First, allow me to mention that I've read a good deal about the frequency of oil change intervals (miles & time) on this Forum and elsewhere. I've noticed (as others have noticed) that as the quality of engine oil has improved, Ford has occasionally changed the recommend frequency of oil changes. However, I haven't found any guidance for the following condition.
Recently, I bought Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 at a very good price, which is reported to offer 15,000 miles of protection. ( Mobil 1™ Extended Performance Oil | Mobil™ Motor Oils (https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-extended-performance) ) I also used the recommended Mobil 1 oil filter.
QUESTION: What would be reasonable mileage between oil changes with this grade of Mobil 1 oil while towing?
Footnote: Ford recommends every 5,000 miles when towing for our 2009 E450 which is probably not based on Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 oil. Hence the question.
I wouldn't change the oil change procedure from whatever is recommended by Ford. If the oil is in better shape at the interval recommended, be glad you experienced less wear-and-tear than with inferior oil. For those years which give you a percentage of remaining oil life indication, they may have a sensor that measures oil contamination, and it may extend your interval beyond what it was previously.
Steve
For those years which give you a percentage of remaining oil life indication, they may have a sensor that measures oil contamination, and it may extend your interval beyond what it was previously.
From Ford ...
Beginning with the 2011 model year, most Ford and Lincoln vehicles are equipped with an Intelligent Oil Life Monitor™ (IOLM) that determines when the engine oil should be changed based on vehicle operation.
How the IOLM works
The IOLM does not use oil quality sensors – it is entirely software-based and uses actual engine operating conditions to calculate the oil change interval by using an algorithm. This algorithm takes into account the following factors by analyzing various engine sensor inputs.
• Driving Habits
• Idle time
• Temperature
The IOLM adjusts the oil change interval according to how the customer operates their vehicle. It uses the engine operating conditions to precisely calculate service intervals. The customer’s actual engine oil change interval will depend on the following operating conditions:
• Normal commuting with highway driving – up to 10,000 miles
• Trailer tow/high load driving – 5,000 to 7,500 miles
• Short trip usage, extreme temperatures – 3,000 to 5,000 miles
Source: https://www.lombardfordwarrantys.com/resources/pdf/Intelligent-Oil-Life-Reference-Guide.pdf
I have a 2003; it's not very intelligent, so I have to do the thinking for it!
I probably don't have to change the oil and filter as often as I have done/do, but I use the manual-recommended Motorcraft 5W-20 dino/synthetic blend and an old-school 3000-mile interval. At the next change, I will capture a bit of the "flow" and send the sample off to Blackstone for analysis; what the result shows may suggest a change in my long-time regimen. However, I believe that oil and filters are cheap insurance toward engine longevity, so, unless the analysis suggests a protocol change in oil management, I'll probably stick with thinking for my dumb old engine! ;)
At the next change, I will capture a bit of the "flow" and send the sample off to Blackstone for analysis ...
I hope you post the results as this seems like a very good idea. I'd certainly like to give this a try too.
It still has about 1000 miles before the next change (and the turn-around time from Blackstone is unknown), but I will post the results.
It still has about 1000 miles before the next change (and the turn-around time from Blackstone is unknown), but I will post the results.
Probably overthinking this before the am caffeine kicks in, but from where do you take the sample? If the oil has time to settle before the change, taking the last drips might catch more than the average amount of contaminants. Taking from the drip pan would get a sample for breakdown analysis with marginally fewer settled contaminants.
Joel, these are Blackstone's oil sampling instructions; remarkably similar to the procedure for taking a sample for a different "flow analysis"! ;)
Gas Sampling (https://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas-sampling.php)
Ran across this article that you might find interesting.
Synthetic Oil and Oil Viscosity | Coach-Net (https://blog.coach-net.com/2018/06/21/synthetic-oil-and-oil-viscosity/)
Jim
Ran across this article that you might find interesting.
Synthetic Oil and Oil Viscosity | Coach-Net (https://blog.coach-net.com/2018/06/21/synthetic-oil-and-oil-viscosity/)
Jim
Read the article. I have one small problem with the sales demo - a Styrofoam cup is a different material then a gas/diesel engine. IMHO this was a pure sales tick having nothing to do with a fact based scientific demo of the different type of oils.
I have driven a lot of miles in my work trucks and have always changed the oil every 3000 to 5000 hiway miles. One pickup had 300,000 miles and it's replacement now has 500,000 miles. In my book, oil is cheep to achieve longevity.
Recently, I bought Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 at a very good price, which is reported to offer 15,000 miles of protection. ( Mobil 1™ Extended Performance Oil | Mobil™ Motor Oils (https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-extended-performance) ) I also used the recommended Mobil 1 oil filter.
QUESTION: What would be reasonable mileage between oil changes with this grade of Mobil 1 oil while towing?
Footnote: Ford recommends every 5,000 miles when towing for our 2009 E450 which is probably not based on Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 oil. Hence the question.
I have reported this before.
About 15 years ago, at LAX, we tested regular dyno oil vs. synthetics (Mobil 1).
We used a cross section from our fleet of several hundred cars and trucks.
The conclusion was normal, dyno oil is good for 7500 miles, under the operating conditions we have at LAX.
My work Ford Ranger was in the test and it suffered from hours of idling, while working out on the runways where we never turned the engines off, in case a rapid departure was require (a plane entering a closed section).
Even in this poor operating environment, the oil was still good at 7500 miles.
Synthetics were found to be fine for 12,000 miles intervals.
It was decide that 7500 miles was the maximum time to keep vehicles in the field without a full inspection, allowing the use of the cheaper dyno oil, except in vehicles that were specified to run synthetics by the manufacturer.
At the time, I drove a Dodge Dakota 80 miles a day to work and used the 12,000 mile change interval, along with Mobil 1.
I sold it at 120,000 miles to my brother who continued the same interval. It now has over 250,000 miles without any engine work other than normal maintenance .
Most likely, it would have lasted just as long using dyno oil and a shorter change interval.
Modern refined oils are very superior to the oils we used 30 years ago.
Larry
For what's it worth on this somewhat controversial topic, I wrote to Mobil 1 Customer Service and asked the question at the top of this post. On June 11, 2018, I received a reply and in essence Mobil 1 agrees with the above post from Larry Wade. In addition, Mobil 1 offered the following guidance.
"The Mobil 1 Extended Performance limited warranty is valid for 15,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer. Additional requirements for all Mobil 1 Extended Performance products include: (1) Oils must be put in service not later than five (5) years from the date of purchase; and (2) an oil change must be completed every twelve (12) months."
At any rate, I've obtained an answer to my original question which gives me some comfort as we go forward.
All this is well and good for vehicles out of warranty, however, one might wonder what Ford or other manufactures would say if you don’t have documented proof that oil changes were completed according to their 5,000 mile maintenance schedule.
I use full synthetic oil in my rig and was annoyed by the on board computers constant reminders to service my oil. So dispite knowing that full synthetic can “go the distance” I headed to my local Ford Service Center and coughed up the $100+ to get some peace of mind and that piece of paper.
Hey, I’m ok with that. 😖
Kent
Fluid change frequency is hotly debated on every RV and automobile forum I've ever visited. Go with whatever schedule YOU feel comfortable with. Just don't violate any warranty terms and you'll be fine.
Move along, there's nothing to see here . . . :)
I use full synthetic oil in my rig and was annoyed by the on board computers constant reminders to service my oil. So dispite knowing that full synthetic can “go the distance” I headed to my local Ford Service Center and coughed up the $100+ to get some peace of mind and that piece of paper.
Hey, I’m ok with that. 😖
Kent
/sarcasm mode on
$100 ........ Got to love Ford Service Center -- Did they include a kiss good bye also.
/sarcasm mode off
I also check the Ford Truck web page to get this coupon Ford Truck "The Works" (https://www.northsideford.net/parts-service-coupons/index.htm) costs around $50 or so here in Portland
About 18 months ago, someone on the Forum mentioned that access to the E450 oil filter and drain plug is among the easiest to reach. For whatever aging reason, I hadn't considered doing it myself although years ago I changed the oil in all my vehicles. So our oil change costs us the price of the oil and oil filter. And I have more confidence that the oil filter is properly tightened and drain plug is properly torqued. In addition, I save a bunch of time doing it myself rather than driving and waiting at a service center. We recycle the oil at a local auto parts store. (I also clean or replace the air filter, grease the front steering assembly, check/clean the battery terminals, and so forth).
I can't sing, I can't dance, I'm colored blind, and I have 10 thumbs, but I can change the oil. And that is easier than mowing my yard.
Cold dog said, “I also check the Ford Truck web page to get this coupon Ford Truck "The Works" costs around $50 or so here in Portland”
Well how bout that...who knew? I just checked on line and located Fords coupon page and found my local Ford Center that I use. The coupon says “up to 5 quarts of synthetic plus filter” but doesn’t mention the discount value. Hey it’s a start.
Thanks
Kent
The shop labor rate at a local Ford truck center is $200 per hour; 6 quarts of Motorcraft 5W20 and an FL820S Motorcraft filter at Walmart is less than $40. As long as I can still wiggle under the rig, I will do the oil and filter change, and whatever else I can manage without lashing something up. ;)
YMMV, of course.
Kent, I need some oil change coupons!
Six quarts of Mobil 1, and a matching Mobil 1 filter, cost $38 when bought at Walmart, the best price found locally .
Mobil 1 5W-20 Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 qt. - Walmart.com (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-5W-20-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-5-qt/17018132)
Mobil 1 M1-210A Extended Performance Oil Filter - Walmart.com (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-M1-210A-Extended-Performance-Oil-Filter/121760074)
For a little more, you can have the extended mileage formula.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance Advanced Full Synthetic 5W-20 Motor Oil, 5 qts... (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Extended-Performance-Advanced-Full-Synthetic-5W-20-Motor-Oil-5-qts/20971334)
For the best value, buy only the 5-qt containers, with cost coming to $4.60 a quart. It's more expensive in the 1-qt containers.
With synthetic oil this cheap, there is no good reason not to use it plus it is good for more miles between changes, if that is what you want or need to do. I don't worry about adding an extra thousand miles, if on vacation where changing would be a hassle.
Do buy a oil filter wrench, sized to fit the filter you use. Filters are only installed hand tight but, after a couple thousand miles, can be very tough to loosen.
Larry
Ed said, "I can't sing, I can't dance, I'm colored blind, and I have 10 thumbs, but I can change the oil. And that is easier than mowing my yard."
...and I was so excited to learn about/change the in-line fuel filter on my Baby Deere X324 last Sunday. ;D Y'all make this sound so easy, & it really was simple when my neighbor led me through the process on the Ford 4000 SU. I've got my dad's creeper in the garage & I've gone sliding under the beast after the lesson at Ladeze to tighten bolts...hmmmm...gonna have to think on this one.
Lynne
"Y'all make this sound so easy, & it really was simple when my neighbor led me through the process on the Ford 4000 SU. I've got my dad's creeper in the garage & I've gone sliding under the beast after the lesson at Ladeze to tighten bolts...hmmmm...gonna have to think on this one."
With 40+ years of RV'ing under our belts, we've decided, particularly at our age, that the most cost effective method FOR US is to take our vehicles to a trusted mechanic for routine maintenance. Not being schooled in the in's and out's of all things "motor", we trust our mechanic to look at everything when he overcharges us for changing the oil, and let us know if there is anything amiss. Actually, I don't think there is any overcharging at all. The prices paid (at least here in Tiny Town) are quite reasonable.
I just checked our last bill where we had the maintenance service on our Sportsmobile, and the labor charge for changing the oil and the check up was $25.00. The check up was actually useful in that they told us what would need attention within the next year. Nothing was marked as "Urgent". There was no "upselling" of services.
That said . . . $200. an hour??? GASP! It's hard to remember our days in The Bay Area twenty years ago, but Joan's post was certainly a shocker!!!
Virtual hugs,
Judie <-- Sierra Vista, Arizona
Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)
Today: Wall Art at Tucson Cancer Clinic
*****************************************
Y'all make this sound so easy.....I've got my dad's creeper in the garage & I've gone sliding under the beast after the lesson at Ladeze to tighten bolts.
----
Lynne, I don't use a creeper because the front end of my LD is not up on ramps for an oil change. I just lay down a mat and squirm under the rig. I use this mat, but a piece of heavy cardboard, preferably one that can be stored in a compartment or under a couch cushion (if the cardboard is grubby, a layer of newspapers top and bottom) works well.
(Amazon.com: Bedrug TW2X4MAT TrailerWare Charcoal Grey 2' x 4' Folding Track... (https://www.amazon.com/Bedrug-TW2X4MAT-TrailerWare-Charcoal-Folding/dp/B0097JQ32O/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1530133862&sr=1-2&keywords=bedrug+truck+mat)
It's a little tight doing the oil change without ramping up the front, but certainly doable. Just be sure to take everything needed to do the job when you scoot under the rig; multiple under and back out "scoots and wiggles" can be a bit hard on old bones! (You probably can figure out why I mention this. ::) )
I have had the oil changes for my minivan done by Walmart since many years and I was always very satisfied with it. The people who work in the Lube & Tire department know in my opinion very well what they are doing, have given me more than once good advice and never tried to upsell. I also like that I get a bill there that tells me whether they found something to be wrong and how my tire pressure is doing. All that is stored in their system so that every Walmart in the country knows about some of the history of my car.
When I had my last oil change I asked them whether they would do that also for my RV and they said yes. Are there any reasons not to do it with Walmart? In general, what is the cost for an oil change for a Lazy Daze?
Nick--
Your Walmart may be better than my Walmart in Chillicothe...I used to use them for the minivan, until they apparently forgot to replace the oil filler cap. "I've always depended on the kindness of strangers" as Blanche Dubois said in A Streetcar Named Desire, so I never checked their work--which meant I had no proof it was Walmart that left the cap sitting on the battery where I found it after a dreadful experience getting stranded in Kansas City/getting towed back to north Missouri/a new engine... The Walmart lawyers of course have all sorts of liability reasons as to why I couldn't be in the shop area, but I now go to an independent mechanic who a great teacher--like a good DR who explains things in simple language so the patient understands the diagnosis & treatment recommendations, Brian tells me everything that needs doing & why, even though I'm never going to practice either medicine or mechanical work beyond my simple layman's level of first aid. Unfortunately, Brian's shop is not designed to get the LD in without blocking his other bays, so he declined to work on her, but I found another independent mechanic not too far away who does big trucks/etc., & I'm pleased with Kevin's work--he, too, talks me through everything he does.
Having seen the various discussions of Camping World & knowing I wouldn't take the LD there unless all other options were exhausted, I wouldn't take the LD to the Walmart in Chillicothe, but Joan's mantra, YMMV, continues to apply.
Lynne
Hi Nick - I would like to echo Lynne's sentiments..with a caveat. If you have a WalMart (or any other place for that matter) where you feel comfortable & confident with the personnel and work conducted then by all means take her to that place. Even if this trusted place costs a few pennies more, or on the other hand is universally maligned, it is worth it for your piece of mind.
That's the caveat part...here's my echo part...IMHO I wouldn't trust the "mechanics" at wally as far as I could throw them. I wouldn't even let wally put air in my tires unless it's an emergent situation. Not one to go bashin' businesses, after all it's a good place for cheap fluids (as has been mentioned), but that's about it. Missing lug nuts, fasteners not torqued and/or broken, loose drain plugs are common conditions following a visit to wally..."Back in the day" things were different @ wally, but that hasn't been the case for a long time now.
Tread carefully friend!
Hi Nick. About $35 for 6 quarts of full synthetic Mobil 1, and a new oil filter, about $10 dollars. Disposal of oil and filter, free at local car stores like Autozone. I've rarely replaced the copper oil drain plug gasket. Haven't had any leaks yet. I can't see paying someone else for such a simple job. Gives me a chance to crawl under and look around. RonB
10 for about $6. Amazon.com: 10 Copper Oil Drain Plug Gaskets Ford and Nissan: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Drain-Plug-Gaskets-Nissan/dp/B0046QZBIA)
The Ford truck center in my area has a $200 per hour labor charge; the local RV service centers come close to this, so, like Ron and many others do, I go to Walmart for 6 quarts of Motorcraft 5W20 and a Motorcraft FL820S oil filter for about $35 and do the job myself. I work a lot cheaper! I do have curbside oil pick up, but, if I didn't, I'd take the jugs (and drained, bagged used filter) to a local auto store for recycling.
I certainly understand that many prefer to have someone else change the oil, and most of the time, the change is probably done right, but, even this simple job can be screwed up; I had two experiences (not on the LD) with a "mechanic" forgetting to replace the filler cap (want to guess how difficult it is to clean sprayed oil off the engine and hood interior? Let alone the potential engine damage if the mistake is not caught almost immediately?) and one of cross-threading the oil filter.
I would not use a Walmart or a Camping World or a Jiffy Lube or any other "oil change" outfit, but, if this is one's choice to do so, I would at least make very sure that the place was using the appropriate oil and filter and check for post-change leaks and fill level.
YMMV, as always!
Just to add a footnote to Joan’s reply. An oil change is suppose to be the time to inspect the condition of many areas called a multi-point inspection. The zerks need grease for example. Most oil change places wouldn’t do that. Check all fluid levels, battery terminals, look for leaks, etc. I torque the oil drain plug. How many places just hand tighten the plug?
So if someone needed just an oil change without a multi-point inspection then a quick oil shop can work. (For example on a long road trip). I’d be watching and then checking what I could. Hope this helps.
Last oil change was done at a recommended local shop in Diamond Springs CA. He slid under the rig, drained the oil, then refilled. All satisfactory $107, so $70 labor. He is selling his shop to his son and retiring to Idaho. Previous change at Ford dealership in Roseville CA (Folsom is closer but truck shop stopped servicing RVs). Up on the rack, oil change, multipoint inspection - $107. I prefer to pay someone who knows what they are looking at/for to eyeball the underside periodically. Certainly there is variability in employee competence anywhere and mistake do happen.
I stopped using Jiffy-Lube in 1992 when they stripped the threads on the oil pan plug at 14K. They finally paid to replace the oil pan. I threatened to take them to small claims court, but had difficulty contacting the asst. manager.
Every time I called, he was out - at small claims court.
There are a few, select individuals I would recommend they use that company.
As Joan says, YMMV
Joel
"He slid under the rig, drained the oil, then refilled. All satisfactory $107, so $70 labor."
And what about the torque converter? Shouldn't it also be drained and refilled at the same time? ::)
And what about the torque converter? Shouldn't it also be drained and refilled at the same time? ::)
The torque converter's oil is changed only during a full transmission flush.
The majority of torque converters have not had a drain plug for many years.
Larry.
"The majority of torque converters have not had a drain plug for many years."
Thanks for that Larry...
I was thinking back to my '77 International Scout which I drove for 24 years. I drained and changed that one more than once! ;)
The LD is high enough off the ground to make oil changes vey simple. Do it yourself. The job gets done right, you know what oil is actually put in it, you put on the proper oil filter, and you can then use money saved to spend on yourself! Frank
We take our MB to a Ford Truck shop, about 30 miles away for most service. We have used Wally once in Las Vegas and the work was satisfactory, and used Jiffy Lube once in Fairbanks with the same result.
Our last service was August 15 at the Ford Truck shop and the costs were as follows: Oil filter 5.20, 6 qts. of oil 18.18, Labor 20.00, old oil disposal 4.00 plus tax which totals at 50.22. For the 20.00 labor charge, I will let someone else climb around under the rig, and also perform a multi-point inspection.
As others have noted, there are multiple ways to accomplish this task.