I'm in a state park and due to leave in an hour. My LD will not start.
It's trying but just won't catch. I tried a jump pack a couple of times (which has worked in the past) but the result is the same. I hear it trying to turn over but it just won't catch. I think I have a starter problem.
Back in the day with my Gremlin when this would happen, I could tap the solenoid or starter and it would work. I don't know where either of those is located on my LD.
Any suggestions before I call a tow service?
If the engine cranks you have electricity. If it cranks it is not the starter. If it tries to fire but all 8 or 10 cylinder don’t catch you may have either an ignition or fuel problem.
Without knowing which engine we can be little help. You might want to post year and make. I think it may be in your signature but if a helper is on a cell phone they will not see that info.
One other thing. Newer cars have a Capacitive discharge system. It takes a minute or so for that system to charge fully if the battery is low. Leave the jumper cables on a minute or two before cranking the motor.
I'm on the Ford E450 Superduty. I recently replaced the Fuel Pump and Filter.
Due to flooding in this area (but not where I am) the tow truck can't get to me until 5 pm and are towing my to a Ford dealership about 50 miles away.
I'll leave my jump pack on until then and keep trying about every 30 mins.
I'm off to go pay for another night here just in case (Water & Electric for $15, so that's lucky).
" I recently replaced the Fuel Pump and Filter."
That may be the cause of your present failure. I'd have it checked as soon as you can. :o
Does the starter spin at its normal speed or does it sound slow?
You mentioned having to use the jumper previously, why ? Was the battery low or did it have problems starting?
I assume the "Check engine" or "Service soon " light is not illuminated.
A mechanic can check the fuel pump with a pressure gauge. The ignition is more difficult to troubleshoot due to the difficulty of getting to the engine, the doghouse has to come off.
Do not leave a lithium jumper connected to the starting battery for long periods, especially after the engine starts.
While you are waiting, do you have the ability to charge the jumper?
If so, give it an hour or two charge and then try again. Some engines will spin near the normal speed but will not start due to not enough voltage to run the engine's computer and ignition.
There isn't much you can do with out the right tools, knowledge to use them and good troubleshooting skills, a skill set that many mechanics lack.
Larry
" I recently replaced the Fuel Pump and Filter."
That may be the cause of your present failure. I'd have it checked as soon as you can. :o
I had it installed mid-July, so I don't think that would be the problem.
Anyway, since I am towing a Jeep, I went into the nearby town and found an O-Riley Auto Parts. I told them the problem and decided to purchase a new battery (I've had to jump this one multiple times).
Chase at O-Riley offered to come to the state park and install it for me (you meet such nice people when RVing). Glad he came with me because I purchased the wrong size battery. Also, as my luck would have it, the LD started while he was there. He suggested I drive right over to the store so they could replace the battery with the right size and make sure the alternator was okay.
So far, everything seems to be good. I'll know for sure tomorrow when I head out.
BTW, this new battery has an 800 number I can call and if there is a problem they will send someone to me wherever I am, to check or replace it.
Fingers crossed!
Does the starter spin at its normal speed or does it sound slow?
Sounded normal to me.
You mentioned having to use the jumper previously, why ? Was the battery low or did it have problems starting?
I assume the "Check engine" or "Service soon " light is not illuminated.
Previous jumps were due to a dead battery (I no longer leave anything plugged into the 12-volt sockets in the cab and I've always kept the stereo off unless I'm driving).
No check engine or service lights. I have a Scangauage and it shows no error codes.
A mechanic can check the fuel pump with a pressure gauge. The ignition is more difficult to troubleshoot due to the difficulty of getting to the engine, the doghouse has to come off.
Fuel pump and filter were installed mid-July.
Do not leave a lithium jumper connected to the starting battery for long periods, especially after the engine starts.
While you are waiting, do you have the ability to charge the jumper?
I left the jumper (a Halo Bolt) attached to the battery for a little over an hour while I went to pay for an extra night at this park and to seek help elsewhere in town. It did start right up when I got back.
If so, give it an hour or two charge and then try again. Some engines will spin near the normal speed but will not start due to not enough voltage to run the engine's computer and ignition.
Purchased a new battery in hopes that will solve the problem.
Thanks for the troubleshooting tips!
Purchased a new battery in hopes that will solve the problem.
Thanks for the troubleshooting tips!
Hope you get it fixed quickly and make it back to Morro Bay in March.
Looking forward to meeting you.
Larry
Anyway, since I am towing a Jeep, I went into the nearby town and found an O-Riley Auto Parts. I told them the problem and decided to purchase a new battery (I've had to jump this one multiple times).
So far, everything seems to be good. I'll know for sure tomorrow when I head out.
Fingers crossed!
I don’t know you but I’m proud of you. You used all the resources you had and in a short time you’re back on the road. It doesn’t get any better than that. Well done.
For Debbie, you can run your radio when you want to. Unless somebody changed it, Lazy Daze wires the radio to your house batteries. They will run down instead.
Having the correct battery in place for the chassis is always good. The bigger the better. You should install a Trik-L-Charge to keep it charged up, although you may not sit in one place very long. The Trik-L-Charge is better for rigs that sit in a driveway for long periods of time without being run; but with solar you can keep all of your batteries topped off. RonB
I don’t know you but I’m proud of you. You used all the resources you had and in a short time you’re back on the road. It doesn’t get any better than that. Well done.
Aww, thank you! You've my made my day!
For Debbie, you can run your radio when you want to. Unless somebody changed it, Lazy Daze wires the radio to your house batteries. They will run down instead.
Having the correct battery in place for the chassis is always good. The bigger the better. You should install a Trik-L-Charge to keep it charged up, although you may not sit in one place very long. The Trik-L-Charge is better for rigs that sit in a driveway for long periods of time without being run; but with solar you can keep all of your batteries topped off. RonB
I upgraded my stereo and I'm not sure it's wired to the house batteries. In fact, when the new battery was installed, the stereo turned itself on. It had been off after the old battery was removed.
My travel style so far, is to move every 2 to 7 days (except when I visit my mother). The shorter stays are usually just to break up a long-distance drive that would be over my normal 3 hours.
I do have 170 watts of solar (planning to get more) and 2 Battleborn batteries for the house. I wish I could trickle charge off those, or even use them to jump the chassis battery.
Deb,
It’s not uncommon for me to fire up the engine of our rig every few days while camping to charge the chassis battery via the alternator. Solar is great but often there will be too little sun to charge the house batteries and the chassis battery.
The chassis battery will not receive a charge from your panels until after the coach batteries are topped off. By then there may be insufficient sun to send a charge to the chassis battery.
I, personally, carry a dedicated battery charger, a lithium ion jumper battery, and a long extension cord (to run the battery charger) and a high quality set of jumper cables. 😉
Don’t forget to check the water level in your new chassis battery (if not maintenance free) every few months and top it off with purified water if necessary. I’ve made that mistake. 🤗
Best with all you travels and LD happenings.
Kent
Use *distilled* water in batteries (and in the coolant mix); “purified” water is not free of minerals.
Deb,
It’s not uncommon for me to fire up the engine of our rig every few days while camping to charge the chassis battery via the alternator. Solar is great but often there will be too little sun to charge the house batteries and the chassis battery.
I was doing that for a while. I was running the engine for 30 mins every day for a week (due to having to jump-start the battery again) before I took off on this 2.5-week leg to East Texas. It just doesn't make sense to me that the battery would die or weaken so quickly.
The chassis battery will not receive a charge from your panels until after the coach batteries are topped off. By then there may be insufficient sun to send a charge to the chassis battery.
Just learned something new! I didn't know the solar panels charged the chassis battery at all. I thought they only worked on the house batteries.
I, personally, carry a dedicated battery charger, a lithium ion jumper battery, and a long extension cord (to run the battery charger) and a high quality set of jumper cables. 😉
Have the lithium charger. Actually one in each vehicle (Halo Bolt 58830). Got rid of the jumper cables a while ago. Might have to re-think that. :-)
Don’t forget to check the water level in your new chassis battery (if not maintenance free) every few months and top it off with purified water if necessary. I’ve made that mistake. 🤗
The new battery is maintenance-free (unlike the old one). I too have made that mistake. It has been so many years since I've had to add water to a battery that it didn't cross my mind (until recently), that I would have to do so with my LD. Live and learn!
Best with all you travels and LD happenings.
Kent
Much thanks! Looking forward to crossing paths with other LD owners on the board. :-)
Use *distilled* water in batteries (and in the coolant mix); “purified” water is not free of minerals.
Yep, I keep a gallon jug in the Jeep. :-) The coolant I have for both vehicles is pre-mixed.
The chassis battery will not receive a charge from your panels until after the coach batteries are topped off. By then there may be insufficient sun to send a charge to the chassis battery.
Unless Deb's 2003 LD solar controller has been changed out to one that charges both the house and stating battery, the starting battery is not charged by either the stock Heliotrope solar controller or the converter.
The Blue Sky 3000i, the solar controller used by the Mothership for several years, does have this useful feature.
It automatically keeps the starting battery topped off. The 3000i is good for up to 400-watts of solar.
Blue Sky Solar Boost 3000i (https://amsolar.com/rv-charge-controllers/cctlr-bs-mpp-030a)
Larry
My error, I did mean distilled and not purified water. In the midst of testing Kindergarten kids for English and I must have lost my head.
Kent
Hi Debbie; " Just learned something new! I didn't know the solar panels charged the chassis battery at all. I thought they only worked on the house batteries."
No it doesn't. As Larry stated the BSky 3000i has an output to charge the chassis battery. Even if you have that controller, your 2003 didn't come with the wiring to charge the chassis battery, and even if you upgraded to the BSky 3000i, you would still have to run the wiring to take advantage of it's extra feature. Kent's newer coach (2015) came with the BSky 3000i and I presume was wired by LD to charge the chassis battery.
First, find out if the radio runs off of the chassis battery. If it does, there is a reason why the factory hooks the radio to the house battery. If you upgraded the radio the installer was probably un-aware of how to install it properly. Only the 'keep alive' power that keeps the stored keys and programmed functions memorized should be hooked to the chassis battery. The actual power to run the faceplate lighting, and audio amplifier (the power consuming part) should be wired to the house batteries! At nightime (no solar) disconnect the house batteries. If the radio stays on, it is wired to guarantee a deadchassis battery. That just cost you a $150 or so. Likewise your 12vdc sockets at the front dash are usually run by the chassis battery. (ask Kent). I believe some came wired to the house batteries. Older ones, pre 1997. I've rewired mine to run on the house batteries Tapped off of and fused with yellow wire next to the CB radio and radio fuses, under the hood, which came from the LD factory that way. They are low power mostly to run the GPS and charge cell phones. I hope this clears up some of the confusion. RonB
For Debbie, you can run your radio when you want to. Unless somebody changed it, Lazy Daze wires the radio to your house batteries. They will run down instead.
Having the correct battery in place for the chassis is always good. The bigger the better. You should install a Trik-L-Charge to keep it charged up, although you may not sit in one place very long. The Trik-L-Charge is better for rigs that sit in a driveway for long periods of time without being run; but with solar you can keep all of your batteries topped off. RonB
Ron,
does the factory solar panel trickle charge the chassis battery as well? I was under the assumption it only charged the house batteries. I am one of the "sits in the driveway awhile" since we can only get away for weekends mostly (mostly used for summer adventures since we have small kiddos)
Hi Brewer. You are correct for your model year, 2008. The solar charges the house batteries only. For newer coaches say about 2014, The factory took advantage of the second output of the Blue Sky 3000i solar controller and ran a wire to charge the chassis battery also. It only works if the house batteries are near full charge, and the solar panels are capable i.e. daylight. Obviously the controller isn't going to take power from the house batteries to charge the chassis battery.
If you upgrade to a BSky 3000i in an older coach, you would have to provide the charging wire yourself. A really easy way is to provide your own charger like I did years ago. Ultra TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer (http://www.lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html) is a newer model. Mounted under the hood, just a ground wire and a wire each to terminals on your diode isolator. Just three wires total. It senses when the voltage on your house batteries is high (charged) and trickles some to the chassis battery. It won't overcharge that battery. RonB.
Hi Brewer. You are correct for your model year, 2008. The solar charges the house batteries only. For newer coaches say about 2014, The factory took advantage of the second output of the Blue Sky 3000i solar controller and ran a wire to charge the chassis battery also. It only works if the house batteries are near full charge, and the solar panels are capable i.e. daylight. Obviously the controller isn't going to take power from the house batteries to charge the chassis battery.
If you upgrade to a BSky 3000i in an older coach, you would have to provide the charging wire yourself. A really easy way is to provide your own charger like I did years ago. Ultra TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer (http://www.lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html) is a newer model. Mounted under the hood, just a ground wire and a wire each to terminals on your diode isolator. Just three wires total. It senses when the voltage on your house batteries is high (charged) and trickles some to the chassis battery. It won't overcharge that battery. RonB.
As always, thanks for the great info and new knowledge Ron! I understand the concept after looking at the TRIK L START website but I must admit I don't know where the diode isolator is. I recently replaced my chassis battery and only noted the typical positive and ground wiring to the chassis battery...where is and what does the diode isolator look like? I've still got a lot to learn! Thanks again.
must admit I don't know where the diode isolator is. I recently replaced my chassis battery and only noted the typical positive and ground wiring to the chassis battery...where is and what does the diode isolator look like? I've still got a lot to learn! Thanks again.
Your 2008 LD's should have a relay battery isolator instead of a diode isolator, it is located in the engine bay, on the inner side of the driver's side fender, behind the coolant reservoir .
Larry
Hi Brewer. I don't know when LD switched back to mechanical relays to isolate the house batteries. This might be a similar relay. 200 AMP High Current Automotive Relay Car Dual Battery Isolator 12V DC... (https://www.walmart.com/ip/200-AMP-High-Current-Automotive-Relay-Car-Dual-Battery-Isolator-12V-DC-Marine-RV/657824500?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227296277496&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=361205485905&wl4=aud-566049426705:pla-780422451522&wl5=9031353&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=657824500&veh=sem&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxYqTsPfu5AIVksVkCh3XxgfPEAkYBCABEgJtxvD_BwE) Maybe someone with the newer relay could take a picture or provide a part number. Because the power may be limited, the cable required may only be a #2 or so. It doesn't have to be (and apparently isn't) near the chassis battery. Over on the driver side, under the hood, is closer to the alternator output. RonB
RonB- Is the TRIK-L-START something I should consider for my '91 LD? Currently there is no generator or solar panels, although I hope to add them when I'm able to travel for longer periods. I would definitely ask my garage to install it since I know I'm not to be trusted!! :D
Thanks, pj
Hi PJ; I don't know how you keep up your house batteries. If you leave your motorhome plugged in, in the driveway, the Trik-L-Start would keep up your chassis battery using excess power from your (house battery) converter charger. Later addition of a solar system would be transparent and nothing would need to be changed related to the Trik-L-Start. If you just start and run your motorhome once a week or so, you wouldn't benefit much, since the running engine charges all of the batteries at once through the diode isolator.
It is pretty easy to put this unit in, but your local mechanic/car electronics person/RV repair place should be able to do this easily. I noticed in the picture of my installation the company was bought by Winebago. RonB
So Ron, the way I see it this little charger uses power from the house battery to power it's self. If there are no solar panels involved one would have to be plugged in through the converter and it would use power over 13.2 V to keep the house battery's from over charging?
Jon
So Ron, the way I see it this little charger uses power from the house battery to power it's self. If there are no solar panels involved one would have to be plugged in through the converter and it would use power over 13.2 V to keep the house battery's from over charging?
The Trik-L-Start will not prevent the converter from overcharging the house battery, it uses little power.
If you are actually planning on adding solar, the Blue Sky 3000i will take care of the starting battery charging without having to add a Trik-L-Start.
I have found most owners have fewer problems with excessive battery water usage or overcharging when just the solar controller is used, when the rig is in storage .
Many converters maintain too high a float voltage, causing outgassing and increased water usage. A lot of AGM batteries have died from overcharging.
Larry
“I have found most owners have fewer problems with excessive battery water usage or overcharging when just the solar controller is used, when the rig is in storage .
Many converters maintain too high a float voltage, causing outgassing and increased water usage. A lot of AGM batteries have died from overcharging.”
Helpful insight Larry. Any advice for those that store indoors with 120v power available?
Warren
“I have found most owners have fewer problems with excessive battery water usage or overcharging when just the solar controller is used, when the rig is in storage .
Many converters maintain too high a float voltage, causing outgassing and increased water usage. A lot of AGM batteries have died from overcharging.”
Helpful insight Larry. Any advice for those that store indoors with 120v power available?
Warren
The Trik-L-Start will not prevent the converter from overcharging the house battery, it uses little power.
If you are actually planning on adding solar, the Blue Sky 3000i will take care of the starting battery charging without having to add a Trik-L-Start.
I have found most owners have fewer problems with excessive battery water usage or overcharging when just the solar controller is used, when the rig is in storage .
Many converters maintain too high a float voltage, causing outgassing and increased water usage. A lot of AGM batteries have died from overcharging.
Larry
My LD stays stored in our driveway and I keep the factory solar controller on "shore power" even though I'm not plugged in to an outlet. I assume this should be enough maintain the house batteries and keep them topped off during daylight hours when the solar is getting power. The manual says that it will convert less power on shore power vs. setting it to dry camping. I was figuring this would prevent my house batteries from overcharging since they aren't getting as much juice to them and none overnight. Does this seem accurate? I only have 110v outdoor outlets if I do need to plug it in at my house and I'm also unsure if this would ever cause potential overcharging the house batteries vs. some homes where they leave their RV plugged into 220v (like a dryer plug equivalent).
"...some homes where they leave their RV plugged into 220v (like a dryer plug equivalent)."
----
:o 220V may work for a washing machine, dryer, and/or a few other appliances, but if an "electrician" wires a pedestal to deliver that much voltage to a rig that requires 30A, I hope s/he agrees to pony up for the rig's fried and smoking electrics!
RV Electric (http://www.myrv.us/electric/)
http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/30-amp%20Service.pdf
If when storing the LD, leaving the Heliotrope HPV22B in "shore power" keeps the battery charged, with an early morning resting voltage at or above 12.6-volts, then it should be OK. If lower than 12.6, try the "dry camp" mode. Monitor how much water is used in each mode.
Battery voltage is not the best way knowing the battery's charge level, a battery monitor can track the battery's actual charge level.
Amazon.com: Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor: Gateway (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-MONITOR-VTBMV-S-BMV-712-Battery/dp/B075RTSTKS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=victron+battery+monitor&qid=1569601495&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=AERMGYAT5R869&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyN1pFTVhKVlJRMFJGJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDYzMTYxM0haREZFUFgwSjcwUyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDMzMjY1MjJDUFFOQlpFTzNIQiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)
Larry
Helpful insight Larry. Any advice for those that store indoors with 120v power available?
Every model of converter is different, see how your LD's converter works and how high the float voltage is.
I have no experience with the converter now installed by LD.
Lifeline AGM batteries should have a float voltage, after being fully charged, at around 13-VDC, at room temperature.
Lifeline Owners manual.
http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6-0101-Rev-E-Lifeline-Technical-Manual.pdf
See page 19. Overcharging an AGM will destroy it, there is no way to add water.
If the float voltage, while in storage is too high, a smaller, smart maintenance charger could possibly be used.
AGMs are picky and can be easily damaged, I have known too many LD owners whose AGMs died early death, cause by converters that floated at too high a voltage..
One reason why I prefer Lead-acid batteries is if overcharged, their water level can be replenished.
Larry
"...some homes where they leave their RV plugged into 220v (like a dryer plug equivalent)."
----
:o 220V may work for a washing machine, dryer, and/or a few other appliances, but if an "electrician" wires a pedestal to deliver that much voltage to a rig that requires 30A, I hope s/he agrees to pony up for the rig's fried and smoking electrics!
RV Electric (http://www.myrv.us/electric/)
http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/30-amp%20Service.pdf
Apologies. 30amp outlet is what I meant which is equivalent in side obviously not in electricity voltage! Basically wondering if just plugging into a standard 110 outlet would potentially overcharge the batteries like leaving it in to a 30a outlet potentially could.
The converter, which is what charges the battery when plugged into AC, couldn't care less if you are plugged into 30, 20 or 15 AMP power. It will draw its 5 or 6 AMPS and charge the battery the same no matter what the AC connection is.
Rich
The converter, which is what charges the battery when plugged into AC, couldn't care less if you are plugged into 30, 20 or 15 AMP power. It will draw its 5 or 6 AMPS and charge the battery the same no matter what the AC connection is.
Rich
Ah gotcha thank you. I assumed the converter would allow a larger amp draw on a 30amp circuit vs. a 15 or 20amp circuit.
Larry said, “Battery voltage is not the best way knowing the battery's charge level, a battery monitor can track the battery's actual charge level”.
Amazon.com: Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor: Gateway
Ordered this monitor the other day. Purchased mine from AM Solar instead of Amazon. I plan on having more Solar added to our RB in a year or so and wanted a working relationship with AM Solar going in.
Our current two OEM panels are fine but I’m ready to step up my Solar game and AM Solar has a great reputation for doing the job right.
Kent
Kent,
My I suggest you get in touch with AM Solar sooner rather then later. They can get very busy fast. On the phone they can be a bit slow but in person they are great. <smile> bring you checkbook with some $$$$$ in it.......
glen
Ordered this monitor the other day. Purchased mine from AM Solar instead of Amazon. I plan on having more Solar added to our RB in a year or so and wanted a working relationship with AM Solar going in.
When upgrading to more panels, be sure to increase the lead-in wire size, from the panels to the controller, to prevent power loss from the small, stock wiring.
Another choice is to wire the panels in series, to retain the stock wire. This will work but if shadows cover one of the panels, the whole system shuts down. Many LDs have the wire run, from the roof to the controller, accessible for disassebly and replacement with larger wire. The roof connection usually needs to be upsized for the larger wires. Don't worry too much about making this a water-proof installation., LD uses a very fancy device for the job.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7155/26841371955_d4f120e7bb.jpg)
LD uses a simple electrical box cover plate, screwed to the roof, with a water-proof, 90 degree fitting installed, used with waterproof conduct.It's sealed with a lot of polyurethane. It's effective but not exactly high-tech.
And they worry about any of us drilling a single hole in the roof or adding a screw. Makes me laugh.
Larry