I was just checking whether the rig would start as I'm going somewhere soon (no problem here) and noticed that the fan is not blowing any air through the instrument panel registers into the cabin but only against the front and side windows. The selector was - as usual - on "Norm AC" (I don't think I had it ever anywhere else). Now it does not matter what I do with the selector - unless it's on "off" - or the fan speed or the temperature, the wind goes always only through the defrost openings. AC and heater as such are working normal. Three or four weeks ago, when I was using the RV the last time, everything was working normal.
I'm kind of in panic about this. Can somebody tell me what might be going on here and whether I can fix this easily myself?
Klaus
?
The vent controls are vacuum operated, vacuum supplied from the engine's intake manifold and stored in a vacuum can, hidden somewhere under the hood. It's a complicated system that is hard to access.
The vacuum supply tube, on the E450s, is located under the hood, on the left side. From there is disappears into the interior, under the dash.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4327/35836897881_5d2e15a3f9.jpg)
Fix it yourself?
I would start by reading the HVAC section in the Factory Service Manual, which you probably don't have.
Without any information on how operates, it's going to be difficult repair unless it is something simple, like the vacuum line falling off the intake manifold. I would start with the shown vacuum line and seeing if there is vacuum present when the engine is running. Beyond that, unless you are a talented and very patient tinkerer, I would suggest professional help.
Larry
I certainly cannot tinker with this myself. I don't even know where exactly the vacuum line in the picture is. I can only guess that it's the metal/brass tube with the right angle on the right side - is that correct? Nothing seems to be loose or missing there.
PS: The piece that gets cold when the engine is running is the black metal tubing that is in the picture more at the bottom. Is that the vaccuum line?
Klaus,
I have had this same problem twice. The first, time a rat chewed through the vacuum line. Fortunately, it was right at the top where it is shown in Larry's photo. Check this location and carefully work your way down that vacuum line, but don't pull it! When I found the break, I simply obtained a short section of vacuum line slightly larger in diameter and joined the two separated ends. Viola! Problem solved. Everything worked as designed.
The second time, a rat or other ilk, chewed through inside the fender area and I will have a more difficult time rejoining the ends. Hopefully yours is an easy repair!
Harold
We had the same problem several months ago and fixed it with the help of another LD friend, Chris. He did most of the work but I get credit for handing him tools.
Here is an older thread on the subject. Cab A/C turns off when going up hill (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=30535.msg175878#msg175878)
Something from the Companion. The Lazy Daze Companion: Cab AC - Air Flow Cuts Off Under Acceleration (https://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2017/12/cab-ac-air-flow-cuts-off-under.html)
When it's failing I believe it cuts off under acceleration. When it gets worse it only blows through the defrost.
Jim
Ok. First - thanks to both of you (now: all three of you; Jim answered while I was writing this).
I'm still not really clear about the vacuum line. According to some research it is usually a flexible rubber hose - of which there are many under the hood. I will wait a little longer until the engine is cold and then feel around the rubber hoses as much as I can.
Harold, it sounds as if you have not repaired the second rat attack. Is that correct? Does that mean that for the time being it is possible - and not risking further damage - to use the RV? I am planning to drive tomorrow from Sedona to Flagstaff (30 miles away) to have finally my solar system installed. This is scheduled at "Buddy's Welding & RV" in Flagstaff. This place has been recommended to me by several people and also the people from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun where I bought most of the solar equipment.
I will, of course, ask Buddy whether he can have a look at it, but I'm not sure that he is a Ford E-450 engine and AC specialist. I will find out tomorrow.
And then next week on Wednesday or Thursday I want to go for about ten days onto a trip to Temecula, CA (via Phoenix and Quartzsite). That's back and forth about 1,000 miles. I would stay most of the time at Jojoba Hills RV Resort in Aguanga and drive from there every day to a seminar in Temecula. Having the cold air only coming out through the defrost vents is certainly not ideal, but I guess I would survive that.
Can I go ahead with my Temecula plans, or do I have to postpone until this is fixed?
Klaus
Jim - are you and Gayle right now in Aguanga? Klaus
Klaus,
Go ahead and take your trips and enjoy your Lazy Daze. Don't worry about it.
The default (no vacuum connection) is to blow the air, ac, or heat up along the window like a defroster. This is a good safety default and actually keeps the cab at a desired temp.
unless the break is obvious, I doubt that a general repair shop will be able to fix this. Kearny Mesa Ford in San Diego estimated it at $1100.
I can do a lot of shade tree repairs for $1100, and quite possibly so can you.
Check out YOUTUBE. There are some videos on this and you will be able to ID the vacuum line.
Good luck.
Harold
Klaus, if you don't get it fixed before your Temecula trip and you are comfortable with night driving, you might want to plan your driving to be after sunset when it will be cooler out. A trick from my childhood days when air conditioners in vehicles were rare/non existent.
There are also 12v fans that can help distribute the air towards you from the vents that are blowing air.
Jane
To answer your other question, No, I haven't repaired the second break. It's on my short list, but the cab climate is OK with the air blowing out of the defrost vents, so it is an easy thing to live with. Due to the location of the present break, this will be more difficult, bit I'm pretty certain I can figure this repair out. 95% perspiration and 5% inspiration...
I did get rid of the damned rats.
Harold
What Jim Cummings termed "Something from the Companion" is, to me, a comprehensive How-To on how to resolve the issue. It is certainly better than any YouTube I have seen on the subject.
But as Klaus said "I certainly cannot tinker with this myself", so the options are a mechanical friend or a thousand bucks for a tech.
Klaus,
Don and Jim did the heavy lifting here. The Companion article is pretty clear how to fix the problem or at least determine the cause.
Companion. The Lazy Daze Companion: Cab AC - Air Flow Cuts Off Under Acceleration
OK. 5% inspiration is done. It is time to get out and replace my vacuum line.
Harold
Jim - are you and Gayle right now in Aguanga? Klaus
We left there permanently today.
Jim
Can somebody please confirm that the vacuum in Larry's photo is the rather thin black line on top with the short yellow jacket in the middle? I probably could not sleep well tonight if I would not at least know which line we are talking about here.
Apart from that I'm one more time very happy to have a Lazy Daze. The knowledge and the support here in the forum are simply outstanding. Thanks!
Klaus
Can somebody please confirm that the vacuum in Larry's photo is the rather thin black line on top with the short yellow jacket in the middle? I probably could not sleep well tonight if I would not at least know which line we are talking about here.
In the photo, the vacuum line is the small tube with a wrap of yellow tape, It is located, with the hood up, in the far left, upper corner of the engine compartment. It could have pulled free or a hungry rodent may have chewed on it . If so, it causes a vacuum leak, small enough that the computer can compensate, preventing engine damage. .
Rats cause a lot of under-hood damage, especially in RVs parked for periods of time in rural areas. Plastic tubes and coated wires are very tasty fare.
The valley, between the engine's heads, is a popular area that is often converted into a spacious rodent condo.
Rat damage | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157628789839867/)
There are a couple of possible causes here, either a broken or disconnected vacuum line or a bad check valve.
The classic test for a failed check valve is the A/C works fine, when idling, in neutral. with the A/C changing air outlets under hard, prolonged acceleration, as encountered in an uphill climb . If so, the previous links will head you in the right direction.
If the condition exists all the time, you have either damaged lines, a damage vacuum storage can, something disconnected or a failure of some part in the dash.
It's all guessing without more testing and data.
Larry
In the photo, the vacuum line is the small tube with a wrap of yellow tape, ...
Thanks. Now I can go to bed.
I will test the AC tomorrow morning on my way to Flagstaff when I pass through a stretch of switchbacks and climb almost 1,000 feet. It will be rather cool (if not cold) when I drive through there and it's not very long, but maybe it tells me nevertheless something new about the air flow.
Klaus
Thanks. Now I can go to bed.
I will test the AC tomorrow morning on my way to Flagstaff when I pass through a stretch of switchbacks and climb almost 1,000 feet. It will be rather cool (if not cold) when I drive through there and it's not very long, but maybe it tells me something new about the air flow nevertheless.
It doesn't matter if the A/C is on or not, the vacuum powers the vents in all modes.
Now, get some sleep.
Larry
We left there permanently today.
Jim
Permanently for the summer but not permanently forever, eh?
Chris
Felt I needed to confirm using the Companion. I was able to fix the same issue with the info provided in the Companion and watching a few Youtube videos. Once I confirmed the vacuum line was the one as noted by Larry W, I traced it through the firewall to the inside passenger foot well. 24" of vacuum line and a new "ball" vacuum reservoir and all is well. Only issue I have had was effectively mounting the reservoir behind the metal plate behind the passenger knee bolster. Velcro did the trick.
And here is one more:
My 2014 chassis has the vacuum tube routed differently than the example in The Companion. However, the principle was the same. $3.50 for a few feet of 5/32" vacuum tubing from my local NAPA store and my dash vents now blow the air from the vent, heater and AC. The dash climate control selector knob works now as designed.
Although I didn't need to replace the check valve or the vacuum accumulator, the $1100 quoted by the Ford dealership seemed a bit excessive.
Thanks to Don and all of the contributors to the Companion. It is a really valuable resource.
TPMS is next.
Harold
I started with the (hopefully sucessful) repair of the vacuum line in my Lazy Daze. I looked at a couple of YouTube videos - some good, some not so good - and also the lengthy article on the Lazy Daze Companion website. For a while a thought I would not be able to do this myself, but then I just started.
At first I wanted to follow the instructions from a pretty good YouTube video (link at the end of this post). For that I removed the doghouse, which was after having done it before for replacing the radio not so difficult anymore, and found a deserted critter nest in the small valley in front of the transmission (see Critter Nest.jpg). I cleaned that out and put some mothballs there instead to discourage critters to try to live there again.
In-between question: Could the mothballs cause problems due to heat from the engine? (I anyway have mothballs in the engine compartment, on the driver side in the front below the electrical box. These do not cause problems, but they are also not getting hot.)
With the doghouse off and looking again at the YouTube video I changed my mind and followed the Lazy Daze Companion instructions. As it turned out that was a good idea because when I removed the grommet that holds the vacuum line that goes from the passenger side through the firewall into the engine compartment I immediately had the line in my hand because it was broken (or bitten through) right behind the firewall (Cut Vacuum Line.jpg). I probably would not have found this if I had followed the instructions from the YouTube video. Lucky me! I then fed a copper wire from the passenger compartment into the engine compartment and was able to fish this up next to the battery (Copper Line.jpg).
I got already the new vacuum line and the vacuum canister is arriving today. Putting this now together as described on the Lazy Daze Companion website should not be very difficult, I hope. And I further hope that the AC then will work again as it should!
Klaus
YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83GY1da-WOQ
Good job. Finding the problem is often 3/4 of the battle.
I hate rodents. All of them.
“I hate rodents”
Me too, Harold. Just got this bugger this morning. Eight so far this season.
Could the mothballs cause problems due to heat from the engine? (I anyway have mothballs in the engine compartment, on the driver side in the front below the electrical box. These do not cause problems, but they are also not getting hot.)
A direct answer is yes
To read more info ---- Health Effects of Mothballs (http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/mothball/health.html)
glen
I got the Dorman vacuum canister and have - to be sure - more questions as I am slightly confused by the Lazy Daze Companion instructions in regards to which line to connect to which nozzle on the new vacuum canister.
1.) It is possible to blow into the smaller nozzle of the Dorman vacuum canister and then the air comes out of the larger nozzle, but it is not possible to blow into the larger nozzle. I therefore think that the smaller nozzle (in the picture on the right side) is the inlet and the larger nozzle (on the left side) is the outlet. Correct?
2.) The inlet should be connected to the newly bought line that goes (in the engine compartment) to the intake manifold, and the outlet should be connected to the existing line (in the passenger compartment) that goes up into the dashboard. Correct?
Or should it be the other way around?
3.) Once that is settled and the new line is running from the passenger compartment to the engine compartment I simply cut the old vacuum line in the engine compartment somewhere on the left side of the connector that connects is to the line that goes to the intake manifold and connect this old vacuum line to new line (which is connected to the intake nozzle of the new vacuum canister). Correct?
Klaus
The inlet, the small tube you can blow into, should go to a vacuum source on the intake manifold, the large tube powers the HVAC system. Connect the new line to both ends of the old line, cutting out and bypassing the old.
Looks like you are almost done.
Larry
Harold & Greg--
RE: "I hate rodents" Despite the fact that Pixie & Dixie were portrayed as simply mischievous, I agree with the famous Mr. Jinks, "I hates meeces to pieces!"
Klaus--
I learned about Fresh Cab Rodent Repellent at Ladeze a few years ago, & highly recommend it--non-toxic & smells nice, too. I'd found a few droppings in the storage bays, but fortunately nothing like the damage so many have reported here, & no critter condo like you discovered. I keep a bag in every storage bay & wired one under the hood; when I put the baby away for her winter hibernation in the barn I put abut four inside the living space (one between the beds in the back, one in the kitchen area, one midway in the lounge area, & one by the dog house), & I've never found another dropping anywhere. Though I'd been fortunate to never suffer a critter attack on the tractor, I keep a bag wired under the hood of the tractor now, too.
Good luck with this project.
Lynne
Unfortunately, no success.
The new line from the intake manifold is creating a well perceptible vacuum and connected to the smaller (right) nozzle of the canister, the other (left) nozzle is - with the help of a small piece of the new line as a "fitting" - connected to the old line that goes up into the dashboard. With some effort it is also possible to blow manually into this line that goes up into the dashboard.
However, the AC is as before only blowing through the defrost and floor outlets. This is very frustrating. All for nothing - and the existing lines forever destroyed. It is especially frustrating as I found the old line being broken directly behind the firewall when I removed the grommet there. I really thought I found the reason for the malfunctioning.
I tried to connect the lines the other way around to the canister; that does not make a difference.
When I disconnect the line that goes up into the dashboard from the left nozzle and connect a short piece of the new line there and have the engine running, I can neither feel a vacuum nor any air coming out. Is it supposed to be like this, or should I feel something here? What should happen on that side of the canister when the engine is running - blowing or sucking?
Is there anything else that I can try?
Klaus
The inlet, the small tube you can blow into, should go to a vacuum source on the intake manifold, the large tube powers the HVAC system.
It works! Cold air is blowing through the dashboard outlets into my face!
I did once more what I had already done before and connected the hoses the other way around to the canister as I understood it from Larry. I was anyway wondering why I should connect the sucking hose to the nozzle that can be blown into. Strange is that it did not work when I did this before. Glorious is that it works now!
To make it clear to anybody who needs to do this in the future: When using the $10 "Dorman HELP! 47076 Vacuum Tank Unit" the sucking line coming from the intake manifold in the engine compartment has to be connected to the larger nozzle on the left side of the canister (see picture), and the line that goes inside the passenger compartment up into the dashboard has to be connected to the smaller nozzle on the right side of the canister (the one with the little hood on the side).
I'm quite relieved - and I'm wondering what to do with the saved $900. I think I definitely deserve some kind of reward, don't I?
And again - so much thanks to the community here. I would not have done this without you. I hope to see some of you on the road sometime.
Klaus
I have now pulled the new line - which I before had running through the window and the hood into the engine compartment - through the firewall. Another test of the system was again successful (I still can hardly believe to have fully working AC again). I'm basically ready to fix the canister and reattach the metal plate and the plastic cover in the passenger footwell (and go on to the next project).
One question remains. The new vacuum line fits very tight onto the larger left nozzle and kind of tight but not as tight onto the (cone-shaped) smaller right nozzle. Is that enough, or do I need to fix the lines tighter or permanently to the nozzles? In both places it would not be possible to use hose clamps - I would have to use glue. I'm actually quite confident that the (anyway slightly sticky) silicon hose will stay on the canister, but I thought it cannot harm to ask here.
If it is better to glue the silicon line to the plastic canister - what kind of glue do I need?
Klaus
Very interesting..... We just got home Saturday from a four-week trip and had this same issue crop up!
First, air has been coming thru floor vent even though vent control is in off position. Then later, when it was super windy, the air (AC and vent) would alternate between blowing thru the dash vents and the defroster, randomly back and forth. Since it's a vacuum line issue, maybe the heavy wind gusts contributed to this happening? We were also in the high desert at altitude, along with the high winds when this was happening. At other times, air flows normally thru the selected position. Sounds like it's an expensive fix at a dealer, so will probably just see how it performs on the next outing!
Daryl
We just got home Saturday from a four-week trip and had this same issue crop up!
From my experience I can say that it is fairly easy to fix this yourself in maybe 2-3 hours. The best and almost perfect instructions are on the Lazy Dazy Companion website (The Lazy Daze Companion: Cab AC - Air Flow Cuts Off Under Acceleration (https://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2017/12/cab-ac-air-flow-cuts-off-under.html)). I had to read it several times directly at the rig before I felt confident to do this. It then went very well.
The parts cost around $25:
Dorman HELP! 47076 Vacuum Tank Unit ($10)
Amazon.com: Dorman HELP! 47076 Vacuum Tank Unit: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-HELP-47076-Vacuum-Tank/dp/B000COB8FA/ref=sr_1_16?keywords=dorman+vacuum&qid=1561161522&s=automotive&sr=1-16)
10 ft of 5/32" Vacuum Line ($10)
Amazon.com: Hiwowsport High Performance 10' Length High Temperature Silicone... (https://www.amazon.com/Hiwowsport-Performance-Length-Temperature-Silicone/dp/B077XCCRT8/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Hiwowsport+High+Performance+10%27+Length+High+Temperature+Silicone+Vacuum+Tubing+Hose+%2810FT+X+4MM%285%2F32%27%27%29%29&qid=1562002547&s=gateway&sr=8-1)
And 2 or 4 small hose clamps ($5). Additionally maybe some glue to fix the hoses to the canister. I would suggest to buy 10 ft and not just 5 ft of vacuum line - by doing that I could run the new line first through the door and the hood to the old line that leads to the intake manifold and make sure that I really fixed the damn thing.
Klaus
thanks, Klaus!
Thinking maybe I'll order the vacuum tank & hose so when/if I have the opportunity to tinker around in there, I'll be prepared. Probably best to attempt this while I'm visiting my parents' since my dad could likely help me out with his deeper skill set in this area under the hood!
Daryl
To make it clear to anybody who needs to do this in the future: When using the $10 "Dorman HELP! 47076 Vacuum Tank Unit" the sucking line coming from the intake manifold in the engine compartment has to be connected to the larger nozzle on the left side of the canister (see picture), and the line that goes inside the passenger compartment up into the dashboard has to be connected to the smaller nozzle on the right side of the canister (the one with the little hood on the side).
Klaus
That bit of confusion is covered under #4
4) The reservoir has an inlet and outlet nozzles, but it's not marked which is which. The 5/32 hose (the one you just pulled through the firewall fits one of the nozzles, but it's not the right one. Cut a short piece from the 1/8 hose you cut off, stick it in the 5/32 hose and the other into the cannister. Just reverse that for the other nozzle.
This two-year-old topic has been very helpful.
Last week we got Sidra out for some exercise. After a bit of driving I turned on the AC and what?, it only blows through the defrosters.
At home we found this topic (and others) and the Lazy Daze Companion article.
We then inspected the HVAC switches and vacuum hoses behind the dash. All were perfect. (The inspection was easy with the doghouse off; we had already been pulling it every day for a couple weeks to check a sticky trap set on top of the transmission housing. >:( ) We then inspected the run of hose that can be seen under the hood. Perfect. We pulled the grommet through the firewall and, sure enough, the run of hose behind the fender had been bitten through.
We sourced 5/32 vacuum hose and a splice from O’Reilly Auto Parts and threaded the replacement vacuum line, fishing it through the firewall as described in the LD Companion article.
The hose and splice were ridiculously overpriced, but the total bill was around $15. Oh yeah, like Harold (Blueox25), we called Kearney Mesa Ford. They offered to fix it for $1800! Of course, they would replace every component in the system. Ridiculous.
This community is the best, and priceless.
Jim