I've read several posts on this topic and I am wondering what you all do when you DO have a bunch of food in the fridge that needs to stay cold while driving? In my case, I feed my dogs a raw diet, so I need to keep raw meat cold. Having to keep a cooler around for drives seems to defeat the purpose of having a vehicle with a fridge! Plus it takes up more room and would require getting ice. Bah!
The other thing I'm wondering about is the dashboard switch that people have referenced. How do I know if I have one? Where do I look? And what, exactly, does the magic switch do? If i can't have the propane running while driving, what is the purpose of the switch?
Thanks!
Is your fridge a 2-way or a 3-way, i.e. does it have a 12V mode? If it does, then a switch on the dash may enable that. Our '83 had a relay to switch 12V to the fridge when the motor was running. However, the fridge itself had to be switched manually to work on 12V. Our '04 has a 2-way fridge, but when driving, an inverter runs the fridge in AC mode. I have it set up also to switch automatically by a transfer relay. If someone installed such a system in yours, they may have a switch to enable it.
Steve
Lisa, I have a 87MP with the original 3 way fridge. You may not have one or it could have been replaced by a 2 way fridge. I do not know what year they stopped installing them. 3-way fridges will work on AC, DC, or Propane. The 3 way fridge shifts automatically when turned on. It will first pick AC - alternating current (electricity) if plugged in or if the generator (I don't have one) is running. If no alternating current is available it will switch to propane provided the propane is turned on. When there is no alternating current, no propane(turned off), driver key is on and switch on driver console turned on it will work on DC(house battery). Running on DC(battery) it will take up more DC then the alternator can put out and will draw the house batteries down. To keep from drawing down the house battery(DC) I have always run the fridge on propane when on the road as I boon dock often and want to have fully charged batteries when arriving at a campsite. If running on propane remember to turn off the propane before filling the gas tank. I have recently installed(this fall) a new cooling unit in this fridge and verified it does work all 3 ways. Now as to which switch on the console it is I forget. It is one of three switch on the driver console added aftermarket that I rarely use. One is for the fridge, one for fog lights, and one for an extra fuel pump to prevent vapor lock. I use the trial and error method to remember which does which.
JohnF
2003 T/K and 1987MP w/roof sleeper(for sale this spring)
Thanks for the clarification. I don't think I have DC because the settings only show "AC" or "propane."
Why did they stop using the 3 way version? Seems like it would be more useful. Is it because it would drain the battery?
Lisa
Hi Lisa. LD stopped providing the 3 way 'fridge' about 1990, it drew too much power. The modern alternators put out quite a bit, but the 12vdc operation wasn't very good, even drawing 30+ amps. Propane is the best source while driving. I believe the switch on the dash that LD provided in the '80's would turn off the 12 vdc to the refrigerator, so that you could get gasoline safely. You had to remember to turn it back on (IIRC). Running the 110v AC on the road with an inverter solves the open flame problem in a gas station, but will quickly run your batteries down, so when stopping for groceries, or a nap, or sight seeing nearby you would need to switch to propane anyway. The perceived safety factor of having the tank LPG turned off, is only good if you actually turn it off when driving. And the delivery pipes still have propane in them.
Most people, including me, drive with the refrigerator running on propane. DO shut it off before getting gas. It only takes someone near you, once, to spill gasoline, and ruin your day. I usually move away from the pumps before restarting the 'fridge'.
If you are involved in an accident, first thing is turn off the tank outside. I did lose a tire tread in my previous motorhome, which ripped open a gas line. That was near a rear tire. Low pressure doesn't leak very much gas. I've considered putting a switch, with a reminder light, on the dash to remove all 12v. from the refrigerator. That would shut down the logic board and shut off the gas and flame with it. In case there was an accident involving gasoline or oil on the road. Myself or someone else. I may still do that someday. RonB
The perceived safety factor of having the tank LPG turned off, is only good if you actually turn it off when driving. And the delivery pipes still have propane in them.
I did a little reading and my thought was just that- I would want to turn off the tank valve itself. But I also wondered about gas in the pipes. I mean, unless you shut off tank and then turn on stove or heater to try and burn off whatever is still in there, I don't see how the pipes would be cleared. I suppose residual gas is safer then having the tank on, but I would think that a blast or fire from the residual gas might be sufficient to blow a hole in the tank anyway. I'm always an optimist!
I think I'll probably just drive with the tank shut off.
I'm not clear what the deal is with gasoline and propane, so I'm going to go read about that now.
Lisa
Lisa-
It is common practice to run the refrigerator on propane when going down the road. As "RonB" said, shut it off before fueling, and turn it back on afterwards. I try to wait until I hear the burner successfully "fire up" after I turn it on. If I forget to turn the refrigerator on, it will stay cold for quite a while, if I leave the doors closed.
Mark H
Hi Lisa. LD stopped providing the 3 way 'fridge' about 1990, it drew too much power. The modern alternators put out quite a bit, but the 12vdc operation wasn't very good, even drawing 30+ amps.
I have a 1995 TK that came with a 3-way fridge.
I run mine on gas when traveling.
I've ran it on 12VDC also while driving with no issues as far as I could tell.
Is their any law that states you have to turn propane to fridge off while getting gas? I've looked and I can't find one. I think it's probably good practice but I've never done so myself. Someone would have to deliberately shoot gas directly at your refrigerator to have an issue which seems highly unlikely. My only real concern would be if that happened as in some terrorist came up with the idea ::) I could be held liable. Not that I think this is any real possibility but it's an interesting scenario to contemplate.
We always ran our '83 in 12V mode while driving. Since it had manual switching, we did not need to worry about turning off propane in a station. However, keeping the alternator belt sufficiently tensioned was an issue. I burned many alternators up before I bought a tension gauge - doing it by feel doesn't cut it with these old Chevys... Night-time was the big problem - running the fridge and the headlights was too much for the alternator to keep up.
Steve
Is their any law that states you have to turn propane to fridge off while getting gas? I've looked and I can't find one. I think it's probably good practice but I've never done so myself. Someone would have to deliberately shoot gas directly at your refrigerator to have an issue which seems highly unlikely.
Gasoline fumes are what ignite - if you can smell them, they may also reach the lit flame of your fridge. I have seen signs posted in fueling stops that see a lot of RVs. Also, every ferry we have been on requires it. If ignition happens, your rig would be the first casualty, whether or not you can find any written law...
Steve
One day or so we turn on the fridge. Leave it on the whole time we are on the road and while camping. Only once in about 46,000 miles we turn it off we had to camp one night at a very extreme angle. Popane is heavier then air. It will sink to the lowest level available to it.
Turning off the fridge is more old wife tale then fact. Folks have watched to many movies were fuel fires look very easy to start. Throwing a match into a gallon of gas will just put it out.
Throwing a match into a gallon of gas will just put it out.
That is unless there is evaporation that has happened and vapors are sitting on the top of the fluid gas. Then throwing a match into a gallon of gas would ruin your day and a the day of a few of your neighbors
One day or so we turn on the fridge. Leave it on the whole time we are on the road and while camping. Only once in about 46,000 miles we turn it off we had to camp one night at a very extreme angle. Popane is heavier then air. It will sink to the lowest level available to it.
Turning off the fridge is more old wife tale then fact. Folks have watched to many movies were fuel fires look very easy to start. Throwing a match into a gallon of gas will just put it out.
I think people that stop before entering a gas station and turn off their propane are few and far between. I've never once seen any indication of someone doing that on the outside perimeter of a gas station but countless times have seen RVs ahead of or behind me on the road pull right up to the pump just as I do. I'd be curious to know if there's ever even been a documented case of this starting a fire in a gas station. I googled it and can only find fires caused while filling propane tanks but not one caused while getting gas. Gasoline can indeed be dangerous and by design is highly flammable but I'm not convinced the small flame in your refer compartment is a significant risk factor.
Back to the original question....how long will the refrigerator contents stay cold if it is not actively cooling itself? Won't it act like a big cooler box and retain the cool for a good 4 or 5 hours without trouble?
Back to the original question....how long will the refrigerator contents stay cold if it is not actively cooling itself? Won't it act like a big cooler box and retain the cool for a good 4 or 5 hours without trouble?
Depends on outside temperature. If it's cool out you can drive all day with refer off but if it's 100 degrees it starts warming almost immediately. I had problems with my camper refer blowing out so I used to turn it off and have some experience with that method. Then there's trips to the fridge for cold drinks and lunch break which entail opening the fridge which also makes it lose it's cool.
. I burned many alternators up before I bought a tension gauge - doing it by feel doesn't cut it with these old Chevys... Night-time was the big problem - running the fridge and the headlights was too much for the alternator to keep up.
Our experience with our old 1983 LD was the same as Steves, the alternator could keep up with the electrical needs when the headlights or the dash A/C was on. With both A/C and headlight on, the battery would die in a couple hours.
I built new brackets for the engine and install a 150-amp alternator, enabling the battery to stay charged under all operating conditions. Our refrigerator needed to manually be put into 12-volt mode and would stay there, no matter is the engine was running. One time I forgot to switch it and killed the battery.
Since then, about 24 years ago, we have alway run the refrigerator on propane.
If you are worried about a mass gas release, newer propane tanks have a flow control valve that shuts the propane off if the flow rate is higher than normal, in case a propane line breaks.
A cold refrigerator will stay that way for a while, how long depends on how high the ambient temperature is.
A few hours at best, don't push it too far, food poisoning may come calling.
Most folks eventually get over their fear of fire and run with the propane on. I have never heard of an LD burning, while on the road.
Larry
My fridge stays cold a good while. I have a temp sensor to an indoor/outdoor thermometer in the fridge and the reading unit in a cup holder so I can watch the temp of the fridge. I have forgotten to turn the fridge back on and noticing the temp creeping up saved my food.
The indoor outdoor thermometer is avable at most any hardware store.
Back to the original question....how long will the refrigerator contents stay cold if it is not actively cooling itself? Won't it act like a big cooler box and retain the cool for a good 4 or 5 hours without trouble?
If the fridge is crammed full of cold items, they act as a thermal sink with a large mass. Warming up that mass will take a lot longer than with a lightly-loaded box. If the fridge is to be off for a lengthy time, adding ice first will help - much as adding ice to a cooler. The freezer should be tightly packed with frozen food too. Still, thermal conduction of heat into the box via warmed up cooling unit from outside heat makes the fridge less thermally efficient when turned off than a cooler box.
Steve
Steve
Norcold still makes a 3-way fridge and its still standard in some RV's. I asked the local dealer about why they were still making a 3-way. He said it was basically convenience. The ability to use three different power sources. The DC amp draws are a little lower on the newer models. Battery technology and the super output alternators let them run more efficiently.
A lot of RV manufactures are going with the newer compressor driven AC/DC fridges. Norcold, Dometic, and Nova-Kool are the most popular models. They only draw 3.2-5.0 DC amps. Because of their superior cooling, the "duty cycle" is even less power consumption. With the advent of solar and high performance batteries like AGM's makes this all possible. After 12-18 months on these installations, the reports have been very positive so far. The newer 220-330 amp AGM banks and solar seem to be keeping up with the power consumption.
We have been using compressor driven fridges (Nova-Kool) for the last 20 years on our boats. They have performed very well. We dont have solar or a gen set, but a very large house bank with smart charging system.
I very rarely turn off my fridge when making a fuel stop, in fact there have been times when I have not turned the fridge off when taking on propane.
One factor I take into account is that my fridge is located on the patio side of the rig, while the fuel inputs are both on the opposite side. It would take extraordinary conditions to have fuel fumes or vapor reach the opposite side of the coach in a quantity to cause ignition. ::)
I think people that stop before entering a gas station and turn off their propane are few and far between. I've never once seen any indication of someone doing that on the outside perimeter of a gas station but countless times have seen RVs ahead of or behind me on the road pull right up to the pump just as I do. I'd be curious to know if there's ever even been a documented case of this starting a fire in a gas station. I googled it and can only find fires caused while filling propane tanks but not one caused while getting gas.
Before pulling up to the gas pump I turn off the fridge from the inside. What I was told was one doesn’t want to have the igniter doing it’s job while pumping gas. Akin to not lighting a cigarette while at the pump. While the odds might be low, my thought is why push it. The trick is to remember to turn the fridge back on after leaving.
For several years I have been using an Acu-Rite digital thermometer with two sensors. The idea was one in fridge and one in freezer. Been using it at home as well as in the Lazy Daze and have ended up only using sensor in the fridge. It is nice to be able to see temp without opening the door. Overtime one gets a sense of how the temp changes when door is opened, if sun is hitting fridge side of rig and need to raise/lower setting based on outside temperature.
We also use one of the little battery powered fans to help with airflow.
"...in fact there have been times when I have not turned the fridge off when taking on propane."
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Steve, I'm very surprised that any propane dealer/supplier would fill an onboard LPG tank if any appliance was running! This is always the first question that I'm asked when I take on propane, even at my regular fill place with the same pumper. If the gas pump or the propane pump is running around my rig, every "flame" is shut down!
IMO, having an open flame anywhere near LPG vapor or gasoline vapors or any other volatile substance is way more of a crapshoot than I ever want to take. :o
"I think people that stop before entering a gas station and turn off their propane are few and far between. I've never once seen any indication of someone doing that on the outside perimeter of a gas station but countless times have seen RVs ahead of or behind me on the road pull right up to the pump just as I do."
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Maybe many don't, but "people" do a whole lot of things that aren't necessarily smart.
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Maybe many don't, but "people" do a whole lot of things that aren't necessarily smart.
Like driving down the road at 60mph with people driving the other direction going 60mph and only a few feet of air between them ? LOL
Someday people will look back at things we do today and think holy cow those people were insane. Not only did they do that but they continued to do it after waiting for hours for bodies and scrap metal to be removed from their path due to one of these close encounters that ended badly. I often think driving is not too smart and I should limit it to only when absolutely necessary but as I type this I'm gathering stuff together for a 3000 mile round trip to the desert. ;D
Having said that now that I'm retired I don't drive in winter unless the roads are good and feel bad for all those working people that have to get to the job on time no matter how bad the roads are. Seems like every time we have a big ice or snowstorm somebody dies around here on their way to or from work. We have a friend who's an ER nurse, they callously call it winter kill.
Hi Steve S. Yes my refrigerator is on the opposite side from my fuel fill. With vapor recovery nozzles, a stiff breeze blowing to disperse fumes away from my refrigerator and no one up wind from me; then I might gas up leaving my 'fridge' on. But I've had people spill gasoline near me too. I also don't run the generator into a gas station, or water heater (would that even run while moving?). I don't turn off the tank valve Larry, so turning off the refrigerator while getting gas is sort of invisible to outside observers. It is the navigator's job to turn off the 'fridge, while I remove the locking gas cap. That is quite the trick too. We usually move away from the pumps before turning the 'fridge back on. We try to remember to view the 'check' light after a while to make sure that everything came back on ok. She can see that light using the bathroom door mirror from the passenger seat. (TK only.) RonB
I don't think turning off the refrigerator is wrong I just wonder if it's necessary. If I could find an actual law requiring it or even a documented case of a refer causing a fire in a gas station I'd be more prone to take this extra safety precaution but I've scoured the net and come up dry.
For many years you were required by law to remove propane tanks from the back of a pickup before filling. Something about static electricity possibly causing an explosion but that law has recently been done away with due to complaints of people such as myself who routinely fill 100lb tanks and lack of any evidence this was actually a hazard. I'm thinking the same holds true with the refer thing and it's more of an urban legend than a real hazard. Having said that if it makes you feel safer by all means do it.
"...or water heater (would that even run while moving?)."
Yup, sure will! Done that many times. ;)
Here’s what “Mac The Fire Guy” has to say on the subject. https://youtu.be/HJMTQWWoMSw
Enjoy the open road.
Kent
Thanks all for all the info and opinions here. I wasn't aware of the dangers of running the frig at gas stations or while driving. I'm assuming I just need to turn it off on the frig and not also at the tank. Please correct me if i didn't get that right. TIA
Sue,
First turn off the fridge at its control panel. Then turn off the propane at the tank. This procedure prevents the potential of a fire in case of a break in the propane line to the various propane using appliances.
The nice thing about traveling with the propane turned off is that you’ll never forget to turn off the tank while fueling the truck at a gas station.
Kent
I just went to plug into my house's electric and, now that I know about the scariness of sparks near propane, I'm wondering how it can be safe to have the electrical cord so close to the propane compartment. I assume it's ok to have propane on when electricity is plugged in, as otherwise you couldn't cook while plugged into land line. But now I'm worried about a spark when connecting electrical if propane turned on.
Is this a concern? if not, why not?
It isn't a concern because propane shouldn't be leaking except at the point of use. That's what pipes do.
In addition the generator draws gasoline from the main tank, but stops when the tank is below 1/4 tank. That is to prevent you from using all of the gas out of the tank and stranding you where you are parked. A quarter tank shold allow you to drive somewhere to get more gasoline. RonB
Thanks all for all the info and opinions here. I wasn't aware of the dangers of running the frig at gas stations or while driving. I'm assuming I just need to turn it off on the frig and not also at the tank. Please correct me if i didn't get that right. TIA
That is correct, but travel on ferries, and through some tunnels, require you to turn off at the tank.
Steve
Here’s what “Mac The Fire Guy” has to say on the subject. https://youtu.be/HJMTQWWoMSw
Enjoy the open road.
Kent
Mac makes some good points and I guess you have to weigh and balance convenience verses safety on this issue. One thing I'd take issue with is his assertion that refers only lose 4 degrees over 6 to eight hours. That hasn't been my experience with my slide in camper I had for twenty years. For some reason the flame blew out on it so I always turned it off when traveling and if I drove 8 hours it was warm so I started buying blocks of ice for long drives. This of course was in hot weather and if it is freezing outside it was a different story. The 6 to 8 hours claim by manufacturers must be at a pretty low outside temperature.
The only difference I can see with a motorhome is the interior is kept cooler because if it's hot out you are obviously running the AC where as a slide in camper bakes in the sun and gets pretty hot so possibly a refer could stay cooler longer in a motorhome. I'm always sending my wife for cold drinks though not to mention a lunch stop so we'd lose a lot of cool every time the door is opened which would negate the AC factor.
I may go against the norm where our LD fridge is concerned. Yes, I run without the propane on and the fridge off during travel. With one exception...long drive times.
During local 3 hour journey’s, this works fine with a bag or two of ice in the freezer. On extended trips, as I have mentioned in other threads, after three hours I start the generator and turn on the fridge for up to two hours at a time. For a twelve hour drive, I’ll do this a couple of times.
This makes access to the fridge contents available during the “genny hour” and guarantees the contents stay cold/frozen. This has worked well for me.
Cheers!
Kent
I suspect if we conducted a poll, most people run with the propane on while traveling but, like Kent, I have never found the need to run the fridge while driving so keep it off. Not turning the fridge off while fueling is dangerous to yourself and others nearby, in my opinion.
I may go against the norm where our LD fridge is concerned. Yes, I run without the propane on and the fridge off during travel. With one exception...long drive times.
During local 3 hour journey’s, this works fine with a bag or two of ice in the freezer. On extended trips, as I have mentioned in other threads, after three hours I start the generator and turn on the fridge for up to two hours at a time. For a twelve hour drive, I’ll do this a couple of times.
This makes access to the fridge contents available during the “genny hour” and guarantees the contents stay cold/frozen. This has worked well for me.
Cheers!
Kent
Onboard generator does indeed provide an option to leaving propane on to refer. This is the first RV I ever had with such a luxury and I'm still getting my head wrapped around that. For twenty years we had a slide in camper with no generator on board or even brought along and did just fine and I shrugged my shoulders at our LD having such a contraption. I even considered removing it to reduce weight and for extra storage space but I'm starting to like having this thing. Getting soft in my old age I guess. :D
We store our LD in our driveway. When the “grid” from SCE goes down, we have our escape pod right outside the door.
Having the rig plugged into shore power 24/7 keeps everything topped off and the fridge has a fair supply of edables if there is no power in the sticks and bricks.
We’ve had extended blackouts for upwards to 3 hours. With full propane, gas and water tanks, living is easy in an emergency. The generator just makes things all the more survivable.
We even have candles for a romantic dinner in the driveway. 🍸
Kent
As I mentioned before, we have an inverter that runs the fridge automatically while driving, and I do not turn off the propane at the tank. Since mode switching on the fridge is automatic, when gassing up I need to turn it off, because when the engine is off, it WILL switch to propane. However, the fridge delay before switching gives me enough time to get out of the driver seat and do the deed before the auto changeover. The trick is to remember to switch the fridge back on after leaving the station..
Before the inverter, we ran on propane while driving. My decision to use the inverter is resource conservation - of the propane - which is a significant factor on trips that have many long driving days.
Steve
As I mentioned before, we have an inverter that runs the fridge automatically while driving, and I do not turn off the propane at the tank. My decision to use the inverter is resource conservation - of the propane - which is a significant factor on trips that have many long driving days.
Several years ago, I installed an inverter for the refrigerator, which worked OK until one day it didn't. Unfortunately it died unnoticed while we were driving up I-5, in mid August . By the time we noticed, the refrigerator was over 50 degrees. During this time, the propane was turned off so the refrigerator did not automatically switch over, since the major reason to run on inverter power was safety oriented.
Thinking it over, I decided the risk of a propane fire was not much as great as the odds of getting food poisoning.
I may have missed something over the last 18 years but I can't remember an LD burning, due to a propane leak, being reported on this forum.
I wonder if there is any real monetary savings running on an inverter vs. running on propane . The 20+ amps of 12-volt power requires energy from the engine to spin the alternator, it isn't a free ride. The inefficiency of the inverter also needs to calculated in. I bet it's a near wash.
As for saving money, I find propane to be the least of my RVing expenses and am always amazed how long our 8-gallon tank will last on multi-week trips. The refrigerator doesn't use much propane and the water heater is only on a half hour a day. The furnace is a major contributor to consumption.
Larry
When you mostly take trips in colder weather or colder climes, extending the propane run time can be a major advantage, particularly when often boondocking in remote areas. Money has little to do with it - extending camp-stay is the name of the game. After all, this is why we install expensive solar systems and convert to efficient lighting and appliances - not to save money...
So far, I haven't noticed any reduction in fuel mileage from running the inverter, and doubt if I would. Hitching up a toad, though, is enough to notice...
Steve
I don't think turning off the refrigerator is wrong I just wonder if it's necessary. If I could find an actual law requiring it or even a documented case of a refer causing a fire in a gas station I'd be more prone to take this extra safety precaution but I've scoured the net and come up dry.
The only one I've heard of was a newspaper article 20-30 years ago: Grandpa let grandson fill the motorhome gas tank. When the child pulled nozzle out of the fill tube, he did not release the handle. The gasoline sprayed over the side of the motorhome and was ignited by furnace or refer, with a very bad outcome.
The only one I've heard of was a newspaper article 20-30 years ago: Grandpa let grandson fill the motorhome gas tank. When the child pulled nozzle out of the fill tube, he did not release the handle. The gasoline sprayed over the side of the motorhome and was ignited by furnace or refer, with a very bad outcome.
Well there ya go. Anything's possible.
The only one I've heard of was a newspaper article 20-30 years ago: Grandpa let grandson fill the motorhome gas tank. When the child pulled nozzle out of the fill tube, he did not release the handle. The gasoline sprayed over the side of the motorhome and was ignited by furnace or refer, with a very bad outcome.
A quick Google search of "RV gas station fire" reveals numerous articles of fires at gas and propane stations. These articles will rarely state the cause since the general public, as a rule, are excluded from the investigative results of the fire's cause:
rv gas station fire - Penelusuran Google (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&ei=KDJSXPiANszA0PEP29yJMA&q=rv+gas+station+fire&oq=RV+gas+station+fire&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.35i39j0i8i30l2.5424.5424..6892...0.0..0.130.130.0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.YsIVik3SsgQ)
I tend to err on the side of caution and assume the worse, so I choose to run with the propane turned off.
A quick Google search of "RV gas station fire" reveals numerous articles of fires at gas and propane stations. These articles will rarely state the cause since the general public, as a rule, are excluded from the investigative results of the fire's cause:
I was responding to the specific question about refrigerator caused fires. Note that that when I googled
car gas station fire, I got 10 times as many hits as
rv gas station fire. Moral of the story: don't go to gas stations where they fuel cars :D
Despite what seems like a large number of gas station fires, in 60 years of driving cars and RVs, I've never seen a fire or even the evidence of one at a gas station. I have seen a few burned cars in parking lots and along highways, and even one in my garage (I ignited some frame grease while welding on my race car - minor damage - also the only time I've ever used a fire extinguisher on a car or motorhome).