When I mentioned to my family and friends that I was going to buy an RV, their first reaction was something like - "gee that's gonna set you back a few bucks..." Buying an RV is not an inexpensive proposition, but they are a practical luxury with endless possibilities for adventure. One of the reasons I've selected Lazy Daze, is quality build, and the reduced probability of issues after taking delivery. Not to mention that I love the style and layout... From my limited, "newbie" perspective, I've tried to account for all the costs, and sort of came up with a five year plan. The following is a breakdown of those estimated costs. I'm hoping (if all the planets line up for me) the RV purchase will be a cash transaction, so might not have interest payments to deal with. It's also including an expected Lazy Daze price increase (per Todd) for 2019.
2019 24' Lazy Daze Front Dinette: $94,750
Lazy Daze options: $ 7,585
ICC Driver and trip permit: $ 571
Texas Sales Tax (6.25%): $ 6,396
Texas title and license: $ 175
Montclair to Katy est. fuel expense: $ 500
Total: $109,977
Once I get the beautiful, new Lazy Daze RV back to Texas it's about $110K all in. If I decide to go for the 27' RB, it's an additional $6K, with taxes and options. Todd is saying that the difference between the 27RB and 24FD is "like night and day" - so have pondered that as a possibility. However, my wife (who prefers smaller class-B's) is telling me that 24 feet is already "too big" - so should probably play it safe and stick with the original plan. Note: my dear wife (DW) always wins over the salesperson, and usually me for that matter.
With that out of the way, now comes the "fun" part - estimating the average ongoing expenses. There are lots of variables, but some things are fairly consistent. My neighborhood HOA will not allow any vehicle over 6' 7" tall to be in the driveway, so will need to pay for storage. I've opted for a totally enclosed 11x11x30 garage that's a 7 minute bike ride from my house, renting for $115 per month. My auto insurance is estimated to go up by $75/month. So storage and insurance will be about $190 per month, or roughly $2300 per year.
I've made about 20-30 calls around the greater Houston area to RV mechanics, Ford dealerships, and others, and came up with this short list of typical estimated maintenance and repair costs.
Oil change: $45
Rotate 6 tires: $30
Align 6 tires: $72
Trans. fluid, pan drop, and filter change: $200
Complete brake job (rotors and pads) on all four: $1400
Spark plugs, ignition coils, air filter, fuel filter: $1400
Replace all 6 tires: $2500
Typical Dometic AC repairs: $250
Typical Dometic fridge repairs: $300
With all the above in mind, the actual vacationing usage has a wide range of costs. To simplify, I plan to take full advantage of the Texas State Park system with about 80 RV'able campgrounds. It's $70 per year for an entry pass, and an average of $22 per night with full hookups. For the first two years in the Lazy Daze, this will probably be the primary choice. I'm also estimating that gas will creep up to $4 per gallon in Texas (and maybe more as time goes on). My average 2-3 day weekend trip will consume about 37 gallons of gas, or about $150. All told, I'll average about $200 for these short weekend adventures. I'll also plan for 3-4 full weeks of longer adventures. I'm estimating about $1000 per week in gas and campground fees on those longer trips. With 25 expected weekends and 3-4 weeks of longer journeys, this will be about $8500 per year. After retirement, the frequency of trips will increase, with longer stays and better value per trip. Hard to estimate, but shouldn't be much more than $9K-$10K per year.
The bottom line: $110K initial expense, and about $11K per year ongoing or $55K for five years. After 5 years, I'll probably start running into a few of those maintenance items, so likely about $5K. I also expect to accumulate/consume some 3rd party RV stuff along the way, so we'll call that $1000 per year, or $5K in five years. At the end of five years, I'll likely have a grand total of $175K into my Lazy Daze "project". If I decide to quit RV'ing at that point, I might be able to sell the 24FD for about $63K, assuming 38% depreciation. If that happened, the annual cost would have been $22K per year ($112K/5). If I ultimately average at least 60 nights per year, this nets out to about $375 per night. For me, this is a reasonable price/value point per day. After all, I do get the luxury of taking my vacation home all over North America, visiting hundreds of places, sleeping in my own bed, and eating exactly the food I like! If this ends up becoming an ongoing lifestyle thing (i.e. longer than 5 years), then prices go down from there.
I'm sure there's something not accounted for, and maybe skewed estimations in some areas. However, if I set my budgetary expectation of $112K for five years of Lazy Daze RV bliss, this should be in the right ballpark.
I think your tires cost is about $1k too high! — Jon
I just wish I could get the traditional paint. Or at least one of the primary colours on the front overhead.
And yes I know I’m a baaaaad boy for mentioning the change in paint. Though I do like the new paint scheme, I just like the traditional more. Wonder what it cost?
I think your tires cost is about $1k too high! — Jon
I would have to agree this is an area that needs further research. The Ford E450 series spec sheet says these are LT225/75R16 tires. In looking at Tire Rack, the most expensive tire was a Michelin Defender listing at $203 per tire, but discounted to $1147 for a set of six after rebate. So $1350 for installation seems way off.
The problem I ran into was finding someone willing to do the job at that gross weight. At every turn, I was referred back to RV service centers. They were the ones quoting $2500. In using that as a worst case, I would certainly try to find someplace more reasonable.
Thanks for posting this expense summary. We hope to be placing our order soon for delivery next year and your cost estimates help think about what to plan for!
I would have to agree this is an area that needs further research. The Ford E450 series spec sheet says these are LT225/75R16 tires. In looking at Tire Rack, the most expensive tire was a Michelin Defender listing at $203 per tire, but discounted to $1147 for a set of six after rebate. So $1350 for installation seems way off.
The problem I ran into was finding someone willing to do the job at that gross weight. At every turn, I was referred back to RV service centers. They were the ones quoting $2500. In using that as a worst case, I would certainly try to find someplace more reasonable.
I got mine done at Costco. You do have to make special arrangements with the local tire department manager, as the work has to be done on the apron with jacks, not with their lifts. Not all Costco’s will do it. I’m sure others here will weigh in on other chains that will work on a rig. Yes, $1350 for labor is patently absurd. I hope you’re not overthinking the costs angle. RVing is expensive, that’s a given. But we (my wife Loni and I) long ago decided that it’s what we wanted to do in retirement, and that’s what we would spend our money on. End of discussion. We don’t look back at the costs we’ve incurred. That’s all sunk money and I’d be afraid to compute a per-night accounting. What we do look back on is our blog of all the places we’ve been that we never would have seen without an RV. Priceless. — Jon
"I hope you're not overthinking the costs angle. RVing is expensive, that's a given. But we (my wife Loni and I) long ago decided that it's what we wanted to do in retirement, and that's what we would spend our money on. End of discussion. We don't look back at the costs we've incurred. That's all sunk money and I'd be afraid to compute a per-night accounting."
---
I share Jon and Loni's point of view, and I'm sure that many others who have chosen an RV life and travel style do the same. Granted that RVs/ RVing are not an inexpensive way to "goseedo"; I understand the impulse to attempt to project and to justify the initial and ongoing expenses of ownership, and it's certainly prudent to be well aware of the multiple "opportunities" for cash suck before committing. Many are not, and some pretty unpleasant financial surprises are very often the result.
However, the places that I've gone, the things that I've seen and done and experienced, and the people whom I've met, many of whom have become good friends, over more than 40 years of truck/tent camping and RVing (the last 15 in the LD) have been well worth the considerable outlay along the way. I saved for several years to buy the LD, and, of course, budgeted and planned for maintenance, repairs, replacements, add-ons, travel expenses of every type, but always with the acceptance of the fact that any lifestyle choice costs what it costs, when and where and for what one needs to shell out. And, as any rig ages and accrues miles, even a high initial quality build LD, it needs increased maintenance, care, and "parts"; that's a given. If I were overly concerned about being able to afford the lifestyle and travel expenses that rig ownership requires, I'd sell the rig - and miss a whole lot of great adventures and people! And, if I totted up my expenditures over all those years, I'd likely never leave the driveway again! ;)
It's certainly wise to "plan, prepare, and project" and to be aware of the potential costs of rig ownership before buying an RV, but "spreadsheet speculation" without the frame of reference of real-life experience may provide a limited and/or misleading picture.
As ever, YMMV. ;)
Many of us, ok me and a few others, have posted in the past TCO numbers. In my case I came up with a cost of .20 to .25 cents per mile number. The one thing I didn't include is opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is the cost of money you lost by not investing it in some other 'safe' investment.
Either you'll spent the money or someone else will spent it after you die. In any case enjoy. As my mother always said you can replace the money you can't replace the time.
If a person were to spend too much time analyzing the costs of enjoying their Lazy Daze, I assure you there would be no having a good time at any time.
Indeed, it's not the cheapest thing to do and not for the faint of heart (although I have seen a lot of stupid out there). However, there's the opportunity to see the things you've read about, studied in school (we actually had Geography as part of our classical education in the middle of the last century), heard about, seen on TV...whatever. It's a great way to connect with your kids and grandkids, nieces and nephews.
And it's a great education to not only see things in person, but to also talk with people, read different newspapers, learn the area's interests and concerns, and figure out why there are so many opinions about everything that seems so clear to you! You will be astonished by what you learn and never thought about.
Savor the experiences and people you meet, save your money for new tires every 5 years, and get out there and see the stars in the desert and the museums everywhere! I assure you, you will be the envy of your friends, acquaintances and former co-workers.
TinaP
2006 MB "Wild Thing"...wildest thing we ever did financially...hence the name.
In this thread, I really had two goals in mind: Will I be sure there's enough financial resources, now and going forward, making sure this all works in a stress-free way? Also, when someone asks me about the true costs, versus what else I could spend money on, can I break it down to something they can relate to.
I know a number of people who are either already retired or getting ready to do so. One guy that know had a long time goal to get a large sailboat. He did so, and about a year later we were talking, and he said you know what "boat" stands for?? "Break Out Another Thousand". We were both laughing, but I could tell this was kind of a serious thing from his gestures. I sensed that the cash flow needed for this idea, may not have been fully fleshed out. As of recent, he is throwing in the towel, and selling the boat due to a lack of money. This can happen to anyone, and I'm certainly not judging him for going after what made him happy. As for me, I feel better doing the homework, and try to ensure there's cash flow for other things: like medical, dental, insurance deductibles, family emergencies, etc. - basically the unexpected.
In the same token, there are many other ideas about what to do in retirement. Become a frequent cruiser, and see ports all over the world, become a global trekker, or take up simple farming in the country. Each one of these ideas have some sort of price tag, and can be broken down to a cost per day, cents per mile, or outlay of cash. Each one has it's relative merits, with an upside and downside. I also have my own list of retirement ideas, and RV'ing around North America happens to be at the top of the list. Cost wise, it's actually on par, or less expensive than the other ideas. And as Jon has noted, there are some experiences that are priceless - fully agreed!
So writing the long-winded accounting statement in post #1, was a way to compile all this into a way that someone else could comment on. So far, I may have saved about a thousand dollars on tires, when the time comes. In fact, I've already called the local Costco as I happen to be a member. Also, since I have a project management background, I like five year plans. Take all the ideas or concepts, and create a five year plan for each one. Then rank them based on value - what do I get for the amount being spent. In the final analysis, a Lazy Daze RV and what you can do with it, has a pretty high value.
Another option would be to buy a used model in good condition. You would have significant savings off the initial costs. For example, a similar 5 year old model might look like this:
2019 24' Lazy Daze Front Dinette: $94,750 2014 24' Lazy Daze Front Dinette: $63,441
Lazy Daze options: $ 7,585 Lazy Daze options: $0
ICC Driver and trip permit: $ 571 ICC Driver and trip permit: $0
Texas Sales Tax (6.25%): $ 6,396 Texas Sales Tax (6.25%): $3,965
Texas title and license: $ 175 Texas title and license: $175
Montclair to Katy est. fuel expense: $ 500 Montclair to Katy est. fuel expense: $500
Total: $109,977 Total: $68,081
Yes, you would lose quite a bit resale value but much of the depreciation was already suffered by the first owner. And yes, there would be higher maintenance costs, as well as higher gas costs due to the difference of the 6 speed vs. 5 speed tranny but, overall, you would enjoy significant savings.
I enjoy playing around with numbers as well and wholly agree it's better to look at the numbers beforehand! If I may quote my favorite book:
Luke 14/28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
" In the final analysis, a Lazy Daze RV and what you can do with it, has a pretty high value. "
chiron Do you have a name?
In reading your posts I believe you are over estimating most of the factors, particularly if you purchase a new LD. Older ones come with assorted warts. I took delivery of my 2004 30'IB in October of that year. I'm 90,000+ miles and thirteen years into it. I've made a few 'improvements' over those years, all voluntary, but have had no major failures (unless you consider the replacement of two fuel pumps as major). I've always looked upon regular maintenance as cheap insurance.
Boats are looked upon as specialty items and I would much rather have a breakdown with my LD than any size boat!
But the bottom line is; "If you're going to dance, you've got to pay the fiddler!" ::)
" In the final analysis, a Lazy Daze RV and what you can do with it, has a pretty high value. "
chiron Do you have a name?
Yes, it's Rik - I should probably get that into my signature/profile thing.
chiron,
Planning ahead is always fun. It adds perspective to life when your 5 year plan reaches maturity. You said, “So far, I may have saved about a thousand dollars on tires”. You can easily save another $40,000.00 + when buying new by not financing your dream LD.
It’s already been said that planning ahead financially is wise. I had a friend whose grandparents had great dreams of building a home from scratch but were unable to financially achieve their goal of a large home. They spent the next 40 years living in a bungalow at the back of their lot. At least they had that. Planning is great . Execution is everything.
Lazy Daze ownership is wonderful. You're doing well to plan ahead. Your five year plan is encouraging. I hope you achieve your goal.
Kent
A lot can change in five years.
It is fun to estimate the costs of ownership before you purchase a motor home and I went thru a lot of those same calculations. However, the real cost once I sold the LD was a lot more than I could have imagined. We owned our 2004 LD Mid Bath for 6 years and put 35,243 miles on it. When I added up the total cost including depreciation, storage, maintenance, upgrades, insurance, taxes and fuel it cost us $1.92/mile to drive it. This did not include the campground fees we paid along the way.
That wasn't too bad because when we sold the LD, we purchased a 10-year old Foretravel U320 and drove it for 4 years. It ended up costing $3.29/mile to drive.
Others will have wildly varying figures and my figures can not be considered representative of LDs or motor homes in general. RVing is not an inexpensive way to travel but it is still my favorite way to travel and I am not complaining at all about what it costs to do it our way.
Monti
Yes, you would lose quite a bit resale value but much of the depreciation was already suffered by the first owner. And yes, there would be higher maintenance costs, as well as higher gas costs due to the difference of the 6 speed vs. 5 speed tranny but, overall, you would enjoy significant savings.
I enjoy playing around with numbers as well and wholly agree it's better to look at the numbers beforehand! If I may quote my favorite book:
Luke 14/28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
I've also looked at some of the used LD's on RV Trader. A variety of things have held me back from inquiring - the 6 speed transmission happens to be one of those items. There are other reasons as well, but If the right deal came along - who knows?? I do believe I've counted the cost, and if everything falls into place, should be able to consider a new one 16 months from now.
BTW: nice quote!
My auto insurance is estimated to go up by $75/month.
I would not add the RV onto your auto insurance policy...you will want RV-specific insurance and, with a brand new RV, it should include Total Loss Replacement.
What Total Loss Replacement does is buy you a brand new, equivalent, RV if it should be totaled in an accident within the first 5 years. After that, you'd get the amount that you paid for it.
Otherwise, in the case of a total loss, all you'd get would be market value, which would be considerably less.
I've also looked at some of the used LD's on RV Trader. A variety of things have held me back from inquiring - the 6 speed transmission happens to be one of those items. There are other reasons as well, but If the right deal came along - who knows?? I do believe I've counted the cost, and if everything falls into place, should be able to consider a new one 16 months from now.
BTW: nice quote!
Rik, I also believe you have counted the costs so good job! Now if only everyone who is considering a RV purchase would . . .
A lot can change in five years.
Ah, finally a word of wisdom.
What you appear to not have fully considered is the subjective aspect: life, family, work, leisure, friends, interests, etc.
There's a reason the rule-of-thumb in the RV industry is a two-year interest span. Sure, there are always outliers - this board is a great example of people who have been RVing (literally) for decades and show no indication of changing.
On the other side are the classic buy on impulse, use a few times and then park - never to be used again as the rigs age & rot. In between these two extremes are the great bulk of average, everyday RV users; let's say 80%. I would say we definitely fall in the 80% category - over the last 6 years of ownership we have waxed and waned between using and ignoring.
First up, (grand) kids: they can be coerced - heck, might even enjoy - at pre-teen, but then it all changes. So, you're faced with two choices - insist and be collectively miserable, or do other things. We chose to do 'other things'.
Two, the appeal of "other things" seems to be greatly underestimated. Again, let's use us as an example. We are all fully aware of how fast technology is advancing in many everyday items, not the least of which of course is the 'net, but also motor vehicles. But what about airplanes? Yes, airplanes, because if you've checked airfares over the last few years, you may have noticed they've dropped quite a bit.
The net-net is on a whim you can jet off to Paris for a week for, surprise surprise, around your $375/day cost. Same is true of any destination you may not have previously considered, but discover it's now really pretty affordable. So, we also fall in this category - over our time of ownership, we've averaged 2-3 trips to Europe each year ... just because we could.
Third of course is health, life changes, etc. What's the saying? Life comes at you fast. If a situation came up where you no longer could/wished to use your RV, your cost analysis becomes pretty inaccurate (especially depreciation).
The bottom line is an RV purchase should be something, that depending on your income/wealth level, shouldn't put a hurt on if things go sideways or upside down. You might ask yourself this question: what if I had to sell the rig in 1 year? Will I regret the financial hit or does it even matter?
I post now and then about our total cost of ownership and the growing list of items that have been repaired/replaced. Usually, my concluding remarks are something along the line of "I could leave the rig on the side of the road and walk-away. It would suck, but it wouldn't be a disaster." (Around $20k at this point.)
If I may, let me add a personal perspective of a real series of events that occurred to one of our neighbors.
Last summer, she bought a brand-new Airstream Bambi off the lot in Westminster. She had planned on using for fun, short family trips. The first week they brought it home, they took it out overnight that same weekend.
However, around 3 weeks later, her mom suddenly passed away after becoming ill on vacation. She was close to her parents, to this threw the entire family into a bit of chaos. Naturally, thoughts of using the trailer going hither and yon soon fell by the wayside.
After around 6 months of her beginning to emotionally get back on her feet, her ex-husband was diagnosed with ALS. Now, they had been divorced for at least 10 years, so there's not much connection remaining. That is, except for the fact that her daughter, with whom she is also very close and just graduated from UO, needs to deal with the hereditary factors. So off to Houston she goes where her Dad is undergoing treatment.
Lastly, dear daughter was accepted to not one, but two medical schools, so now all thoughts of randomly travelling around seem small in comparison. She's got her surviving dad, her ailing ex, her on-the-way daughter, with the net result that the little Bambi has not moved off her driveway in the year since they took it out for that one quick overnighter.
We were talking to her over the 4th and it looks like she's decided to sell the trailer ...
"Third of course is health, life changes, etc."
And along with 'life changes' comes all sorts of unexpected annoyances! One that comes to mind are urgent bowel signals that cannot be ignored (sorry, delicate subject here), not even for the short period while you look for a wide spot in the road.
Being shackled to a toilet is not the most enjoyable part of aging, only one of them. But it does tend to keep me close to home. >:(
Hi Chiron. We are about 72000 miles on our 2011 LD mid-bath. Here in PA we have mandatory, annual vehicle inspections. Just last month we had our rig inspected again, and our brakes are reported to be in excellent shape. This was verified a couple of weeks later in Kingman AZ where we took the rig for oil service (and they performed a courtesy brake check) during our cross country trek. So your budget figure for brake pads could be premature depending, of course, on where you drive, and your driving habits. We do a lot of Interstate driving while others prefer more "country" roads which likely requires more braking.
Good luck with your purchase.
Hi Chiron. We are about 72000 miles on our 2011 LD mid-bath. Here in PA we have mandatory, annual vehicle inspections. Just last month we had our rig inspected again, and our brakes are reported to be in excellent shape. This was verified a couple of weeks later in Kingman AZ where we took the rig for oil service (and they performed a courtesy brake check) during our cross country trek. So your budget figure for brake pads could be premature depending, of course, on where you drive, and your driving habits. We do a lot of Interstate driving while others prefer more "country" roads which likely requires more braking.
Good luck with your purchase.
That's good information to know! I keep hearing how these E-450's are solidly built, and that's just another testimony for the list.
In my effort to "count the cost", there's always a number of assumptions that have to be made. My philosophy, is to try and and come up with a worst case scenario, stare at that number, and see if I'm comfortable with it. Once in motion however, there will be a number of optimizations, and I'll try to reduce that number along the way. Some things will end up being better, and other things will crop up that you didn't expect. Murphy's Law seems to not care about one's agenda or schedule. So I'm always doing things to try and keep Murphy contained. ;D
-Rik
Rik,
When we purchased our ‘15 RB, I had a plan. Plan for the expected and be ready for the unexpected.
With this in mind, I have “banked” the funds for each contingency. Paint Job: 15 years expected life span. Batteries: 3-5 years. Tires: 5 years. The list goes on and includes insurance etc.
Each items cost is divided by their individual life expectancy and the total sum becomes my monthly deposit into my “ LD Fund”. So far I am aprox 15 months ahead of schedule.
Everything else is out of pocket as the need arises...fuel, maintenance etc.
That’s just me. I hope it all works out.
Kent
"The cynic knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing" Oscar Wilde
What about TVO, Total Value of Ownership?
I tend to think similarly to Kent, keeping savings to cover upcoming normal and expected anticipated expenses for RV, auto, house, K9s, etc. A bit more to cover the unexpecteds, particularly w/ K9's.
In planning road trips, I usually budget about $4K/mo, especially for cross country trips where I won't be doing a lot of boondocking. At the end of the trip, surplus goes back to savings.
YMMV
joel
A good budget/savings is like a good bike lock. Good to keep the pesky fingers away but all to often easily picked.
Stay strong.
Kent
Hi Rik and Lanie, I'd also like to welcome you to the Fold. Planning for future costs are always fun, as a mental exercise, and in anticipation too. I liked your layout. Many PM costs are related to time, and others are related to mileage.
The number one Good cost you estimated in was indoor storage. At 19 years of exposure on my "Bluebelle' being stored outdoors has been the worst factor. My parents had to store their 5 or 6 motorhomes at remote locations essentially outdoors without protection, had common break-ins to steal things ( a CB!, must have been worth at least $15, damage $200), and sometimes just to vandalize. Mine sits in my driveway, with alarm, and 'hardened' systems. Secure storage here is in the $400 a month range, even for a short 24".
I think your maintenance costs are too high, then again things will crop up that weren't planned for. Best to be prepared. Someone here opted for a machine wash at a truck place and the people used something that essentially stripped off the paint. In Texas, you know about large hail stones. We were away, but parked at my mother in laws house. Southern Fort Worth. Hail caused $$$$ of damage to the neighbors house, but not my MIL or the motorhome. Priceless moment: watching a funnel cloud form directly over you, at my SIL's house! Unexpected accidents like Kent's door, happen to all of us, most are a lot more expensive. I have 3" clearance in my driveway between my bumper and the house. At least the stucco didn't cost much, I bought my own Harbor Freight hydraulic dent 'pusher' after I borrowed a friends a few times. I won't talk about that fire hydrant in Roswell NM. Yes the back end does swing around as Tiger knows. (Tiger, I had inflicted damage to my paint just a day after I picked her up at LD)
I do my own oil/filter changes with Mobil 1. Air cleaner is way too easy to pay someone else. Haven't changed the xmsn oil or filter yet. Bleed my own brakes every 2-3 years (DOT4). You won't need spark plugs, coils, fuel filters for a long time, but you will have unexpected items, which you did account for. You didn't include new batteries, I don't buy the $Trojan brand, I get the Costco ones about every 4-5 years. I don't rotate tires. Don't forget the seventh tire, the spare ages out. Ford and Lazy Daze recommend a front end alignment after a few months, fully loaded. I used bricks on the front seat floor boards to simulate passenger and driver weight. I have never needed to change that since. Tapered bushing replacement parts in the front end. I should think about changing the transmission fluid soon, but not a priority yet. Coolant I've changed. Belt and hoses soon, front ball joint bellows soon, new steering damper (tomorrow). I've only spent $12 roof air conditioner (new foam filter, old ones disintegrating). Nothing on the cab A/C, reefer, water pump, oven, stovetop or electrical. I had to add my solar system, yours is included. I did have to replace the TPV on my water heater. Really shouldn't turn it on unless there is water in it. (oopsi !) At 10-15 years, a roof reseal, new escape hatch, for you just the 14x14 hatch covers. A skylight if you get another floor plan. Towing gear if you decide to tow. I think your insurance costs will be higher, and a good towing plan is good to have. At 19 years I still spend more than you for registration in California.
I think your expenses will come in much lower, but as Larry says, it isn't an inexpensive lifestyle. We still manage to travel out of country and have gone on quite a few cruises, so you aren't dialed in to just motorhoming.
Friends of mine, who live on their 42' boat, thought that comment about 'Break Out Another Thousand' should be amended to 'BOATT', another Ten Thousand. RonB
Lazy Bones is spot on. An RV dollar is $500. A boat dollar is $1000 ;)
Hi Rik and Lanie, I'd also like to welcome you to the Fold.
Thanks Ron - We really enjoy the hospitality of the Lazy Daze crowd! Hope to meet some fellow owners in the future.
Secure storage here is in the $400 a month range, even for a short 24".
They've also got that sort of price range here as well, but would be for a 14x50 unit. Someone is also starting up an "elite" RV storage for about $450/month. This is a massive indoor building that's temperature controlled - mostly for making sure things don't ever freeze. They offer a valet service, and will wash, wax, and clean your RV (of course for an extra fee). If you are going to be leaving the rig for a while, they'll start things up for you periodically as well.
I believe the prices were overall much less about one year ago. However, when Hurricane Harvey hit and caused the massive flooding, all available RV storage units were snapped up. I've been told by the RV storage managers they still have flood victims belongings in there, and will be some time before that all gets sorted out.
I think your maintenance costs are too high, then again things will crop up that weren't planned for. Best to be prepared.
So far, it's been a bit frustrating calling the various places around Houston. I think there's just been so many people buying RVs that it's turned into a gold rush for the RV repair places. I've been inquiring to places within 30-60 minutes from the greater Houston area, and finding some better options. I also don't mind changing my own oil, but someone at Ford suggested that I get someone to do it for me (Ford or others) until the warranty expires. That way I'd have paperwork to back things up - just in case.
-Rik
it's been a bit frustrating calling the various places around Houston
Because the economy is so strong across the board, attempting to get anyone to do anything (of quality) is presenting a challenge for everyone. If you think trying to find a suitable road shop is difficult, try getting some bids for home improvement/construction. Forgetaboutit.
We had a great relationship with a local auto shop that serviced our rig for 5 years, but we became a bit stranded when they sold the business last year. The new owners weren't qualified, so I spent around 9 months searching for a new source. Tried 3 different places before I finally hit paydirt with the 4th.
Really, in hindsight, part of the reason we were even able to restore/maintain our '93 was due to our relationship with the first shop. I was beginning to think that if we couldn't find a suitable replacement, our RV ownership days may have been numbered. Now, I'm not talking about regular DIY stuff like oil changes, electrical issues, reefer problems, etc, but things like replacing an exhaust manifold gasket. We have a 454 jammed into our 22' G30, so to say it's a tight fit is an understatement.
My suggestion to you is to put on your 'salesman' hat and actually visit some shops. It's crazy, but the customer-provider relationship is now inverted. It's like you have to audition for their business - especially if they are any good. My new contact (co-owner with a business his dad started) is a "car guy", so we hit it off pretty well. He actually likes LDs, likes my G30, and really likes the idea of the 454 jammed in there. (He's worked on plenty of LDs with 350s, 460s & V10s.)
Without a good relationship, you're just a sitting duck. You can be ignored, blown off and ripped off. There are some major RV dealers around where we live, and for those who bought class A rigs that need servicing, I feel kinda sorry for them. My guess is between changing interests and ongoing negative dealings and cash outflow, the average 2 year RV ownership/usage cycle is in no danger of lengthening.
dupe
That's good information to know! I keep hearing how these E-450's are solidly built, and that's just another testimony for the list.
In my effort to "count the cost", there's always a number of assumptions that have to be made. My philosophy, is to try and and come up with a worst case scenario, stare at that number, and see if I'm comfortable with it. Once in motion however, there will be a number of optimizations, and I'll try to reduce that number along the way. Some things will end up being better, and other things will crop up that you didn't expect. Murphy's Law seems to not care about one's agenda or schedule. So I'm always doing things to try and keep Murphy contained. ;D
-Rik
Hi Rik, I like your style. I'm a big "spreadsheet" wonk and did all kinds of projections before we put the order in for our new 2017 27'MB back in August 2016. In the last fourteen months since we picked it up from the mother ship we've been out for seven months (retired). The LD was part of a total plan of downsizing and repositioning our lives. First, I sold my house in St. Pete that I owned free and clear. Then Marie and I had a huge estate sale to liquidate everything we owned that wouldn't fit into a tiny home we purchased in Sebring, Florida for winters. The LD was bought so we could visit all our families during the spring/summer/fall time frames in North Carolina, Cape Cod, Detroit, the Twin Cities and Arizona. I look at expenses based on days we are on the road, rather than cost per mile, since we are plan to be out between 120 and 150 days a year. We divide our stays between private campgrounds, state campgrounds, national parks and county parks and make sure we are taking care maintaining the vehicles properly. At this point, we are running about $20,000 to $24,000 a year all-in (including depreciation, storage, insurance, maintenance, gas, campgrounds, etc.). We've talked about what we could do with $24,000 a year in travel if we didn't have the LD, and of course, we could do some cruises, fly and stay near family, etc. But we wouldn't be in our own "home on the road", sleeping in our own bed or seeing all the extra things we've been seeing. Who knows; there may come a time we decided to make changes. But at this point, it's all working out and we are enjoying the lifestyle. Good luck. I've always been willing to spend money for quality, knowing that in the end, it it's about value.
David
" At this point, we are running about $20,000 to $24,000 a year all-in (including depreciation, storage, insurance, maintenance, gas, campgrounds, etc.). We've talked about what we could do with $24,000 a year in travel if we didn't have the LD, and of course, we could do some cruises, fly and stay near family, etc."
Being a number person - after all I'm retired - this brought up what would I spent per year without an LD.
Avg cost in USA of hotel room is $135
Avg cost of eating in USA is $13 per meal.
$135*120 = $16,200
$13*120 = $1560
So just hotels and eating on avg for 120 day is $17760
Avg plane ticket between $300 and $400 btw held steady from 1990 to today. Little higher in the 90's.....
Assume three airplane fights $1000 avg.
Assume avg USA Entertainment spending $ 2,728 CONSUMER EXPENDITURES--2016 (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm)
<smile> we are now at $21488
Of course all the numbers are at best guessing and have a plus or minus of 1000 per cent but the point is its your money. And as mother always said "you can replace the money you can't replace the time". Enjoy the life ya got 100% of the time.
"
Being a number person - after all I'm retired - this brought up what would I spent per year without an LD.
Avg cost in USA of hotel room is $135
Avg cost of eating in USA is $13 per meal.
$135*120 = $16,200
$13*120 = $1560
So just hotels and eating on avg for 120 day is $17760
I think some revision on your meal cost is in order. Are you only eating one meal a day? Is this for only one person? “Fast food” only? Tax and tip included? We find meals to be a lot more expensive, and “eating in” to be a significant cost savings factor. YMMV, of course. 🤔 — Jon
I think some revision on your meal cost is in order. Are you only eating one meal a day? Is this for only one person? “Fast food” only? Tax and tip included? We find meals to be a lot more expensive, and “eating in” to be a significant cost savings factor. YMMV, of course. 🤔 — Jon
Yes good point. I was in one person mode for the meals and air travel. <sigh> see what happens when I get in accounting mode. Yes that just eating one meal. I assume if you are in a hotel room you'll get the 'free' breakfast and somehow only eat what I call entertainment snacks for lunch.
New number corrected for 'real' life -- ie two folks
Adding in one more person move the total to $20,320.
New number corrected for 'real' life -- ie two folks
Adding in one more person move the total to $20,320.
Plus dog food......
"Being a number person - after all I'm retired - this brought up what would I spent per year without an LD.
Avg cost in USA of hotel room is $135
Avg cost of eating in USA is $13 per meal.
$135*120 = $16,200
$13*120 = $1560
So just hotels and eating on avg for 120 day is $17760
Avg plane ticket between $300 and $400 btw held steady from 1990 to today. Little higher in the 90's.....
Assume three airplane fights $1000 avg.
Assume avg USA Entertainment spending $ 2,728 CONSUMER EXPENDITURES--2016
<smile> we are now at $21488"
•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•
I am a big fan of "what equals what", and everyone's posts above suggests I am not alone in this quest. I started out with this concept in the late 80's when trying to figure out how to reach geographic goals on the ground and at low cost. Better to rent or buy an RV?
History: In 1980, Eastern Airlines had a special that for $450., one could travel anywhere that Eastern went for THREE WEEKS. Long story short, I managed 43,000 miles in those three weeks, solo. I ate a lot of meals on the planes, as every flight went through Atlanta! A friend who was an air hostess on Eastern advised that I request vegetarian meals, so I did. Broccoli is very prominent in this venue, but I didn't get sick or bloated from chemicals. I stayed with friends at each stop, but WOW - what an experience !!
Can't hold a candle to having one's own chariot and living quarters at the ready, though.
Fiscal considerations aside, my biggest reason for wanting our own facilities is just that . . . they are our OWN facilities. Too many stories about bedbugs these days, even in high-priced accommodations, to suit me, and unsanitary conditions provide a real-time danger to someone whose immune system has been compromised with the meds that keep cancer at bay!
Eating out in unfamiliar territory is risky, so being able to cook in place has more than just fiscal appeal.
A biggy for me is "the fatigue factor". When tired, a clean, safe place to rest is available. And we don't need to go into how comforting it is to have one's own "comfort station"! ;->
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Meals can be mitigated by using suite hotels and buying groceries, but that is chasing nickels. The big costs I see are the hotels.
I track out spending over all travel, which includes Lazy Daze, van camping and hotel hybrid trips, and European BnB travel.
Europe avg lodging cost for two over 3 months-$74
Lazy Daze over 9 months of boondocking, state and federal camps- $19.51
Van/hotel hybrid, over 155 nights, including nights with relatives (easy to use the van in a residential driveway) from $19 - $30, depending on the season, locations, etc.
For food, we spend what we spend at home. More dining out in the road, but restaurant prices are much lower than where we live, except in NYC.
I’m not sure what this means, but the costs we look at are the cost of a home, which we spitball at $7500 (net of the cost of a storage unit) per year, though the electric bill is climbing, and the DSL line is getting to be outside the acceptable range. But then, we don’t have a big depreciation cost to think of, our ‘92 is almost fully deprecated, and may be increasing in value, if the prices we see in ads is considered. The maintenance bill is low, unless you look at the “upgrades” I have made and the labor cost I have enjoyed.
So is there a bottom line? Not to us. We can afford to travel in the way we do, so we do. If we had to adjust our style, we would.
A biggy for me is "the fatigue factor". When tired, a clean, safe place to rest is available. And we don't need to go into how comforting it is to have one's own "comfort station"! ;->
And sleeping in your own bed every night is priceless .
We have done our fair share of suitcase traveling and sleep issues are always a problem.
It take me three days to get used to a new bed and eating every meal out isn't a healthy thing to do for long periods.
In contrast, traveling this summer in the PWN, access to farmer's markets, and road side fruit and vegetable stands has provided us with wide variety of produce plus different types of fresh sea food, wines and ciders .
Just wish we could do it on $13 a day.
Larry
" At this point, we are running about $20,000 to $24,000 a year all-in (including depreciation, storage, insurance, maintenance, gas, campgrounds, etc.). We've talked about what we could do with $24,000 a year in travel if we didn't have the LD, and of course, we could do some cruises, fly and stay near family, etc."
Being a number person - after all I'm retired - this brought up what would I spent per year without an LD.
Avg cost in USA of hotel room is $135
Avg cost of eating in USA is $13 per meal.
$135*120 = $16,200
$13*120 = $1560
So just hotels and eating on avg for 120 day is $17760
Avg plane ticket between $300 and $400 btw held steady from 1990 to today. Little higher in the 90's.....
Assume three airplane fights $1000 avg.
Assume avg USA Entertainment spending $ 2,728 CONSUMER EXPENDITURES--2016 (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm)
<smile> we are now at $21488
Of course all the numbers are at best guessing and have a plus or minus of 1000 per cent but the point is its your money. And as mother always said "you can replace the money you can't replace the time". Enjoy the life ya got 100% of the time.
[/quote
The statistician replied to the CEO who gave him the numbers and asked him what they meant, "What do you want them to mean?" We spent 7 nights in the Grand Tetons National Park in Bossa Nova and if we spent the same time in the Jackson Lake Lodge, five miles down the road, we would have paid $2,320 to $2,800. We paid $460. Ditto for Yellowstone, NYC, and Cape Cod. The numbers listed above don't take into account the 7,500 miles we put in for our three-month jaunts, either. As a Regional Director I spent years on the road, living in hotel rooms, and if I had to do 120 days a year in hotel rooms now, I'd shoot myself. Finally, I believe your food calculation is a bit off. Let's say you are capable of eating slop 3xs a day and are too cheap to tip, $13 x 3 meals a day x 2 people x 120 days = $9,360. As my mother always said, "you are what you eat."