Based on previous discussion in this thread, you're talking about 400 to 500 amp-hours of battery storage capacity and 400 watts of solar panels on the roof. That fits the traditional "one watt per amp-hour" rule of thumb.
But as we've discussed before, if you often camp in shady sites, in cloudy areas, or in the winter when days are short, you may want more watts per amp-hour to keep the batteries charged. On the other hand, if you're a night owl, you may need more amps of battery capacity per watt to get you through the dark hours.
One thing to keep in mind is that unlike AGMs, LiFePO4 batteries don't have to be brought up to 100% every day or even every week--in fact, most experts say that these batteries are happiest in the 30% to 80% range. So if you get a few cloudy days, it isn't as big a deal as it would be with AGMs, where you're always trying to hit full charge as often as possible. It took me a long time to get over that "Must get to 100%!" lead-acid mindset. Old habits die hard.
In the end, you just have to take your best guess based on your camping style. If you end up with more batteries than your solar panels can recharge, you can run your generator to make up the deficit.
Personally, I'd much rather not do that. I've been traveling without a generator for more than two years now, with 600 watts of panels on the roof and 320 Ah of LiFePO4 batteries under the bed. Going by the "1 W:1 Ah" rule of thumb, that's solar-panel overkill, but I figured as long as I was going to go to the trouble of putting panels on the roof, I might as well fill it up.
The combination has served me well, but bear in mind that I'm mostly camping in the Southwest. When I spent a summer in the Pacific Northwest, some of the heavily wooded campsites there required me to use portable panels laid on the ground and move them several times a day to keep them in the sun, because my array on the roof was getting next to no sunlight. But right now it's winter and I'm camping in the desert. Although my panels are pretty dusty, I'm doing fine.
There is a bucket load of interesting information on/about solar power and batteries.
May I suggest this Forum. It has advise and vids for and from beginners to the experts.
DIY Solar Power Forum (http://www.diysolarforum.com/index.php)
glen
Andy, Glen,
Thanks for your guidance. I’ve been watching all that I can find on Solar & Lithium upgrades.
I want to be as prepared as possible when I meet with Garret at AM Solar in July. In regards to my “planned” upgrades, he mentioned that when I arrive in Springfield, there may be other options available that we can explore.
I do want the new system to be as upgradable as possible. As Andy mentioned, shade and winter sun present a problem. With that I will continue to keep an open mind to my upgrade possibilities. 🌤
Kent
A thought ....
Solar Panel Recharge Rate is Battery Watts/Hours divided by Solar Panel Watts. I.E. If you have 200 Watt/Hour Battery Pack and 100 Watt Panel equals 2 hours to recharge batteries ---assuming prefect conditions. Numbers are just reference as there will never be prefect conditions. All sort of stuff degrades or enhances the issue.
In other words Device Watts Hours /Solar Panel Watts = Solar Recharge Time.
glen
P.S. My plan as of today is to built a 'portable' system to test on our winter trip. The 'standard' panels on the LD are about 41" long and 21" wide. IMHO there is no good way to improve this layout soooo I'll need to augment with 'portable' panels.
I'll update as I settle on the parts.
Hi Steve (Lazy Bones),
Figured I’d respond on this thread to avoid diverting interest from Matt’s request for a local Solar Installer.
Anyway:
I’m not sure about the logistics of AM Solars plan of attack on my 5 Day Build. I would imagine my LD will be off limits for overnight use during the installation. But I’ll get a better feel for that when I get there. I certainly don’t want to slow their flow.
As Larry said, the week can be a perfect opportunity to explore the area. A Lodge and a rental car will be the easiest approach. With that in mind, July is prime travel time for families so I’m currently working on a game plan to book lodging for my sister and myself.
No sooner than the job is completed we will be headed to Yellowstone (Sep. 2020) to put the new Solar System to the acid test. It should be much better than my current array and battery bank.
Kent